First fly in 1890 by Clement ADER (France)

[Platon67]

Hello,
Just read here:
http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/28339

This is not very good to deform the history...

Bests regards

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Platon67" > wrote in message
...
>
> Just read here:
> http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/28339
>
> This is not very good to deform the history...
>

Do you believe history is being deformed? In what way?

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Platon67" > wrote in message
...
>
> Commemorating the 100th Anniversary of Flight (1903-2003)
>

Are you saying that the Wrights did not achieve powered, sustained,
controlled
heavier-than-air flight in 1903, or are you saying that someone else
achieved it before them?

[Platon67]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > a =E9crit dans le =
message de news: et...
>=20
> "Platon67" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Commemorating the 100th Anniversary of Flight (1903-2003)
> >
>=20
> Are you saying that the Wrights did not achieve powered, sustained,
> controlled
> heavier-than-air flight in 1903, or are you saying that someone else
> achieved it before them?

The flight of the Wrights was not the first flight of an airplane by =
using his motor.=20
It was the first "controlled" flight.=20

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Platon67" > wrote in message
...
>
> The flight of the Wrights was not the first flight of an airplane by using
his motor.
> It was the first "controlled" flight.
>

Exactly. Ader is duly credited with what he achieved, but without control
flight is not particularly useful.

[Steve]

Platon67 wrote:
> "Steven P. McNicoll" > a écrit dans le message de news: et...
>
>>"Platon67" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>Commemorating the 100th Anniversary of Flight (1903-2003)
>>>
>>
>>Are you saying that the Wrights did not achieve powered, sustained,
>>controlled
>>heavier-than-air flight in 1903, or are you saying that someone else
>>achieved it before them?
>
>
> The flight of the Wrights was not the first flight of an airplane by using his motor.
> It was the first "controlled" flight.

I'm not the greatest supporter of all the hoopla surrounding the Wrights
- they get a lot of credit that should belong to others and there is a
tendency to believe that the Wrights invented the aeroplane, full stop.

That said, the Wrights were unquestionably the first to achieve manned,
powered, sustained, *controlled* flight in a heavier-than-air machine.
That's what intelligent and knowledgeable people claim for the Wrights.
While many of the design components of the Wright Flyer that led to its
success were not inventions of the Wrights (superposed planes, high
aspect ratio, curved wing surfaces, elevators - and so it goes on) -
there Wrights added a couple of critical elements of their own. Most
significant of all was the fact that the Wright Flyer was controllable
in *all three axes* -- that was the real breakthrough (plus the use of
co-ordinated rudder and roll control to effect turns). The Wrights'
adoption of aerodynamic roll control is what we should be celebrating on
the 17th, because it's that that led to the final emergence (after at
least 100 years of development) of the true aeroplane.

The aeroplane took a long time to evolve - and it was an evolution, not
an invention, despite what popular histories and TV science might have
you believe. The first significant breakthrough came with Cayley's
identification of the four forces of flight -- an insight without which
the Wrights would never have got started. Over the next 100 years, there
were many advances -- so much so that the basic form of the aeroplane
was already defined before the Wrights ever became interested, thanks to
the like of Pénaud, Wenham et al. And there were many near-successes.

But the fact is, the aeroplane is not one invention, but numerous
inventions and concepts flying in close formation. It needed all the
pieces to be in place for the final success to come.

The Wrights are often portrayed as great scientists. They weren't. Their
greatest breakthroughs (such as choice of wing camber) came about as the
result of trial & error, not the true scientific method of
hypothesis->experiment->theory. However, they were great engineers, and
it's that skill that gave them the insight to add those final key
elements to the design of the aeroplane.

Of course, people like easy labels, and the Wrights themselves were keen
to adopt the title of 'inventors of the aeroplane' (they were, above
everything, businessmen). In such a simplistic worldview, it's not
surprising that competitors for the crown keep appearing: but of all the
contenders, Ader is one of the most feeble.

The Eole lacked any real control surfaces - no rudder or elevator and
just a horribly complex wing-moving mechanism. It achieved a height in
flight, in 1890, of about eight inches, purely due to power - pure grunt
force that owed nothing to aerodynamics. As for the Avion III, in 1897,
this was blown off its circular track by a gust of wind - a failure made
plain by the official report of the time that put an end to Ader's
funding. However, the report didn't actually appear until 1910, so Ader
took the opportunity, in 1906, to lie about his 'successes' - claiming
that he'd made a second flight in the Eole, twice the distance of the
first (which was 165ft), and that he'd flown 1,000ft in the Avion III.

