Turbine air start -- too cold?

[Juan Jimenez]

The engine on my homebuilt aircraft is a small French turbine, a Microturbo
022 Couguar (one version behind the TRS-18-046). It starts using good ol'
air impingement, which the manual specs out to 145 psi, 1.21 lbs volume.
Now, I always had problems motoring the engine to a high enough RPM where I
thought it would be safe to open the fuel and spark if I pressurized my tank
to 155, so I bought myself a pressure multiplier (I was worried about hot
starts). It's a simple SMC unit that mechanically multiplies air pressure by
4x, up to 280-300 psi or so. I have a converted 100# propane tank to hold
the air, which I pressurize to 280 and regulate to 145 psi. It works GREAT
though it takes a while to do its job.

However, the engine now refuses to start, even though the spark is great and
fuel atomization is also good. I'm concerned that when I dump the air into
the engine, the drop in pressure is cooling the air so much that it
interferes with the start process and the fuel mist doesn't light up like it
did in the past. The temperature drop is significant -- if I remove the air
start hose and open the valve wide open, ice will form on the outlet. Where
I live, the Caribbean, the air is also quite humid, and I'm sure that is
contributing to this even though I have a water trap in the air line.

The original docs on the engine say that the ground servicing rig had air
tanks, two pressure regulators and associated valves. How would one avoid
this problem, and is it in fact something that could interfere with the
start, or should I be looking elsewhere? Fuel pressure is fine, spark is a
whopping blue honker that looks every bit as deadly as I'm sure it is,
atomization is fine, etc.

Thoughts?

[Sean Trost]

Juan,
Cooling would take one leg of the combustion triangle out of the
picture. I dare say it would take a large amount of cooling to do so.

I suspect that a more plausable reason would be the fuel air ratio being
outside the LEL.

The manual calles for 145 psi and 1.21 lbs volumn. are you getting the
volumn with the setup you are using ?

all the best.
Sean

Juan Jimenez wrote:
> The engine on my homebuilt aircraft is a small French turbine, a Microturbo
> 022 Couguar (one version behind the TRS-18-046). It starts using good ol'
> air impingement, which the manual specs out to 145 psi, 1.21 lbs volume.
> Now, I always had problems motoring the engine to a high enough RPM where I
> thought it would be safe to open the fuel and spark if I pressurized my tank
> to 155, so I bought myself a pressure multiplier (I was worried about hot
> starts). It's a simple SMC unit that mechanically multiplies air pressure by
> 4x, up to 280-300 psi or so. I have a converted 100# propane tank to hold
> the air, which I pressurize to 280 and regulate to 145 psi. It works GREAT
> though it takes a while to do its job.
>
> However, the engine now refuses to start, even though the spark is great and
> fuel atomization is also good. I'm concerned that when I dump the air into
> the engine, the drop in pressure is cooling the air so much that it
> interferes with the start process and the fuel mist doesn't light up like it
> did in the past. The temperature drop is significant -- if I remove the air
> start hose and open the valve wide open, ice will form on the outlet. Where
> I live, the Caribbean, the air is also quite humid, and I'm sure that is
> contributing to this even though I have a water trap in the air line.
>
> The original docs on the engine say that the ground servicing rig had air
> tanks, two pressure regulators and associated valves. How would one avoid
> this problem, and is it in fact something that could interfere with the
> start, or should I be looking elsewhere? Fuel pressure is fine, spark is a
> whopping blue honker that looks every bit as deadly as I'm sure it is,
> atomization is fine, etc.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>

[Capt.Doug]

>"Juan Jimenez" wrote in message >
>so I bought myself a pressure multiplier (I was worried about hot
> starts). It's a simple SMC unit that mechanically multiplies air pressure
by
> 4x, up to 280-300 psi or so. I have a converted 100# propane tank to hold
> the air, which I pressurize to 280 and regulate to 145 psi. It works GREAT
> though it takes a while to do its job.

With the air multiplier, you have the pressure, but do you still have the
volume (cubic feet per minute)?

> I'm concerned that when I dump the air into
> the engine, the drop in pressure is cooling the air so much that it
> interferes with the start process and the fuel mist doesn't light up like
it
> did in the past.

APUs are designed to start at altitude where the temperature may be minus
40C.

D.

[Colibri]

Juan Jimenez wrote:

> The engine on my homebuilt aircraft is a small French turbine, a Microturbo
> 022 Couguar (one version behind the TRS-18-046). It starts using good ol'
> air impingement, which the manual specs out to 145 psi, 1.21 lbs volume.
> Now, I always had problems motoring the engine to a high enough RPM where I
> thought it would be safe to open the fuel and spark if I pressurized my tank
> to 155, so I bought myself a pressure multiplier (I was worried about hot
> starts). It's a simple SMC unit that mechanically multiplies air pressure by
> 4x, up to 280-300 psi or so. I have a converted 100# propane tank to hold
> the air, which I pressurize to 280 and regulate to 145 psi. It works GREAT
> though it takes a while to do its job.
>
> However, the engine now refuses to start, even though the spark is great and
> fuel atomization is also good. I'm concerned that when I dump the air into
> the engine, the drop in pressure is cooling the air so much that it
> interferes with the start process and the fuel mist doesn't light up like it
> did in the past. The temperature drop is significant -- if I remove the air
> start hose and open the valve wide open, ice will form on the outlet. Where
> I live, the Caribbean, the air is also quite humid, and I'm sure that is
> contributing to this even though I have a water trap in the air line.
>
> The original docs on the engine say that the ground servicing rig had air
> tanks, two pressure regulators and associated valves. How would one avoid
> this problem, and is it in fact something that could interfere with the
> start, or should I be looking elsewhere? Fuel pressure is fine, spark is a
> whopping blue honker that looks every bit as deadly as I'm sure it is,
> atomization is fine, etc.
>
> Thoughts?

My thought is that the air impinges on the turbine wheel, not the
compressor. So that cold air has nothing to do with lighting the mixture.

[Juan Jimenez]

Yes, the volume is more than enough, as evidenced by N1 reaching close to
15%.

