OLC 2011

[dhaluza]

The new OLC season has started. There are a few rule changes everyone
should know about.

The FAI-OLC score is now a 30% bonus on the OLC Classic score, and
this combined score is now called OLC-Plus.

For the OLC classic score, legs 5 & 6 are no longer devalued. All six
legs are scored @100%.

There is now a Barron Hilton Challenge for flights on an
electronically pre-declared triangular course.

Most importantly, the submission deadline has changed to 48 hours
after landing (not midnight Tuesday as before).

For more info, go to the OLC web site:

http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/

Doug Haluza
SSA-OLC Admin

[Mike the Strike]

On Oct 18, 5:00*pm, dhaluza > wrote:
> The new OLC season has started. There are a few rule changes everyone
> should know about.
>
> The FAI-OLC score is now a 30% bonus on the OLC Classic score, and
> this combined score is now called OLC-Plus.
>
> For the OLC classic score, legs 5 & 6 are no longer devalued. All six
> legs are scored @100%.
>
> There is now a Barron Hilton Challenge for flights on an
> electronically pre-declared triangular course.
>
> Most importantly, the submission deadline has changed to 48 hours
> after landing (not midnight Tuesday as before).
>
> For more info, go to the OLC web site:
>
> http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/
>
> Doug Haluza
> SSA-OLC Admin

Been asleep for the last week, Doug?

There are two threads on this already.

Mike

[Mike the Strike]

On Oct 18, 6:38*pm, Mike the Strike > wrote:
> On Oct 18, 5:00*pm, dhaluza > wrote:
>
>
>
> > The new OLC season has started. There are a few rule changes everyone
> > should know about.
>
> > The FAI-OLC score is now a 30% bonus on the OLC Classic score, and
> > this combined score is now called OLC-Plus.
>
> > For the OLC classic score, legs 5 & 6 are no longer devalued. All six
> > legs are scored @100%.
>
> > There is now a Barron Hilton Challenge for flights on an
> > electronically pre-declared triangular course.
>
> > Most importantly, the submission deadline has changed to 48 hours
> > after landing (not midnight Tuesday as before).
>
> > For more info, go to the OLC web site:
>
> >http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/
>
> > Doug Haluza
> > SSA-OLC Admin
>
> Been asleep for the last week, Doug?
>
> There are two threads on this already.
>
> Mike

Just a gentle ribbing - but there were a few questions about the
impact on USA soaring, particularly the new 48 hour rule and the
restriction on aerotows longer than 15km, which will impact a number
of mainly western sites.

Perhaps you could review these and forward our concerns to the OLC
organizers?

Mike

[Greg Arnold[_2_]]

On 10/19/2010 5:39 AM, Mike the Strike wrote:

>>
>>> Doug Haluza
>>> SSA-OLC Admin
>>
>> Been asleep for the last week, Doug?
>>
>> There are two threads on this already.
>>
>> Mike
>
> Just a gentle ribbing - but there were a few questions about the
> impact on USA soaring, particularly the new 48 hour rule and the
> restriction on aerotows longer than 15km, which will impact a number
> of mainly western sites.
>
> Perhaps you could review these and forward our concerns to the OLC
> organizers?
>
> Mike

I really don't understand the reason for the 48 hour rule. Most pilots
post immediately, because if they delay for a day none of their friends
will see their flight (since few of us look at posts from a day or two
earlier). Therefore, prompt posting will naturally occur without any
OLC rule on the matter. The OLC has to cut off postings at some point,
I suppose, but why not a week?

I also don't understand the reason for the 15km rule, but suspect that
it may be a poor attempt to solve a real problem. I do know that where
I fly there is never any lift within 15km of the airport. We have to
tow to the hills/mountains, which is about 20km. If the airport was
instead located at the base of the hills/mountains, the 15km rule would
be no problem. So my inability to compete in the OLC is a function of
the decision made decades ago about where to locate the airport. I
don't understand why airport location is relevant to the OLC.

[Wayne Paul]

"Greg Arnold" > wrote in message ...
> On 10/19/2010 5:39 AM, Mike the Strike wrote:
>
>
> I really don't understand the reason for the 48 hour rule. Most pilots
> post immediately, because if they delay for a day none of their friends
> will see their flight (since few of us look at posts from a day or two
> earlier). Therefore, prompt posting will naturally occur without any
> OLC rule on the matter. The OLC has to cut off postings at some point,
> I suppose, but why not a week?
>
> I also don't understand the reason for the 15km rule, but suspect that
> it may be a poor attempt to solve a real problem. I do know that where
> I fly there is never any lift within 15km of the airport. We have to
> tow to the hills/mountains, which is about 20km. If the airport was
> instead located at the base of the hills/mountains, the 15km rule would
> be no problem. So my inability to compete in the OLC is a function of
> the decision made decades ago about where to locate the airport. I
> don't understand why airport location is relevant to the OLC.
>

I've been thinking about the 48 hr rule and locations that it may affect. The first place/location that came to mind as being impacted is the annual Willamette Valley Soaring Club's (http://www.wvsc.org) trip to the Alvord Desert. The nearest village is Fields, OR population 86. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fields,_Oregon) To get to Fields from the soaring site one must drive about 35 to 40 miles on an unpaved road.

