How does your club handle transient members?

[SF]

Our club has a small number of transient members that own their own
gliders and only fly with us a few months of the year. It is rather
punitive to make them pay the full club dues every month in order to
offer tows for the month or two that they are in town. Does anyone
have a club membership category and billing scheme that is fair to
both the club and the transient members in instances like this?

SF

[Andy Melville[_2_]]

At 13:56 15 November 2010, SF wrote:
>Our club has a small number of transient members that own their own
>gliders and only fly with us a few months of the year. It is rather
>punitive to make them pay the full club dues every month in order to
>offer tows for the month or two that they are in town. Does anyone
>have a club membership category and billing scheme that is fair to
>both the club and the transient members in instances like this?
>
>SF
>In the UK we usually have a category of member called 'country member'
This refers to someone who lives a long distance from the club so that
getting there costs a lot and/or they typically would not be there very
often.
They usually get a cheaper membership because of this and as an
encouragement to come back. A typical price wouyld be 2/3 ordinary
membership

[Andy Melville[_2_]]

At 13:56 15 November 2010, SF wrote:
>Our club has a small number of transient members that own their own
>gliders and only fly with us a few months of the year. It is rather
>punitive to make them pay the full club dues every month in order to
>offer tows for the month or two that they are in town. Does anyone
>have a club membership category and billing scheme that is fair to
>both the club and the transient members in instances like this?
>
>SF
>

[Andy Melville[_2_]]

At 13:56 15 November 2010, SF wrote:
>Our club has a small number of transient members that own their own
>gliders and only fly with us a few months of the year. It is rather
>punitive to make them pay the full club dues every month in order to
>offer tows for the month or two that they are in town. Does anyone
>have a club membership category and billing scheme that is fair to
>both the club and the transient members in instances like this?
>
>SF
>

[[email protected]]

On Nov 15, 8:56*am, SF > wrote:
> Our club has a small number of transient members that own their own
> gliders and only fly with us a few months of the year. *It is rather
> punitive to make them pay the full club dues every month in order to
> offer tows for the month or two that they are in town. *Does anyone
> have a club membership category and billing scheme that is fair to
> both the club and the transient members in instances like this?
>
> SF

Our club has an associate member catagory that costs $50/yr and
permits members to use club facilities 4 times a year.
It is limited to people who don't fly with us regularly due to
geographical issues.
FWIW- for someone who only flies with the club for a couple months a
year, likely the good season- why should they not pay like others to
help ensure there will be a place to fly? Maybe your club might want
to consider a dues structure for such members that ensures they
contribute their fair share to the fixed costs of keeping the club
going.
FWIW
UH

[[email protected]]

On Nov 15, 7:22*am, wrote:
> On Nov 15, 8:56*am, SF > wrote:
>
> > Our club has a small number of transient members that own their own
> > gliders and only fly with us a few months of the year. *It is rather
> > punitive to make them pay the full club dues every month in order to
> > offer tows for the month or two that they are in town. *Does anyone
> > have a club membership category and billing scheme that is fair to
> > both the club and the transient members in instances like this?


Our club has a category of membership for those that own their own
glider, they are treated just like regular members but pay only 1/2
the monthly dues.

We also have an intern membership where the initiation fee is half,
with the remainder due in a year.

For those that leave the area, there is an inactive status that keeps
them in the club, but they cannot vote or use the equipment.

Hope this helps;

aerodyne

[Brad[_2_]]

On Nov 15, 8:35*am, wrote:
> On Nov 15, 7:22*am, wrote:
>
> > On Nov 15, 8:56*am, SF > wrote:
>
> > > Our club has a small number of transient members that own their own
> > > gliders and only fly with us a few months of the year. *It is rather
> > > punitive to make them pay the full club dues every month in order to
> > > offer tows for the month or two that they are in town. *Does anyone
> > > have a club membership category and billing scheme that is fair to
> > > both the club and the transient members in instances like this?
>
> Our club has a category of membership for those that own their own
> glider, they are treated just like regular members but pay only 1/2
> the monthly dues.
>
> We also have an intern membership where the initiation fee is half,
> with the remainder due in a year.
>
> For those that leave the area, there is an inactive status that keeps
> them in the club, but they cannot vote or use the equipment.
>
> Hope this helps;
>
> aerodyne

I'm curious how the full dues paying members feel about the owner/
members paying 1/2 the dues. Our club used to do that as well, but
decided to do away with it.

