what's in that air?

[Eastward Bound]

Everytime I'm near a BIG and busy airport I start to feel a little
weak and lightheaded. Almost as if I'm going to faint but I don't.

I never had a problem with emises or nausea and haven't yet vomited
when I thought of sick thoughts and I never get motion/ sea sickness.

I think to myself that this only happens in cities up against a major
airport like LAX and O'Hare. Could it be the Carbon Monoxide?

I have my doubts that it's carbon monoxide but I could be wrong. If
it's Carbon Monoxide then why don't I get the same sensation when in a
garage with a car idling with the door open for a vent? Why don't I
get the same sensation when I'm at the dirty Harbor where all the BIG
diesels in the ships, trucks and trains are producing Carbon Monoxide
(Co2 is it?)

My suspicions is it's got to be something in the air obviously, it's
either a gas or some kind of chemical.

If my suspicions are correct, even if I've been NKA all my life what I
and many others are sensitive to are the unburned gases and chemicals
that are spewed into the air from unburned aviation fuel and turbine
engines.

It must be because those engines turn so fast and tons of air are
passed through them while they are taking off and landing. Also there
is no such thing as a combustion engine that is 100% efficient.
Granted all our engines have advanced over the past 10 years but they
are still not 100% efficient and they don't burn 100% of the fuel that
are passed through them it's nearly imposible by todays technology.

This is what my suspicions are on what I and others are sensitive to.
There are other people who are unfazed by whatever is in the air by
these major airports.

[Tim Bengtson]

Eastward Bound wrote:

> This is what my suspicions are on what I and others are sensitive to.
> There are other people who are unfazed by whatever is in the air by
> these major airports.

Just on the offhand chance that you're not trolling, maybe a
psychiatrist could help.

Tim

[Aardvarks]

Eastward Bound wrote:
> Everytime I'm near a BIG and busy airport I start to feel a little
> weak and lightheaded. Almost as if I'm going to faint but I don't.
>


Go to
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/
search for "Contrails"
You may get some answers or end up with more questions.

Or be able to start a new topic.

FWIW

Wearin my foil hat.....
WW

[Ben Jackson]

In article >,
Eastward Bound > wrote:
>I have my doubts that it's carbon monoxide but I could be wrong.

CO poisoning doesn't just "go away", the molecules bind to hemiglobin
more strongly than O2 and the effects linger.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Eastward Bound]

"James M. Knox" > wrote in message >...
> (Eastward Bound) wrote in
> om:
>
> > Everytime I'm near a BIG and busy airport I start to feel a little
> > weak and lightheaded. Almost as if I'm going to faint but I don't.
> > I never had a problem with emises or nausea and haven't yet vomited
> > when I thought of sick thoughts and I never get motion/ sea sickness.
> > I think to myself that this only happens in cities up against a major
> > airport like LAX and O'Hare. Could it be the Carbon Monoxide?
>
> First, I am tempted to say that most of us ont his list get weak and
> lightheaded when near aircraft that we will never be able to afford. <G>
>
> I think you can fully rule out CO -- just doesn't work that way.
> Everyone would be suffering. Further, CO levels aren't particularly
> high near even the biggest airports - they are **MUCH** worse at a
> congested intersection in a big city on a calm (non-windy) day.
> Unfortunately, so are most other petro-related combustion byproducts.
> That rules out most things.
>
> What, if anything, does that leave? Not much that I can think of.
> Fueling of the big aircraft is done through sealed hoses - releasing a
> lot less fumes than you get when filling up your family car. Further,
> Jet-A doesn't evaporate anywhere near as quickly as auto gasoline.
>
> Perhaps you are having a reaction to the fertilizers that some of them
> may use on the grass? Or to the grass itself.
>
> If you are REAL close you CAN sometimes get a whiff of kerosene as one
> takes off. This is very brief, but you could be hyper-sensitive. Easy
> enough to test - go to a service station and get a couple of cents worth
> of diesel. Whiff it (in very light amounts - we KNOW you can get sick
> if you sniff enough of it). [This is NOT a recommended practice.] If
> you do react to it, then stay away from more and more of the newer
> automobiles, and never ever move to Europe.
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> James M. Knox
> TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
> 1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
> Austin, Tx 78721
> -----------------------------------------------


Wow; thanks for being so informative...


It's got to be something in the air. As soon as I open the window of
my car and take in the first breath I get the above mentioned
symptoms.

This doesn't happen when I'm on the Freeway for whatever reason, only
when I'm in or around the surrounding areas near the airport.

I don't get the symptoms when I'm inside the airport terminal or
onboard an airplane.

My Aunt who lives close by to LAX said that the tile roof used to be
red or bright orange when it was new. Because of the bad air from all
the high traffic or aircraft the roof is now green. It must have been
some kind of chemical reaction.

Once I had to spend two nights nearby LAX at a Hotel. I felt the
symptoms the whole time I was there and every time I went outside it
got worse. I would think that I got used to the lightheadedness but
then it would come back all over again as soon as I stepped outside
onto the balcony and I would watch all of those Jumbo Jets fly over my
head and over the Hotel. We were situated near a flight path.

