Flight Recorder for SSA Badges

[Carl6703[_2_]]

I would like to retire our old Barographs and replace them with a
portable Flight Recorder that could be rented to candidates for SSA
badges. Does anyone have any suggestions for a portable flight
recorder which would meet the badge requirements? Thanks.

Carl Baxter
Turf Soaring

[Darryl Ramm]

On Nov 18, 9:01*am, Carl6703 > wrote:
> I would like to retire our old Barographs and replace them with a
> portable Flight Recorder that could be rented to candidates for SSA
> badges. *Does anyone have any suggestions for a portable flight
> recorder which would meet the badge requirements? Thanks.
>
> Carl Baxter
> Turf Soaring

LX Nano seems the clear feature leader in the portable IGC approved
Flight recorder market and its well priced at ~US$600 on the street.
Internal battery or external powered. Bluetooth support. Available
now. That is what I'd buy.

Many USA pilots are going to gain a IGC flight recorder via their
PowerFLARM and if they have a portable model then its obviously a
portable IGC flight recorder as well (suitable for use on all FAI
badges up to and including the 3 diamonds). So another option is to
encourage use of or rent a PowerFLARM. That $500 cost of a flight
recorder helps offset around a third of the purchase price of a
PowerFLARM so something to think about.

Darryl

[Tony[_5_]]

On Nov 18, 11:01*am, Carl6703 > wrote:
> I would like to retire our old Barographs and replace them with a
> portable Flight Recorder that could be rented to candidates for SSA
> badges. *Does anyone have any suggestions for a portable flight
> recorder which would meet the badge requirements? Thanks.
>
> Carl Baxter
> Turf Soaring

if you want to eliminate the barographs completely i'd say go with the
LXNAV Nano. Extremely small, entirely self contained in a unit that
is smaller than my cell phone, costs about the same as a 15 yr old
volkslogger or cambridge unit (~$600 at cumulus soaring and wings and
wheels and maybe others), easy operation. I just picked one up and am
looking forward to using it this upcoming season. I would think it
would be a great setup for rental.

just curious, why are you looking to retire the barographs? if you're
wanting your renters to be able to do closed course silver and gold
distance legs you can get some FlywithCE recorders (~$120 at Wings and
Wheels) to use in conjunction with the barographs. They have been
approved as "Position Recorders" in the USA to replace cameras and
turnpoint photos. Of course the Barograph alone is still all you need
to do free distance silver, gold and diamond distance and altitude
gains and silver duration.

[Grider Pirate]

On Nov 18, 9:22*am, Tony > wrote:
> On Nov 18, 11:01*am, Carl6703 > wrote:
>
> > I would like to retire our old Barographs and replace them with a
> > portable Flight Recorder that could be rented to candidates for SSA
> > badges. *Does anyone have any suggestions for a portable flight
> > recorder which would meet the badge requirements? Thanks.
>
> > Carl Baxter
> > Turf Soaring
>
> if you want to eliminate the barographs completely i'd say go with the
> LXNAV Nano. *Extremely small, entirely self contained in a unit that
> is smaller than my cell phone, costs about the same as a 15 yr old
> volkslogger or cambridge unit (~$600 at cumulus soaring and wings and
> wheels and maybe others), easy operation. *I just picked one up and am
> looking forward to using it this upcoming season. *I would think it
> would be a great setup for rental.
>
> just curious, why are you looking to retire the barographs? if you're
> wanting your renters to be able to do closed course silver and gold
> distance legs you can get some FlywithCE recorders (~$120 at Wings and
> Wheels) to use in conjunction with the barographs. *They have been
> approved as "Position Recorders" in the USA to replace cameras and
> turnpoint photos. *Of course the Barograph alone is still all you need
> to do free distance silver, gold and diamond distance and altitude
> gains and silver duration.