Juan

"Sean Trost" > wrote in message
. ..
> Juan,
> Cooling would take one leg of the combustion triangle out of the picture.
> I dare say it would take a large amount of cooling to do so.
>
> I suspect that a more plausable reason would be the fuel air ratio being
> outside the LEL.
>
> The manual calles for 145 psi and 1.21 lbs volumn. are you getting the
> volumn with the setup you are using ?
>
> all the best.
> Sean

[Juan Jimenez]

"Capt.Doug" > wrote in message
...
> >"Juan Jimenez" wrote in message >
>>so I bought myself a pressure multiplier (I was worried about hot
>> starts). It's a simple SMC unit that mechanically multiplies air pressure
> by
>> 4x, up to 280-300 psi or so. I have a converted 100# propane tank to hold
>> the air, which I pressurize to 280 and regulate to 145 psi. It works
>> GREAT
>> though it takes a while to do its job.
>
> With the air multiplier, you have the pressure, but do you still have the
> volume (cubic feet per minute)?
>
>> I'm concerned that when I dump the air into
>> the engine, the drop in pressure is cooling the air so much that it
>> interferes with the start process and the fuel mist doesn't light up like
> it
>> did in the past.
>
> APUs are designed to start at altitude where the temperature may be minus
> 40C.

The Microturbo Couguar is not an APU. It's a turbojet engine designed to
power small aircraft or drones.

Juan

[Juan Jimenez]

"Colibri" > wrote in message
...
>
> My thought is that the air impinges on the turbine wheel, not the
> compressor. So that cold air has nothing to do with lighting the mixture.

But the cold air goes through the engine after it hits the turbine wheel...

[Sean Trost]

Juan
I believe that N1 is related to the velocity of the airstream
introduced. Which is good. But not related to the ignition problem
Now You have said that you have an excellent spark and good fuel. the
only other thing you need for start is the right airflow. or volumn.
Dont know about your engine specifically but most everything else runs
right around 14 to 1 on the ratio wise.

I can get a HIGH volume low pressure spray gun to flow 10 psi but it
still wont spray anything unless i get the volmume behind it to work
properly. Not that this has anything to do with jet engines or
cumbustion but to illustrate that velocity and volumn are not
interchangable.

Sean


Juan Jimenez wrote:
> Yes, the volume is more than enough, as evidenced by N1 reaching close to
> 15%.
>
> Juan
>
> "Sean Trost" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>Juan,
>>Cooling would take one leg of the combustion triangle out of the picture.
>>I dare say it would take a large amount of cooling to do so.
>>
>>I suspect that a more plausable reason would be the fuel air ratio being
>>outside the LEL.
>>
>>The manual calles for 145 psi and 1.21 lbs volumn. are you getting the
>>volumn with the setup you are using ?
>>
>>all the best.
>>Sean
>
>
>
>

[Vaughn]

"Richard Riley" > wrote in message
...
> Propane tanks are normally rated for 250 LBS.
>
> That rating is normally at 120 degrees. 280 PSI air is probably a lot
> hotter than that. It's been too long since I've done ideal gas law
> equations, but I seem to remember 250 psi air getting to 300 or 350 F.
> At a temperature higher than it's rating, a tank is weaker than it's
> rating.

You lost me here. In my experience, 250# air can be any temperature you
want it to be.

Vaughn

[Gord Beaman]

"Vaughn" > wrote:

>
>"Richard Riley" > wrote in message
...
>> Propane tanks are normally rated for 250 LBS.
>>
>> That rating is normally at 120 degrees. 280 PSI air is probably a lot
>> hotter than that. It's been too long since I've done ideal gas law
>> equations, but I seem to remember 250 psi air getting to 300 or 350 F.
>> At a temperature higher than it's rating, a tank is weaker than it's
>> rating.
>
> You lost me here. In my experience, 250# air can be any temperature you
>want it to be.
>
>Vaughn
>
Sure...heat is merely a byproduct of compressing it and varies
with the rate of compression.
--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

[Juan Jimenez]

I understand what you are saying. The way I see it, the proof that there is
sufficient volume is that the engine is turning up to the desired RPM needed
before putting fuel into the mixture.

I think, from testing I did today, that I have a stuck fuel control spill
valve. I hope it's not that, but I think that's what it is.

"Sean Trost" > wrote in message
m...
> Juan
> I believe that N1 is related to the velocity of the airstream introduced.
> Which is good. But not related to the ignition problem
> Now You have said that you have an excellent spark and good fuel. the
> only other thing you need for start is the right airflow. or volumn. Dont
> know about your engine specifically but most everything else runs right
> around 14 to 1 on the ratio wise.
>
> I can get a HIGH volume low pressure spray gun to flow 10 psi but it still
> wont spray anything unless i get the volmume behind it to work properly.
> Not that this has anything to do with jet engines or cumbustion but to
> illustrate that velocity and volumn are not interchangable.
>
> Sean
>
>
> Juan Jimenez wrote:
>> Yes, the volume is more than enough, as evidenced by N1 reaching close to
>> 15%.
>>
>> Juan
>>
>> "Sean Trost" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>
>>>Juan,
>>>Cooling would take one leg of the combustion triangle out of the picture.
>>>I dare say it would take a large amount of cooling to do so.
>>>
>>>I suspect that a more plausable reason would be the fuel air ratio being
>>>outside the LEL.
>>>
>>>The manual calles for 145 psi and 1.21 lbs volumn. are you getting the
>>>volumn with the setup you are using ?
>>>
>>>all the best.
>>>Sean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

[Juan Jimenez]

That's because the comment is classic Riley Clueless, Vaughn. Modern 100#
propane tanks are rated for _at least_ 250# _working_ pressure. Each tank
must be tested two twice that working pressure and one out of every 500 is
tested to four times working pressure. Pressure relief valves for cooking
gas tanks are usually set for 375 psi. The compressed air that goes into the
tank doesn't get nearly as hot as his overactive imagination says it does.
In fact, the outside of the tank is quite cool to the touch at 280 psi.

"Vaughn" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Richard Riley" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Propane tanks are normally rated for 250 LBS.
>>
>> That rating is normally at 120 degrees. 280 PSI air is probably a lot
>> hotter than that. It's been too long since I've done ideal gas law
>> equations, but I seem to remember 250 psi air getting to 300 or 350 F.
>> At a temperature higher than it's rating, a tank is weaker than it's
>> rating.
>
> You lost me here. In my experience, 250# air can be any temperature
> you
> want it to be.
>
> Vaughn
>
>

[Juan Jimenez]

"Richard Riley" > wrote in message
...