Aviation fuel isn't the same kind of fuel as gasoline. There must be
some kind of chemical in the air that is released when aviation fuel
is burned by the jet engines.


The family used to own a VW Rabbit Diesel pick up truck. I remember
refueling that truck and getting the diesel on my hands from the pump
and I know the distinct smell of it. I know that I'm not allergic to
it. So that rules out Diesel.

Don't parks and stadiums use the aforementioned chemicals you stated
was used in Airports? If it's the same then you can rule that out
since I highly doubt it having gone to many parks before along with
places with treated lawns. Washington DC has a lot of that and I
never got the symptoms.

Whatever it is I should find out what is causing this. Who knows,
maybe I might need to be rushed to the Emergency Room once I get to
witness a space shuttle taking off up close and personal for the first
time. Maybe whatever is in that Aviation fuel is in Jet fuel used for
the space shuttle.




Hemoglobin: The iron-containing respiratory pigment in red blood
cells of vertebrates, consisting of about 6 percent heme and 94
percent globin.

short for hematinoglobulin

[Eastward Bound]

"James M. Knox" > wrote in message >...
> (Eastward Bound) wrote in
> om:
>
> > My Aunt who lives close by to LAX said that the tile roof used to be
> > red or bright orange when it was new. Because of the bad air from all
> > the high traffic or aircraft the roof is now green. It must have been
> > some kind of chemical reaction.
>
> If the tiles are clay, it's probably mold -- a very common allergen and
> caused primarily by the humidity. BTW, there are LOTS of things in the
> air around LAX - especially when the wind is from the south (Torrance).
> Only a few of them are actual things that SHOULD be in the air. Drive
> south a few miles and look at all the street signs - all rusting away.
> [Torrance is basically the petro-chemical refinery district.]

It sure is. Not too long ago they had a nasty fire in the refinery
that put up black smoke that can be seen from miles and miles away.


>
> > Aviation fuel isn't the same kind of fuel as gasoline. There must be
> > some kind of chemical in the air that is released when aviation fuel
> > is burned by the jet engines.
>
> Correct. AVGAS (which is what the small piston-powered general aviation
> aircraft use) is very similar to auto gasoline. In fact, a number of
> these small aircraft actually USE auto gasoline.
>
> The Jet engines use Jet-A, which is basically kerosene. It's very
> similar (although not identical) to diesel fuel used in diesel engine
> cars. I would expecct any reaction to one to also equate to a reaction
> to the other, but ...
>
> You can get kerosene from most any hardware and/or camping store. You
> might try to see if you react to it.

I'm OK with Kerosene. We used to keep Kerosene lamps in the garage
just in case of a black out. I have messed with Kerosene lamps before
with no reaction at all to the smell of the Kerosene.



>
> > Don't parks and stadiums use the aforementioned chemicals you stated
> > was used in Airports? If it's the same then you can rule that out
> > since I highly doubt it having gone to many parks before along with
> > places with treated lawns.
>
> There are lots of different lawn chemicals, and commercial places
> (stadiums, airports, etc.) often use things that aren't available to the
> average homeowner. However, with all the EPA regulations in place, I
> would expect airports to be much BETTER (less harmful and less of it)
> than things like stadiums and golf courses.
>
> In either event, I believe you said you have this reaction at ALL the
> major airports you visit. Unlikely to be fertilizers or pesticides.


Who knows, maybe the air quality in and around LAX is a lot dirtier
then they would like to admit. Maybe money is involved, who knows...



>
> > Whatever it is I should find out what is causing this. Who knows,
> > maybe I might need to be rushed to the Emergency Room once I get to
> > witness a space shuttle taking off up close and personal for the first
> > time. Maybe whatever is in that Aviation fuel is in Jet fuel used for
> > the space shuttle.
>
> Completely different stuff... solid propellants, plus hydrogen and
> oxygen (makes water when burned). Again, I'd worry more about the
> fertilizers on the lawn where you are standing.
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> James M. Knox
> TriSoft ph 512-385-0316
> 1109-A Shady Lane fax 512-366-4331
> Austin, Tx 78721
> -----------------------------------------------

[Eastward Bound]

I think I might be onto something.

What's making me sick isn't what's in the air so much as what vibrates
it.

YES I'm suggesting that the supersonic resonance/sound waves from the
jet engines spinning so fast (it's outer propeller edges going
supersonic speed) effects people, some people.

What I think I am getting is a mild case of "malaise". Not to confuse
with "Verdigo".


malaise: 1. A vague feeling of bodily discomfort. 2. A general
sense of depression or unease.


I'm telling you, whatever is affecting me near the major airports
starts as sudden as it stops/goes away. Having the problem being
sound related makes perfect sense. It's described as a hundred
thousand little sonic booms per minute. It must be effecting my inner
ear.

The whole effect on my body is vague and temporary.

This would explain why I'm not effected when I'm inside a building,
inside the airport, or inside an airplane. Passenger Jumbo Jets are
well sound insulated for passenger comfort. If there were no sound
insulation at all, I'll bet that the noise would be so unbearable that
people would just keel over everywhere and throw up.