[Grider Pirate]

On Nov 18, 9:22*am, Tony > wrote:
> On Nov 18, 11:01*am, Carl6703 > wrote:
>
> > I would like to retire our old Barographs and replace them with a
> > portable Flight Recorder that could be rented to candidates for SSA
> > badges. *Does anyone have any suggestions for a portable flight
> > recorder which would meet the badge requirements? Thanks.
>
> > Carl Baxter
> > Turf Soaring
>
> if you want to eliminate the barographs completely i'd say go with the
> LXNAV Nano. *Extremely small, entirely self contained in a unit that
> is smaller than my cell phone, costs about the same as a 15 yr old
> volkslogger or cambridge unit (~$600 at cumulus soaring and wings and
> wheels and maybe others), easy operation. *I just picked one up and am
> looking forward to using it this upcoming season. *I would think it
> would be a great setup for rental.
>
> just curious, why are you looking to retire the barographs? if you're
> wanting your renters to be able to do closed course silver and gold
> distance legs you can get some FlywithCE recorders (~$120 at Wings and
> Wheels) to use in conjunction with the barographs. *They have been
> approved as "Position Recorders" in the USA to replace cameras and
> turnpoint photos. *Of course the Barograph alone is still all you need
> to do free distance silver, gold and diamond distance and altitude
> gains and silver duration.

Oops! I hit 'send' instead of 'discard'. I'm sure the OP is trying
to SIMPLIFY more than economize. Yes, it's cheaper to use a postion
recorder and baro some badge flights, but it's also a PITA! I'm voting
with Daryll: get an LX Nano and be done.

[Richard[_9_]]

On Nov 18, 9:01*am, Carl6703 > wrote:
> I would like to retire our old Barographs and replace them with a
> portable Flight Recorder that could be rented to candidates for SSA
> badges. *Does anyone have any suggestions for a portable flight
> recorder which would meet the badge requirements? Thanks.
>
> Carl Baxter
> Turf Soaring

Carl,

Craggy Aero LLC is the Authorized Dealer and Service Center for the
US for LXNAV the manufacturer of the NANO flight computer.

I have NANOs in stock.

Please see

http://www.craggyaero.com/lx_nav.htm

For information on the NANO.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Tony[_5_]]

On Nov 18, 11:33*am, Grider Pirate > wrote:
> On Nov 18, 9:22*am, Tony > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 18, 11:01*am, Carl6703 > wrote:
>
> > > I would like to retire our old Barographs and replace them with a
> > > portable Flight Recorder that could be rented to candidates for SSA
> > > badges. *Does anyone have any suggestions for a portable flight
> > > recorder which would meet the badge requirements? Thanks.
>
> > > Carl Baxter
> > > Turf Soaring
>
> > if you want to eliminate the barographs completely i'd say go with the
> > LXNAV Nano. *Extremely small, entirely self contained in a unit that
> > is smaller than my cell phone, costs about the same as a 15 yr old
> > volkslogger or cambridge unit (~$600 at cumulus soaring and wings and
> > wheels and maybe others), easy operation. *I just picked one up and am
> > looking forward to using it this upcoming season. *I would think it
> > would be a great setup for rental.
>
> > just curious, why are you looking to retire the barographs? if you're
> > wanting your renters to be able to do closed course silver and gold
> > distance legs you can get some FlywithCE recorders (~$120 at Wings and
> > Wheels) to use in conjunction with the barographs. *They have been
> > approved as "Position Recorders" in the USA to replace cameras and
> > turnpoint photos. *Of course the Barograph alone is still all you need
> > to do free distance silver, gold and diamond distance and altitude
> > gains and silver duration.
>
> Oops! *I hit 'send' instead of 'discard'. *I'm sure the OP is trying
> to SIMPLIFY more than economize. *Yes, it's cheaper to use a postion
> recorder and baro some badge flights, but it's also a PITA! I'm voting
> with Daryll: get an LX Nano and be done.

