Ventus ballast leak

[wladkummer76]

Hi all,

Id like to ask for help here. My Ventus a SN143 right wing ballast is
leaking around the ballast valve actuator rod. I've contacted S&H but
no response so far. I do not know if a O-ring seal would fit in the
small recess.

Have anyone in this group experienced this problem?

Thanks to everyone

[[email protected]]

On Oct 9, 7:21*am, wladkummer76 > wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Id like to ask for help here. My Ventus a SN143 right wing ballast is
> leaking around the ballast valve actuator rod. I've contacted S&H but
> no response so far. I do not know if a O-ring seal would fit in the
> small recess.
>
> Have anyone in this group experienced this problem?
>
> Thanks to everyone

This is consistent with failure of the bellows that seals this area.
M&H will have part and installation information.
UH

[CindyB[_2_]]

On Oct 9, 5:44*am, wrote:
> On Oct 9, 7:21*am, wladkummer76 > wrote:

>
> This is consistent with failure of the bellows that seals this area.
> M&H will have part and installation information.
> UH

We had a customer ask us to look into his Ventus leak in the
springtime. The only access for replacing a bellows is to cut a
hole in the wing, which we did.

Turns out the bellows was fine.
The silly part is the 'never-anticipated-for maintenance' design.
The bellows is installed on a brass actuator rod, which has to
be disassembled from the inner mount (tip end) with a roll-pin
style keeper outboard of the suspension post.
The bellows is slipped over some looks-like-typical wing tape
lapped around the brass pushrod to size it out and provide a
compression seat for the hose clamp which tightens and fixes
the bellows rootend in position. Water can leak
under/through the tape on the rod. Water could leak
through a perforated bellows.

Water can also leak through the twenty year old, now rusted,
iron sleeve that is set in the root rib, which had become
transparent when the brass rod was removed.
Can you imagine tapping out the remaining rusty material
and machining an inner sleeve of brass material to seat/adhere
in the root rib? We feel our leakage was through that iron
sleeve, not from the bellows which we pressure checked as sound.

Then after dump reassembly, you have a nice 12 inch or
so hole to patch in your (carbon) skin, and refinish to match.
So a leaky "bellows" is not a small item of consideration
in either cost or time.

Best wishes,

Cindy B
www.caracole-soaring.com

[Bob]

On Oct 9, 4:21*am, wladkummer76 > wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Id like to ask for help here. My Ventus a SN143 right wing ballast is
> leaking around the ballast valve actuator rod. I've contacted S&H but
> no response so far. I do not know if a O-ring seal would fit in the
> small recess.
>
> Have anyone in this group experienced this problem?
>
> Thanks to everyone

A VERY affordable fix is to simply get some Chapstick and slather /
smear it with your finger around where the ballast actuator rod comes
out of the wing. A 1/16" layer does nicely. This can be easily done
at the same time you are greasing the wing assembly rods. Re-apply a
layer of Chapstick each time you assemble on days you plan to fly with
water. A little Chapstick also works very nicely to stop any drips
emminating from the drain valve in the undersurface of the wing.

19

[Richard[_9_]]

On Oct 9, 4:52*pm, Bob > wrote:
> On Oct 9, 4:21*am, wladkummer76 > wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
>
> > Id like to ask for help here. My Ventus a SN143 right wing ballast is
> > leaking around the ballast valve actuator rod. I've contacted S&H but
> > no response so far. I do not know if a O-ring seal would fit in the
> > small recess.
>
> > Have anyone in this group experienced this problem?
>
> > Thanks to everyone
>
> A VERY affordable fix is to simply get some Chapstick and slather /
> smear it with your finger around where the ballast actuator rod comes
> out of the wing. *A 1/16" layer does nicely. *This can be easily done
> at the same time you are greasing the wing assembly rods. *Re-apply a
> layer of Chapstick each time you assemble on days you plan to fly with
> water. *A little Chapstick also works very nicely to stop any drips
> emminating from the drain valve in the undersurface of the wing.
>
> 19

Bee 's wax from the seals used to install toilets also works and is a
little more substanial than chapstick. Get a Ace hardware or
HomeDepot.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[weersch[_2_]]

Same problem on my V2C SN30
I only started to fly with water this season.
I noticed water dripping out of the fuselage draining hole just in
front of the wheel, after landing.