The claims that Ader was first keep reappearing. The sad truth is, it's
based on lies. He has no more claim than other 'brute force' types like
Maxim.

[vanselow]

On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:13:34 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> wrote:

>
>"Platon67" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Commemorating the 100th Anniversary of Flight (1903-2003)
>>
>
>Are you saying that the Wrights did not achieve powered, sustained,
>controlled
>heavier-than-air flight in 1903, or are you saying that someone else
>achieved it before them?

There are a number of claimants to the first powered heavier-than-air
flight.

Clément Ader, 9 October 1890 to 14 October 1897
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_Ader
www.daviesharbour.com/aiaa/hist/fra.html

Lyman Gilmore, 15 May 15 1902
http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyman_Gilmore

Gustave Whitehead, (Gustav Weisskopf, he was a German) 14 August 1901
www.deepsky.com/~firstflight/Pages/gpage4.html
http://www.weisskopf.de/

Richard Pearse, 31 March 1903
www.destination.co.nz/temuka/pearse.htm
www.billzilla.org/pearce.htm

Karl Jatho, 18 August 1903
www.flyingmachines.org/jatho.html


May be the first kiter:
Otto Lilienthal, 1891
http://www.lilienthal-museum.de/olma/ehome.htm


There were many powered lighter-than-air flights well before the
Wright
Brothers were even born.

Henri Giffard, 24 September 1852
www.skytamer.com/famous/1800.htm


the borther Wrights were just be filmed doing that, and they were
USamercians.

bye
m. vanselow

[Troy Towner]

Damn French, always claiming they did it first.



"vanselow" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:13:34 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Platon67" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >> Commemorating the 100th Anniversary of Flight (1903-2003)
> >>
> >
> >Are you saying that the Wrights did not achieve powered, sustained,
> >controlled
> >heavier-than-air flight in 1903, or are you saying that someone else
> >achieved it before them?
>
> There are a number of claimants to the first powered heavier-than-air
> flight.
>
> Clément Ader, 9 October 1890 to 14 October 1897
> http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_Ader
> www.daviesharbour.com/aiaa/hist/fra.html
>
> Lyman Gilmore, 15 May 15 1902
> http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyman_Gilmore
>
> Gustave Whitehead, (Gustav Weisskopf, he was a German) 14 August 1901
> www.deepsky.com/~firstflight/Pages/gpage4.html
> http://www.weisskopf.de/
>
> Richard Pearse, 31 March 1903
> www.destination.co.nz/temuka/pearse.htm
> www.billzilla.org/pearce.htm
>
> Karl Jatho, 18 August 1903
> www.flyingmachines.org/jatho.html
>
>
> May be the first kiter:
> Otto Lilienthal, 1891
> http://www.lilienthal-museum.de/olma/ehome.htm
>
>
> There were many powered lighter-than-air flights well before the
> Wright
> Brothers were even born.
>
> Henri Giffard, 24 September 1852
> www.skytamer.com/famous/1800.htm
>
>
> the borther Wrights were just be filmed doing that, and they were
> USamercians.
>
> bye
> m. vanselow

[Steve]

vanselow wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:13:34 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>"Platon67" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>Commemorating the 100th Anniversary of Flight (1903-2003)
>>>
>>
>>Are you saying that the Wrights did not achieve powered, sustained,
>>controlled
>>heavier-than-air flight in 1903, or are you saying that someone else
>>achieved it before them?
>
>
> There are a number of claimants to the first powered heavier-than-air
> flight.
>
> Clément Ader, 9 October 1890 to 14 October 1897
> http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_Ader
> www.daviesharbour.com/aiaa/hist/fra.html
>
> Lyman Gilmore, 15 May 15 1902
> http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyman_Gilmore
>
> Gustave Whitehead, (Gustav Weisskopf, he was a German) 14 August 1901
> www.deepsky.com/~firstflight/Pages/gpage4.html
> http://www.weisskopf.de/
>
> Richard Pearse, 31 March 1903
> www.destination.co.nz/temuka/pearse.htm
> www.billzilla.org/pearce.htm
>
> Karl Jatho, 18 August 1903
> www.flyingmachines.org/jatho.html
>
>
> May be the first kiter:
> Otto Lilienthal, 1891
> http://www.lilienthal-museum.de/olma/ehome.htm
>
>
> There were many powered lighter-than-air flights well before the
> Wright
> Brothers were even born.
>
> Henri Giffard, 24 September 1852
> www.skytamer.com/famous/1800.htm
>
>
> the borther Wrights were just be filmed doing that, and they were
> USamercians.

