AMS-Flight - Unethical and Unprofessional Business Practices

[VH_VH]

I am making this posting in the hope of saving someone from going
through what I have been going through and to ensure that it gets the
coverage it deserves amongst the gliding community. It revolves around
a business transaction between myself and Ales Cebavs, the managing
director of AMS-Flight in Slovenia.

It began at the start of January 2010 when I made a Euro 3165.27
(about $5100 Australian dollars at the time) bank transfer to AMS-
Flight on behalf of my local sailplane repair company, for a
horizontal stabilizer for my LS3. This was after receiving a proforma
invoice which confirmed that AMS-Flight agreed to the supply of this
part. The terms and conditions required payment up front which I did
in good faith.

In mid-March, it was discovered that the wrong horizontal stabilizer
had been manufactured. Fortunately this was discovered before AMS-
Flight shipped the product although I have no proof that the wrong
part was actually manufactured. I was then advised by Ales that he
would need to try and find the correct mould needed for the
manufacture.

On 21 June 2010, I was advised by Ales that it would not be possible
to provide the horizontal stabilizer and that my money would be
refunded. I immediately provided Ales with my account details so that
the refund could be processed. After that, all went quiet. He refused
to respond to any of my e-mails requesting the status of my refund.

After two frustrating months of trying to recover my money, on 18
August I made a posting here (http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/
soaring/12723/AMS-Flight-Out-of-business). It had the desired effect
as suddenly Ales was communicating again and he was not happy,
insisting that I remove that posting before he would consider
returning "part" of my money. On 8 October I issued him with a
deadline of 15 October to return my money in full which he chose to
ignore. He seems to have lost sight of the fact that he, and AMS-
Flight, have engaged in a contract with me to provide a part. Any
legitimate and self-respecting company would refund the price in full
if it was unable to meet that contract. Ales seems to think that he
and AMS-Flight are above that and have no responsibility to do the
right and legal thing. He is in direct breach of several articles in
the Slovenian Consumer Protection Act and the Slovenian Trade Act and
I have recently reported this to the Slovenian authorities.

What really amazes me is that here is a supposedly legitimate
manufacturing company, whose relatively small customer base is
primarily made up of the gliding community, that shows no respect for
that customer base and is quite willing to keep any money paid to it
regardless of the outcome. No business can survive these days with
that kind of attitude. Maybe one day Ales might be kind enough to
offer an explanation for his irrational behaviour.

I must point out that these comments are in no way intended to reflect
badly on those companies listed as distributors on the AMS-Flight
website. They are independent of AMS-Flight and I am certain they have
their own issues with Ales.

It would be very interesting to hear from others who have had a run-in
with Ales and AMS-Flight. If there are enough of us then maybe we can
bring some collective pressure to bear, whether that be in the form of
a class action lawsuit or simply reporting these illegal and criminal
activities to the Slovenian authorities. In any case, I will continue
to fight to have Ales return my money. As an individual I certainly
cannot afford to ignore someone who is effectively attempting to steal
over AUD$5000 from me.

Bob

[Dave Springford]

My club has had similar problems with AMS-flight.

On the 1st of March 2009 we sent a wire transfer to AMS for the
purchase of canopy gas struts for a modification to our DG-505 and for
a tail skid for the club's LS4.

After waiting for over a year and receiving no response from Ales at
AMS, I involved the Canadian representative for AMS, who communicated
with Ales, he agreed to refund the money for the tail skid, (as after
a year of waiting we sourced another) and send the gas struts for the
505.

It is now Oct 2010 - 18 months later, and we still do not have the
parts or the money refunded.

As of about April or May, even his Canadian distributor was not
getting answers to any email inquiries.

The moral here - If you need parts from AMS - don't send them money
until you get your parts.

I would be happy to provide details in support of some sort of action
against AMS.

[PK]

On Oct 19, 4:02*pm, VH_VH > wrote:
> I am making this posting in the hope of saving someone from going
> through what I have been going through and to ensure that it gets the
> coverage it deserves amongst the gliding community. It revolves around
> a business transaction between myself and Ales Cebavs, the managing
> director of AMS-Flight in Slovenia.
>
> It began at the start of January 2010 when I made a Euro 3165.27
> (about $5100 Australian dollars at the time) bank transfer to AMS-
> Flight on behalf of my local sailplane repair company, for a
> horizontal stabilizer for my LS3. This was after receiving a proforma
> invoice which confirmed that AMS-Flight agreed to the supply of this
> part. The terms and conditions required payment up front which I did
> in good faith.
>
> In mid-March, it was discovered that the wrong horizontal stabilizer
> had been manufactured. Fortunately this was discovered before AMS-
> Flight shipped the product although I have no proof that the wrong
> part was actually manufactured. I was then advised by Ales that he
> would need to try and find the correct mould needed for the
> manufacture.
>
> On 21 June 2010, I was advised by Ales that it would not be possible
> to provide the horizontal stabilizer and that my money would be
> refunded. I immediately provided Ales with my account details so that
> the refund could be processed. After that, all went quiet. He refused
> to respond to any of my e-mails requesting the status of my refund.
>
> After two frustrating months of trying to recover my money, on 18
> August I made a posting here (http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/
> soaring/12723/AMS-Flight-Out-of-business). It had the desired effect
> as suddenly Ales was communicating again and he was not happy,
> insisting that I remove that posting before he would consider
> returning "part" of my money. On 8 October I issued him with a
> deadline of 15 October to return my money in full which he chose to
> ignore. He seems to have lost sight of the fact that he, and AMS-
> Flight, have engaged in a contract with me to provide a part. Any
> legitimate and self-respecting company would refund the price in full
> if it was unable to meet that contract. Ales seems to think that he
> and AMS-Flight are above that and have no responsibility to do the
> right and legal thing. He is in direct breach of several articles in
> the Slovenian Consumer Protection Act and the Slovenian Trade Act and
> I have recently reported this to the Slovenian authorities.
>
> What really amazes me is that here is a supposedly legitimate
> manufacturing company, whose relatively small customer base is
> primarily made up of the gliding community, that shows no respect for
> that customer base and is quite willing to keep any money paid to it
> regardless of the outcome. No business can survive these days with
> that kind of attitude. Maybe one day Ales might be kind enough to
> offer an explanation for his irrational behaviour.
>
> I must point out that these comments are in no way intended to reflect
> badly on those companies listed as distributors on the AMS-Flight
> website. They are independent of AMS-Flight and I am certain they have
> their own issues with Ales.
>
> It would be very interesting to hear from others who have had a run-in
> with Ales and AMS-Flight. If there are enough of us then maybe we can
> bring some collective pressure to bear, whether that be in the form of
> a class action lawsuit or simply reporting these illegal and criminal
> activities to the Slovenian authorities. In any case, I will continue
> to fight to have Ales return my money. As an individual I certainly
> cannot afford to ignore someone who is effectively attempting to steal
> over AUD$5000 from me.
>
> Bob