The repair as described by Cindy sounds horrible.
Need to try the bee wax next season.

Hans Van Weersch

[wladkummer76]

On Oct 10, 3:13*am, weersch > wrote:
> Same problem on my V2C SN30
> I only started to fly with water this season.
> I noticed water dripping out of the fuselage draining hole just in
> front of the wheel, after landing.
>
> The repair as described by Cindy sounds horrible.
> Need to try the bee wax next season.
>
> Hans Van Weersch

Thanks all for the responses. I use the chapstick hint for sealing the
dump valve and I'll try to use it for sealing the actuator rod leak.

To Cindy, since I'm in Brazil I unfortunately cannot bring the plane
for fixing at Caracole. Do you have any pictures on the fix you have
done? The hole was cut on the underside of the wing, right? Do you
know the position of the center?

[CindyB[_2_]]

> To Cindy, since I'm in Brazil I unfortunately cannot bring the plane
> for fixing at Caracole. Do you have any pictures on the fix you have
> done? The hole was cut on the underside of the wing, right? Do you
> know the position of the center?

Okay - I admit to weak Google skills.

Send an email address to me directly and we will see what we can send.
I'm at info at caracole-soaring.com
Yes, we took a few photos mid-process.
No - they didn't tell us where to center the hole.
And the hole for access was top side.

Thanks for admitting you were geographically awkwardly
located to use our professional services...... when a shop goes
through a learning curve like that, they don't expect to hand
off the info willy-nilly. Generic girly descriptions however, can be
freely shared for general education on the aging fleet at large.

smile,

Cindy B
www.caracole-soaring.com

[Cliff Hilty[_4_]]

Yes to all of the fixes, but eventually (if you fly alot with water) you
will need to have it fixed. Mine, ser # 214, was flown for 3 years with a
rubber glove fix and the beeswax idea but, each time the rod is actuated,
it would leak again until eventually it rusted the steel rods (and Cindy
both of my rods were steel) to the point that it wouldn't turn any more.
My Mechanic, replaced them both with stainless steel and new bellows.
Which with any luck should last without further repairs until I sell it or
my estate gets it :) Hopefully the latter, much later :)

Interesting note was that after that repair, a few years, I noticed
leakage in the leading edge. That turned into a refinish and when the old
finish was taken off, there were multiple pin holes in the top of only one
wing through the fiberglass and the water was migrating under the
deteriorating gelcoat. That was repaired by vacuming thinned out epoxy
resin into the pin holes and then tested before refinishing. Otherwise my
Ventus has produced many good flights and memories :)

Another note to the V2C that said he had a problem with rod leakage, I
could be mistaken, but I thought they had changed to an "O-Ring" seal as
with the nimbus 3 and later models with screw-in face plate that goes over
the rod. Don't remember exactly though.

Good Luck, after all they ARE airplanes!


At 22:28 13 October 2010, CindyB wrote:
>
>> To Cindy, since I'm in Brazil I unfortunately cannot bring the plane
>> for fixing at Caracole. Do you have any pictures on the fix you have
>> done? The hole was cut on the underside of the wing, right? Do you
>> know the position of the center?
>
>Okay - I admit to weak Google skills.
>
>Send an email address to me directly and we will see what we can send.
> I'm at info at caracole-soaring.com
>Yes, we took a few photos mid-process.
>No - they didn't tell us where to center the hole.
>And the hole for access was top side.
>
>Thanks for admitting you were geographically awkwardly
>located to use our professional services...... when a shop goes
>through a learning curve like that, they don't expect to hand
>off the info willy-nilly. Generic girly descriptions however, can be
>freely shared for general education on the aging fleet at large.
>
>smile,
>
>Cindy B
>www.caracole-soaring.com
>

[Bill Bullimore[_2_]]

In UK on my Mosquito Bw endless wing tank leaks were cured
with swimming pool paint and a wonderful smart fluid called
Fernox F4, which is used for sealing leaks in central heating
systems.