I find both the posting time and tow-distance rules prejudicial /exclusionary in nature. I wonder if there is/or could be a process for granting waivers for isolated locations and airfield located distances in excess of 15km away from lift.

Wayne
http://www.soaridaho.com

[Greg Arnold[_2_]]

On 10/19/2010 9:22 AM, Wayne Paul wrote:

>>
>> I also don't understand the reason for the 15km rule, but suspect that
>> it may be a poor attempt to solve a real problem. I do know that where
>> I fly there is never any lift within 15km of the airport. We have to
>> tow to the hills/mountains, which is about 20km. If the airport was
>> instead located at the base of the hills/mountains, the 15km rule would
>> be no problem. So my inability to compete in the OLC is a function of
>> the decision made decades ago about where to locate the airport. I
>> don't understand why airport location is relevant to the OLC.
>>
>
> I've been thinking about the 48 hr rule and locations that it may affect. The first place/location that came to mind as being impacted is the annual Willamette Valley Soaring Club's (http://www.wvsc.org) trip to the Alvord Desert. The nearest village is Fields, OR population 86. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fields,_Oregon) To get to Fields from the soaring site one must drive about 35 to 40 miles on an unpaved road.
>
> I find both the posting time and tow-distance rules prejudicial /exclusionary in nature. I wonder if there is/or could be a process for granting waivers for isolated locations and airfield located distances in excess of 15km away from lift.
>
> Wayne
> http://www.soaridaho.com


As a follow-up, it might be useful to explain why there is no lift
around many of the gliderports in California. It is because the Pacific
Ocean is very cold along the coast (basically, the ocean currents bring
down cold water from up north), and this cools the air and creates an
almost permanent inversion in many valleys, even those far from the
ocean. For example, the ocean air has to follow a path of approximately
200 km before it reaches the soaring site at Williams (in the Sacramento
Valley), yet that is enough to make the airport area unsoarable. Pilots
at Williams must tow to hills/mountains that are more than 30 kilometers
away.

I would think that there must be similar problems in Europe?

[Wayne Paul]

"Greg Arnold" > wrote in message ...
> On 10/19/2010 9:22 AM, Wayne Paul wrote:
>
>>>
>>> I also don't understand the reason for the 15km rule, but suspect that
>>> it may be a poor attempt to solve a real problem. I do know that where
>>> I fly there is never any lift within 15km of the airport. We have to
>>> tow to the hills/mountains, which is about 20km. If the airport was
>>> instead located at the base of the hills/mountains, the 15km rule would
>>> be no problem. So my inability to compete in the OLC is a function of
>>> the decision made decades ago about where to locate the airport. I
>>> don't understand why airport location is relevant to the OLC.
>>>
>>
>> I've been thinking about the 48 hr rule and locations that it may affect. The first place/location that came to mind as being impacted is the annual Willamette Valley Soaring Club's (http://www.wvsc.org) trip to the Alvord Desert. The nearest village is Fields, OR population 86. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fields,_Oregon) To get to Fields from the soaring site one must drive about 35 to 40 miles on an unpaved road.
>>
>> I find both the posting time and tow-distance rules prejudicial /exclusionary in nature. I wonder if there is/or could be a process for granting waivers for isolated locations and airfield located distances in excess of 15km away from lift.
>>
>> Wayne
>> http://www.soaridaho.com
>
>
> As a follow-up, it might be useful to explain why there is no lift
> around many of the gliderports in California. It is because the Pacific
> Ocean is very cold along the coast (basically, the ocean currents bring
> down cold water from up north), and this cools the air and creates an
> almost permanent inversion in many valleys, even those far from the
> ocean. For example, the ocean air has to follow a path of approximately
> 200 km before it reaches the soaring site at Williams (in the Sacramento
> Valley), yet that is enough to make the airport area unsoarable. Pilots
> at Williams must tow to hills/mountains that are more than 30 kilometers
> away.
>
> I would think that there must be similar problems in Europe?

It has been a long time since I was in the Williams area; however, I do seem to remember that rice is one of the major agricultural crops. Rice production results in large flooded fields which are not conducive to thermal generation.

