Small aircraft exhaust silencer manufacturers?

[Seppo Sipilä]

Hello all, I'm trying to find manufacturers of exhaust silencers for
typical Continental and Lycoming small-aircraft engines. I know of
Gomolzig, are there others?

I'm looking for officially approved silencers, preferrably such that
they can be installed to the original exhaust manifold.

S.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
Seppo Sipil? > wrote:

> Hello all, I'm trying to find manufacturers of exhaust silencers for
> typical Continental and Lycoming small-aircraft engines. I know of
> Gomolzig, are there others?
>
> I'm looking for officially approved silencers, preferrably such that
> they can be installed to the original exhaust manifold.
>
> S.

If your certification rules are like US rules, you will have to have a
STC for the plane and the engine.

Do you HAVE to have one?

[Seppo Sipilä]

>> Hello all, I'm trying to find manufacturers of exhaust silencers for
>> typical Continental and Lycoming small-aircraft engines. I know of
>> Gomolzig, are there others?
>>
>> I'm looking for officially approved silencers, preferrably such that
>> they can be installed to the original exhaust manifold.
>>
>> S.
>
>If your certification rules are like US rules, you will have to have a
>STC for the plane and the engine.
>
>Do you HAVE to have one?

Yes, certainly, but I'd expect any serious silencer manufacturer to
have taken care of that.

Now I've found Liese in addition to Gomolzig. Both are in Germany (the
noise limits there are very strict).

S.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
Seppo Sipil? > wrote:

> >> Hello all, I'm trying to find manufacturers of exhaust silencers for
> >> typical Continental and Lycoming small-aircraft engines. I know of
> >> Gomolzig, are there others?
> >>
> >> I'm looking for officially approved silencers, preferrably such that
> >> they can be installed to the original exhaust manifold.
> >>
> >> S.
> >
> >If your certification rules are like US rules, you will have to have a
> >STC for the plane and the engine.
> >
> >Do you HAVE to have one?
>
> Yes, certainly, but I'd expect any serious silencer manufacturer to
> have taken care of that.
>
> Now I've found Liese in addition to Gomolzig. Both are in Germany (the
> noise limits there are very strict).
>
> S.
>

Do indicidual cities or states in Germany restrict your aircraft
equipment? If so, that is pure chaos!

[Seppo Sipilä]

>> Now I've found Liese in addition to Gomolzig. Both are in Germany (the
>> noise limits there are very strict).
>>
>> S.
>>
>
>Do indicidual cities or states in Germany restrict your aircraft
>equipment? If so, that is pure chaos!

Nope, the standards are the same in all Germany. You can fly a
run-of-the-mill small aircraft to Germany, but if it doesn't meet the
noise standards you'll pay more in landing fees.

[Stefan]

Orval Fairbairn wrote:

> Do indicidual cities or states in Germany restrict your aircraft
> equipment? If so, that is pure chaos!

No chaos at all. There are "noise classes", and each aircraft has a
noise certificate which states in which class it is. When landing, you
pay a landing fee and a noise surcharge, the latter depending on the
noise class stated in that certificate. (Easier spoken, the landing fee
depends on the noise.) There are some airports which are forbidden for
the noisier planes, this is stated in the AIP.

Stefan

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
Stefan > wrote:

> Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>
> > Do indicidual cities or states in Germany restrict your aircraft
> > equipment? If so, that is pure chaos!
>
> No chaos at all. There are "noise classes", and each aircraft has a
> noise certificate which states in which class it is. When landing, you
> pay a landing fee and a noise surcharge, the latter depending on the
> noise class stated in that certificate. (Easier spoken, the landing fee
> depends on the noise.) There are some airports which are forbidden for
> the noisier planes, this is stated in the AIP.
>
> Stefan
>

It sounds as if the Greens really have everbody by the testicles in
Germany. In the US they are some of the most obnoxious people you can
ever meet.

[Kees Mies]

> It sounds as if the Greens really have everbody by the testicles in
> Germany.
No, just the pilots.