The moral of the story.....Pay with a credit card and you may have
some recourse. PeterK

[VH_VH]

On Oct 20, 1:07*pm, PK > wrote:
> On Oct 19, 4:02*pm, VH_VH > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I am making this posting in the hope of saving someone from going
> > through what I have been going through and to ensure that it gets the
> > coverage it deserves amongst the gliding community. It revolves around
> > a business transaction between myself and Ales Cebavs, the managing
> > director of AMS-Flight in Slovenia.
>
> > It began at the start of January 2010 when I made a Euro 3165.27
> > (about $5100 Australian dollars at the time) bank transfer to AMS-
> > Flight on behalf of my local sailplane repair company, for a
> > horizontal stabilizer for my LS3. This was after receiving a proforma
> > invoice which confirmed that AMS-Flight agreed to the supply of this
> > part. The terms and conditions required payment up front which I did
> > in good faith.
>
> > In mid-March, it was discovered that the wrong horizontal stabilizer
> > had been manufactured. Fortunately this was discovered before AMS-
> > Flight shipped the product although I have no proof that the wrong
> > part was actually manufactured. I was then advised by Ales that he
> > would need to try and find the correct mould needed for the
> > manufacture.
>
> > On 21 June 2010, I was advised by Ales that it would not be possible
> > to provide the horizontal stabilizer and that my money would be
> > refunded. I immediately provided Ales with my account details so that
> > the refund could be processed. After that, all went quiet. He refused
> > to respond to any of my e-mails requesting the status of my refund.
>
> > After two frustrating months of trying to recover my money, on 18
> > August I made a posting here (http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/
> > soaring/12723/AMS-Flight-Out-of-business). It had the desired effect
> > as suddenly Ales was communicating again and he was not happy,
> > insisting that I remove that posting before he would consider
> > returning "part" of my money. On 8 October I issued him with a
> > deadline of 15 October to return my money in full which he chose to
> > ignore. He seems to have lost sight of the fact that he, and AMS-
> > Flight, have engaged in a contract with me to provide a part. Any
> > legitimate and self-respecting company would refund the price in full
> > if it was unable to meet that contract. Ales seems to think that he
> > and AMS-Flight are above that and have no responsibility to do the
> > right and legal thing. He is in direct breach of several articles in
> > the Slovenian Consumer Protection Act and the Slovenian Trade Act and
> > I have recently reported this to the Slovenian authorities.
>
> > What really amazes me is that here is a supposedly legitimate
> > manufacturing company, whose relatively small customer base is
> > primarily made up of the gliding community, that shows no respect for
> > that customer base and is quite willing to keep any money paid to it
> > regardless of the outcome. No business can survive these days with
> > that kind of attitude. Maybe one day Ales might be kind enough to
> > offer an explanation for his irrational behaviour.
>
> > I must point out that these comments are in no way intended to reflect
> > badly on those companies listed as distributors on the AMS-Flight
> > website. They are independent of AMS-Flight and I am certain they have
> > their own issues with Ales.
>
> > It would be very interesting to hear from others who have had a run-in
> > with Ales and AMS-Flight. If there are enough of us then maybe we can
> > bring some collective pressure to bear, whether that be in the form of
> > a class action lawsuit or simply reporting these illegal and criminal
> > activities to the Slovenian authorities. In any case, I will continue
> > to fight to have Ales return my money. As an individual I certainly
> > cannot afford to ignore someone who is effectively attempting to steal
> > over AUD$5000 from me.
>
> > Bob
>
> The moral of the story.....Pay with a credit card and you may have
> some recourse. PeterK- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks for your input and hindsight is always 20/20. However there is
more here than the issue of the method of payment and I was certainly
unaware of any credit card option with AMS. Looking at the bigger
picture, we as the gliding community see many manufacturers struggling
and coming up with new and creative ways to generate revenue or at
least cover their costs. The last thing we need is a corrupt operator
thrown into the mix and, as a matter of principle, we need to stick
together and make it known in no uncertain terms that this behaviour
is unacceptable, will not be tolerated, and that any money owed must
be returned to the rightful owner and without delay.