i also suggested the Nano if a full IGC approved flight recorder is
what they want. I'm not convinced that an electronic flight recorder
is really more simple than a barograph. I did a bunch of state
records this season with a FlywithCE/barograph combination and it was
not that difficult to do the paperwork and application. There is
plenty of paperwork and setup to be done with either type of device
before and after the flight. also plenty of failure modes for each.
any of us with any experience with any type of flight recording device
can attest to that.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Nov 18, 9:55*am, Tony > wrote:
> On Nov 18, 11:33*am, Grider Pirate > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 18, 9:22*am, Tony > wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 18, 11:01*am, Carl6703 > wrote:
>
> > > > I would like to retire our old Barographs and replace them with a
> > > > portable Flight Recorder that could be rented to candidates for SSA
> > > > badges. *Does anyone have any suggestions for a portable flight
> > > > recorder which would meet the badge requirements? Thanks.
>
> > > > Carl Baxter
> > > > Turf Soaring
>
> > > if you want to eliminate the barographs completely i'd say go with the
> > > LXNAV Nano. *Extremely small, entirely self contained in a unit that
> > > is smaller than my cell phone, costs about the same as a 15 yr old
> > > volkslogger or cambridge unit (~$600 at cumulus soaring and wings and
> > > wheels and maybe others), easy operation. *I just picked one up and am
> > > looking forward to using it this upcoming season. *I would think it
> > > would be a great setup for rental.
>
> > > just curious, why are you looking to retire the barographs? if you're
> > > wanting your renters to be able to do closed course silver and gold
> > > distance legs you can get some FlywithCE recorders (~$120 at Wings and
> > > Wheels) to use in conjunction with the barographs. *They have been
> > > approved as "Position Recorders" in the USA to replace cameras and
> > > turnpoint photos. *Of course the Barograph alone is still all you need
> > > to do free distance silver, gold and diamond distance and altitude
> > > gains and silver duration.
>
> > Oops! *I hit 'send' instead of 'discard'. *I'm sure the OP is trying
> > to SIMPLIFY more than economize. *Yes, it's cheaper to use a postion
> > recorder and baro some badge flights, but it's also a PITA! I'm voting
> > with Daryll: get an LX Nano and be done.
>
> i also suggested the Nano if a full IGC approved flight recorder is
> what they want. *I'm not convinced that an electronic flight recorder
> is really more simple than a barograph. *I did a bunch of state
> records this season with a FlywithCE/barograph combination and it was
> not that difficult to do the paperwork and application. *There is
> plenty of paperwork and setup to be done with either type of device
> before and after the flight. also plenty of failure modes for each.
> any of us with any experience with any type of flight recording device
> can attest to that.

Tony. Congratulations you passed the IGC flight recorder puzzle test
and have a badge to prove it. Many other people beat their head
against this and give up. And yes an IGC flight recorder still
involves a lot of stuff but any operation who standardizes on one
recording device for all badges flights (where any recording device is
needed) is going to have an easier time. Especially when they need to
understand all the rule and different device nuances and then need to
explain that to renters, explain it again, and again, and again,....

At $600 price and if used by any reasonable number of people per year
the per-use cost is very low -- I just do not see why any commercial
operation (where I presume people's time cost money) would want to
dick around with barographs when there is a portable IGC recorder
available for $600.

Darryl

[Tony[_5_]]

On Nov 18, 12:06*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On Nov 18, 9:55*am, Tony > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 18, 11:33*am, Grider Pirate > wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 18, 9:22*am, Tony > wrote:
>
> > > > On Nov 18, 11:01*am, Carl6703 > wrote:
>
> > > > > I would like to retire our old Barographs and replace them with a
> > > > > portable Flight Recorder that could be rented to candidates for SSA
> > > > > badges. *Does anyone have any suggestions for a portable flight
> > > > > recorder which would meet the badge requirements? Thanks.
>
> > > > > Carl Baxter
> > > > > Turf Soaring
>
> > > > if you want to eliminate the barographs completely i'd say go with the
> > > > LXNAV Nano. *Extremely small, entirely self contained in a unit that
> > > > is smaller than my cell phone, costs about the same as a 15 yr old
> > > > volkslogger or cambridge unit (~$600 at cumulus soaring and wings and
> > > > wheels and maybe others), easy operation. *I just picked one up and am
> > > > looking forward to using it this upcoming season. *I would think it
> > > > would be a great setup for rental.
>
> > > > just curious, why are you looking to retire the barographs? if you're
> > > > wanting your renters to be able to do closed course silver and gold
> > > > distance legs you can get some FlywithCE recorders (~$120 at Wings and
> > > > Wheels) to use in conjunction with the barographs. *They have been
> > > > approved as "Position Recorders" in the USA to replace cameras and
> > > > turnpoint photos. *Of course the Barograph alone is still all you need
> > > > to do free distance silver, gold and diamond distance and altitude
> > > > gains and silver duration.
>
> > > Oops! *I hit 'send' instead of 'discard'. *I'm sure the OP is trying
> > > to SIMPLIFY more than economize. *Yes, it's cheaper to use a postion
> > > recorder and baro some badge flights, but it's also a PITA! I'm voting
> > > with Daryll: get an LX Nano and be done.
>
> > i also suggested the Nano if a full IGC approved flight recorder is
> > what they want. *I'm not convinced that an electronic flight recorder
> > is really more simple than a barograph. *I did a bunch of state
> > records this season with a FlywithCE/barograph combination and it was
> > not that difficult to do the paperwork and application. *There is
> > plenty of paperwork and setup to be done with either type of device
> > before and after the flight. also plenty of failure modes for each.
> > any of us with any experience with any type of flight recording device
> > can attest to that.
>
> Tony. Congratulations you passed the IGC flight recorder puzzle test
> and have a badge to prove it. Many other people beat their head
> against this and give up. And yes an IGC flight recorder still
> involves a lot of stuff but any operation who standardizes on one
> recording device for all badges flights (where any recording device is
> needed) is going to have an easier time. Especially when they need to
> understand all the rule and different device nuances and then need to
> explain that to renters, explain it again, and again, and again,....
>
> At $600 price and if used by any reasonable number of people per year
> the per-use cost is very low -- I just do not see why any commercial
> operation (where I presume people's time cost money) would want to
> dick around with barographs when there is a portable IGC recorder
> available for $600.
>
> Darryl