Well, I think it is good idea to tax the noisier aircraft a bit more.
Do not forget that airports have neighbours too. And Germany like many
other west European countries is very densly populated.
You see a lot of aircraft overhere with off standard mufflers and
propellors just to keep the noise down.

At my home airfield they charge you extra during the summer months
when you come in after 19:00 or on saturdays and sundays. In this way
they want you to fly during office hours. Before I forget, we have
"noise sensitive areas" too.
They need to be avoided as much as possible.

You can always see the pilots with N-reg aircraft coming out of the
office looking a bit pale and staggering on their feet after they have
paid the landing fees. They do not have a noise certificate thus
paying the highest fee.
I always like to ask them, with a smirk, 'Nice plane, an SR22 isn'it,
what did you pay for your landing? he he he'

-Kees D-EDMB

[William W. Plummer]

Kees Mies wrote:
>>It sounds as if the Greens really have everbody by the testicles in
>>Germany.
>
> No, just the pilots.
>
> Well, I think it is good idea to tax the noisier aircraft a bit more.
> Do not forget that airports have neighbours too. And Germany like many
> other west European countries is very densly populated.
> You see a lot of aircraft overhere with off standard mufflers and
> propellors just to keep the noise down.
>
> At my home airfield they charge you extra during the summer months
> when you come in after 19:00 or on saturdays and sundays. In this way
> they want you to fly during office hours. Before I forget, we have
> "noise sensitive areas" too.
> They need to be avoided as much as possible.
>
> You can always see the pilots with N-reg aircraft coming out of the
> office looking a bit pale and staggering on their feet after they have
> paid the landing fees. They do not have a noise certificate thus
> paying the highest fee.
> I always like to ask them, with a smirk, 'Nice plane, an SR22 isn'it,
> what did you pay for your landing? he he he'
>
> -Kees D-EDMB
Just my opinion: Controlling behavior by taxes and fees is naive,
simplistic and probably ineffective. But it does provide more jobs for
bureaucrats to track licenses, compliance and fines. But it's your tax
money...

A better approach is to make certain tail numbers are readable from the
ground so offenders can be identified. If enough people are
sufficiently annoyed, they can hire a sound engineer to measure the
sound level and pursue the issue in the court system using the existing
noise ordinances.

Once word of successful prosecution get out, things will change.
Offending tail numbers can be published in the newspapers so people will
know the operators are antisocial and should not be encouraged.

[Stefan]

Orval Fairbairn wrote:

> It sounds as if the Greens really have everbody by the testicles in
> Germany. In the US they are some of the most obnoxious people you can
> ever meet.

Personally, some of the most obnoxious people I have met were pilots...

Stefan

[Stefan]

William W. Plummer wrote:

> Just my opinion: Controlling behavior by taxes and fees is naive,
> simplistic and probably ineffective.

There are a couple of very qualified economists who have the opposite
opinion.

> If enough people are
> sufficiently annoyed, they can hire a sound engineer to measure the
> sound level and pursue the issue in the court system

Which is simpler and less bureaucratic?

> Offending tail numbers can be published in the newspapers so people will
> know the operators are antisocial and should not be encouraged.

In the middle ages this was called the pillory. Thank god (or whomever)
things have changed.

Stefan

[Kees Mies]

"William W. Plummer" > wrote in message news:<7EW1d.94684$3l3.28793@attbi_s03>...
> Kees Mies wrote:
> >>It sounds as if the Greens really have everbody by the testicles in
> >>Germany.
> >
> > No, just the pilots.
> >
> > Well, I think it is good idea to tax the noisier aircraft a bit more.
> > Do not forget that airports have neighbours too. And Germany like many
> > other west European countries is very densly populated.
> > You see a lot of aircraft overhere with off standard mufflers and
> > propellors just to keep the noise down.
> >
> > At my home airfield they charge you extra during the summer months
> > when you come in after 19:00 or on saturdays and sundays. In this way
> > they want you to fly during office hours. Before I forget, we have
> > "noise sensitive areas" too.
> > They need to be avoided as much as possible.
> >
> > You can always see the pilots with N-reg aircraft coming out of the
> > office looking a bit pale and staggering on their feet after they have
> > paid the landing fees. They do not have a noise certificate thus
> > paying the highest fee.
> > I always like to ask them, with a smirk, 'Nice plane, an SR22 isn'it,
> > what did you pay for your landing? he he he'
> >
> > -Kees D-EDMB
> Just my opinion: Controlling behavior by taxes and fees is naive,
> simplistic and probably ineffective. But it does provide more jobs for
> bureaucrats to track licenses, compliance and fines. But it's your tax
> money...
It works.