[Terry Hatton]

On Oct 20, 5:38*am, VH_VH > wrote:
> On Oct 20, 1:07*pm, PK > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 19, 4:02*pm, VH_VH > wrote:
>
> > > I am making this posting in the hope of saving someone from going
> > > through what I have been going through and to ensure that it gets the
> > > coverage it deserves amongst the gliding community. It revolves around
> > > a business transaction between myself and Ales Cebavs, the managing
> > > director of AMS-Flight in Slovenia.
>
> > > It began at the start of January 2010 when I made a Euro 3165.27
> > > (about $5100 Australian dollars at the time) bank transfer to AMS-
> > > Flight on behalf of my local sailplane repair company, for a
> > > horizontal stabilizer for my LS3. This was after receiving a proforma
> > > invoice which confirmed that AMS-Flight agreed to the supply of this
> > > part. The terms and conditions required payment up front which I did
> > > in good faith.
>
> > > In mid-March, it was discovered that the wrong horizontal stabilizer
> > > had been manufactured. Fortunately this was discovered before AMS-
> > > Flight shipped the product although I have no proof that the wrong
> > > part was actually manufactured. I was then advised by Ales that he
> > > would need to try and find the correct mould needed for the
> > > manufacture.
>
> > > On 21 June 2010, I was advised by Ales that it would not be possible
> > > to provide the horizontal stabilizer and that my money would be
> > > refunded. I immediately provided Ales with my account details so that
> > > the refund could be processed. After that, all went quiet. He refused
> > > to respond to any of my e-mails requesting the status of my refund.
>
> > > After two frustrating months of trying to recover my money, on 18
> > > August I made a posting here (http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/
> > > soaring/12723/AMS-Flight-Out-of-business). It had the desired effect
> > > as suddenly Ales was communicating again and he was not happy,
> > > insisting that I remove that posting before he would consider
> > > returning "part" of my money. On 8 October I issued him with a
> > > deadline of 15 October to return my money in full which he chose to
> > > ignore. He seems to have lost sight of the fact that he, and AMS-
> > > Flight, have engaged in a contract with me to provide a part. Any
> > > legitimate and self-respecting company would refund the price in full
> > > if it was unable to meet that contract. Ales seems to think that he
> > > and AMS-Flight are above that and have no responsibility to do the
> > > right and legal thing. He is in direct breach of several articles in
> > > the Slovenian Consumer Protection Act and the Slovenian Trade Act and
> > > I have recently reported this to the Slovenian authorities.
>
> > > What really amazes me is that here is a supposedly legitimate
> > > manufacturing company, whose relatively small customer base is
> > > primarily made up of the gliding community, that shows no respect for
> > > that customer base and is quite willing to keep any money paid to it
> > > regardless of the outcome. No business can survive these days with
> > > that kind of attitude. Maybe one day Ales might be kind enough to
> > > offer an explanation for his irrational behaviour.
>
> > > I must point out that these comments are in no way intended to reflect
> > > badly on those companies listed as distributors on the AMS-Flight
> > > website. They are independent of AMS-Flight and I am certain they have
> > > their own issues with Ales.
>
> > > It would be very interesting to hear from others who have had a run-in
> > > with Ales and AMS-Flight. If there are enough of us then maybe we can
> > > bring some collective pressure to bear, whether that be in the form of
> > > a class action lawsuit or simply reporting these illegal and criminal
> > > activities to the Slovenian authorities. In any case, I will continue
> > > to fight to have Ales return my money. As an individual I certainly
> > > cannot afford to ignore someone who is effectively attempting to steal
> > > over AUD$5000 from me.
>
> > > Bob
>
> > The moral of the story.....Pay with a credit card and you may have
> > some recourse. PeterK- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks for your input and hindsight is always 20/20. However there is
> more here than the issue of the method of payment and I was certainly
> unaware of any credit card option with AMS. Looking at the bigger
> picture, we as the gliding community see many manufacturers struggling
> and coming up with new and creative ways to generate revenue or at
> least cover their costs. The last thing we need is a corrupt operator
> thrown into the mix and, as a matter of principle, we need to stick
> together and make it known in no uncertain terms that this behaviour
> is unacceptable, will not be tolerated, and that any money owed must
> be returned to the rightful owner and without delay.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

In December 2009, I took my ASW20BL to slovenia from the UK for a
complete refinish. It was the first refinish AMS-Flight did for a UK
glider (im told). It was there for about 12 weeks. Communicatrion
was a little tricky but I later realised that there are not alot of
staff and Ales seems to do alot of the work himself and is not really
office bound. When we went to collect the glider, it wasnt quite
ready so wwe had to wait for about 12 hours while they finished it.
Ales and his staff worked really hard that day until very late at
night to get it finished. Overall, I am really pleased with the
refinish however, the wings have discoloured slightly and we are
currently waiting for a response from AMS Flight as to what they are
going to do about it under their 2 year warranty.

We are also still waiting for the new instrument panel to be returned
to us. Ales said he was going to try and modify it when it originally
didnt fit the glider.

I do not wish to influence people but all I would say about AMS Flight
is, they seem to do a good job, we paid all the money up front for the
regel due to VAT issues in the UK (to save money), and the job was
done when they said it would be. I cannot explain the communication
issue but Ales does speak good english so I would suggest telephoning
him rather than email!

Good luck

Regards

Terry Hatton

[VH_VH]

