Pilot Chronicles is Looking for Pilots

[pdxflyer]

If you're a pilot with a hair-raising story to tell (and who doesn't
have at least one of those), we encourage you to share it at Pilot
Chronicles.

Pilot Chronicles is a free website where pilots learn from the
experiences of other pilots. It's a great way to improve your
knowledge and situational awareness. While you're visiting we
encourage you to chronicle one of your own stories - talk about what
happened, how you reacted, and what you learned from the experience.

This is a brand new website so you will be among the first visitors.
We hope you'll help get this project off the ground (bad pun intended)
by posting a story or two. Happy flying!

Ron
Pilot Chronicles
http://www.pilotchronicles.com

A good pilot is always learning... a GREAT pilot shares what they've
learned.

[R.Hubbell]

On 10 Jan 2004 17:27:10 -0800 (pdxflyer) wrote:

> If you're a pilot with a hair-raising story to tell (and who doesn't
> have at least one of those), we encourage you to share it at Pilot
> Chronicles.

Here's the deal, this heirarchy is where the stories are....
So there's no incentive to go to that site and post stories
since this is where it's done. It's called Usenet and it's
been around longer than the www. If you're trying to generate
traffic to your site there are other ways to do that. But I suspect
you won't find a lot of people here to post stories there.

You could maintain and host the rec.aviation.piloting FAQs or
you could maintain a list of unique GA planes or like that.

R. Hubbell

>
> Pilot Chronicles is a free website where pilots learn from the
> experiences of other pilots. It's a great way to improve your
> knowledge and situational awareness. While you're visiting we
> encourage you to chronicle one of your own stories - talk about what
> happened, how you reacted, and what you learned from the experience.
>
> This is a brand new website so you will be among the first visitors.
> We hope you'll help get this project off the ground (bad pun intended)
> by posting a story or two. Happy flying!
>
> Ron
> Pilot Chronicles
> http://www.pilotchronicles.com
>
> A good pilot is always learning... a GREAT pilot shares what they've
> learned.

[pdxflyer]

Thanks for your response to our post. It is certainly not the intent
of Pilot Chronicles to compete with the message boards. What we
provide is a focused approach to the presentation and cataloging of
pilot experience with functionality quite different from message
boards. The boards are great but the format just didn't fit into what
we were trying to accomplish. That's why we don't (and never will)
offer message boards on our site. We'll leave that to the Googles and
iPilots of the world. In fact, we've even listed the Google Aviation
Groups on our links page.

We're simply a group of dedicated pilots that want to express our
passion for flying and hopefully help other pilots in the process. I
hope you'll click on over for a visit sometime. I think you'll
appreciate what we're trying to do.

Ron
Pilot Chronicles
www.pilotchronicles.com


"R.Hubbell" > wrote in message >...
> On 10 Jan 2004 17:27:10 -0800 (pdxflyer) wrote:
>
> > If you're a pilot with a hair-raising story to tell (and who doesn't
> > have at least one of those), we encourage you to share it at Pilot
> > Chronicles.
>
> Here's the deal, this heirarchy is where the stories are....
> So there's no incentive to go to that site and post stories
> since this is where it's done. It's called Usenet and it's
> been around longer than the www. If you're trying to generate
> traffic to your site there are other ways to do that. But I suspect
> you won't find a lot of people here to post stories there.
>
> You could maintain and host the rec.aviation.piloting FAQs or
> you could maintain a list of unique GA planes or like that.
>
> R. Hubbell
>
> >
> > Pilot Chronicles is a free website where pilots learn from the
> > experiences of other pilots. It's a great way to improve your
> > knowledge and situational awareness. While you're visiting we
> > encourage you to chronicle one of your own stories - talk about what
> > happened, how you reacted, and what you learned from the experience.
> >
> > This is a brand new website so you will be among the first visitors.
> > We hope you'll help get this project off the ground (bad pun intended)
> > by posting a story or two. Happy flying!
> >
> > Ron
> > Pilot Chronicles
> > http://www.pilotchronicles.com
> >
> > A good pilot is always learning... a GREAT pilot shares what they've
> > learned.

[Kyler Laird]

"R.Hubbell" > writes:

>Here's the deal, this heirarchy is where the stories are....
>So there's no incentive to go to that site and post stories
>since this is where it's done. It's called Usenet and it's
>been around longer than the www.