Darryl when I was working on my Silver Badge I did eventually get the
point of beating my head on the wall and nearly giving up. Giving up
on doing the paperwork and getting a good trace that is. I always
seemed to fly further when I didn't have the barograph on board
anyway.

Last winter I spent a lot of time actually reading the Sporting Code
and the SSA Badge and Record guide and started preparing for flights
by the book. I was amazed at how well it worked out. Instead of having
the barograph/FR be an afterthought it was actually part of the
planning for the flight and by golly things started working out.
Managed to get my gold badge legs and something like 17 state records
all through on the first try! Also OO'd for at least 6 Silver badge
legs using barographs, 2 using a FR, and 2 state records and they all
went through too! I must be living right!

yes standardizing on one device is a good idea, be that a replogle
barograph or an FR. there is approximately equal preflight dicking
around associated with either one, IMO. If they want their renters to
be able to fly for Diamond Goal then the FR is the obvious choice. No
doubt the Nano is probably the best choice. That is why I just bought
one.

Although I do need to remember to make a box in the Cherokee for that
Winter Barograph I have. Gotta have that ready for the eventual
diamond distance attempt.

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

Like many of the others that posted here - I'm a fan of the Nano. I have
them in stock, along with nice cables for connecting to PDAs, etc. I'm also
a dealer for LXNAV.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/lxnav.htm

The EW microRecorder is also a nice option.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/ew.htm

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

"Carl6703" > wrote in message
...
>I would like to retire our old Barographs and replace them with a
> portable Flight Recorder that could be rented to candidates for SSA
> badges. Does anyone have any suggestions for a portable flight
> recorder which would meet the badge requirements? Thanks.
>
> Carl Baxter
> Turf Soaring

[mike]

On Nov 18, 10:01*am, Carl6703 > wrote:
> I would like to retire our old Barographs and replace them with a
> portable Flight Recorder that could be rented to candidates for SSA
> badges. *Does anyone have any suggestions for a portable flight
> recorder which would meet the badge requirements? Thanks.
>
> Carl Baxter
> Turf Soaring

I have a Nano and it is very easy to use and works well.
Blue Tooth with the Nano works, as does using the serial port with my
HX4700. There is one small hiccup if you are using XCSoar or LK8000.
So far declaring a task using LK8000 or XCSoar has not been possible.
The easy work around is using Navetir ConnectMe, which is a free
program, to declare tasks via your IPAQ just prior to take off. Of
course task inputs using a home or laptop computer are easy as well.

Mike "0"

[kirk.stant]

Tony, how do you get SeeYou to read your barograph trace? Everytime I
try, the damn foil gets stuck in the usb port and it's hell getting it
all out!

But got to admit, the cockpit of a 2-33 just isn't complete without a
nice barograph bungeed to the floor...

Just kidding, folks - slow day at work ;^)

Kirk
66

[Gregg Leslie[_2_]]

Buy the Nano. I have one, fool proof, it will drive a Pda also. The Nano is

basicly a memory stick with a Gps built into it. The nano has its own
program attached to it. If you plug the Nano into your computer, it is
reconized, and all you have to do is click on the Nano menu and the 2 page

menu comes up. One menu is Nano setup, units, pilot id, etc. The other
menu is for waypoint and task loading. Very very simple.
As far as reading a flight. Open Seeyou and open the Nano flight file, and

your flight loads. It also runs on its own power for 14 hours if you lose
your
ships battery, or you can just use it by itself with its rechargeable
battery.