On Oct 21, 7:36*pm, Terry Hatton > wrote:
> On Oct 20, 5:38*am, VH_VH > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 20, 1:07*pm, PK > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 19, 4:02*pm, VH_VH > wrote:
>
> > > > I am making this posting in the hope of saving someone from going
> > > > through what I have been going through and to ensure that it gets the
> > > > coverage it deserves amongst the gliding community. It revolves around
> > > > a business transaction between myself and Ales Cebavs, the managing
> > > > director of AMS-Flight in Slovenia.
>
> > > > It began at the start of January 2010 when I made a Euro 3165.27
> > > > (about $5100 Australian dollars at the time) bank transfer to AMS-
> > > > Flight on behalf of my local sailplane repair company, for a
> > > > horizontal stabilizer for my LS3. This was after receiving a proforma
> > > > invoice which confirmed that AMS-Flight agreed to the supply of this
> > > > part. The terms and conditions required payment up front which I did
> > > > in good faith.
>
> > > > In mid-March, it was discovered that the wrong horizontal stabilizer
> > > > had been manufactured. Fortunately this was discovered before AMS-
> > > > Flight shipped the product although I have no proof that the wrong
> > > > part was actually manufactured. I was then advised by Ales that he
> > > > would need to try and find the correct mould needed for the
> > > > manufacture.
>
> > > > On 21 June 2010, I was advised by Ales that it would not be possible
> > > > to provide the horizontal stabilizer and that my money would be
> > > > refunded. I immediately provided Ales with my account details so that
> > > > the refund could be processed. After that, all went quiet. He refused
> > > > to respond to any of my e-mails requesting the status of my refund.
>
> > > > After two frustrating months of trying to recover my money, on 18
> > > > August I made a posting here (http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/
> > > > soaring/12723/AMS-Flight-Out-of-business). It had the desired effect
> > > > as suddenly Ales was communicating again and he was not happy,
> > > > insisting that I remove that posting before he would consider
> > > > returning "part" of my money. On 8 October I issued him with a
> > > > deadline of 15 October to return my money in full which he chose to
> > > > ignore. He seems to have lost sight of the fact that he, and AMS-
> > > > Flight, have engaged in a contract with me to provide a part. Any
> > > > legitimate and self-respecting company would refund the price in full
> > > > if it was unable to meet that contract. Ales seems to think that he
> > > > and AMS-Flight are above that and have no responsibility to do the
> > > > right and legal thing. He is in direct breach of several articles in
> > > > the Slovenian Consumer Protection Act and the Slovenian Trade Act and
> > > > I have recently reported this to the Slovenian authorities.
>
> > > > What really amazes me is that here is a supposedly legitimate
> > > > manufacturing company, whose relatively small customer base is
> > > > primarily made up of the gliding community, that shows no respect for
> > > > that customer base and is quite willing to keep any money paid to it
> > > > regardless of the outcome. No business can survive these days with
> > > > that kind of attitude. Maybe one day Ales might be kind enough to
> > > > offer an explanation for his irrational behaviour.
>
> > > > I must point out that these comments are in no way intended to reflect
> > > > badly on those companies listed as distributors on the AMS-Flight
> > > > website. They are independent of AMS-Flight and I am certain they have
> > > > their own issues with Ales.
>
> > > > It would be very interesting to hear from others who have had a run-in
> > > > with Ales and AMS-Flight. If there are enough of us then maybe we can
> > > > bring some collective pressure to bear, whether that be in the form of
> > > > a class action lawsuit or simply reporting these illegal and criminal
> > > > activities to the Slovenian authorities. In any case, I will continue
> > > > to fight to have Ales return my money. As an individual I certainly
> > > > cannot afford to ignore someone who is effectively attempting to steal
> > > > over AUD$5000 from me.
>
> > > > Bob
>
> > > The moral of the story.....Pay with a credit card and you may have
> > > some recourse. PeterK- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Thanks for your input and hindsight is always 20/20. However there is
> > more here than the issue of the method of payment and I was certainly
> > unaware of any credit card option with AMS. Looking at the bigger
> > picture, we as the gliding community see many manufacturers struggling
> > and coming up with new and creative ways to generate revenue or at
> > least cover their costs. The last thing we need is a corrupt operator
> > thrown into the mix and, as a matter of principle, we need to stick
> > together and make it known in no uncertain terms that this behaviour
> > is unacceptable, will not be tolerated, and that any money owed must
> > be returned to the rightful owner and without delay.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> In December 2009, I took my ASW20BL to slovenia from the UK for a
> complete refinish. *It was the first refinish AMS-Flight did for a UK
> glider (im told). *It was there for about 12 weeks. *Communicatrion
> was a little tricky but I later realised that there are not alot of
> staff and Ales seems to do alot of the work himself and is not really
> office bound. *When we went to collect the glider, it wasnt quite
> ready so wwe had to wait for about 12 hours while they finished it.
> Ales and his staff worked really hard that day until very late at
> night to get it finished. *Overall, I am really pleased with the
> refinish however, the wings have discoloured slightly and we are
> currently waiting for a response from AMS Flight as to what they are
> going to do about it under their 2 year warranty.
>
> We are also still waiting for the new instrument panel to be returned
> to us. *Ales said he was going to try and modify it when it originally
> didnt fit the glider.
>
> I do not wish to influence people but all I would say about AMS Flight
> is, they seem to do a good job, we paid all the money up front for the
> regel due to VAT issues in the UK (to save money), and the job was
> done when they said it would be. *I cannot explain the communication
> issue but Ales does speak good english so I would suggest telephoning
> him rather than email!
>
> Good luck
>
> Regards
>
> Terry Hatton- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I much appreciate your feedback in this thread. It adds some necessary
balance to the issue. I am certainly not questioning the quality of
the work that AMS-Flight does. The club I belong to owns a DG-505
manufactured by AMS-Flight and I must say that she is a very fine
machine.

From what you described, you had the good fortune to be present, in
person, whilst the glider was finished. The tyranny of distance did
not give me that luxury. And the tyranny of distance has made it
difficult to get my money back. I have made numerous phone calls, sent
even more e-mails, and have only been able to speak with Ales on a few
occasions, the outcome of which had been less than satisfactory. I
have to give credit to Marinka though. She seemed like such a lovely
lady who got stuck with the hard questions and handled it like a
champion. Sadly there has only been an answering machine lately. I
think the bottom line here is that Ales needs to come to the
realisation that he is running a business and a business cannot
continue with a growing queue of dissatisfied customers. Taking from
one of your points, he is probably far too much ‘hands-on’.

I wish you luck with your warranty and instrument panel. I sincerely
hope that you do not end up in the same situation.

[Juan]

You could always band together with other people who have had similar
problems, locate an attorney in Slovenia and arrange for legal
pressure to be put on the company. If Slovenia is part of the EU there
are other routes that can be explored.