*But* there are HTTP interfaces to it too. (BTW, I'm not agreeing
that Usenet is somehow better just because it's been around longer.
I know of a lot of old things that aren't worthwhile. Usenet isn't
one of them though.)

>If you're trying to generate
>traffic to your site there are other ways to do that. But I suspect
>you won't find a lot of people here to post stories there.

Indeed. I would hope that someone with a real story to share would
be interested in *sharing* it, not locking it in some proprietary
Web site. Posting it to Usenet makes it easy to find and easy to
discuss. (Don't get me started on "Web boards.") Sometimes the
best part of the story is when someone says "Couldn't you have...?"
and the answer is "Doh! I wish I had thought of that!"

There's a lot to learn from stories. That's curtailed by putting
them in proprietary systems.

>You could maintain and host the rec.aviation.piloting FAQs or
>you could maintain a list of unique GA planes or like that.

....or even maintain lists of references to stories posted to Usenet.
If I found well-organized lists of Google links, I'd probably be
inclined to browse them.

--kyler

[pdxflyer]

OK, I didn't want to go down this road but what the hell...

It sounds like we're all in agreement that sharing useful information
is a good thing. What we seem to be hung up on is the way in which we
facilitate the sharing.

I agree with Kyler that just because something has been around for a
long time doesn't necessarily mean it's better. But again I come back
to one of my earlier statements which is, Pilot Chronicles is not
intended to be better or worse than Usenet or any other forum. It's
meant to be different. If you prefer the message board format for
sharing your stories I say "great", go for it. Just know that there
now exists another way to share your experiences. There's nothing
wrong with having choices available. Even though I love vanilla ice
cream I sure appreciate there being a hundred other flavors to choose
from.

It's only been up for a week, but I believe our site already has a
decidedly different tone than the message boards. And judging by the
supportive email I've received, it's a tone that must be appealing to
some of you.

What I strongly take issue with is the comment regarding stories being
locked up in a proprietary web site. We are a public web site just
like the message boards. Our members maintain control of the
chronicles they submit. They have complete editing capability, they
can add/swap/delete photos, and of course they control their
membership information. In short, we give members as much control and
access as possible without compromising the integrity and security of
the web site. Your use of the word "proprietary" seems to imply
otherwise.

I'd like to end this discussion by inviting anyone that's interested
to stop by Pilot Chronicles for a visit. The web site is a labor of
love. We simply offer pilots another alternative for sharing their
valuable experience with the aviation community.


Ron
Site Administrator - Pilot Chronicles
http://www.pilotchronicles.com

[Thomas Borchert]

Pdxflyer,

> We're simply a group of dedicated pilots that want to express our
> passion for flying
>

By publishing not "any flying story", but only the hair-rising ones?
That's kind of weird, don't you think?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Kyler Laird]

(pdxflyer) writes:

>But again I come back
>to one of my earlier statements which is, Pilot Chronicles is not
>intended to be better or worse than Usenet or any other forum. It's
>meant to be different.

O.k., so you've identified a need for further fragmentation of pilot
safety information and you're working to provide it.

(I'm still trying to figure out why PilotChronicles is a "unique
opportunity to learn from, and contribute to, the base of knowledge
that keeps all of us alive and flying." What's unique about it?)

>If you prefer the message board format for
>sharing your stories I say "great", go for it. Just know that there
>now exists another way to share your experiences. There's nothing
>wrong with having choices available.

If the need is simply to share a story, yes, having choices is great.
One of the choices, for example, is writing it on a piece of paper,
and then taping it to the underside of your toilet seat. That method
is readily available to most everyone

If the goal is to make it easy for others to access both for reading
and commenting for all eternity, the toilet seat idea isn't optimal.
Usenet however, is a great solution.

>Even though I love vanilla ice
>cream I sure appreciate there being a hundred other flavors to choose
>from.

But in this case your desire for lots of choices comes at the
detriment of the reader. (Note, however, that Usenet does offer an
infinite choice of clients. That seems a lot more important to me
than having choice of places and methods to lock away the data.)

If every time you choose another "flavor," I as a reader have to make
the same decision in order to access your information, it's a pain
for me. And there are (ideally) a *lot* of readers for each author.