[Ramy]

On Oct 19, 10:33*am, "Wayne Paul" > wrote:
> "Greg Arnold" > wrote in ...
> > On 10/19/2010 9:22 AM, Wayne Paul wrote:
>
> >>> I also don't understand the reason for the 15km rule, but suspect that
> >>> it may be a poor attempt to solve a real problem. *I do know that where
> >>> I fly there is never any lift within 15km of the airport. *We have to
> >>> tow to the hills/mountains, which is about 20km. *If the airport was
> >>> instead located at the base of the hills/mountains, the 15km rule would
> >>> be no problem. *So my inability to compete in the OLC is a function of
> >>> the decision made decades ago about where to locate the airport. *I
> >>> don't understand why airport location is relevant to the OLC.
>
> >> I've been thinking about the 48 hr rule and locations that it may affect. *The first place/location that came to mind as being impacted is the annual Willamette Valley Soaring Club's (http://www.wvsc.org) trip to the Alvord Desert. The nearest village is Fields, OR population 86. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fields,_Oregon) *To get to Fields from the soaring site one must drive about 35 to 40 miles on an unpaved road.
>
> >> I find both the posting time and tow-distance rules prejudicial /exclusionary in nature. I wonder if there is/or could be a process for granting waivers for isolated locations and airfield located distances in excess of 15km away from lift.
>
> >> Wayne
> >>http://www.soaridaho.com
>
> > As a follow-up, it might be useful to explain why there is no lift
> > around many of the gliderports in California. *It is because the Pacific
> > Ocean is very cold along the coast (basically, the ocean currents bring
> > down cold water from up north), and this cools the air and creates an
> > almost permanent inversion in many valleys, even those far from the
> > ocean. *For example, the ocean air has to follow a path of approximately
> > 200 km before it reaches the soaring site at Williams (in the Sacramento
> > Valley), yet that is enough to make the airport area unsoarable. *Pilots
> > at Williams must tow to hills/mountains that are more than 30 kilometers
> > away.
>
> > I would think that there must be similar problems in Europe?
>
> It has been a long time since I was in the Williams area; however, I do seem to remember that rice is one of the major agricultural crops. *Rice production results in large flooded fields which are not conducive to thermal generation.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Perhaps it is possible to customize some of these rules per country.
If we had an effective SSA-OLC committe who is more involved with OLC
and actually follows developments in OLC, and questions on RAS, then
we could know the answers. Yes, I am aware they are just volounteers
and have other things to do, so not putting any blame. And yes, I
would volounteer if I was asked...

Ramy

[Grider Pirate]

On Oct 19, 12:08*pm, Ramy > wrote:
> On Oct 19, 10:33*am, "Wayne Paul" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Greg Arnold" > wrote in ...
> > > On 10/19/2010 9:22 AM, Wayne Paul wrote:
>
> > >>> I also don't understand the reason for the 15km rule, but suspect that
> > >>> it may be a poor attempt to solve a real problem. *I do know that where
> > >>> I fly there is never any lift within 15km of the airport. *We have to
> > >>> tow to the hills/mountains, which is about 20km. *If the airport was
> > >>> instead located at the base of the hills/mountains, the 15km rule would
> > >>> be no problem. *So my inability to compete in the OLC is a function of
> > >>> the decision made decades ago about where to locate the airport. *I
> > >>> don't understand why airport location is relevant to the OLC.
>
> > >> I've been thinking about the 48 hr rule and locations that it may affect. *The first place/location that came to mind as being impacted is the annual Willamette Valley Soaring Club's (http://www.wvsc.org) trip to the Alvord Desert. The nearest village is Fields, OR population 86. (http://en..wikipedia.org/wiki/Fields,_Oregon) *To get to Fields from the soaring site one must drive about 35 to 40 miles on an unpaved road.
>
> > >> I find both the posting time and tow-distance rules prejudicial /exclusionary in nature. I wonder if there is/or could be a process for granting waivers for isolated locations and airfield located distances in excess of 15km away from lift.
>
> > >> Wayne
> > >>http://www.soaridaho.com
>
> > > As a follow-up, it might be useful to explain why there is no lift
> > > around many of the gliderports in California. *It is because the Pacific
> > > Ocean is very cold along the coast (basically, the ocean currents bring
> > > down cold water from up north), and this cools the air and creates an
> > > almost permanent inversion in many valleys, even those far from the
> > > ocean. *For example, the ocean air has to follow a path of approximately
> > > 200 km before it reaches the soaring site at Williams (in the Sacramento
> > > Valley), yet that is enough to make the airport area unsoarable. *Pilots
> > > at Williams must tow to hills/mountains that are more than 30 kilometers
> > > away.
>
> > > I would think that there must be similar problems in Europe?
>
> > It has been a long time since I was in the Williams area; however, I do seem to remember that rice is one of the major agricultural crops. *Rice production results in large flooded fields which are not conducive to thermal generation.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Perhaps it is possible to customize some of these rules per country.
> If we had an effective SSA-OLC committe who is more involved with OLC
> and actually follows developments in OLC, and questions on RAS, then
> we could know the answers. Yes, I am aware they are just volounteers
> and have other things to do, so not putting any blame. And yes, I
> would volounteer if I was asked...
>
> Ramy- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Dear Mr. Yanetz,
As a loyal SSA member, I respectfully request your assistance in
steering the OLC toward a more rational rule set. Does that count???
Sincerely
Uncle Fuzzy