On Oct 19, 7:02*pm, VH_VH > wrote:
> I am making this posting in the hope of saving someone from going
> through what I have been going through and to ensure that it gets the
> coverage it deserves amongst the gliding community. It revolves around
> a business transaction between myself and Ales Cebavs, the managing
> director of AMS-Flight in Slovenia.
>
> It began at the start of January 2010 when I made a Euro 3165.27
> (about $5100 Australian dollars at the time) bank transfer to AMS-
> Flight on behalf of my local sailplane repair company, for a
> horizontal stabilizer for my LS3. This was after receiving a proforma
> invoice which confirmed that AMS-Flight agreed to the supply of this
> part. The terms and conditions required payment up front which I did
> in good faith.
>
> In mid-March, it was discovered that the wrong horizontal stabilizer
> had been manufactured. Fortunately this was discovered before AMS-
> Flight shipped the product although I have no proof that the wrong
> part was actually manufactured. I was then advised by Ales that he
> would need to try and find the correct mould needed for the
> manufacture.
>
> On 21 June 2010, I was advised by Ales that it would not be possible
> to provide the horizontal stabilizer and that my money would be
> refunded. I immediately provided Ales with my account details so that
> the refund could be processed. After that, all went quiet. He refused
> to respond to any of my e-mails requesting the status of my refund.
>
> After two frustrating months of trying to recover my money, on 18
> August I made a posting here (http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/
> soaring/12723/AMS-Flight-Out-of-business). It had the desired effect
> as suddenly Ales was communicating again and he was not happy,
> insisting that I remove that posting before he would consider
> returning "part" of my money. On 8 October I issued him with a
> deadline of 15 October to return my money in full which he chose to
> ignore. He seems to have lost sight of the fact that he, and AMS-
> Flight, have engaged in a contract with me to provide a part. Any
> legitimate and self-respecting company would refund the price in full
> if it was unable to meet that contract. Ales seems to think that he
> and AMS-Flight are above that and have no responsibility to do the
> right and legal thing. He is in direct breach of several articles in
> the Slovenian Consumer Protection Act and the Slovenian Trade Act and
> I have recently reported this to the Slovenian authorities.
>
> What really amazes me is that here is a supposedly legitimate
> manufacturing company, whose relatively small customer base is
> primarily made up of the gliding community, that shows no respect for
> that customer base and is quite willing to keep any money paid to it
> regardless of the outcome. No business can survive these days with
> that kind of attitude. Maybe one day Ales might be kind enough to
> offer an explanation for his irrational behaviour.
>
> I must point out that these comments are in no way intended to reflect
> badly on those companies listed as distributors on the AMS-Flight
> website. They are independent of AMS-Flight and I am certain they have
> their own issues with Ales.
>
> It would be very interesting to hear from others who have had a run-in
> with Ales and AMS-Flight. If there are enough of us then maybe we can
> bring some collective pressure to bear, whether that be in the form of
> a class action lawsuit or simply reporting these illegal and criminal
> activities to the Slovenian authorities. In any case, I will continue
> to fight to have Ales return my money. As an individual I certainly
> cannot afford to ignore someone who is effectively attempting to steal
> over AUD$5000 from me.
>
> Bob

[VH_VH]

On Oct 28, 3:10*am, Juan > wrote:
> You could always band together with other people who have had similar
> problems, locate an attorney in Slovenia and arrange for legal
> pressure to be put on the company. If Slovenia is part of the EU there
> are other routes that can be explored.
>
> On Oct 19, 7:02*pm, VH_VH > wrote:
>
>
>
> > I am making this posting in the hope of saving someone from going
> > through what I have been going through and to ensure that it gets the
> > coverage it deserves amongst the gliding community. It revolves around
> > a business transaction between myself and Ales Cebavs, the managing
> > director of AMS-Flight in Slovenia.
>
> > It began at the start of January 2010 when I made a Euro 3165.27
> > (about $5100 Australian dollars at the time) bank transfer to AMS-
> > Flight on behalf of my local sailplane repair company, for a
> > horizontal stabilizer for my LS3. This was after receiving a proforma
> > invoice which confirmed that AMS-Flight agreed to the supply of this
> > part. The terms and conditions required payment up front which I did
> > in good faith.
>
> > In mid-March, it was discovered that the wrong horizontal stabilizer
> > had been manufactured. Fortunately this was discovered before AMS-
> > Flight shipped the product although I have no proof that the wrong
> > part was actually manufactured. I was then advised by Ales that he
> > would need to try and find the correct mould needed for the
> > manufacture.
>
> > On 21 June 2010, I was advised by Ales that it would not be possible
> > to provide the horizontal stabilizer and that my money would be
> > refunded. I immediately provided Ales with my account details so that
> > the refund could be processed. After that, all went quiet. He refused
> > to respond to any of my e-mails requesting the status of my refund.
>
> > After two frustrating months of trying to recover my money, on 18
> > August I made a posting here (http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/
> > soaring/12723/AMS-Flight-Out-of-business). It had the desired effect
> > as suddenly Ales was communicating again and he was not happy,
> > insisting that I remove that posting before he would consider
> > returning "part" of my money. On 8 October I issued him with a
> > deadline of 15 October to return my money in full which he chose to
> > ignore. He seems to have lost sight of the fact that he, and AMS-
> > Flight, have engaged in a contract with me to provide a part. Any
> > legitimate and self-respecting company would refund the price in full
> > if it was unable to meet that contract. Ales seems to think that he
> > and AMS-Flight are above that and have no responsibility to do the
> > right and legal thing. He is in direct breach of several articles in
> > the Slovenian Consumer Protection Act and the Slovenian Trade Act and
> > I have recently reported this to the Slovenian authorities.
>
> > What really amazes me is that here is a supposedly legitimate
> > manufacturing company, whose relatively small customer base is
> > primarily made up of the gliding community, that shows no respect for
> > that customer base and is quite willing to keep any money paid to it
> > regardless of the outcome. No business can survive these days with
> > that kind of attitude. Maybe one day Ales might be kind enough to
> > offer an explanation for his irrational behaviour.
>
> > I must point out that these comments are in no way intended to reflect
> > badly on those companies listed as distributors on the AMS-Flight
> > website. They are independent of AMS-Flight and I am certain they have
> > their own issues with Ales.
>
> > It would be very interesting to hear from others who have had a run-in
> > with Ales and AMS-Flight. If there are enough of us then maybe we can
> > bring some collective pressure to bear, whether that be in the form of
> > a class action lawsuit or simply reporting these illegal and criminal
> > activities to the Slovenian authorities. In any case, I will continue
> > to fight to have Ales return my money. As an individual I certainly
> > cannot afford to ignore someone who is effectively attempting to steal
> > over AUD$5000 from me.
>
> > Bob- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks Juan. That is actually in the plan however it is a last resort.
I am trying to give Ales and AMS-Flight every opportunity to resolve
this but if necessary, I will take court action. I personally hope it
does not come to that. It is a sad statement about a company when that
company shows such disregard for its customers that the customer has
no other option but to go down that path.