This logger is soooo easy. Highly recommended.

GL



18:38 18 November 2010, kirk.stant wrote:
>Tony, how do you get SeeYou to read your barograph trace? Everytime I
>try, the damn foil gets stuck in the usb port and it's hell getting it
>all out!
>
>But got to admit, the cockpit of a 2-33 just isn't complete without a
>nice barograph bungeed to the floor...
>
>Just kidding, folks - slow day at work ;^)
>
>Kirk
>66
>

[Tim Mara]

Data loggers have come a long way and have all come down in price and will
likely continue to do so as long as there is competition from other
manufacturers.The FlyWithCE recorder
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/flywithce_recorder_erixx_gps_dat.htm really
started the revolution to bringing prices down at just a little over
$100..the Colibri
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/lx_navigation_lx7000_lx7007_coli.htm did the
same to reduce costs from the older Cambridge loggers and has become one of
the most popular and reliable loggers since it was introduced . The Colibri
introduced USB and MicroSD Cards as serial devices were on their way
out..Don't overlook the ERIXX IGC Data-Logger,
http://www.imi-gliding.com/en/erixx-flight-recorder.html tiny and simple and
best of all no one has to be an IT professional to run any of these newer
devices, most will download directly to a PC with USB plug in or simple SD
Card reader as is the Nano
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/lx_nav_lx8000_lx9000_nano_flight.htm and any
of the aforementioned loggers produce FAI/IGC files that are easy to view
with any flight planning software like SeeYou without having to go through
complicated conversion processes like the original loggers.
Like everyone else I have several options all available and all can ship
same day from stock.
tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com


if you want to eliminate the barographs completely i'd say go with the
LXNAV Nano. Extremely small, entirely self contained in a unit that
is smaller than my cell phone, costs about the same as a 15 yr old
volkslogger or cambridge unit (~$600 at cumulus soaring and wings and
wheels and maybe others), easy operation. I just picked one up and am
looking forward to using it this upcoming season. I would think it
would be a great setup for rental.

just curious, why are you looking to retire the barographs? if you're
wanting your renters to be able to do closed course silver and gold
distance legs you can get some FlywithCE recorders (~$120 at Wings and
Wheels) to use in conjunction with the barographs. They have been
approved as "Position Recorders" in the USA to replace cameras and
turnpoint photos. Of course the Barograph alone is still all you need
to do free distance silver, gold and diamond distance and altitude
gains and silver duration.




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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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[noel.wade]

Just a quick note:

If you wind up not liking the LX NANO (which I haven't had a chance to
play with yet), I've been VERY happy with my EW Micro Recorder units
over the last 2 years. They've performed nearly flawlessly at several
contests and a big state-records flight this summer. Super-simple
operation, with an SD card slot and a single on/off button. You can
use the SD Card or a USB cable to plug into the unit and change
settings or download flight logs. Runs off of internal batteries or
can be powered externally. Easily removable from a glider, I mount
mine with velcro. Slightly larger than a deck of cards, and
lightweight to boot. Can drive a PDA (GPS NMEA output) and can accept
flight declarations from most of the PDA/flight computer programs out
there.

Good luck!

--Noel

[Barny]

The Power Flarm frenzy is the likely reason for the increase in used
flight recorders for sale. Anybody with an SN10 want a Volkslogger?
They're a great combo. I'll succumb to the pressure and get a PF if
someone buys my Volkslogger.....

[toad]

On Nov 18, 1:15*pm, Tony > wrote:

> Darryl when I was working on my Silver Badge I did eventually get the
> point of beating my head on the wall and nearly giving up. Giving up
> on doing the paperwork and getting a good trace that is. *I always
> seemed to fly further when I didn't have the barograph on board
> anyway.

When I was starting doing my Silver Altitude and Duration, I started
with a neat barograph that used thermal paper. It was easy to get an
altitude trace. Then I tried to do my Silver distance flight. One
time doing the paper declaration, camera mounted on the window, grease
pencil mark, etc was enough. I ordered a Colibri as soon as I got
home from that trip.

