Why are gyrocopters so small?

[Kyler Laird]

I see that the Fairey Rotodyne had a max. gross weight of over
32,000 pounds. The only gyro in which I have time was close to
2% of that weight. It's been years since I've been to a PRA
fly-in, but I only recall seeing *little* (two-person max.)
aircraft - much lighter than the 5200 pound fixed-wing I'm
accustomed to flying.

I'm curious if there are special design problems that emerge
when gyros exceed some weight, or is it just that people who
want gyros don't want large aircraft?

Thank you.

--kyler

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
Kyler Laird > wrote:

> I see that the Fairey Rotodyne had a max. gross weight of over
> 32,000 pounds. The only gyro in which I have time was close to
> 2% of that weight. It's been years since I've been to a PRA
> fly-in, but I only recall seeing *little* (two-person max.)
> aircraft - much lighter than the 5200 pound fixed-wing I'm
> accustomed to flying.
>
> I'm curious if there are special design problems that emerge
> when gyros exceed some weight, or is it just that people who
> want gyros don't want large aircraft?
>
> Thank you.
>
> --kyler

The gyro is, essentially, a dead-end in aircraft development --
somewhere between helocopters and fixed-wing. Helicopters provide far
more control and performance than do gyros, which are no faster than
helos and cannot hover.

[QDurham]

>The gyro is, essentially, a dead-end in aircraft development --
>somewhere between helocopters and fixed-wing. Helicopters provide far
>more control and performance than do gyros, which are no faster than
>helos and cannot hover.

Price? Complexity? A 747 can't hover either, but has its uses. A helicopter
is slower than a 747, but it too has its uses Waht might a gyro's unique uses
be?

Quent

[Walkaway Renouf]

Kyler Laird wrote:
> I see that the Fairey Rotodyne had a max. gross weight of over
> 32,000 pounds. The only gyro in which I have time was close to
> 2% of that weight. It's been years since I've been to a PRA
> fly-in, but I only recall seeing *little* (two-person max.)
> aircraft - much lighter than the 5200 pound fixed-wing I'm
> accustomed to flying.
>
> I'm curious if there are special design problems that emerge
> when gyros exceed some weight, or is it just that people who
> want gyros don't want large aircraft?

Market forces. Gyros have strictly limited functionality, being 'neither
fish nor fowl'. If no-one can find a real use for them, their market is
limited to the enthusiast market, which has shallow pockets and very
limited requirements (ie, one or two seats).

[Jack Cunniff]

Kyler Laird > writes:

>I see that the Fairey Rotodyne had a max. gross weight of over
>32,000 pounds. The only gyro in which I have time was close to
>2% of that weight. It's been years since I've been to a PRA
>fly-in, but I only recall seeing *little* (two-person max.)
>aircraft - much lighter than the 5200 pound fixed-wing I'm
>accustomed to flying.

>I'm curious if there are special design problems that emerge
>when gyros exceed some weight, or is it just that people who
>want gyros don't want large aircraft?

>Thank you.

>--kyler

I thought it interesting that the other people responding to Kyler's
thread had apparently not heard of the "Rotodyne", and didn't check out
the Fairey Rotodyne (google for it!).

There IS a company working on a very cool -new- gyroplane - Groen
Brothers. See http://www.groenbros.com/product/hawk4.htm. Elsewhere on
their website, they propose converting existing fixed-wing airframes to
rotary wing.

"The same process would permit the quick and economical introduction of
VTOL GyroLiners in the 19, 35, 50, and 75 passenger sizes. These runway
independent airliners could provide safe and reliable, regional
point-to-point transport and alleviate the continued congesting of air
travel systems, a topic of major concern for the airline industry as
growth begins to return. "

-Jack

[Kyler Laird]

Jack Cunniff > writes:

>I thought it interesting that the other people responding to Kyler's
>thread had apparently not heard of the "Rotodyne", and didn't check out
>the Fairey Rotodyne (google for it!).

Wading through the misinformed responses is the price of getting the
good information that usually comes...eventually.

>There IS a company working on a very cool -new- gyroplane - Groen
>Brothers.

For "cool" gyros, I'd rank the CarterCopter a little higher.
http://www.cartercopters.com/

--kyler

[Walkaway Renouf]

Jack Cunniff wrote:
> I thought it interesting that the other people responding to Kyler's
> thread had apparently not heard of the "Rotodyne", and didn't check out
> the Fairey Rotodyne (google for it!).
>
> There IS a company working on a very cool -new- gyroplane - Groen
> Brothers. See http://www.groenbros.com/product/hawk4.htm. Elsewhere on
> their website, they propose converting existing fixed-wing airframes to
> rotary wing.
>
> "The same process would permit the quick and economical introduction of
> VTOL GyroLiners in the 19, 35, 50, and 75 passenger sizes. These runway
> independent airliners could provide safe and reliable, regional
> point-to-point transport and alleviate the continued congesting of air
> travel systems, a topic of major concern for the airline industry as
> growth begins to return. "

Well, some of us did know about the Rotodyne but, considering its age
and spectacular lack of success, didn't consider it relevant. The
Rotodyne was developed out of the Jet Gyrodyne and - significantly, from
the point of view of this discussion - was a *failure*. It first
appeared in 1957, failed to garner much in the way of orders (though the
RAF briefly considered it) and was abandoned in 1962.

Also, the Rotodyne was *not* a true gyro in that its rotor blades were
driven by turbine compressor air. The same was true of its predecessor,
the Jet Gyrodyne, which in turn was derived from the Gyrodyne which, in
spite of its name, had rotors driven directly by the engine. It got its
name because it became a sort-of gyro in forward flight: the aircraft
had a forward-facing anti-torque prop on a starboard stub wing. That
prop also provided forward thrust and in cruise flight a gyro effect
provided the lift. None of these aircraft, however, could be said to be
a true gyro, and they suffered the fate of so many hybrid aircraft -
killed by their own compromises.

The Groen project is as yet unproven. This kind of thing comes and goes
all the time in aviation and I think their belief in gyroliners is
fanciful at best. We'll see, but don't hold your breath. So the fact
remains that gyros tend to be small aircraft because that's the only
market open to them.