[Regent]

On 2 nov, 05:21, VH_VH > wrote:
> On Oct 28, 3:10*am, Juan > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > You could always band together with other people who have had similar
> > problems, locate an attorney in Slovenia and arrange for legal
> > pressure to be put on the company. If Slovenia is part of the EU there
> > are other routes that can be explored.
>
> > On Oct 19, 7:02*pm, VH_VH > wrote:
>
> > > I am making this posting in the hope of saving someone from going
> > > through what I have been going through and to ensure that it gets the
> > > coverage it deserves amongst the gliding community. It revolves around
> > > a business transaction between myself and Ales Cebavs, the managing
> > > director of AMS-Flight in Slovenia.
>
> > > It began at the start of January 2010 when I made a Euro 3165.27
> > > (about $5100 Australian dollars at the time) bank transfer to AMS-
> > > Flight on behalf of my local sailplane repair company, for a
> > > horizontal stabilizer for my LS3. This was after receiving a proforma
> > > invoice which confirmed that AMS-Flight agreed to the supply of this
> > > part. The terms and conditions required payment up front which I did
> > > in good faith.
>
> > > In mid-March, it was discovered that the wrong horizontal stabilizer
> > > had been manufactured. Fortunately this was discovered before AMS-
> > > Flight shipped the product although I have no proof that the wrong
> > > part was actually manufactured. I was then advised by Ales that he
> > > would need to try and find the correct mould needed for the
> > > manufacture.
>
> > > On 21 June 2010, I was advised by Ales that it would not be possible
> > > to provide the horizontal stabilizer and that my money would be
> > > refunded. I immediately provided Ales with my account details so that
> > > the refund could be processed. After that, all went quiet. He refused
> > > to respond to any of my e-mails requesting the status of my refund.
>
> > > After two frustrating months of trying to recover my money, on 18
> > > August I made a posting here (http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/
> > > soaring/12723/AMS-Flight-Out-of-business). It had the desired effect
> > > as suddenly Ales was communicating again and he was not happy,
> > > insisting that I remove that posting before he would consider
> > > returning "part" of my money. On 8 October I issued him with a
> > > deadline of 15 October to return my money in full which he chose to
> > > ignore. He seems to have lost sight of the fact that he, and AMS-
> > > Flight, have engaged in a contract with me to provide a part. Any
> > > legitimate and self-respecting company would refund the price in full
> > > if it was unable to meet that contract. Ales seems to think that he
> > > and AMS-Flight are above that and have no responsibility to do the
> > > right and legal thing. He is in direct breach of several articles in
> > > the Slovenian Consumer Protection Act and the Slovenian Trade Act and
> > > I have recently reported this to the Slovenian authorities.
>
> > > What really amazes me is that here is a supposedly legitimate
> > > manufacturing company, whose relatively small customer base is
> > > primarily made up of the gliding community, that shows no respect for
> > > that customer base and is quite willing to keep any money paid to it
> > > regardless of the outcome. No business can survive these days with
> > > that kind of attitude. Maybe one day Ales might be kind enough to
> > > offer an explanation for his irrational behaviour.
>
> > > I must point out that these comments are in no way intended to reflect
> > > badly on those companies listed as distributors on the AMS-Flight
> > > website. They are independent of AMS-Flight and I am certain they have
> > > their own issues with Ales.
>
> > > It would be very interesting to hear from others who have had a run-in
> > > with Ales and AMS-Flight. If there are enough of us then maybe we can
> > > bring some collective pressure to bear, whether that be in the form of
> > > a class action lawsuit or simply reporting these illegal and criminal
> > > activities to the Slovenian authorities. In any case, I will continue
> > > to fight to have Ales return my money. As an individual I certainly
> > > cannot afford to ignore someone who is effectively attempting to steal
> > > over AUD$5000 from me.
>
> > > Bob- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Thanks Juan. That is actually in the plan however it is a last resort.
> I am trying to give Ales and AMS-Flight every opportunity to resolve
> this but if necessary, I will take court action. I personally hope it
> does not come to that. It is a sad statement about a company when that
> company shows such disregard for its customers that the customer has
> no other option but to go down that path.- Masquer le texte des messages précédents -
>
> - Afficher le texte des messages précédents -

Hi,
I am also a victim of Ales Cebavs from AMS-Flight: 4.300 euros.
The technique is always the same: send the money, you will receive
your parts in 4 weeks, AND YOU NEVER RECEIVE YOUR ORDER ! You send e-
mails and telephone calls that he never returns. This has to come to
an end, and we have to stop Cebavs from continuing to defraud the
international gliding community. I already consulted a law firm from
the city where AMS is located, and I intend to stop this crook :
everybody interested to join the civil lawsuit, and also have Cebavs
arrested for international fraud, please contact me at my personnal e-
mail:
I am travelling regularly to Europe, and will make as many trips
as needed to Slovenia to see him convicted, and make sure that all his
victims are reimbursed.
Some owners of CARAT motorgliders are devastated to hear about
Cebavs criminal conduct ( go to CARAT MOTORGLIDER yahoo group), and
Cebavs silence speaks for itself.
He had the balls to write to me today that my order was ready,
but that he won't send it because of what I wrote on CARAT yahoogroup:
despicable !