<mercy snip>

> I will be filtering this thread.

All of that BS for one, solitary piece of useful information...

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Juan Jimenez says...
>
>
>"Richard Riley" > wrote in message
...
>
><mercy snip>
>
>> I will be filtering this thread.
>
>All of that BS for one, solitary piece of useful information...


Gee Richard that's what we say about ANN ..lots of BS and little info LOL!!!
Sorry couldn't help my self.Back to lurk mode

Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret

[Jim Carriere]

Sean Trost wrote:
> Juan
> I believe that N1 is related to the velocity of the airstream
> introduced. Which is good. But not related to the ignition problem
> Now You have said that you have an excellent spark and good fuel. the
> only other thing you need for start is the right airflow. or volumn.
> Dont know about your engine specifically but most everything else runs
> right around 14 to 1 on the ratio wise.

Actually, jets are a different beast from piston engines. Between
about 25:1 and 50:1 is normal, even for lightoff fuel flow.
Stoichiometrically correct combustion is too hot.

[Juan Jimenez]

"ChuckSlusarczyk" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Juan Jimenez
> says...
>>
>>
>>"Richard Riley" > wrote in message
...
>>
>><mercy snip>
>>
>>> I will be filtering this thread.
>>
>>All of that BS for one, solitary piece of useful information...
>
> Gee Richard that's what we say about ANN ..lots of BS and little info
> LOL!!!
> Sorry couldn't help my self.Back to lurk mode

Monkey see, monkey do. I guess it's true that retards feed from each other.

[Juan Jimenez]

"Richard Riley" > wrote in message
...
>
> All he has to do is google "propane air pressure rating fatigue" and
> he'll get most of what I gave him in my post. As obnoxious as he is,
> his kids should grow up with a father.

All the results of that search that are relevant to using them as air tanks
talk about 20# thin metal LP tanks, you dunce, not about 100# steel tanks.

Do us all a favor and go play with your legos or something. Look, there's
Chuck in the sandbox! Go play! Shoo!

[Sean Trost]

I stand corrected. Thanks Jim. Learned somthing new everyday.
Sean

Jim Carriere wrote:
> Sean Trost wrote:
>
>> Juan
>> I believe that N1 is related to the velocity of the airstream
>> introduced. Which is good. But not related to the ignition problem
>> Now You have said that you have an excellent spark and good fuel. the
>> only other thing you need for start is the right airflow. or volumn.
>> Dont know about your engine specifically but most everything else runs
>> right around 14 to 1 on the ratio wise.
>
>
> Actually, jets are a different beast from piston engines. Between about
> 25:1 and 50:1 is normal, even for lightoff fuel flow. Stoichiometrically
> correct combustion is too hot.
>

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Juan Jimenez says...

>Monkey see, monkey do. I guess it's true that retards feed from each other.

Guess your right Hmmm let's see jim zoom campbell and jaun jaminiz (spelled
wrong on purpose) :-)

See ya

Chuck (I designed my own plane ,did you?) S RAH-15/1 ret

[John Ammeter]

On 15 Jan 2005 09:18:40 -0800, ChuckSlusarczyk
> wrote:

>In article >, Juan Jimenez says...
>
>>Monkey see, monkey do. I guess it's true that retards feed from each other.
>
>Guess your right Hmmm let's see jim zoom campbell and jaun jaminiz (spelled
>wrong on purpose) :-)
>
>See ya
>
>Chuck (I designed my own plane ,did you?) S RAH-15/1 ret


You noticed that, too....??

John

[Juan Jimenez]

"ChuckSlusarczyk" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Juan Jimenez
> says...
>
>>Monkey see, monkey do. I guess it's true that retards feed from each
>>other.
>
> Guess your right Hmmm let's see jim zoom campbell and jaun jaminiz
> (spelled
> wrong on purpose) :-)

Gee, what can I say, only a putz like you would consider it a privilege to
brag about his unilingual ignorance, to the point that you think it
necessary to point out that you can't spell, in English _or_ Spanish.

> Chuck (I designed my own plane ,did you?) S RAH-15/1 ret

Juan (I pay my son for his work, don't have any drug addicts in my family
and no one in my family has ever had his children taken away by the
state....) :-)

[Colibri]

Sean Trost wrote:
> I stand corrected. Thanks Jim. Learned somthing new everyday.
> Sean
>
> Jim Carriere wrote:
>> Sean Trost wrote:
>>
>>> Juan
>>> I believe that N1 is related to the velocity of the airstream
>>> introduced. Which is good. But not related to the ignition problem
>>> Now You have said that you have an excellent spark and good fuel. the
>>> only other thing you need for start is the right airflow. or volumn.
>>> Dont know about your engine specifically but most everything else runs
>>> right around 14 to 1 on the ratio wise.
>>
>>
>> Actually, jets are a different beast from piston engines. Between about
>> 25:1 and 50:1 is normal, even for lightoff fuel flow. Stoichiometrically
>> correct combustion is too hot.

50:1 would be the total airflow:fuel ratio through the engine core. Of
those 50 parts air, 15 are primary air that mixes with the fuel for
stoichiometrically correct combustion.

The other 35 parts are secondary air (not to be confused with a turbofan's
bypass air, which doesn't pass through the core). Some secondary air passes
around the exterior of the combustion chamber liner to cool it, and some
passes through holes into the chamber to shape the flame and hold it away
from the liner wall to prevent damage.

None of this is impingement starting air, which hits the turbine blades and
then goes right out the exhaust duct.

[Jim Carriere]

Colibri wrote:
> Sean Trost wrote:
>
>> I stand corrected. Thanks Jim. Learned somthing new everyday.
>> Sean
>>
>> Jim Carriere wrote:
>>
>>> Sean Trost wrote:
>>>
>>>> Juan
>>>> I believe that N1 is related to the velocity of the airstream
>>>> introduced. Which is good. But not related to the ignition problem
>>>> Now You have said that you have an excellent spark and good fuel.
>>>> the only other thing you need for start is the right airflow. or
>>>> volumn. Dont know about your engine specifically but most everything
>>>> else runs right around 14 to 1 on the ratio wise.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Actually, jets are a different beast from piston engines. Between
>>> about 25:1 and 50:1 is normal, even for lightoff fuel flow.
>>> Stoichiometrically correct combustion is too hot.
>
>
> 50:1 would be the total airflow:fuel ratio through the engine core. Of
> those 50 parts air, 15 are primary air that mixes with the fuel for
> stoichiometrically correct combustion.
>
> The other 35 parts are secondary air (not to be confused with a
> turbofan's bypass air, which doesn't pass through the core). Some
> secondary air passes around the exterior of the combustion chamber liner
> to cool it, and some passes through holes into the chamber to shape the
> flame and hold it away from the liner wall to prevent damage.