>What I strongly take issue with is the comment regarding stories being
>locked up in a proprietary web site. We are a public web site just
>like the message boards.

By "message boards" I hope you don't mean "Usenet." Storing data
in a database controlled by
InStep Interactive
5136 NE Alameda St.
Portland, OR 97213
US
and allowing select people to read, modify and add content upon
approval is nowhere near the same as being "public" in the way that
Usenet is.

What happens to all of the effort users have invested if InStep
folds or decides that PilotChronicles.com is no longer worthwhile?

>Our members maintain control of the
>chronicles they submit. They have complete editing capability, they
>can add/swap/delete photos, and of course they control their
>membership information. In short, we give members

....not the "public"...

>as much control and
>access as possible without compromising the integrity and security of
>the web site. Your use of the word "proprietary" seems to imply
>otherwise.

That was my misunderstanding. I didn't see an easy way to share the
data that's in your database with the public. All I saw was
"Copyright © 2004, Pilot Chronicles". Now that I understand that the
content is open to the public, I think I'll build a tool to mirror
the content to Usenet, providing yet "another way to share your
experiences".

Thank you for clearing up that issue.

--kyler

[pdxflyer]

Kyler,

I don't know why your chosen method of defending Usenet is by trashing
the efforts of other web sites. This is troubling and a bit
confusing. If you don't want to use our site to share your pilot
knowledge and experience, that's perfectly fine. In fact, you
probably wouldn't get much enjoyment out of it because it's not
designed to be a confrontational forum.

I think I've been very forthcoming in explaining what we're trying to
accomplish with Pilot Chronicles but for some reason you still feel a
need to question our integrity and motives. I assume that's why you
posted the name and address of my web development business -
information which is easily accessible to anyone by simply performing
a search of the whois database. This does however make me question
your integrity since you must feel it's OK to violate the terms and
conditions of the whois database by republishing it's data to a public
forum. Nevertheless, thank you for the free plug, Kyler. For those
of you that missed it, here's the contact info for my freelance web
design business:

InStep Interactive
5136 NE Alameda St.
Portland, OR 97213
Website: http://www.instepinteractive.com

And since you seem so interested in the "behind the scenes" of Pilot
Chronicles, here's a little something extra just for you Kyler... I'm
married with no children, my dog's name is Cider, and when I'm not
flying I'm either windsurfing or riding my '94 Harley Sportster. I
hope you'll sleep better tonight.

Before I end this post (and hopefully this thread) I did want to
respond to Thomas' comment regarding my use of the term "hair-raising"
experiences. I did not mean to imply that only death defying
experiences need apply. We are looking for any story that taught a
pilot a lesson. I will choose my words more carefully next time.
That's the kind of constructive critism I can use. Thanks Thomas.

Ron
Pilot Chronicles
http://www.pilotchronicles.com

[R.Hubbell]

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 16:21:37 GMT Kyler Laird > wrote:

> "R.Hubbell" > writes:
>
> >Here's the deal, this heirarchy is where the stories are....
> >So there's no incentive to go to that site and post stories
> >since this is where it's done. It's called Usenet and it's
> >been around longer than the www.
>
> *But* there are HTTP interfaces to it too. (BTW, I'm not agreeing
> that Usenet is somehow better just because it's been around longer.


I never said it was better, just that it was around longer. The OP
seemed to not comprehend Usenet fully so I pointed that out.


> I know of a lot of old things that aren't worthwhile. Usenet isn't
> one of them though.)
>
> >If you're trying to generate
> >traffic to your site there are other ways to do that. But I suspect
> >you won't find a lot of people here to post stories there.
>
> Indeed. I would hope that someone with a real story to share would
> be interested in *sharing* it, not locking it in some proprietary
> Web site. Posting it to Usenet makes it easy to find and easy to
> discuss. (Don't get me started on "Web boards.") Sometimes the


Right Usenet is 24/7 all over the globe and it's essentially forever
with the advent of google.com (deja.com used to do that)



> best part of the story is when someone says "Couldn't you have...?"
> and the answer is "Doh! I wish I had thought of that!"
>
> There's a lot to learn from stories. That's curtailed by putting
> them in proprietary systems.
>
> >You could maintain and host the rec.aviation.piloting FAQs or
> >you could maintain a list of unique GA planes or like that.
>
> ...or even maintain lists of references to stories posted to Usenet.
> If I found well-organized lists of Google links, I'd probably be
> inclined to browse them.