[Regent Labrosse]

At 01:44 13 November 2010, Regent wrote:
>On 2 nov, 05:21, VH_VH wrote:
>> On Oct 28, 3:10=A0am, Juan wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > You could always band together with other people who have had
similar
>> > problems, locate an attorney in Slovenia and arrange for legal
>> > pressure to be put on the company. If Slovenia is part of the EU
there
>> > are other routes that can be explored.
>>
>> > On Oct 19, 7:02=A0pm, VH_VH wrote:
>>
>> > > I am making this posting in the hope of saving someone from going
>> > > through what I have been going through and to ensure that it gets
>the
>> > > coverage it deserves amongst the gliding community. It revolves
>aroun=
>d
>> > > a business transaction between myself and Ales Cebavs, the
managing
>> > > director of AMS-Flight in Slovenia.
>>
>> > > It began at the start of January 2010 when I made a Euro 3165.27
>> > > (about $5100 Australian dollars at the time) bank transfer to AMS-
>> > > Flight on behalf of my local sailplane repair company, for a
>> > > horizontal stabilizer for my LS3. This was after receiving a
>proforma
>> > > invoice which confirmed that AMS-Flight agreed to the supply of
this
>> > > part. The terms and conditions required payment up front which I
did
>> > > in good faith.
>>
>> > > In mid-March, it was discovered that the wrong horizontal
stabilizer
>> > > had been manufactured. Fortunately this was discovered before AMS-
>> > > Flight shipped the product although I have no proof that the wrong
>> > > part was actually manufactured. I was then advised by Ales that he
>> > > would need to try and find the correct mould needed for the
>> > > manufacture.
>>
>> > > On 21 June 2010, I was advised by Ales that it would not be
possible
>> > > to provide the horizontal stabilizer and that my money would be
>> > > refunded. I immediately provided Ales with my account details so
>that
>> > > the refund could be processed. After that, all went quiet. He
>refused
>> > > to respond to any of my e-mails requesting the status of my
refund.
>>
>> > > After two frustrating months of trying to recover my money, on 18
>> > > August I made a posting here
>(http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forum.asp=
>x/
>> > > soaring/12723/AMS-Flight-Out-of-business). It had the desired
effect
>> > > as suddenly Ales was communicating again and he was not happy,
>> > > insisting that I remove that posting before he would consider
>> > > returning "part" of my money. On 8 October I issued him with a
>> > > deadline of 15 October to return my money in full which he chose
to
>> > > ignore. He seems to have lost sight of the fact that he, and AMS-
>> > > Flight, have engaged in a contract with me to provide a part. Any
>> > > legitimate and self-respecting company would refund the price in
>full
>> > > if it was unable to meet that contract. Ales seems to think that
he
>> > > and AMS-Flight are above that and have no responsibility to do the
>> > > right and legal thing. He is in direct breach of several articles
in
>> > > the Slovenian Consumer Protection Act and the Slovenian Trade Act
>and
>> > > I have recently reported this to the Slovenian authorities.
>>
>> > > What really amazes me is that here is a supposedly legitimate
>> > > manufacturing company, whose relatively small customer base is
>> > > primarily made up of the gliding community, that shows no respect
>for
>> > > that customer base and is quite willing to keep any money paid to
it
>> > > regardless of the outcome. No business can survive these days with
>> > > that kind of attitude. Maybe one day Ales might be kind enough to
>> > > offer an explanation for his irrational behaviour.
>>
>> > > I must point out that these comments are in no way intended to
>reflec=
>t
>> > > badly on those companies listed as distributors on the AMS-Flight
>> > > website. They are independent of AMS-Flight and I am certain they
>hav=
>e
>> > > their own issues with Ales.
>>
>> > > It would be very interesting to hear from others who have had a
>run-i=
>n
>> > > with Ales and AMS-Flight. If there are enough of us then maybe we
>can
>> > > bring some collective pressure to bear, whether that be in the
form
>o=
>f
>> > > a class action lawsuit or simply reporting these illegal and
>criminal
>> > > activities to the Slovenian authorities. In any case, I will
>continue
>> > > to fight to have Ales return my money. As an individual I
certainly
>> > > cannot afford to ignore someone who is effectively attempting to
>stea=
>l
>> > > over AUD$5000 from me.
>>
>> > > Bob- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> Thanks Juan. That is actually in the plan however it is a last resort.
>> I am trying to give Ales and AMS-Flight every opportunity to resolve
>> this but if necessary, I will take court action. I personally hope it
>> does not come to that. It is a sad statement about a company when that
>> company shows such disregard for its customers that the customer has
>> no other option but to go down that path.- Masquer le texte des
messages
>=
>pr=E9c=E9dents -
>>
>> - Afficher le texte des messages pr=E9c=E9dents -
>
>Hi,
> I am also a victim of Ales Cebavs from AMS-Flight: 4.300 euros.
>The technique is always the same: send the money, you will receive
>your parts in 4 weeks, AND YOU NEVER RECEIVE YOUR ORDER ! You send e-
>mails and telephone calls that he never returns. This has to come to
>an end, and we have to stop Cebavs from continuing to defraud the
>international gliding community. I already consulted a law firm from
>the city where AMS is located, and I intend to stop this crook :
>everybody interested to join the civil lawsuit, and also have Cebavs
>arrested for international fraud, please contact me at my personnal e-
>mail:
> I am travelling regularly to Europe, and will make as many trips
>as needed to Slovenia to see him convicted, and make sure that all his
>victims are reimbursed.
> Some owners of CARAT motorgliders are devastated to hear about
>Cebavs criminal conduct ( go to CARAT MOTORGLIDER yahoo group), and
>Cebavs silence speaks for itself.
> He had the balls to write to me today that my order was ready,
>but that he won't send it because of what I wrote on CARAT yahoogroup:
>despicable !
>
Hi,
It is now clear that chances to get our parts or our money back are
near zero, since AMS-FLIGHT is not in business anymore: the plant has been
closed, all employees have been laid- off, and Ales Cebavs is now living
from small repairs that he is doing by himself. We are in contact with
slovenian authorities, and intend to continue our action to press
criminal charges against Cebavs.