This is a better explanation than I gave, but I'll elaborate further
to this that while technically only 15 of those parts of air are
"burned" (use to support combustion), and the secondary air begins
mixing with the flame very close to where the fuel nozzle(s) are
located. Depending on the design of the engine, some or even all the
secondary air flowing around the combustor liner mixes with the
primary air/flame before entering the turbine.

Complex engines will route some of the secondary air through tiny
cooling passages in the turbine blades themselves (I'm pretty sure
you, Colibri, understand this, I'm speaking to the group and not
trying to insult you), but I strongly doubt this is the case with
Juan's engine.

> None of this is impingement starting air, which hits the turbine blades
> and then goes right out the exhaust duct.

This is an important distinction, so is the difference between
secondary and bypass.

[Gord Beaman]

Colibri > wrote:

>Sean Trost wrote:
>> I stand corrected. Thanks Jim. Learned somthing new everyday.
>> Sean
>>
>> Jim Carriere wrote:
>>> Sean Trost wrote:
>>>
>>>> Juan
>>>> I believe that N1 is related to the velocity of the airstream
>>>> introduced. Which is good. But not related to the ignition problem
>>>> Now You have said that you have an excellent spark and good fuel. the
>>>> only other thing you need for start is the right airflow. or volumn.
>>>> Dont know about your engine specifically but most everything else runs
>>>> right around 14 to 1 on the ratio wise.
>>>
>>>
>>> Actually, jets are a different beast from piston engines. Between about
>>> 25:1 and 50:1 is normal, even for lightoff fuel flow. Stoichiometrically
>>> correct combustion is too hot.
>
>50:1 would be the total airflow:fuel ratio through the engine core. Of
>those 50 parts air, 15 are primary air that mixes with the fuel for
>stoichiometrically correct combustion.
>
>The other 35 parts are secondary air (not to be confused with a turbofan's
>bypass air, which doesn't pass through the core). Some secondary air passes
>around the exterior of the combustion chamber liner to cool it, and some
>passes through holes into the chamber to shape the flame and hold it away
>from the liner wall to prevent damage.
>
>None of this is impingement starting air, which hits the turbine blades and
>then goes right out the exhaust duct.

Of course...very much above (or below) 13 or 14 to 1 and the
mixture won't burn...certainly it won't at 25 to 1.

--

-Gord.
(use gordon in email)

[Juan Jimenez]

"Jim Carriere" > wrote in message
...
>
> This is a better explanation than I gave, but I'll elaborate further to
> this that while technically only 15 of those parts of air are "burned"
> (use to support combustion), and the secondary air begins mixing with the
> flame very close to where the fuel nozzle(s) are located. Depending on
> the design of the engine, some or even all the secondary air flowing
> around the combustor liner mixes with the primary air/flame before
> entering the turbine.
>
> Complex engines will route some of the secondary air through tiny cooling
> passages in the turbine blades themselves (I'm pretty sure you, Colibri,
> understand this, I'm speaking to the group and not trying to insult you),
> but I strongly doubt this is the case with Juan's engine.

You are correct. My engine is not a turbofan, it is a turbojet, circa 1973.

>> None of this is impingement starting air, which hits the turbine blades
>> and then goes right out the exhaust duct.
>
> This is an important distinction, so is the difference between secondary
> and bypass.

[Juan Jimenez]

That was YOU in the truck???!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

"Richard Riley" > wrote in message
...
> On 15 Jan 2005 09:18:40 -0800, ChuckSlusarczyk
> > wrote:
>
> :Guess your right Hmmm let's see jim zoom campbell and jaun jaminiz
> (spelled
> :wrong on purpose) :-)
>
> Chuck, I'm told Juan doesn't trust Zoom to test fly his airplane, so
> Juan's getting in some practice time before he takes it up for first
> flight.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/4fkgz

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Juan Jimenez says...

>Gee, what can I say, only a putz like you would consider it a privilege to
>brag about his unilingual ignorance, to the point that you think it
>necessary to point out that you can't spell, in English _or_ Spanish.

Bet I speak more spanish then you do Polish .
>
>> Chuck (I designed my own plane ,did you?) S RAH-15/1 ret
>
>Juan (I pay my son for his work, don't have any drug addicts in my family

Are you saying I do? OK macho man Prove it!! Names please.


>and no one in my family has ever had his children taken away by the
>state....) :-)

Once again don't beat around the bush and make vague accusations say it plain
and prove it. Who in my family and which kids? Names please or are you afraid if
your wrong you'll be getting a letter from my lawyer? Come on,be a man stand
behind what you say.If your right then you've nothing to fear ...but if your
wrong......

Chuck (I can't believe how much like zoom jaun is) S RAH-15/1 ret

[Chuckslusarczyk]

In article >, Richard Riley says...
>
>On 15 Jan 2005 09:18:40 -0800, ChuckSlusarczyk
> wrote:
>
>:Guess your right Hmmm let's see jim zoom campbell and jaun jaminiz (spelled
>:wrong on purpose) :-)
>
>Chuck, I'm told Juan doesn't trust Zoom to test fly his airplane, so
>Juan's getting in some practice time before he takes it up for first
>flight.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/4fkgz

Looks like one of his better landings LOL!! at least the wings were leve!


See ya

Chuck (aim between the trees )S RAH-15/1 ret

[Grantland]

Why don't you two get a room eh? ****ing kweers.


Shawie Trost > simpered:

>I stand corrected. Thanks Jim. Learned somthing new everyday.
>Sean
>
>Jim Carriere wrote:
>> Sean Trost wrote:
>>
>>> Juan
>>> I believe that N1 is related to the velocity of the airstream
>>> introduced. Which is good. But not related to the ignition problem
>>> Now You have said that you have an excellent spark and good fuel. the
>>> only other thing you need for start is the right airflow. or volumn.
>>> Dont know about your engine specifically but most everything else runs
>>> right around 14 to 1 on the ratio wise.
>>
>>
>> Actually, jets are a different beast from piston engines. Between about
>> 25:1 and 50:1 is normal, even for lightoff fuel flow. Stoichiometrically
>> correct combustion is too hot.
>>
>

[Juan Jimenez]

Gee, what's wrong, Chuckieboy? Does it disturb you when I tell you the
things I do and what hasn't happened in my family? Why is that, Chuckie?