Nonsense. None of these stand up to scrutiny. I've already dealt with
Ader's false claims. Whitehead made an uncontrolled hop and later tried
to boost his claim into something it wasn't. Pearse made some hops - but
in all these cases, not one of the aircraft was capable of lateral
control. As I've already said, the key contribution of the Wrights was
to produce an aircraft capable of aerodynamic control in all three axes.
Theirs was the first (and for several years after, the only) aircraft to
have actual roll control capable of turning the aircraft in the way we
do it now (all others were trying to turn the aircraft using rudder). So
yes, although there were many hops into the air before the Wrights, none
of these were in aircraft capable of full control. Also, most (such as
Ader) achieved these hops through pure brute force - the aircraft were
not capable of sustaining flight because their 'flight' was more
ballistic than aerodynamic. So the claim that the Wrights were the first
to achieve powered, sustained, controlled flight in a heavier-than-air
craft is unassailable.

The sad thing about all this hoopla surrounding the Wrights is that it
is so distorted. The Wrights did not invent the aeroplane - that had
started at least a century before (earlier claims for people like
Leonardo don't stand up). If you want to give the credit for the
intellectual process of inventing the aeroplane, that should go to
George Cayley and the publication of his 'On Aerial Navigation' papers
in 1809/10. Cayley identified the four forces of flight - the defining
and critical concept that underlies the aeroplane. However, the Wrights
took what existed in the way of knowledge, added a little of their own,
then applied their engineering excellence to make it all *work* - and
that's why they get the credit.

The irony is that, just six years after they first flew, the Wright
design of aircraft (which was inherently unstable) was already obsolete,
replaced by a European concept which is the true ancestor of today's
aeroplanes. That European concept, however, would not have worked
without the Wrights' contribution of three-axis aerodynamic control.


Therefore, the claim that the Wrights made the first

[vanselow]

Hi,

I'm not French,
but that is what people know today.
It is much more then a doubt, that the brother Wright did it first.

regards
m. vanselow

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 05:33:17 GMT, "Troy Towner"
> wrote:

>Damn French, always claiming they did it first.
>
>
>
>"vanselow" > wrote in message
...
>> On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:13:34 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Platon67" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >>
>> >> Commemorating the 100th Anniversary of Flight (1903-2003)
>> >>
>> >
>> >Are you saying that the Wrights did not achieve powered, sustained,
>> >controlled
>> >heavier-than-air flight in 1903, or are you saying that someone else
>> >achieved it before them?
>>
>> There are a number of claimants to the first powered heavier-than-air
>> flight.
>>
>> Clément Ader, 9 October 1890 to 14 October 1897
>> http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_Ader
>> www.daviesharbour.com/aiaa/hist/fra.html
>>
>> Lyman Gilmore, 15 May 15 1902
>> http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyman_Gilmore
>>
>> Gustave Whitehead, (Gustav Weisskopf, he was a German) 14 August 1901
>> www.deepsky.com/~firstflight/Pages/gpage4.html
>> http://www.weisskopf.de/
>>
>> Richard Pearse, 31 March 1903
>> www.destination.co.nz/temuka/pearse.htm
>> www.billzilla.org/pearce.htm
>>
>> Karl Jatho, 18 August 1903
>> www.flyingmachines.org/jatho.html
>>
>>
>> May be the first kiter:
>> Otto Lilienthal, 1891
>> http://www.lilienthal-museum.de/olma/ehome.htm
>>
>>
>> There were many powered lighter-than-air flights well before the
>> Wright
>> Brothers were even born.
>>
>> Henri Giffard, 24 September 1852
>> www.skytamer.com/famous/1800.htm
>>
>>
>> the borther Wrights were just be filmed doing that, and they were
>> USamercians.
>>
>> bye
>> m. vanselow
>

[vanselow]

Hi,


I still forgot one:

Jacob Brodbeck, 20 September 1865
http://www.historynet.com/ahi/bljbrodbeck/
(I have copied the text at the end of that posting)
the german museum in Munich has plans of that airship.