As for sealing dump valve rubbers, we swear by Vaseline, which
has alternative use for sexual activity (smear it on the door
handle - it stop the kids getting into the bedroom)

bw BB


At 20:37 14 October 2010, Cliff Hilty wrote:
>Yes to all of the fixes, but eventually (if you fly alot with water)
you
>will need to have it fixed. Mine, ser # 214, was flown for 3
years with a
>rubber glove fix and the beeswax idea but, each time the rod
is actuated,
>it would leak again until eventually it rusted the steel rods (and
Cindy
>both of my rods were steel) to the point that it wouldn't turn
any more.
>My Mechanic, replaced them both with stainless steel and new
bellows.
>Which with any luck should last without further repairs until I
sell it or
>my estate gets it :) Hopefully the latter, much later :)
>
>Interesting note was that after that repair, a few years, I
noticed
>leakage in the leading edge. That turned into a refinish and
when the old
>finish was taken off, there were multiple pin holes in the top of
only one
>wing through the fiberglass and the water was migrating under
the
>deteriorating gelcoat. That was repaired by vacuming thinned
out epoxy
>resin into the pin holes and then tested before refinishing.
Otherwise my
>Ventus has produced many good flights and memories :)
>
>Another note to the V2C that said he had a problem with rod
leakage, I
>could be mistaken, but I thought they had changed to an "O-
Ring" seal as
>with the nimbus 3 and later models with screw-in face plate
that goes over
>the rod. Don't remember exactly though.
>
>Good Luck, after all they ARE airplanes!
>
>
>At 22:28 13 October 2010, CindyB wrote:
>>
>>> To Cindy, since I'm in Brazil I unfortunately cannot bring
the plane
>>> for fixing at Caracole. Do you have any pictures on the fix
you have
>>> done? The hole was cut on the underside of the wing, right?
Do you
>>> know the position of the center?
>>
>>Okay - I admit to weak Google skills.
>>
>>Send an email address to me directly and we will see what
we can send.
>> I'm at info at caracole-soaring.com
>>Yes, we took a few photos mid-process.
>>No - they didn't tell us where to center the hole.
>>And the hole for access was top side.
>>
>>Thanks for admitting you were geographically awkwardly
>>located to use our professional services...... when a shop
goes
>>through a learning curve like that, they don't expect to hand
>>off the info willy-nilly. Generic girly descriptions however,
can be
>>freely shared for general education on the aging fleet at
large.
>>
>>smile,
>>
>>Cindy B
>>www.caracole-soaring.com
>>
>
>

[wladkummer76]

Now I have a plan of action: Will use the chapstick method and live
with the leak till the next rainy season when aside to changing the
ailerons and flap seals, I'll fix the ballast leak using the brute
force method that Cindy told us.

Since we are here at this discussion about the Ventus I'd like to post
another doubt for which I also did not get any reply from S&H. Is
there any special hint to remove the ailerons / flaps?

Just a note:
I must confess I'm disappointed with S&H because I received no reply
to my emails after querying them this problem. When I used to have and
STD Jantar the SZD people were much more friendly.

Thank you guys

[Mr.T]

On Saturday, October 9, 2010 at 1:21:53 PM UTC+2, wladkummer76 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Id like to ask for help here. My Ventus a SN143 right wing ballast is
> leaking around the ballast valve actuator rod. I've contacted S&H but
> no response so far. I do not know if a O-ring seal would fit in the
> small recess.
>
> Have anyone in this group experienced this problem?
>
> Thanks to everyone

Hi,

Sorry about causing a reawakening of this old thread.