You just don't know when to shut your trap, do you. Some things never
change, like the fact it's all about the credibility you don't have.

"ChuckSlusarczyk" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Juan Jimenez
> says...
>
>>Gee, what can I say, only a putz like you would consider it a privilege to
>>brag about his unilingual ignorance, to the point that you think it
>>necessary to point out that you can't spell, in English _or_ Spanish.
>
> Bet I speak more spanish then you do Polish .
>>
>>> Chuck (I designed my own plane ,did you?) S RAH-15/1 ret
>>
>>Juan (I pay my son for his work, don't have any drug addicts in my family
>
> Are you saying I do? OK macho man Prove it!! Names please.
>
>
>>and no one in my family has ever had his children taken away by the
>>state....) :-)
>
> Once again don't beat around the bush and make vague accusations say it
> plain
> and prove it. Who in my family and which kids? Names please or are you
> afraid if
> your wrong you'll be getting a letter from my lawyer? Come on,be a man
> stand
> behind what you say.If your right then you've nothing to fear ...but if
> your
> wrong......
>
> Chuck (I can't believe how much like zoom jaun is) S RAH-15/1 ret
>

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Juan Jimenez says...
>
>Gee, what's wrong, Chuckieboy? Does it disturb you when I tell you the
>things I do and what hasn't happened in my family? Why is that, Chuckie?
>
>You just don't know when to shut your trap, do you. Some things never
>change, like the fact it's all about the credibility you don't have.

Just prove what you say. Which kids of mine were taken by the state and which
are the drug addicts? Names,places ,Date etc... This isn't about my credibility
but yours.Enquring minds want to know.

Chuck S

[Juan Jimenez]

<yank the chain, watch the monkey dance>

I'm surprised at what comes out of your mind when I mention what I've done
and what's not happened in my family. I think I'll just sit back and watch
what else comes out. <chuckle>

"ChuckSlusarczyk" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Juan Jimenez says...
>>
>>Gee, what's wrong, Chuckieboy? Does it disturb you when I tell you the
>>things I do and what hasn't happened in my family? Why is that, Chuckie?
>>
>>You just don't know when to shut your trap, do you. Some things never
>>change, like the fact it's all about the credibility you don't have.
>
> Just prove what you say. Which kids of mine were taken by the state and
> which
> are the drug addicts? Names,places ,Date etc... This isn't about my
> credibility
> but yours.Enquring minds want to know.
>
> Chuck S
>

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Juan Jimenez says...
>
><yank the chain, watch the monkey dance>
>
>I'm surprised at what comes out of your mind when I mention what I've done
>and what's not happened in my family. I think I'll just sit back and watch
>what else comes out. <chuckle>

Just prove what you say,names ,facts,dates ,locations, court records etc.


Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret

[AL Mills]

ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
> In article >, Juan Jimenez says...
>
>><yank the chain, watch the monkey dance>
>>
>>I'm surprised at what comes out of your mind when I mention what I've done
>>and what's not happened in my family. I think I'll just sit back and watch
>>what else comes out. <chuckle>
>
>
> Just prove what you say,names ,facts,dates ,locations, court records etc.
>
>
> Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret
>
Seems to me it's the monkey pulling the chain...
AL

[Juan Jimenez]

"AL Mills" > wrote in message
...

> Seems to me it's the monkey pulling the chain...
> AL

But of course, Chuckie's tried to pull on it, fersure... but he just can't
seem to get loose, so off he goes into his dance routine. <chuckle>

[Corky Scott]

On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 21:39:24 -0400, "Juan Jimenez"
> wrote:

>
>"AL Mills" > wrote in message
...
>
>> Seems to me it's the monkey pulling the chain...
>> AL
>
>But of course, Chuckie's tried to pull on it, fersure... but he just can't
>seem to get loose, so off he goes into his dance routine. <chuckle>

Translation: Juan has been asked point blank to back up his
allegations with names and dates and so far has responded only with
insults. My memory is this is typical behavior from him.

What can we discern from this? Only that he has no information he can
risk making public because he knows it's false and Chuck would have
his case for libel. And he knows, no question about it, Chuck will
bring it.

Juan, I'll bet I'm not the only person in RAH who see's things this
way.

What I can't understand is why you continue to do it. You seem
smarter than to engage in such behavior.

Corky Scott

[Juan Jimenez]

"Corky Scott" > wrote in message
...

<mercy snip>

> What I can't understand is why you continue to do it. You seem smarter
> than to engage in such behavior.

You're not capable of understanding what happens because you are not capable
of measuring different people against the same ruler, Corky, and that's got
a name: hypocrisy. It's that simple.

I didn't start this, and I have already proven that beyond any shadow of a
doubt (and no, I don't give a damn who saw the thread or who didn't, or who
wants to see it again, go look it up yourself on Google)... but as long as
the Chucksteak steps up to the plate to get his gourd beat to a pulp every
time he opens his mouth to publicly attack people purely because he doesn't
like who they associate with, I'll be more than happy to oblige by yanking
the chain and watching the UpChuck Monkey skeletons dance. :)

If he doesn't like it, tough ****. That's a personal problem best discussed
with his shrink, who will probably tell him the story about the man who
stopped beating his head against the wall when he found out how good it felt
to stop.

[Scott Skylane]

Juan Jimenez wrote:

/ranting snipped/

> If he doesn't like it, tough ****. That's a personal problem best discussed
> with his shrink, who will probably tell him the story about the man who
> stopped beating his head against the wall when he found out how good it felt
> to stop.
>
>
>
>
Whoa, speaking of personal problems...

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Juan Jimenez says...

>You're not capable of understanding what happens because you are not capable
>of measuring different people against the same ruler, Corky, and that's got
>a name: hypocrisy. It's that simple.

I'll say this...of all the people on RAH Corky is the last one I would accuse
of hypocrisy. But then one just has to consider the source of the remark and his
credibility and the credibility of who he writes for.