Brad

[Tony[_5_]]

I tend to agree with Hank. my feeling is that if you're in the club
you should be in the club. yes i suppose it could get frustrating
that you pay what seems like more dues than you are getting your
money's worth but everyone has to chip in. It is easy to fall in the
trap of thinking clubs are like FBO's. I know I have fallen into that
line of thinking in the past, wondering what my club could do for me
instead of what I could do for my club. I happily pay my regular
monthly dues to my "old" club so that I can get a tow if I ever get
back that way. My regular money is my way of chipping in since I'm
not around to help out.

Although after saying that I really appreciated being able to join the
Caprock Soaring club as an "associate" member or something like that
when I visited there over Labor Day. It was a fairly cheap join fee
(ended up about the same as a tow at a commercial operation) and
allowed me to get a tow so I could have a fantastic flight.

[[email protected]]

On Nov 15, 9:40*am, Tony > wrote:
> I tend to agree with Hank. my feeling is that if you're in the club
> you should be in the club. *yes i suppose it could get frustrating
> that you pay what seems like more dues than you are getting your
> money's worth but everyone has to chip in. *It is easy to fall in the
> trap of thinking clubs are like FBO's. *I know I have fallen into that
> line of thinking in the past, wondering what my club could do for me
> instead of what I could do for my club.

The thought is if you are flying your own ship, you are flying the
club equipment less, and not adding to the wear and tear.

Most of those that are in the reduced dues category are active at the
airport, doing work for the club, but perhaps fly the clubs ships a
few times a year.

aerodyne

[Tony[_5_]]

On Nov 15, 12:16*pm, wrote:
> On Nov 15, 9:40*am, Tony > wrote:
>
> > I tend to agree with Hank. my feeling is that if you're in the club
> > you should be in the club. *yes i suppose it could get frustrating
> > that you pay what seems like more dues than you are getting your
> > money's worth but everyone has to chip in. *It is easy to fall in the
> > trap of thinking clubs are like FBO's. *I know I have fallen into that
> > line of thinking in the past, wondering what my club could do for me
> > instead of what I could do for my club.
>
> The thought is if you are flying your own ship, you are flying the
> club equipment less, and not adding to the wear and tear.
>
> Most of those that are in the reduced dues category are active at the
> airport, doing work for the club, but perhaps fly the clubs ships a
> few times a year.
>
> aerodyne

if the club owns the towplane they are using club equipment every time
they fly.

[Frank Whiteley]

On Nov 15, 6:56*am, SF > wrote:
> Our club has a small number of transient members that own their own
> gliders and only fly with us a few months of the year. *It is rather
> punitive to make them pay the full club dues every month in order to
> offer tows for the month or two that they are in town. *Does anyone
> have a club membership category and billing scheme that is fair to
> both the club and the transient members in instances like this?
>
> SF

On Nov 15, 6:56 am, SF > wrote:
> Our club has a small number of transient members that own their own
> gliders and only fly with us a few months of the year. It is rather
> punitive to make them pay the full club dues every month in order to
> offer tows for the month or two that they are in town. Does anyone
> have a club membership category and billing scheme that is fair to
> both the club and the transient members in instances like this?
>
> SF

Type of question we'd like to tackle at the SSA Conference in
Philadelphia on the Club Track. Round tables on club/chapter
operations Friday 1:30-3:30pm, club/chapter management Saturday
1:30-3:30pm.

Without getting into all of the cosmic scenarios, it depends on your
corporate form, business model, insurance plan, and the IRS, who may
frown upon differential dues among categories of memberships.

In the particular case of your chapter, among your stated (elsewhere)
reasons for being a membership organization are the group insurance
requirements. What you aren't saying is whether these transient
members will be offered use of chapter equipment and if they are
private owners who really want tows. Are you going to provide tows to
one who may not fit local currency requirements? Consistency of rules
counts across all membership levels. I don't recall cheap flying for
transient members as being one of the stated purposes for your
organization. What you need to do is sell this type of member on the
idea of sustaining support of your stated corporate purposes that
earned your chapter the 501c(3) tax determination. The determination
does not give you the opportunity, but may prohibit your chapter, from
providing competing services to the public with a local commercial
operator. We may quibble about whether Bermuda High is local, as it
appears to be about 107 road miles away.

Why would you state the dues punitive? Are these 'transient members'
likely to go to Bermuda High if they don't get a cheap membership? If
so, then they are not 'stakeholders' in your organizational interest.