[dhaluza]

On Oct 18, 9:38*pm, Mike the Strike > wrote:
> On Oct 18, 5:00*pm, dhaluza > wrote:
>
> Been asleep for the last week, Doug?
>
> There are two threads on this already.
>
> Mike

I guess I missed it. Hard to keep track of everything with the signal
to noise ratio here ;-)

I saw the article on the changes in Aerokurier, but my German is not
that good. I asked for an English summary before the season started,
but I didn't get one. So I had to claim a few flights on my own to
some first hand experience.

Unfortunately, the OLC team does not consult with us before making the
rule changes, so we are always behind the curve.

For the remote site problem, keep in mind that you can claim through
the OLC PDA interface on many mobile devices. If you have a SD logger,
and a mico SD card in an SD adapter, you can just take the micro SD
card from your logger to your phone to make a claim as long as you
have cell coverage, a web browser, and a data plan.

As far as the remote tow problem, I'm not sure how that rule came
about, and if we can get it suspended before the OLC League season
starts. I'll push for that.

Doug

[5Z]

On Oct 19, 3:32*pm, dhaluza > wrote:
> For the remote site problem, keep in mind that you can claim through
> the OLC PDA interface on many mobile devices. If you have a SD logger,
> and a mico SD card in an SD adapter, you can just take the micro SD
> card from your logger to your phone to make a claim as long as you
> have cell coverage, a web browser, and a data plan.

It's often hard enough to get a voice connection in huge portions of
the western US, let alone a reliable data link.

So, if one takes a long tow of more than 15km from airport A and
releases within 15km of airport B, can the flight then be claimed as
launching from B?

What if the glider and towplane do a touch & go at airport B? Yes,
I've done T&G on tow.

-Tom

[Peter Scholz[_2_]]

Am 20.10.2010 05:54, 5Z wrote:
> On Oct 19, 3:32 pm, > wrote:
>> For the remote site problem, keep in mind that you can claim through
>> the OLC PDA interface on many mobile devices. If you have a SD logger,
>> and a mico SD card in an SD adapter, you can just take the micro SD
>> card from your logger to your phone to make a claim as long as you
>> have cell coverage, a web browser, and a data plan.
>
> It's often hard enough to get a voice connection in huge portions of
> the western US, let alone a reliable data link.
>
> So, if one takes a long tow of more than 15km from airport A and
> releases within 15km of airport B, can the flight then be claimed as
> launching from B?

No, that will not be covered by the rule.

>
> What if the glider and towplane do a touch& go at airport B? Yes,
> I've done T&G on tow.
>

Yes, that will be counted as take-off from airport B.

--
Peter Scholz
ASW24 JE

[Gliderphud]

On Oct 18, 6:00*pm, dhaluza > wrote:
> The new OLC season has started. There are a few rule changes everyone
> should know about.
>
> The FAI-OLC score is now a 30% bonus on the OLC Classic score, and
> this combined score is now called OLC-Plus.
>
> For the OLC classic score, legs 5 & 6 are no longer devalued. All six
> legs are scored @100%.
>
> There is now a Barron Hilton Challenge for flights on an
> electronically pre-declared triangular course.
>
> Most importantly, the submission deadline has changed to 48 hours
> after landing (not midnight Tuesday as before).
>
> For more info, go to the OLC web site:
>
> http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/
>
> Doug Haluza
> SSA-OLC Admin

So has the OLC become antisemitic, anti-Christian and anti all
religions other than Islam? The rules have become draconian and geared
toward only those that have Saturday and Sunday free to fly, fly from
their local glider port with a house thermal within 15 km and have
instant access to the Internet. Yes they may be supported by
advertisers, but the advertisers are there because there is traffic to
the site. It is time for a new OLC site that listens to the pilots
and creates rules that are more inclusive and reasonable.

Boycott the current OLC!

A few suggestions:

1. At least three days to submit a file, four would be better
2. Drop the 15 km rule for non-motor gliders.
3. Make the league at least three days (or best two out of three),
i.e. Friday through Sunday so those of all faiths have an equal chance
to compete.