bye
m. vanselow


On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 00:31:55 +0100, vanselow >
wrote:

>On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:13:34 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Platon67" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>> Commemorating the 100th Anniversary of Flight (1903-2003)
>>>
>>
>>Are you saying that the Wrights did not achieve powered, sustained,
>>controlled
>>heavier-than-air flight in 1903, or are you saying that someone else
>>achieved it before them?
>
>There are a number of claimants to the first powered heavier-than-air
>flight.
>
>Clément Ader, 9 October 1890 to 14 October 1897
>http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_Ader
>www.daviesharbour.com/aiaa/hist/fra.html
>
>Lyman Gilmore, 15 May 15 1902
>http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyman_Gilmore
>
>Gustave Whitehead, (Gustav Weisskopf, he was a German) 14 August 1901
>www.deepsky.com/~firstflight/Pages/gpage4.html
>http://www.weisskopf.de/
>
>Richard Pearse, 31 March 1903
>www.destination.co.nz/temuka/pearse.htm
>www.billzilla.org/pearce.htm
>
>Karl Jatho, 18 August 1903
>www.flyingmachines.org/jatho.html
>
>
>May be the first kiter:
>Otto Lilienthal, 1891
>http://www.lilienthal-museum.de/olma/ehome.htm
>
>
>There were many powered lighter-than-air flights well before the
>Wright
>Brothers were even born.
>
>Henri Giffard, 24 September 1852
>www.skytamer.com/famous/1800.htm
>
>
>the borther Wrights were just be filmed doing that, and they were
>USamercians.
>
>bye
>m. vanselow




---------------------


Brodbeck was born in the duchy of Württemberg, Germany, on October 13,
1821. After attending a seminary in Esslingen, he taught school in
Württemberg for six years before sailing for Texas with his brother,
George, on August 25, 1846. Always interested in mechanical things,
Jacob attempted to build a self-winding clock while still in Germany.

In March 1847 he moved to Gillespie County, Texas, which already had a
substantial number of German residents, to become the second local
schoolteacher. In 1852 he became a U.S. citizen and married one of his
former students.

For 20 years Brodbeck worked on his most cherished project, an "air
ship." He wrestled with the 19th-century problem of how to get
sufficient power aboard his craft, a power source that would not be
too heavy to lift a plane. The internal combustion engine -- which
later provided a lightweight power plant for the Wrights -- had not
yet been invented, and the steam engine, at that time the most modern
source of power, weighed so much that it seemed unlikely to be able to
lift itself, much less any plane in which it might be housed. So
Brodbeck turned to the most efficient lightweight source he knew, the
spring.

Relying on his knowledge of spring-driven clocks, in 1863 Brodbeck
built a small model with rudder, wings and propeller that actually
flew, powered by coiled springs. That same year he moved to San
Antonio to work as a piano tuner and schoolteacher, and to be closer
to sources of fundraising for his pet project. He showed his model
"flying toy" air ship at various local fairs, where it was greeted
with amazement and enthusiasm. Encouraged by the success of the model,
Brodbeck set about raising funds to build a full-size version capable
of carrying a man. He found a few backers who bought shares in his
project after he promised to repay them within six months of selling
patent rights to his machine. His principal supporter was Dr.
Ferdinand Herff, a San Antonio physician who encouraged the inventor
to continue to work on his air ship and lent him space on his farm to
try out his planes.

According to Jacob Brodbeck "Reached for the Sky" in Texas by
Brodbeck's great-granddaughter, Anita Tatsch, on August 7, 1865,
Brodbeck wrote a fundraising article that described his project and
the parts of his proposed air ship as follows:

Every shareholder will receive a certificate, securing to him a
proportionate interest in proceeds of the enterprise. I will give a
few ideas indicating generally the character of the air ship, and what
it will be able to accomplish. The air ship consists of three main
parts:

1. The lower suspended portion, formed like a ship with a short
prow to cut the air; it serves to hold the aeronaut, and also the
power of producing engine with all the steering apparatus. This
portion is shut up all around to prevent the rapid motion from
affecting the breathing of the man within. In this, as low as
possible, lies the center of gravity of the whole structure, so as to
steady the motion. At the back end of the ship, there is a propeller
screw which will make it possible to navigate in the water, in case by
any accident the aeronaut should have to descend while he is above
water. In this case, the ship can be detached from the flying
apparatus.
2. The upper portion, or flying apparatus, which makes use of
the resistance of the air, consists of wings, partly movable, partly
immovable, presenting the appearance of horizontal sails, but having
functions entirely different from the sails of vessels.
3. The portion producing the forward motion consists of two
screws, which can be revolved with equal or unequal motion, as to
serve the purpose of lateral steering, or of wings of a peculiar
construction. The preference to be given to one or the other depends
on the nature of the motive power.