It's just so simple.

[Tony[_5_]]

On Nov 18, 8:20*pm, toad > wrote:
> On Nov 18, 1:15*pm, Tony > wrote:
>
> > Darryl when I was working on my Silver Badge I did eventually get the
> > point of beating my head on the wall and nearly giving up. Giving up
> > on doing the paperwork and getting a good trace that is. *I always
> > seemed to fly further when I didn't have the barograph on board
> > anyway.
>
> When I was starting doing my Silver Altitude and Duration, I started
> with a neat barograph that used thermal paper. *It was easy to get an
> altitude trace. *Then I tried to do my Silver distance flight. *One
> time doing the paper declaration, camera mounted on the window, grease
> pencil mark, etc was enough. *I ordered a Colibri as soon as I got
> home from that trip.
>
> It's just so simple.

it was only complicated because you wanted to fly a closed course :)

[Carl6703[_2_]]

On Nov 18, 10:22*am, Tony > wrote:
> On Nov 18, 11:01*am, Carl6703 > wrote:
>
> > I would like to retire our old Barographs and replace them with a
> > portable Flight Recorder that could be rented to candidates for SSA
> > badges. *Does anyone have any suggestions for a portable flight
> > recorder which would meet the badge requirements? Thanks.
>
> > Carl Baxter
> > Turf Soaring
>
> if you want to eliminate the barographs completely i'd say go with the
> LXNAV Nano. *Extremely small, entirely self contained in a unit that
> is smaller than my cell phone, costs about the same as a 15 yr old
> volkslogger or cambridge unit (~$600 at cumulus soaring and wings and
> wheels and maybe others), easy operation. *I just picked one up and am
> looking forward to using it this upcoming season. *I would think it
> would be a great setup for rental.
>
> just curious, why are you looking to retire the barographs? if you're
> wanting your renters to be able to do closed course silver and gold
> distance legs you can get some FlywithCE recorders (~$120 at Wings and
> Wheels) to use in conjunction with the barographs. *They have been
> approved as "Position Recorders" in the USA to replace cameras and
> turnpoint photos. *Of course the Barograph alone is still all you need
> to do free distance silver, gold and diamond distance and altitude
> gains and silver duration.

Tony,

Getting a Badge Candidate set up with barograph is a task no one seems
eager to undertake. Then there are the periodic calibrations required
and the interpretation of the trace. The width of the line seems
important some times. Does anyone know if the LXNAV Nano will require
periodic calibrations for badge use?

Carl

[Jim Beckman[_2_]]

At 02:20 19 November 2010, toad wrote:
>
> Then I tried to do my Silver distance flight. One
>time doing the paper declaration, camera mounted on the window, grease
>pencil mark, etc was enough. I ordered a Colibri as soon as I got
>home from that trip.

I dunno, I managed my Silver Distance (in a 1-26, thank you very much)
with a barograph and a little card for the landing witness to sign. No
camera, no destination declaration, just get in and go. And of course
you're an instant celebrity when you land at the airport at the other end
of the trip in a dumpy little glider. Great experience.

Jim Beckman

[Tony[_5_]]

> Getting a Badge Candidate set up with barograph is a task no one seems
> eager to undertake. *Then there are the periodic calibrations required
> and the interpretation of the trace. *The width of the line seems
> important some times. *Does anyone know if the LXNAV Nano will require
> periodic calibrations for badge use?
>
> Carl

yes all flight recorders require calibration. Barographs must be
calibrated within the preceding year, Electronic Flight Recorders must
be calibrated within the preceding 2 years. If a badge leg is claimed
with either type of recorder out of calibration you have one month to
get it calibrated and submit the data.

there is still setup required for the flight recorder. for the
barograph the OO has to fix the paper to the drum, mark the paper, put
the drum in the barograph and probably scribe a baseline and maybe
make a timing mark. then of course wind the barograph and turn it on.

for the flight recorder they'll have to connect it to their computer,
make sure the pilots name, glider, glider N number and whatever else
is required for the electronic declaration. Since you'll be using
this for renters this will have to be done basically before each
flight. One benefit us private owners have is we can usually set up
the device when we get it and if we always fly the same glider never
worry about it. Having the wrong info in the electronic declaration
risks invalidating the flight, unless a paper declaration is made
after the electronic one. I am paranoid enough about the electronic
flight recorder that I always make a paper declaration just to be
safe.