So how does this information help people like me?

It just all goes to show that some people have no buisness living
anywhere near a flight path or an Airport esp. a major Airport.

I'm not allergic to anything and I never have been. I have always
been NKA as well as NKDA 100%, it's a true blessing...

[David Lesher]

>>Fueling of the big aircraft is done through sealed hoses - releasing a
>>lot less fumes than you get when filling up your family car.

>Not true---think about it----while that fuel is going into the tank, something
>has to come out of the tank. Look into tank vent valves used on large single
>point refueled aircraft. I remember a vent valve failing on a B-58 and saw the
>side of the fuselage that was blown out by the pressure build up. Mac



At service stations, here is what happens. The car fills, and the
coaxial hose catches the car's exiting vapor and pushes it into the
tank that now has 20 gallons less liquid than it did before. If
there's any extra vapor to vent, there's a sort-of open air water
heater on the building roof. It has a pilot light and gets combustion
air drafted in from the below-ground tanks vents. (There are other
schemes but this got you ""free"" hot H2O...)

The tanker arrives. The {say} 8000 gallons of gasoline is drained
into the underground tank. That displaces 8000 gallons of vapor
which is shoved into the now liquid-empty but vapor-full tanker.

The tanker goes back to the marketing terminal and gets refilled.
It passes that 8Kgal of vapor to the terminal. There, there is a
"vapor recovery unit" - a stripped down micro refinery that mixes
the vapor with base stock ("lean oil" I doono why that name), giving
you liquid almost-gasoline. Say you get 1 gal of liquid for every
100 of vapor.

That a-g is then injected in small fractions into #2 Diesel and/or
#2 Heat{ing Oil}. In doing so, it lowers the flash point from oh
120F to 115.

That's how vapor recovery works in the car biz. Aircraft? Well, vice
automotive volumes, and Jet-A; avgas is a penny vs the DoD budget
worth, so skip that. (Even so, Southern Califunny may regulate; I
doono..). As for JetA, I never saw V-R in action when I worked on
such at CLE but maybe it's now at LAX etc. The basics would be the
same. I suspect they would use the recovered vapor in ramp lice,
not aircraft, as its characteristics will vary somewhat...
--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[Eastward Bound]

(Eastward Bound) wrote in message >...
> I think I might be onto something.
>
> What's making me sick isn't what's in the air so much as what vibrates
> it.
>
> YES I'm suggesting that the supersonic resonance/sound waves from the
> jet engines spinning so fast (it's outer propeller edges going
> supersonic speed) effects people, some people.
>
> What I think I am getting is a mild case of "malaise". Not to confuse
> with "Verdigo".
>
>
> malaise: 1. A vague feeling of bodily discomfort. 2. A general
> sense of depression or unease.
>
>
> I'm telling you, whatever is affecting me near the major airports
> starts as sudden as it stops/goes away. Having the problem being
> sound related makes perfect sense. It's described as a hundred
> thousand little sonic booms per minute. It must be effecting my inner
> ear.
>
> The whole effect on my body is vague and temporary.
>
> This would explain why I'm not effected when I'm inside a building,
> inside the airport, or inside an airplane. Passenger Jumbo Jets are
> well sound insulated for passenger comfort. If there were no sound
> insulation at all, I'll bet that the noise would be so unbearable that
> people would just keel over everywhere and throw up.
>
> So how does this information help people like me?
>
> It just all goes to show that some people have no buisness living
> anywhere near a flight path or an Airport esp. a major Airport.
>
> I'm not allergic to anything and I never have been. I have always
> been NKA as well as NKDA 100%, it's a true blessing...


No, I don't think it's the sound waves anymore.

It's got to be something in the air that happens only at night. It
could be toxins or it could very well be pockets of high
concentrations of carbon dioxide.

At night there is little or no wind breeze because the sun is needed
for turbulence. At night there are far more chances of being caught
in a pocket of air that has high concentrations of jet engine exhaust
i.e. too much carbon monoxide.

[Lou Ramsay]

Mackfly wrote:
>
> >From: "James M. Knox"
>
> >Fueling of the big aircraft is done through sealed hoses - releasing a
> >lot less fumes than you get when filling up your family car.
>
> Not true---think about it----while that fuel is going into the tank, something
> has to come out of the tank. Look into tank vent valves used on large single
> point refueled aircraft. I remember a vent valve failing on a B-58 and saw the
> side of the fuselage that was blown out by the pressure build up. Mac

Also, prior to June 1970 (when I retired from the U.S.
Air Force) there was a picture on the cover of one of
the AF Magazines showing a C-130 (Herc) at Edwards
AFB, California with one wing in the usual horizontal
position, but the other "broke" between the two
engines. That wing tip was resting on the ground.
Cause? Some work had been done on the fuel vent
system and the vents on the side of the "broken" wing
were left plugged or shut for one reason or other.
Then they single point refueled the plane. When
sufficient pressure built up, the wing failed.


Lou.