Another apparatus regulates the ascending motion. The material is
so selected as to combine the greatest strength with the least weight.
When the air ship is in motion, the aeronaut has in each hand a crank,
one to guide the ascending and descending action, the other the
lateral steerage. Immediately in front of him is the compass, while a
barometer with a scale made for the purpose, shows him the approximate
height. Another apparatus, similar to the ball regulator of a steam
engine, shows him the velocity, as well as the distance passed over.
It is self-evident that the speed of the air depends upon motive power
and on the direction of the winds; according to my experiments and
calculations it will be from 30 to 100 miles per hour.

According to Brodbeck's logic, whereas his spring-powered toys came to
earth as the spring unwound, the pilot of the air ship would be in a
position to rewind the spring, thus providing a continuous source of
power for the propeller. But how wrong he was! Brodbeck failed to take
into consideration one small but vital factor -- it is impossible to
rewind a spring while it is unwinding.

Brodbeck constructed his flying machine, but what happened next is
unclear. There are several conflicting versions. One says that
Brodbeck made his first flight in a field three miles east of
Luckenbach, a hamlet in Gillespie County, Texas, on September 20,
1865. The craft reportedly rose 12 feet in the air and traveled about
100 feet before the spring unwound completely and the machine crashed.
Another report says Brodbeck's first flight was in a field belonging
to Dr. Herff near San Antonio. Yet another account says the flight
took place in 1868, not 1865.

The most intriguing version claims that Brodbeck crated his plane and
took it to Washington, D.C., where he flew it off a three-story
building. It was also reported to have had a steam engine, not a
coiled spring. The air ship supposedly hung in the air and maintained
an even flight for a few seconds, then gradually settled to the
ground. The wings folded over and severely crushed Brodbeck, who was
said to have spent several months in a Washington hospital.

All versions of the flight test, however, shared the same sad
conclusion: The air ship fell to the ground in a splintering crash
that totally destroyed the craft.

After this setback, Brodbeck's backers refused to put up money for a
second attempt. Undaunted, Brodbeck went on a fundraising tour of the
United States but failed to find enough new investors. In addition,
some of his blueprints and plans were said to have been stolen.
Another story has it that his disgusted wife threw his papers in a
creek.

Brodbeck finally returned to Texas to live on his ranch near
Luckenbach, where he tinkered with an ice-making machine until his
death in 1910, seven years after the Wright brothers' first flight in
Kitty Hawk, N.C.

Several questions inevitably arise about all of these conflicting
accounts. One concerns the coiled spring used for power. Why did
Brodbeck think he could rewind it as it was unwinding while airborne?
And why didn't Brodbeck bother to patent his air ship? His family
claimed he did take the plans to the U.S. Patent Office and was issued
a patent on June 27, 1865. However, a check of the Department of
Commerce by a researcher some years ago showed that no such patent had
been issued.

No drawings or blueprints of Jacob Brodbeck's craft are known to have
survived, so of course, his aviation achievements remain shrouded in
mystery. Was he or wasn't he the first man to fly in a
heavier-than-air craft?

For more great articles be sure to pick up your copy of Aviation
History.

[vanselow]

On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:51:20 +0100, Steve > wrote:

>vanselow wrote:
>> On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:13:34 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Platon67" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>Commemorating the 100th Anniversary of Flight (1903-2003)
>>>>
>>>
>>>Are you saying that the Wrights did not achieve powered, sustained,
>>>controlled
>>>heavier-than-air flight in 1903, or are you saying that someone else
>>>achieved it before them?
>>
>>
>> There are a number of claimants to the first powered heavier-than-air
>> flight.
>>
>> Clément Ader, 9 October 1890 to 14 October 1897
>> http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_Ader
>> www.daviesharbour.com/aiaa/hist/fra.html
>>
>> Lyman Gilmore, 15 May 15 1902
>> http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyman_Gilmore
>>
>> Gustave Whitehead, (Gustav Weisskopf, he was a German) 14 August 1901
>> www.deepsky.com/~firstflight/Pages/gpage4.html
>> http://www.weisskopf.de/
>>
>> Richard Pearse, 31 March 1903
>> www.destination.co.nz/temuka/pearse.htm
>> www.billzilla.org/pearce.htm
>>
>> Karl Jatho, 18 August 1903
>> www.flyingmachines.org/jatho.html
>>
>>
>> May be the first kiter:
>> Otto Lilienthal, 1891
>> http://www.lilienthal-museum.de/olma/ehome.htm
>>
>>
>> There were many powered lighter-than-air flights well before the
>> Wright
>> Brothers were even born.
>>
>> Henri Giffard, 24 September 1852
>> www.skytamer.com/famous/1800.htm
>>
>>
>> the borther Wrights were just be filmed doing that, and they were
>> USamercians.
>
>Nonsense. None of these stand up to scrutiny. I've already dealt with
>Ader's false claims. Whitehead made an uncontrolled hop and later tried
>to boost his claim into something it wasn't.

No that isn't true.
If you would read the text, you would know,
that people have rebuild the flyer of Whitehead (Weisskopf).
And that flyer fly very well, it isn't uncontrolled.

bye
m. vanselow

[Thomas Borchert]

Vanselow,

> If you would read the text, you would know,
> that people have rebuild the flyer of Whitehead (Weisskopf).
>

Well, if YOU would research that, you would find that they didn't
rebuild it. The built something similar looking with a much more
powerful engine. A barn door will fly, if the attached engine is strong
enough...

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"vanselow" > wrote in message
...
>
> I'm not French,
> but that is what people know today.
> It is much more then a doubt, that the brother Wright did it first.
>

There is no credible evidence that anyone achieved powered, controlled
heavier-than-air flight before December 17, 1903.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"vanselow" > wrote in message
...
>
> No that isn't true.
> If you would read the text, you would know,
> that people have rebuild the flyer of Whitehead (Weisskopf).
> And that flyer fly very well, it isn't uncontrolled.
>

No true replica of any Whitehead craft has ever been built.

[Steve]

vanselow wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:51:20 +0100, Steve > wrote:
>
>
>>vanselow wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 15:13:34 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Platon67" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Commemorating the 100th Anniversary of Flight (1903-2003)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Are you saying that the Wrights did not achieve powered, sustained,
>>>>controlled
>>>>heavier-than-air flight in 1903, or are you saying that someone else
>>>>achieved it before them?
>>>
>>>
>>>There are a number of claimants to the first powered heavier-than-air
>>>flight.
>>>
>>>Clément Ader, 9 October 1890 to 14 October 1897
>>>http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clement_Ader
>>>www.daviesharbour.com/aiaa/hist/fra.html
>>>
>>>Lyman Gilmore, 15 May 15 1902
>>>http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyman_Gilmore
>>>
>>>Gustave Whitehead, (Gustav Weisskopf, he was a German) 14 August 1901
>>>www.deepsky.com/~firstflight/Pages/gpage4.html
>>>http://www.weisskopf.de/
>>>
>>>Richard Pearse, 31 March 1903
>>>www.destination.co.nz/temuka/pearse.htm
>>>www.billzilla.org/pearce.htm
>>>
>>>Karl Jatho, 18 August 1903
>>>www.flyingmachines.org/jatho.html
>>>
>>>
>>>May be the first kiter:
>>>Otto Lilienthal, 1891
>>>http://www.lilienthal-museum.de/olma/ehome.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>There were many powered lighter-than-air flights well before the
>>>Wright
>>>Brothers were even born.
>>>
>>>Henri Giffard, 24 September 1852
>>>www.skytamer.com/famous/1800.htm
>>>
>>>
>>>the borther Wrights were just be filmed doing that, and they were
>>>USamercians.
>>
>>Nonsense. None of these stand up to scrutiny. I've already dealt with
>>Ader's false claims. Whitehead made an uncontrolled hop and later tried
>>to boost his claim into something it wasn't.
>
>
> No that isn't true.
> If you would read the text, you would know,
> that people have rebuild the flyer of Whitehead (Weisskopf).
> And that flyer fly very well, it isn't uncontrolled.
>
> bye
> m. vanselow

It's you who needs to do more reading. That replica was cheated to a
significant degree and doesn't truly represent what Whitehead claimed to
have flown - not least in its powerplant. And it certainly did not have
control in all three axes - you do understand what that means, don't you?