[Andy[_1_]]

On Nov 18, 12:13*pm, Gregg Leslie > wrote:

>As far as reading a flight. Open Seeyou and open the Nano flight file, and
>your flight loads.

Please tell me that SeeYou is not required to extract an IGC file from
this recorder.

Andy

[Richard[_9_]]

On Nov 19, 6:55*am, Andy > wrote:
> On Nov 18, 12:13*pm, Gregg Leslie > wrote:
>
> >As far as reading a flight. Open Seeyou and open the Nano flight file, and
> >your flight loads.
>
> Please tell me that SeeYou is not required to extract an IGC file from
> this recorder.
>
> Andy

Andy,

Plug the NANO into a USB port on your computer it is identified as a
drive and copy and paste the file.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Tony[_5_]]

On Nov 19, 8:55*am, Andy > wrote:
> On Nov 18, 12:13*pm, Gregg Leslie > wrote:
>
> >As far as reading a flight. Open Seeyou and open the Nano flight file, and
> >your flight loads.
>
> Please tell me that SeeYou is not required to extract an IGC file from
> this recorder.
>
> Andy

no, the Nano connects to your computer just like a USB drive. you
open up the folder and drag/drop the igc file to wherever you want to
save it.

Manual is here: http://www.lxnav.com/downloads/manuals/nanomanualenglishver0100.pdf

[toad]

On Nov 18, 9:37*pm, Tony > wrote:
> it was only complicated because you wanted to fly a closed course :)-

You are right, I did want to do a closed course. I had enough "head
downwind and land somewhere" in my hang glider days.

50km is an easy drive, but Diamond distance is a long time to wait for
the retrieve crew.

Todd

[PCool]

The LX specs for talking to an LX device such as Colibri, LX20 and probably
the Nano (which I don't have, anyway), are not public.
I'll try and ask LX if they can make them public. Winpilot and SeeYou can
talk to LX, because they are or were all part of the same company, I was
told.

paolo



"mike" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
On Nov 18, 10:01 am, Carl6703 > wrote:
> I would like to retire our old Barographs and replace them with a
> portable Flight Recorder that could be rented to candidates for SSA
> badges. Does anyone have any suggestions for a portable flight
> recorder which would meet the badge requirements? Thanks.
>
> Carl Baxter
> Turf Soaring

I have a Nano and it is very easy to use and works well.
Blue Tooth with the Nano works, as does using the serial port with my
HX4700. There is one small hiccup if you are using XCSoar or LK8000.
So far declaring a task using LK8000 or XCSoar has not been possible.
The easy work around is using Navetir ConnectMe, which is a free
program, to declare tasks via your IPAQ just prior to take off. Of
course task inputs using a home or laptop computer are easy as well.

Mike "0"

[Darryl Ramm]

On Nov 19, 11:38*am, "PCool" > wrote:
> The LX specs for talking to an LX device such as Colibri, LX20 and probably
> the Nano (which I don't have, anyway), are not public.
> I'll try and ask LX if they can make them public. Winpilot and SeeYou can
> talk to LX, because they are or were all part of the same company, I was
> told.
>
> paolo
>
> "mike" > ha scritto nel ...
> On Nov 18, 10:01 am, Carl6703 > wrote:
>
> > I would like to retire our old Barographs and replace them with a
> > portable Flight Recorder that could be rented to candidates for SSA
> > badges. Does anyone have any suggestions for a portable flight
> > recorder which would meet the badge requirements? Thanks.
>
> > Carl Baxter
> > Turf Soaring
>
> I have a Nano and it is very easy to use and works well.
> Blue Tooth with the Nano works, as does using the serial port with my
> HX4700. There is one small hiccup if you are using XCSoar or LK8000.
> So far declaring a task using LK8000 or XCSoar has not been possible.
> The easy work around is using Navetir ConnectMe, which is a free
> program, *to declare tasks via your IPAQ just prior to take off. Of
> course task inputs using a home or laptop computer are easy as well.
>
> Mike "0"

That would be nice, I'm not sure why LX (or the various companies spun
off now) do not publicity document their protocols/NMEA extensions
etc.

Failing that a terminal emulator capturing the serial port stream
should also tell you what you need to know.