I've seen that done in places but it's rare. I agree it's useful.


R. Hubbell


>
> --kyler

[R.Hubbell]

On 11 Jan 2004 21:11:25 -0800 (pdxflyer) wrote:

> OK, I didn't want to go down this road but what the hell...
>
> It sounds like we're all in agreement that sharing useful information
> is a good thing. What we seem to be hung up on is the way in which we
> facilitate the sharing.
>
> I agree with Kyler that just because something has been around for a
> long time doesn't necessarily mean it's better. But again I come back

See my other post I never said that, you both inferred that though. :)


> to one of my earlier statements which is, Pilot Chronicles is not
> intended to be better or worse than Usenet or any other forum. It's
> meant to be different. If you prefer the message board format for
> sharing your stories I say "great", go for it. Just know that there
> now exists another way to share your experiences. There's nothing
> wrong with having choices available. Even though I love vanilla ice
> cream I sure appreciate there being a hundred other flavors to choose
> from.
>
> It's only been up for a week, but I believe our site already has a
> decidedly different tone than the message boards. And judging by the
> supportive email I've received, it's a tone that must be appealing to
> some of you.
>
> What I strongly take issue with is the comment regarding stories being
> locked up in a proprietary web site. We are a public web site just
> like the message boards. Our members maintain control of the
> chronicles they submit. They have complete editing capability, they
> can add/swap/delete photos, and of course they control their
> membership information. In short, we give members as much control and
> access as possible without compromising the integrity and security of
> the web site. Your use of the word "proprietary" seems to imply
> otherwise.

Usenet is global, 24/7 and I will bet that it will be around for a
very long time. Usenet posts can't be censored or removed. They can
(ok moderated groups allow more control)
be cancelled by the original poster. But web sites have been known
to go away when someone loses interest or decides not to pay the bills
anymore. Not so with Usenet. The differences between Usenet and
a web site discussion board are vast. How many backups of Usenet
are out there? Usenet can survive just about anything.


You as the webmaster have complete control over the board, you could
prevent posters from posting if you found them offensive. It can
happen on Usenet but it's rare because Usenet is meant to be a rough
and tumble place at times. Most the time it's a good place and the
good groups carry on decently for the most part.

Viva la Usenet!

R. Hubbell

>
> I'd like to end this discussion by inviting anyone that's interested
> to stop by Pilot Chronicles for a visit. The web site is a labor of
> love. We simply offer pilots another alternative for sharing their
> valuable experience with the aviation community.
>
>
> Ron
> Site Administrator - Pilot Chronicles
> http://www.pilotchronicles.com

[R.Hubbell]

On 10 Jan 2004 23:05:29 -0800 (pdxflyer) wrote:

> Thanks for your response to our post. It is certainly not the intent
> of Pilot Chronicles to compete with the message boards. What we


You keep referring to Usenet as a message board. Tells me you don't
really understand what Usenet really is, but that's okay. Because
it really is so amazing and so big that it's often hard to explain
and it can be hard to comprehend for someone that's new to the
internet.

> provide is a focused approach to the presentation and cataloging of
> pilot experience with functionality quite different from message
> boards. The boards are great but the format just didn't fit into what
> we were trying to accomplish. That's why we don't (and never will)
> offer message boards on our site. We'll leave that to the Googles and
> iPilots of the world. In fact, we've even listed the Google Aviation
> Groups on our links page.
>
> We're simply a group of dedicated pilots that want to express our
> passion for flying and hopefully help other pilots in the process. I
> hope you'll click on over for a visit sometime. I think you'll
> appreciate what we're trying to do.

Look I have no problem with the fact that you're trying to pursue
something that you're passionate about. But, you don't fully
comprehend some things about Usenet and its denizens. What you're
doing is akin to going into a Starbuck's and saying please come over
to my house and drink your coffee, it's nicer and friendlier there.
Does that put things into perspective for you? I hope you don't
take this wrong but it seems like we're not getting through to you.
At least we're taking the time to try and explain things. There is
that.