Another poster mentions Associate members. Probably doable if they
live outside of a minimum radius (pick a number, 150, 250, 350 miles)
and pay a sustaining dues year round and full dues when active with
the club. That mutes any indication that the chapter is entertaining
'temporary' memberships, frowned upon by the underwriters if under the
SSA Group Plan.

In looking at the membership levels for your chapter, I see tow pilots
get $5/tow credits against tows. So a tow pilot might earn 2-4 free
tows/day. There's nothing wrong with contracting services from
members (now a vendor) in a 501c(3), as long as the tow pilots were
not involved in the decision making process other than as an offer or
a proposal. Any tow pilots, including board members, should have been
recused from the board discussion and action. One very large chapter
uses teams to facilitate and manage daily operations. Chapter members
actively participating on the teams are waived the hook-up charges on
aero tows, $10 in this case. This is a discount method, and non-
accumulating. Which method better avoids the appearance of 'private
inurement'? Which method better mutes the question of
'compensation'? If Joe Towpilot provides an average of 16 tows per
day and tows 20 days per year, are you cutting a 1099? If not, why
not?

You have to walk the talk,

Frank Whiteley
Chair, SSA Clubs & Chapters Committee
970-330-2050

[Brad[_2_]]

On Nov 15, 10:20*am, Tony > wrote:
> On Nov 15, 12:16*pm, wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 15, 9:40*am, Tony > wrote:
>
> > > I tend to agree with Hank. my feeling is that if you're in the club
> > > you should be in the club. *yes i suppose it could get frustrating
> > > that you pay what seems like more dues than you are getting your
> > > money's worth but everyone has to chip in. *It is easy to fall in the
> > > trap of thinking clubs are like FBO's. *I know I have fallen into that
> > > line of thinking in the past, wondering what my club could do for me
> > > instead of what I could do for my club.
>
> > The thought is if you are flying your own ship, you are flying the
> > club equipment less, and not adding to the wear and tear.
>
> > Most of those that are in the reduced dues category are active at the
> > airport, doing work for the club, but perhaps fly the clubs ships a
> > few times a year.
>
> > aerodyne
>
> if the club owns the towplane they are using club equipment every time
> they fly.

The towplane expenses should be covered by the cost of the tow, true,
everyone uses the towplane. What the owner members do not need to
cover are the cost associated with the clubs glider fleet. The
occasional use of the club fleet by an owner member can be a
significantly higher "useage fee/rate" for that flight.

Owner members have a significant investment tied up in their personnel
ship: They pay trailer spot fees, tie down fees, annual costs,
maintenance costs, etc.

The club member who uses club ships really do get a good deal when you
look at all the costs that add up to owning your own glider as opposed
to the collective costs of club gliders spread out amongst the
membership.

On another subject, owner members take much better care of their ships
than club members do of the club ships. I'm sure there can be many
arguments made regarding that statement, but no owner I've ever met
ever left his glider tied out with gust locks laying on the ground,
slack tie-down ropes, trailer doors left un-locked,
etc.............and who pays for the fleet when it get's damaged? We
all do.

Brad

[Frank Whiteley]

On Nov 15, 11:16*am, wrote:
> On Nov 15, 9:40*am, Tony > wrote:
>
> > I tend to agree with Hank. my feeling is that if you're in the club
> > you should be in the club. *yes i suppose it could get frustrating
> > that you pay what seems like more dues than you are getting your
> > money's worth but everyone has to chip in. *It is easy to fall in the
> > trap of thinking clubs are like FBO's. *I know I have fallen into that
> > line of thinking in the past, wondering what my club could do for me
> > instead of what I could do for my club.
>
> The thought is if you are flying your own ship, you are flying the
> club equipment less, and not adding to the wear and tear.
>
> Most of those that are in the reduced dues category are active at the
> airport, doing work for the club, but perhaps fly the clubs ships a
> few times a year.
>
> aerodyne

The other option is to pay for use of club gliders as some rate above
the fixed costs which are built into the dues which provides for
replacement. At a commercial operation, depreciation of equipment
lowers the overall tax burden and is an expense of doing business. In
most clubs, the best depreciation does is lowers the personal property
tax burden, where applicable. The rest is in the wind.