[VH_VH]

Some of you may have heard that AMS-Flight has moved office and has
moved out of the Elan factory. The recent announcement by Ales that he
is moving into a new 2600 square metre factory has only served to
increase my cynical viewpoint of this unscrupulous person.

Given the fact that AMS-Flight is in a less than ideal financial
situation, the question begs asking how Ales has managed to secure a
2600 square metre factory. He gives his new address as Airfield Lesce-
Bled, Begunjska c. 12, SI-4248 Lesce (geographic location is
E14.17212, N46.36163). A check of the address indicates the occupant
to be a company named Abadon K&L d.o.o., a financial services firm. I
contacted Abadon K&L d.o.o. and oddly enough they are still at the
same address. When I asked if they knew Ales they indicated that they
did not. Ales must be keeping a very low profile in such a small
building (only about 15 metres by 15 metres).

I am probably not alone in thinking this, but I do find it very
curious that after 10 days since posting his new address in the Yahoo
Carat motorglider forum, Ales has still not provided phone and fax
details and has not updated his website. For such a significant move
there has been precious little information. One would think that any
normal company would take care of these very important details long
before the actual move.

There is no question at all that the factory would not and could not
be located at the Lesce-Bled airfield. Maybe Ales would like to
provide his customers with more information on the location of his new
factory. I am certain that they would all be very interested to know
seeing as their aircraft orders and parts will supposedly be built
there. At the same time he might want to explain why he has not yet
returned my prepayment as he agreed to back in June.

[VH_VH]

Here is a story that will both amuse you and make you shake your head
at the absurdity of this situation. Today I received a registered
letter from Ales. The content was an invoice for a quantity of 1 as
follows, and I quote “causing the business damage, knowing this while
AMS Flight d.o.o. informed you about so baned, but continued whatever
warning noctice received, operated to prejudice of a claim, internet –
discussion groups AMS Flight not allowed actions, public driven out,
partial charge”.

I certainly do not recall placing an order for that. What I did order
back in January 2010 was an horizontal stabiliser for an LS3. Ales
agreed to refund my money in June, and in August after getting no
further response, I made a posting in a forum as a last resort.
Continued refusal resulted in a more pointed posting in mid-October
which is seeing others come forward with similar stories about Ales,
AMS Flight, and how they are having their money taken and nothing
delivered.

Now interesting enough, the invoice is for the exact amount of my
prepayment, €3.165,27. So I would like to thank Ales for this official
document as it is proof that he acknowledges the amount that he owes
me. What he is doing is trying to wipe that debt from his books. What
he should have done is invoiced me for the AMS Flight office moving
expenses. That would probably have been closer to the truth. Ales, you
continue to over-estimate your own intelligence. I can guarantee that
you will see this document again and not in the scenario that you
would be hoping for. The facts speak for themselves. Once and for all,
would you just do the right thing and return my money.

[Regent Labrosse]

This is what we can call '' creative accouting '' ! I am sure that I
will receive the same kind of invoice in the next days. But it won't be
enough to avoid the investigation of the Slovenian authorities .
As a member of the European Union, I am convinced that Slovenia will not
tolerate these fraudulent actions committed on an international level by
one of their citizens.
There are many barriers, distance, language, and it will take time, but
justice will be done.





At 05:24 27 November 2010, VH_VH wrote:
>Here is a story that will both amuse you and make you shake your head
>at the absurdity of this situation. Today I received a registered
>letter from Ales. The content was an invoice for a quantity of 1 as
>follows, and I quote =93causing the business damage, knowing this while
>AMS Flight d.o.o. informed you about so baned, but continued whatever
>warning noctice received, operated to prejudice of a claim, internet =96
>discussion groups AMS Flight not allowed actions, public driven out,
>partial charge=94.
>
>I certainly do not recall placing an order for that. What I did order
>back in January 2010 was an horizontal stabiliser for an LS3. Ales
>agreed to refund my money in June, and in August after getting no
>further response, I made a posting in a forum as a last resort.
>Continued refusal resulted in a more pointed posting in mid-October
>which is seeing others come forward with similar stories about Ales,
>AMS Flight, and how they are having their money taken and nothing
>delivered.
>
>Now interesting enough, the invoice is for the exact amount of my
>prepayment, =803.165,27. So I would like to thank Ales for this official
>document as it is proof that he acknowledges the amount that he owes
>me. What he is doing is trying to wipe that debt from his books. What
>he should have done is invoiced me for the AMS Flight office moving
>expenses. That would probably have been closer to the truth. Ales, you
>continue to over-estimate your own intelligence. I can guarantee that
>you will see this document again and not in the scenario that you
>would be hoping for. The facts speak for themselves. Once and for all,
>would you just do the right thing and return my money.
>

[VH_VH]

Silence tells the story. Two weeks since his last posting and four
weeks since his magnificent announcement of the new 2600sqm factory
and Ales has still not come forward with any responses, neither to my
recent e-mails nor to the postings of others. Quite a great indication
of how much he values his customers and how much bulls__t he is
prepared to dish out to them. As I mentioned to Ales in a recent e-
mail, silence is considered acceptance of the statements and facts.
Even the AMS-Flight website has still not been updated with the new
address and contact details and it would not surprise me in the least
if it goes down sometime very soon.

So Ales, what is going on? I believe that there are many people that
are asking themselves the same question and wanting an answer. Your
only option is to settle the accounts with the people you owe because
we will not go away. Instead of taunting your customers with
photographs of parts and offering to let them see and touch them,
maybe you should consider actually delivering them, especially since
delivery was part of the payment and the original terms of contract.
The Ostrich is not native to Slovenia so get your head out of the sand
and start communicating!