But it so happens, that our plane a Ventus B/16.6 has developed "sort of" the same problem. The bolt to the water ballast valve have simply broken inside the wing.

Anyone with pictures or information on how to do the repair? - S.H. Just told me to cut a hole in the top side of the wing, but it sure would be nice with some experience. I can't go to Cindy's place, as I live in Europe.

Thanks Mr.T

[Dan Marotta]

I saw similar in a Mini Nimbus after the wings were cut open.Â* All of
the hardware was made of mild steel which, over the years simply rusted
away!Â* Very shoddy design, if you ask me.Â* The repairs were accomplished
with brass hardware and the wings closed up.

There should be plenty of shops in Europe that can handle this kind of
repair.

Good Luck!

On 9/5/2018 12:52 PM, Mr.T wrote:
> On Saturday, October 9, 2010 at 1:21:53 PM UTC+2, wladkummer76 wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Id like to ask for help here. My Ventus a SN143 right wing ballast is
>> leaking around the ballast valve actuator rod. I've contacted S&H but
>> no response so far. I do not know if a O-ring seal would fit in the
>> small recess.
>>
>> Have anyone in this group experienced this problem?
>>
>> Thanks to everyone
> Hi,
>
> Sorry about causing a reawakening of this old thread.
>
> But it so happens, that our plane a Ventus B/16.6 has developed "sort of" the same problem. The bolt to the water ballast valve have simply broken inside the wing.
>
> Anyone with pictures or information on how to do the repair? - S.H. Just told me to cut a hole in the top side of the wing, but it sure would be nice with some experience. I can't go to Cindy's place, as I live in Europe.
>
> Thanks Mr.T

--
Dan, 5J

[MrT]

On Saturday, October 9, 2010 at 1:21:53 PM UTC+2, wladkummer76 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Id like to ask for help here. My Ventus a SN143 right wing ballast is
> leaking around the ballast valve actuator rod. I've contacted S&H but
> no response so far. I do not know if a O-ring seal would fit in the
> small recess.
>
> Have anyone in this group experienced this problem?
>
> Thanks to everyone

Hi,

I want to do the repair myself as I'm qualified - that way I can save some $ and gain some experience.

But it would nevertheless be good with some input from people who have already done similar repairs.

SH told me to follow the Maintenance manual, but in the Maintenance manual (April 1983) they only describe glass fibre repairs. For Carbon parts they say, that one should ask for instruction from the manufacture :-S

Thanks MrT

[Mike C]

On Saturday, September 8, 2018 at 10:01:43 AM UTC-6, MrT wrote:
> On Saturday, October 9, 2010 at 1:21:53 PM UTC+2, wladkummer76 wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Id like to ask for help here. My Ventus a SN143 right wing ballast is
> > leaking around the ballast valve actuator rod. I've contacted S&H but
> > no response so far. I do not know if a O-ring seal would fit in the
> > small recess.
> >
> > Have anyone in this group experienced this problem?
> >
> > Thanks to everyone
>
> Hi,
>
> I want to do the repair myself as I'm qualified - that way I can save some $ and gain some experience.
>
> But it would nevertheless be good with some input from people who have already done similar repairs.
>
> SH told me to follow the Maintenance manual, but in the Maintenance manual (April 1983) they only describe glass fibre repairs. For Carbon parts they say, that one should ask for instruction from the manufacture :-S
>
> Thanks MrT

I did this on a Mini Nimbus that had carbon skins, under the watchful eye of my A&P. There are some photos of the procedure that may be helpful on the Mini Nimbus Yahoo Group. You will have to join the group for access though.