Frank Whiteley

[RR]

On Nov 15, 2:51*pm, Frank Whiteley > wrote:
> On Nov 15, 11:16*am, wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 15, 9:40*am, Tony > wrote:
>
> > > I tend to agree with Hank. my feeling is that if you're in the club
> > > you should be in the club. *yes i suppose it could get frustrating
> > > that you pay what seems like more dues than you are getting your
> > > money's worth but everyone has to chip in. *It is easy to fall in the
> > > trap of thinking clubs are like FBO's. *I know I have fallen into that
> > > line of thinking in the past, wondering what my club could do for me
> > > instead of what I could do for my club.
>
> > The thought is if you are flying your own ship, you are flying the
> > club equipment less, and not adding to the wear and tear.
>
> > Most of those that are in the reduced dues category are active at the
> > airport, doing work for the club, but perhaps fly the clubs ships a
> > few times a year.
>
> > aerodyne
>
> The other option is to pay for use of club gliders as some rate above
> the fixed costs which are built into the dues which provides for
> replacement. *At a commercial operation, depreciation of equipment
> lowers the overall tax burden and is an expense of doing business. *In
> most clubs, the best depreciation does is lowers the personal property
> tax burden, where applicable. *The rest is in the wind.
>
> Frank Whiteley

At our club we have had both systems. Reduced dues for members with
their own gliders, and our current system of one rate for all. This
was not universally welcomed by private owners as one might expect,
but the increase in cost was offset by the club paying the parking
fees for the private trailers. The main goal was to simply have
members, each expected to contribute equally, both in dues and
duty... this system in my view has been beneficial...

But perhaps more interesting and to the point of visiting pilots, ssa
region one now has a policy of reciprocal tow privileges between all
new England clubs. The theory here is that it takes support to make
the clubs work so belong to one, and as a supporter of the sport, fly
anywhere...

This benefits members of the more northern clubs by extending there
season, and benefits members of the southern clubs by giving them
access to mountainous terrain. We welcome visitors from affair, but
discourage lightweight use by non affiliated local pilots... again
the clubs need support, just pick one that works best for you...

RR
304cz/17

[Frank Whiteley]

On Nov 15, 11:39*am, Brad > wrote:
> On Nov 15, 10:20*am, Tony > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 15, 12:16*pm, wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 15, 9:40*am, Tony > wrote:
>
> > > > I tend to agree with Hank. my feeling is that if you're in the club
> > > > you should be in the club. *yes i suppose it could get frustrating
> > > > that you pay what seems like more dues than you are getting your
> > > > money's worth but everyone has to chip in. *It is easy to fall in the
> > > > trap of thinking clubs are like FBO's. *I know I have fallen into that
> > > > line of thinking in the past, wondering what my club could do for me
> > > > instead of what I could do for my club.
>
> > > The thought is if you are flying your own ship, you are flying the
> > > club equipment less, and not adding to the wear and tear.
>
> > > Most of those that are in the reduced dues category are active at the
> > > airport, doing work for the club, but perhaps fly the clubs ships a
> > > few times a year.
>
> > > aerodyne
>
> > if the club owns the towplane they are using club equipment every time
> > they fly.
>
> The towplane expenses should be covered by the cost of the tow, true,
> everyone uses the towplane. What the owner members do not need to
> cover are the cost associated with the clubs glider fleet. The
> occasional use of the club fleet by an owner member can be a
> significantly higher "useage fee/rate" for that flight.
>
> Owner members have a significant investment tied up in their personnel
> ship: They pay trailer spot fees, tie down fees, annual costs,
> maintenance costs, etc.
>
> The club member who uses club ships really do get a good deal when you
> look at all the costs that add up to owning your own glider as opposed
> to the collective costs of club gliders spread out amongst the
> membership.
>
> On another subject, owner members take much better care of their ships
> than club members do of the club ships. I'm sure there can be many
> arguments made regarding that statement, but no owner I've ever met
> ever left his glider tied out with gust locks laying on the ground,
> slack tie-down ropes, trailer doors left un-locked,
> etc.............and who pays for the fleet when it get's damaged? We
> all do.
>
> Brad

Neglect generally plays to the club culture and the type of member to
member mentoring that's done, or not. I've visited one club where
little effort was made to wash the bugs from the gliders, gack! Makes
one wonder what else isn't done. The SSA Plan discounts coverage 30
percent to chapters with good claims records over commercial coverage,
noting the chapter members generally take better care than renters.

Raise the bar a bit,

Frank Whiteley