> A better approach is to make certain tail numbers are readable from the
> ground so offenders can be identified. If enough people are
> sufficiently annoyed, they can hire a sound engineer to measure the
> sound level and pursue the issue in the court system using the existing
> noise ordinances.
Thus providing more jobs for those poor lawyers.

> Once word of successful prosecution get out, things will change.
> Offending tail numbers can be published in the newspapers so people will
> know the operators are antisocial and should not be encouraged.
Antisocial people do not care if their names are in the newspaper.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
(Kees Mies) wrote:

> "William W. Plummer" > wrote in message
> news:<7EW1d.94684$3l3.28793@attbi_s03>...
> > Kees Mies wrote:
> > >>It sounds as if the Greens really have everbody by the testicles in
> > >>Germany.
> > >
> > > No, just the pilots.
> > >
> > > Well, I think it is good idea to tax the noisier aircraft a bit more.
> > > Do not forget that airports have neighbours too. And Germany like many
> > > other west European countries is very densly populated.
> > > You see a lot of aircraft overhere with off standard mufflers and
> > > propellors just to keep the noise down.
> > >
> > > At my home airfield they charge you extra during the summer months
> > > when you come in after 19:00 or on saturdays and sundays. In this way
> > > they want you to fly during office hours. Before I forget, we have
> > > "noise sensitive areas" too.
> > > They need to be avoided as much as possible.
> > >
> > > You can always see the pilots with N-reg aircraft coming out of the
> > > office looking a bit pale and staggering on their feet after they have
> > > paid the landing fees. They do not have a noise certificate thus
> > > paying the highest fee.
> > > I always like to ask them, with a smirk, 'Nice plane, an SR22 isn'it,
> > > what did you pay for your landing? he he he'
> > >
> > > -Kees D-EDMB
> > Just my opinion: Controlling behavior by taxes and fees is naive,
> > simplistic and probably ineffective. But it does provide more jobs for
> > bureaucrats to track licenses, compliance and fines. But it's your tax
> > money...
> It works.
>
> > A better approach is to make certain tail numbers are readable from the
> > ground so offenders can be identified. If enough people are
> > sufficiently annoyed, they can hire a sound engineer to measure the
> > sound level and pursue the issue in the court system using the existing
> > noise ordinances.
> Thus providing more jobs for those poor lawyers.
>
> > Once word of successful prosecution get out, things will change.
> > Offending tail numbers can be published in the newspapers so people will
> > know the operators are antisocial and should not be encouraged.
> Antisocial people do not care if their names are in the newspaper.


Of course, the real problem is that there are always a few people who
are annoyed by the mere fact that someone is flying his own plane. Then
they imagine some "violation" to complain about. We often find these
people living near airports. There are even a few who have moved near
several GA airports, just to make complaints. We often find them in the
Green movement.

[Fritz]

William W. Plummer > wrote:

> Just my opinion: Controlling behavior by taxes and fees is naive,
> simplistic and probably ineffective. But it does provide more jobs for
> bureaucrats to track licenses, compliance and fines. But it's your tax
> money...

other examples in Europe: petrol, cigarettes, alcohol ...

--
Fritz

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >, (Fritz)
wrote:

> William W. Plummer > wrote:
>
> > Just my opinion: Controlling behavior by taxes and fees is naive,
> > simplistic and probably ineffective. But it does provide more jobs for
> > bureaucrats to track licenses, compliance and fines. But it's your tax
> > money...
>
> other examples in Europe: petrol, cigarettes, alcohol ...



And the Democrats want us to be more like Europe? HELL NO!