>
>I didn't start this, and I have already proven that beyond any shadow of a
>doubt (and no, I don't give a damn who saw the thread or who didn't, or who
>wants to see it again, go look it up yourself on Google)...

I think I said something about jaun being a toady for zoom .A little thin
skinned about the truth?

> but as long as
>the Chucksteak steps up to the plate to get his gourd beat to a pulp every
>time he opens his mouth to publicly attack people purely because he doesn't
>like who they associate with,

I guess if it makes you secure to think I was beat to a pulp ...enjoy. But like
your hero zoom you give yourself way too much credit. Speaking of credit, been
paid by zoom lately? :-)

I don't like you because you approve and condone a guy who is a liar,(I got
proof)who charges for ads that companies didn't sign contracts for then bills
them (I got proof) calls the employers of people who disagree with him and tries
to get them fired(I got proof) passes himself off as a test pilot ,didn't pay
his writers and ad salesman(I got proof) etc.,etc., remember I have boxes and
boxes of Tony's records . Things like court transcripts ,police records a list
of all zooms lawsuits. Unlike you I can prove anything I say.
You can say what you want but it's all about credibility .Your credibility which
you squandered away,zoom's credibility which he squandered away and ANN's
credibility which both of you are squandering away.

You better keep writing for zoom because unlike others who left zoom you'll
never write for a legitimate aviation publication.You'd be surprised who lurks
on this list and what they think of you and zoom. By the way I had a nice talk
with Tim Kerns today. Very interesting.....

(Snip of childish blabber.)


Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret


"monkeys are cuter than toadies and not as slimey" ..one eyed Louie the pirate

[sleepy6]

In article >,
says...
>
>In article >, Juan Jimenez says..
>.
>
>>You're not capable of understanding what happens because you are not
>capable
>>of measuring different people against the same ruler, Corky, and that
>'s got
>>a name: hypocrisy. It's that simple.
>
>I'll say this...of all the people on RAH Corky is the last one I woul
>d accuse
>of hypocrisy. But then one just has to consider the source of the rema
>rk and his
>credibility and the credibility of who he writes for.
>
>>
>>I didn't start this, and I have already proven that beyond any shadow
> of a
>>doubt (and no, I don't give a damn who saw the thread or who didn't,
>or who
>>wants to see it again, go look it up yourself on Google)...
>
>I think I said something about jaun being a toady for zoom .A little t
>hin
>skinned about the truth?
>
>> but as long as
>>the Chucksteak steps up to the plate to get his gourd beat to a pulp
>every
>>time he opens his mouth to publicly attack people purely because he d
>oesn't
>>like who they associate with,
>
>I guess if it makes you secure to think I was beat to a pulp ...enjoy.
> But like
>your hero zoom you give yourself way too much credit. Speaking of cre
>dit, been
>paid by zoom lately? :-)
>
>I don't like you because you approve and condone a guy who is a liar,(
>I got
>proof)who charges for ads that companies didn't sign contracts for the
>n bills
>them (I got proof) calls the employers of people who disagree with him
> and tries
>to get them fired(I got proof) passes himself off as a test pilot ,did
>n't pay
>his writers and ad salesman(I got proof) etc.,etc., remember I have bo
>xes and
>boxes of Tony's records . Things like court transcripts ,police record
>s a list
>of all zooms lawsuits. Unlike you I can prove anything I say.
>You can say what you want but it's all about credibility .Your credibi
>lity which
>you squandered away,zoom's credibility which he squandered away and AN
>N's
>credibility which both of you are squandering away.
>
>You better keep writing for zoom because unlike others who left zoom y
>ou'll
>never write for a legitimate aviation publication.You'd be surprised w
>ho lurks
>on this list and what they think of you and zoom. By the way I had a n
>ice talk
>with Tim Kerns today. Very interesting.....
>
>(Snip of childish blabber.)
>
>
>Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret
>
>
> "monkeys are cuter than toadies and not as slimey" ..one eyed Louie t
>he pirate

Juan has been spouting the same crap for a long time now but he has yet
to produce a single thing to back it up. Sooner or later he has to
produce something to back it up or the world knows what a liar he is.
It reached that point a long time ago and he is so stupid that he
hasn't figured it out yet.

Maybe that's how he gets his paycheck out of mooz. Yowser massa I is
gonna bad mouf dat nasty Chuck agin today ifen ya giv me da money ya
owes me.

[Juan Jimenez]

"ChuckSlusarczyk" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Juan Jimenez says...
>
> I think I said something about jaun being a toady for zoom .A little thin
> skinned about the truth?

What is it that you think you know about truth? :)

> I guess if it makes you secure to think I was beat to a pulp ...enjoy. But
> like
> your hero zoom you give yourself way too much credit. Speaking of credit,
> been
> paid by zoom lately? :-)

He pays me just like I pay my son for his chores, right on time. Is that
your conscience asking? :-) right back.

> I don't like you because you approve and condone a guy who is a liar

That must be why you hate yourself and your brownnosing friends so much,
bucko.

> You better keep writing for zoom because unlike others who left zoom
> you'll
> never write for a legitimate aviation publication.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! What are those, size 22 blinders? <chuckle> That's
funny!

> You'd be surprised who lurks on this list and what they think of you and
> zoom. By the way I had a nice talk
> with Tim Kerns today. Very interesting.....

Oooo, I'm impressed... I do the same every time I see him. <chuckle>

[Juan Jimenez]

"Richard Riley" > wrote in message
...
>
> Juan's been acting a little desperate lately, like trying to sell the
> jet before it's even flown. Not a way to maximize your ROI.

How would you know. Seeing as you can't tell the difference between an
aluminum and a steel cylinder, I doubt you have the brainpower to figure
that out. :)

> Zoom doesn't pay much - aviation writing doesn't pay much, and Zoom is
> at the bottom of the pay scale, one notch up from a local EAA chapter
> newsletter.

Did you write for Jim? You must be sore that he paid you what you were
worth, instead of what you thought you were worth. :)

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Richard Riley says...

>Juan's been acting a little desperate lately, like trying to sell the
>jet before it's even flown. Not a way to maximize your ROI.
>

Wonder if he'll loop roll and spin it? LOL!! There's a big demand for a BD -5 at
airshows...not!!