Good luck on your site.

R. Hubbell



>
> Ron
> Pilot Chronicles
> www.pilotchronicles.com
>
>
> "R.Hubbell" > wrote in message >...
> > On 10 Jan 2004 17:27:10 -0800 (pdxflyer) wrote:
> >
> > > If you're a pilot with a hair-raising story to tell (and who doesn't
> > > have at least one of those), we encourage you to share it at Pilot
> > > Chronicles.
> >
> > Here's the deal, this heirarchy is where the stories are....
> > So there's no incentive to go to that site and post stories
> > since this is where it's done. It's called Usenet and it's
> > been around longer than the www. If you're trying to generate
> > traffic to your site there are other ways to do that. But I suspect
> > you won't find a lot of people here to post stories there.
> >
> > You could maintain and host the rec.aviation.piloting FAQs or
> > you could maintain a list of unique GA planes or like that.
> >
> > R. Hubbell
> >
> > >
> > > Pilot Chronicles is a free website where pilots learn from the
> > > experiences of other pilots. It's a great way to improve your
> > > knowledge and situational awareness. While you're visiting we
> > > encourage you to chronicle one of your own stories - talk about what
> > > happened, how you reacted, and what you learned from the experience.
> > >
> > > This is a brand new website so you will be among the first visitors.
> > > We hope you'll help get this project off the ground (bad pun intended)
> > > by posting a story or two. Happy flying!
> > >
> > > Ron
> > > Pilot Chronicles
> > > http://www.pilotchronicles.com
> > >
> > > A good pilot is always learning... a GREAT pilot shares what they've
> > > learned.

[Kyler Laird]

(pdxflyer) writes:

>I don't know why your chosen method of defending Usenet is by trashing
>the efforts of other web sites.

I don't know why you choose to interpret my explanations as doing either.
Usenet doesn't need defending and your site doesn't need trashing. I'm
quite happy speaking in terms of facts and letting people interpret them
on their own without emotional pleas.

>This is troubling and a bit
>confusing.

Indeeed. Your interpretation indicates that you have some problems that
I'll be happier to avoid.

>If you don't want to use our site to share your pilot
>knowledge and experience, that's perfectly fine.

Whew! I was fearing it might not be there for awhile. Thank you for
granting your permission to abstain.

>In fact, you
>probably wouldn't get much enjoyment out of it because it's not
>designed to be a confrontational forum.

Now for *my* interpretation..."Anyone who points out something that is
counter to what we've already considered is being confrontational. We
want to run a site where no dissent is expressed." Am I close?

>I think I've been very forthcoming in explaining what we're trying to
>accomplish with Pilot Chronicles

I agree, and I think I've been accurate at explaining the things I
have addressed in this thread. Heck, if not for one of us getting all
"troubled and confused," this could simply be an informative thread.

>but for some reason you still feel a
>need to question our integrity and motives.

Nope. I don't think I have any questions about either. Did you catch
one? Perhaps you'd like to quote it and respond to it in context.

>I assume that's why you
>posted the name and address of my web development business -

No, it was in response to the text that I quoted directly above it in
which you claimed that it was not a proprietary system.

>information which is easily accessible to anyone by simply performing
>a search of the whois database.

Congratulations. You are certainly showing yourself to be a wizard of
the Internet and my respect for you continues to grow.

>This does however make me question
>your integrity since you must feel it's OK to violate the terms and
>conditions of the whois database by republishing it's data to a public
>forum.

Oh, no! You're right. I'm an awful person with low integrity. Are
you claiming that has anything to do with the validity of the things I
am saying?

>Before I end this post (and hopefully this thread)

That sounds like a good indication of how PilotChronicles is likely to
be run. If someone starts to point out anything which the owners do
not wish to consider, *snip* goes the thread.

It's a good illustration of a major Usenet advantage (or disadvantage,
if you like exerting control over the dissemination of dissent).

--kyler

[pdxflyer]

The way this simple announcement about a new website progressed is
precisely the reason Pilot Chronicles exists.

Your last post indicates that you have more than enough time on your
hands to keep this thread going indefinitely, so I'll let you have the
last words. Go ahead... we all know you will.


Ron
Pilot Chronicles
http://www.pilotchronicles.com