Mike

[MrT]

On Saturday, October 9, 2010 at 1:21:53 PM UTC+2, wladkummer76 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Id like to ask for help here. My Ventus a SN143 right wing ballast is
> leaking around the ballast valve actuator rod. I've contacted S&H but
> no response so far. I do not know if a O-ring seal would fit in the
> small recess.
>
> Have anyone in this group experienced this problem?
>
> Thanks to everyone

Thanks Mike :-)

I've joined the group, but can't seem to find the pictures. What should I search for?

BR, MrT

[Mike C]

On Sunday, September 9, 2018 at 2:24:29 AM UTC-6, MrT wrote:
> On Saturday, October 9, 2010 at 1:21:53 PM UTC+2, wladkummer76 wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Id like to ask for help here. My Ventus a SN143 right wing ballast is
> > leaking around the ballast valve actuator rod. I've contacted S&H but
> > no response so far. I do not know if a O-ring seal would fit in the
> > small recess.
> >
> > Have anyone in this group experienced this problem?
> >
> > Thanks to everyone
>
> Thanks Mike :-)
>
> I've joined the group, but can't seem to find the pictures. What should I search for?
>
> BR, MrT

I am no longer a member, but look for the photo album "N8FZ".

Mike

[MrT]

On Saturday, October 9, 2010 at 1:21:53 PM UTC+2, wladkummer76 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Id like to ask for help here. My Ventus a SN143 right wing ballast is
> leaking around the ballast valve actuator rod. I've contacted S&H but
> no response so far. I do not know if a O-ring seal would fit in the
> small recess.
>
> Have anyone in this group experienced this problem?
>
> Thanks to everyone

Hi Mike, was that an album in Yahoo photos? cause they were discontinued in 2007. Anyway I can't seem to find the album.

BR, MrT

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

On Thursday, September 13, 2018 at 3:23:58 PM UTC-4, MrT wrote:
> On Saturday, October 9, 2010 at 1:21:53 PM UTC+2, wladkummer76 wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Id like to ask for help here. My Ventus a SN143 right wing ballast is
> > leaking around the ballast valve actuator rod. I've contacted S&H but
> > no response so far. I do not know if a O-ring seal would fit in the
> > small recess.
> >
> > Have anyone in this group experienced this problem?
> >
> > Thanks to everyone
>
> Hi Mike, was that an album in Yahoo photos? cause they were discontinued in 2007. Anyway I can't seem to find the album.
>
> BR, MrT

It is likely in the mini-nimbus yahoo group. In there, at the top of the page when you sign in, are links to Messages(Conversations), Photos, Files, About the Group, etc. Click on "Photos" and look for the album he suggested.

[MrT]

On Saturday, October 9, 2010 at 1:21:53 PM UTC+2, wladkummer76 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Id like to ask for help here. My Ventus a SN143 right wing ballast is
> leaking around the ballast valve actuator rod. I've contacted S&H but
> no response so far. I do not know if a O-ring seal would fit in the
> small recess.
>
> Have anyone in this group experienced this problem?
>
> Thanks to everyone


Thanks Dan and Mike :-)

Found it in the album 'Water ballast repair' from 2012 (Not the N8FZ folder) - Great pictures :-) now i got something to look at.

Thanks again!! - BR MrT from Denmark

[Jay Campbell]

On Saturday, October 9, 2010 at 7:21:53 AM UTC-4, wladkummer76 wrote:
> Hi all,
> Id like to ask for help here. My Ventus a SN143 right wing ballast is
> leaking around the ballast valve actuator rod. I've contacted S&H but
> no response so far. I do not know if a O-ring seal would fit in the
> small recess.
> Have anyone in this group experienced this problem?
> Thanks to everyone
I had my first actuator leak at the wing root of my Discus CS just last week. I've already designed, built, and tested a fix that can be made external of the wing. Very simple, but very effective. If you would like a description and a picture, just contact me. If you have a lathe, you can make it yourself; if not, any local machine shop can do the job with a few parts from McMaster Carr.