>Zoom doesn't pay much - aviation writing doesn't pay much, and Zoom is
>at the bottom of the pay scale, one notch up from a local EAA chapter
>newsletter. You can't make a reasonable living writing for Zoom. But
>the way Juan's acting - maybe that's what he's living on. It's not
>like there's much demand for programmers in PR.

I have a pretty good idea what zoomy used to pay writers and ad people and I
also know that after a while he would not pay them and when they asked for their
money he would threaten a lawsuit against them.
Think I'll look up zooms records and see if he ever gave 1099's or paid
employment taxes.

>
>Now, I'm sure he's going to chime in and tell us that he has more
>money than God, just like Jordan. So maybe he can free up $50 and buy
>a real air bottle, that will hold 2000 psi, so he can get the engine
>started - and get out of our hair once and for all.

I bet by now Jordon owns Nevada LOL!!!

See ya

Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Juan Jimenez says...
>
>What is it that you think you know about truth? :)

I know I can prove what I say, you never do . Names ,Dates,Court records etc..
please.


>He pays me just like I pay my son for his chores, right on time. Is that
>your conscience asking? :-) right back.

Meaning what?? Names ,dates,facts, please....

>> I don't like you because you approve and condone a guy who is a liar
>
>That must be why you hate yourself and your brownnosing friends so much,
>bucko.

That statement made no sense what so ever ..dupa


>> You better keep writing for zoom because unlike others who left zoom
>> you'll
>> never write for a legitimate aviation publication.
>
>HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! What are those, size 22 blinders? <chuckle> That's
>funny!

Another unenlightening statement. What legitimate aviation publications do you
write for that I can't see ? Names ,dates etc...

>
>> You'd be surprised who lurks on this list and what they think of you and
>> zoom. By the way I had a nice talk
>> with Tim Kerns today. Very interesting.....
>
>Oooo, I'm impressed... I do the same every time I see him. <chuckle>


Gee another illogical statement. That's 3 . How can you see him? your in PR and
he's not. Better get a grip.


Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret

Credibility it was always about credibility.....chuck s

[Juan Jimenez]

"ChuckSlusarczyk" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Juan Jimenez says...
>>
>>What is it that you think you know about truth? :)
>
> I know I can prove what I say, you never do.

Sure you can, like you can prove Jim took pics of you at OSH after changing
lenses, when everyone in the trailer knows we only had two lenses, and I had
the other one on the D60. <chuckle>

>>He pays me just like I pay my son for his chores, right on time. Is that
>>your conscience asking? :-) right back.
>
> Meaning what?? Names ,dates,facts, please....

Is that your conscience asking? :)

> Another unenlightening statement. What legitimate aviation publications do
> you
> write for that I can't see ?

Who cares what you can or cannot see? Put that paper sack back on your head!
:)

It's all about the credibility you never had. :)

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Juan Jimenez says...


>
>Sure you can, like you can prove Jim took pics of you at OSH after changing
>lenses, when everyone in the trailer knows we only had two lenses, and I had
>the other one on the D60. <chuckle>

Hmm seems zoom had those pics he took on the ANN page . Tell ya what just for
the hell of it I'll admit I might have been wrong about zoom changing lenses
Lets just say I was.I find it hard to believe that a high priced outfit like ANN
has only 2 lenses but I'll concede that he didn't change lenses. But he did take
the pictures and we saw him do it .Didn't you see us laughing and waving at him
in the picture? By the way what color was the lens he used? I have a photo of
him and I know the color of the lens do you?

Now that I conceded the lens caper .How about you telling me the names of my
kids you claim are drug addicts and had their kids taken away by social
services. Names ,dates, court records ect... Prove your credibility..


Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret

[Juan Jimenez]

"ChuckSlusarczyk" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>Sure you can, like you can prove Jim took pics of you at OSH after
>>changing
>>lenses, when everyone in the trailer knows we only had two lenses, and I
>>had
>>the other one on the D60. <chuckle>
>
> Hmm seems zoom had those pics he took on the ANN page . Tell ya what just
> for
> the hell of it I'll admit I might have been wrong about zoom changing
> lenses
> Lets just say I was.I find it hard to believe that a high priced outfit
> like ANN
> has only 2 lenses but I'll concede that he didn't change lenses. But he
> did take
> the pictures and we saw him do it .Didn't you see us laughing and waving
> at him
> in the picture? By the way what color was the lens he used? I have a photo
> of
> him and I know the color of the lens do you?

Two cameras, two lenses, Jim had a very nice white large stabilized lens, I
had the small lens. There's no need for more when there's a third-party pro
photog covering the show.

> Now that I conceded the lens caper .How about you telling me the names of
> my
> kids you claim are drug addicts and had their kids taken away by social
> services. Names ,dates, court records ect... Prove your credibility..

Amazing how worked up you get about the things that happen and don't happen
in my family, Chuck.

I'm impressed with the step you've taken, though. It shows that there's hope
for you yet, even if it only took you nearly four years to make this much
progress, and even if you did it just "for the hell of it." Now that you've
figured out how to let go of one issue, perhaps you'll make the leap and let
go of _all_ the issues you think you have against me.

Could it be that you are smart enough to realize that attacking and/or
insulting me (or anyone else) out of the blue in a public forum simply
because you don't like the people with whom I associate is a very bad idea?
If you are not sure of the answer to this, go to ANN and search for your
name in the archives, and see if anything that comes up in the search has my
name on it, in the byline or anywhere else... A clue, Sherlock.

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Juan Jimenez says...

>> Now that I conceded the lens caper .How about you telling me the names of
>> my
>> kids you claim are drug addicts and had their kids taken away by social
>> services. Names ,dates, court records ect... Prove your credibility..
>
>Amazing how worked up you get about the things that happen and don't happen
>in my family, Chuck.

As usual you avoid an answer or fail to understand the question. I could care
less about things that happen or didn't happen in your family. You said that
members of my family had kids taken away by social workers and were drug addicts
etc. So once again I ask, prove it!! Names, dates etc. But like zoom you won't
so once again proving your lack of credibility. But maybe in your new job you
won't need any.

>Could it be that you are smart enough to realize that attacking and/or
>insulting me (or anyone else) out of the blue in a public forum simply
>because you don't like the people with whom I associate is a very bad idea?
>If you are not sure of the answer to this, go to ANN and search for your
>name in the archives, and see if anything that comes up in the search has my
>name on it, in the byline or anywhere else... A clue, Sherlock.

I'm not playing games with you if you have something to say ,say it.


Chuck S RAH-15 ret

[Juan Jimenez]

"ChuckSlusarczyk" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Juan Jimenez
> says...
>
>>> Now that I conceded the lens caper .How about you telling me the names
>>> of
>>> my
>>> kids you claim are drug addicts and had their kids taken away by social
>>> services. Names ,dates, court records ect... Prove your credibility..
>>
>>Amazing how worked up you get about the things that happen and don't
>>happen
>>in my family, Chuck.
>
> As usual you avoid an answer or fail to understand the question. I could
> care
> less about things that happen or didn't happen in your family. You said
> that
> members of my family had kids taken away by social workers and were drug
> addicts
> etc.

Now you're reverting to your lying ways, Chuck. Again. How predictable.

>>Could it be that you are smart enough to realize that attacking and/or
>>insulting me (or anyone else) out of the blue in a public forum simply
>>because you don't like the people with whom I associate is a very bad
>>idea?
>>If you are not sure of the answer to this, go to ANN and search for your
>>name in the archives, and see if anything that comes up in the search has
>>my
>>name on it, in the byline or anywhere else... A clue, Sherlock.
>
> I'm not playing games with you if you have something to say ,say it.

Games? <chuckle> Well, in that case, never mind, Chuck. You're just too
dense for this subtle "game."

Juan

[AL Mills]

ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
> In article >, Juan Jimenez says...
>
>
>>>Now that I conceded the lens caper .How about you telling me the names of
>>>my
>>>kids you claim are drug addicts and had their kids taken away by social
>>>services. Names ,dates, court records ect... Prove your credibility..
>>
>>Amazing how worked up you get about the things that happen and don't happen
>>in my family, Chuck.
>
>
> As usual you avoid an answer or fail to understand the question. I could care
> less about things that happen or didn't happen in your family. You said that
> members of my family had kids taken away by social workers and were drug addicts
> etc. So once again I ask, prove it!! Names, dates etc. But like zoom you won't
> so once again proving your lack of credibility. But maybe in your new job you
> won't need any.
>
>
>>Could it be that you are smart enough to realize that attacking and/or
>>insulting me (or anyone else) out of the blue in a public forum simply
>>because you don't like the people with whom I associate is a very bad idea?
>>If you are not sure of the answer to this, go to ANN and search for your
>>name in the archives, and see if anything that comes up in the search has my
>>name on it, in the byline or anywhere else... A clue, Sherlock.
>
>
> I'm not playing games with you if you have something to say ,say it.
>
>
> Chuck S RAH-15 ret
>
Could someone direct me to the
rec.aviation.homebuilt.age8andup newsgroup?

[Juan Jimenez]

"AL Mills" > wrote in message
...
> ChuckSlusarczyk wrote:
>> In article >, Juan Jimenez
>> says...
>>
>>
>>>>Now that I conceded the lens caper .How about you telling me the names
>>>>of my
>>>>kids you claim are drug addicts and had their kids taken away by social
>>>>services. Names ,dates, court records ect... Prove your credibility..
>>>
>>>Amazing how worked up you get about the things that happen and don't
>>>happen in my family, Chuck.
>>
>>
>> As usual you avoid an answer or fail to understand the question. I could
>> care
>> less about things that happen or didn't happen in your family. You said
>> that
>> members of my family had kids taken away by social workers and were drug
>> addicts
>> etc. So once again I ask, prove it!! Names, dates etc. But like zoom you
>> won't
>> so once again proving your lack of credibility. But maybe in your new job
>> you
>> won't need any.
>>
>>
>>>Could it be that you are smart enough to realize that attacking and/or
>>>insulting me (or anyone else) out of the blue in a public forum simply
>>>because you don't like the people with whom I associate is a very bad
>>>idea? If you are not sure of the answer to this, go to ANN and search for
>>>your name in the archives, and see if anything that comes up in the
>>>search has my name on it, in the byline or anywhere else... A clue,
>>>Sherlock.
>>
>>
>> I'm not playing games with you if you have something to say ,say it.
>>
>>
>> Chuck S RAH-15 ret
> Could someone direct me to the rec.aviation.homebuilt.age8andup newsgroup?

Relax, Al, it will be over soon. Chuck has finally come to an understanding
that attacking people in newsgroups the way he's been doing for years is
wrong. He's just too "steadfast" to admit it. :)

[AL Mills]

>Juan Jimenez wrote:

> Relax, Al, it will be over soon. Chuck has finally come to an understanding
> that attacking people in newsgroups the way he's been doing for years is
> wrong. He's just too "steadfast" to admit it. :)
>
>
>

Juan, my Daddy used to tell me that it takes two
children to squabble. One to start it and one to
keep it going. Now, which one are you?
AL

[ChuckSlusarczyk]

In article >, Juan Jimenez says...

>Relax, Al, it will be over soon.

It ain't over.

> Chuck has finally come to an understanding
>that attacking people in newsgroups the way he's been doing for years is
>wrong.

Wrong again.


> He's just too "steadfast" to admit it. :)

First honest thing you've said ,I am steadfast.

Chuck S RAH-15/1 ret

[Juan Jimenez]

"AL Mills" > wrote in message
...
> >Juan Jimenez wrote:
>
>> Relax, Al, it will be over soon. Chuck has finally come to an
>> understanding that attacking people in newsgroups the way he's been doing
>> for years is wrong. He's just too "steadfast" to admit it. :)
>>
> Juan, my Daddy used to tell me that it takes two children to squabble. One
> to start it and one to keep it going. Now, which one are you?
> AL

Neither. Once Chuck learns his lesson and stops coming back for more, it
will stop. :)

[Juan Jimenez]

"ChuckSlusarczyk" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, Juan Jimenez
> says...
>
>>Relax, Al, it will be over soon.
>
> It ain't over.

Spoken like a true masochist. :)

>> Chuck has finally come to an understanding
>>that attacking people in newsgroups the way he's been doing for years is
>>wrong.
>
> Wrong again.

Ah, but you do know it's wrong, you just haven't realized it? Or you don't
know it's wrong but have realized it?

Something tells me you don't have a clue what you think is wrong. :)

>> He's just too "steadfast" to admit it. :)
>
> First honest thing you've said ,I am steadfast.

More like quite literally pigheaded, IMO. <chuckle>