Naviter has a close relationship to the LX companies but AFAIK
Winpilot does not and never had.

Darryl

[mattm[_2_]]

On Nov 19, 3:24*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On Nov 19, 11:38*am, "PCool" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > The LX specs for talking to an LX device such as Colibri, LX20 and probably
> > the Nano (which I don't have, anyway), are not public.
> > I'll try and ask LX if they can make them public. Winpilot and SeeYou can
> > talk to LX, because they are or were all part of the same company, I was
> > told.
>
> > paolo
>
> > "mike" > ha scritto nel ...
> > On Nov 18, 10:01 am, Carl6703 > wrote:
>
> > > I would like to retire our old Barographs and replace them with a
> > > portable Flight Recorder that could be rented to candidates for SSA
> > > badges. Does anyone have any suggestions for a portable flight
> > > recorder which would meet the badge requirements? Thanks.
>
> > > Carl Baxter
> > > Turf Soaring
>
> > I have a Nano and it is very easy to use and works well.
> > Blue Tooth with the Nano works, as does using the serial port with my
> > HX4700. There is one small hiccup if you are using XCSoar or LK8000.
> > So far declaring a task using LK8000 or XCSoar has not been possible.
> > The easy work around is using Navetir ConnectMe, which is a free
> > program, *to declare tasks via your IPAQ just prior to take off. Of
> > course task inputs using a home or laptop computer are easy as well.
>
> > Mike "0"
>
> That would be nice, I'm not sure why LX (or the various companies spun
> off now) do not publicity document their protocols/NMEA extensions
> etc.
>
> Failing that a terminal emulator capturing the serial port stream
> should also tell you what you need to know.
>
> Naviter has a close relationship to the LX companies but AFAIK
> Winpilot does not and never had.
>
> Darryl

Try http://lxnavigation.de/avionics/manuals_de.php
I was able to download a manual containing the definitions of the
LXWPx
sentences. The details of the upload and download protocols
aren't available that I know of, however.

-- Matt

[Carl6703[_2_]]

On Nov 19, 5:38*am, Tony > wrote:
> > Getting a Badge Candidate set up with barograph is a task no one seems
> > eager to undertake. *Then there are the periodic calibrations required
> > and the interpretation of the trace. *The width of the line seems
> > important some times. *Does anyone know if the LXNAV Nano will require
> > periodic calibrations for badge use?
>
> > Carl
>
> yes all flight recorders require calibration. *Barographs must be
> calibrated within the preceding year, Electronic Flight Recorders must
> be calibrated within the preceding 2 years. *If a badge leg is claimed
> with either type of recorder out of calibration you have one month to
> get it calibrated and submit the data.
>
> there is still setup required for the flight recorder. for the
> barograph the OO has to fix the paper to the drum, mark the paper, put
> the drum in the barograph and probably scribe a baseline and maybe
> make a timing mark. *then of course wind the barograph and turn it on.
>
> for the flight recorder they'll have to connect it to their computer,
> make sure the pilots name, glider, glider N number and whatever else
> is required for the electronic declaration. *Since you'll be using
> this for renters this will have to be done basically before each
> flight. One benefit us private owners have is we can usually set up
> the device when we get it and if we always fly the same glider never
> worry about it. *Having the wrong info in the electronic declaration
> risks invalidating the flight, unless a paper declaration is made
> after the electronic one. *I am paranoid enough about the electronic
> flight recorder that I always make a paper declaration just to be
> safe.

Tony,

Who provides calibration service for the Nano? Does it take so much
time that I might need 2 Nanos to cover when one is out for
calibration? My feeling is that I can get OO's to do the electronic
setup easier than I can get them to do the barograph drill.

Carl

[Richard[_9_]]

On Nov 19, 2:49*pm, Carl6703 > wrote:
> On Nov 19, 5:38*am, Tony > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > Getting a Badge Candidate set up with barograph is a task no one seems
> > > eager to undertake. *Then there are the periodic calibrations required
> > > and the interpretation of the trace. *The width of the line seems
> > > important some times. *Does anyone know if the LXNAV Nano will require
> > > periodic calibrations for badge use?
>
> > > Carl
>
> > yes all flight recorders require calibration. *Barographs must be
> > calibrated within the preceding year, Electronic Flight Recorders must
> > be calibrated within the preceding 2 years. *If a badge leg is claimed
> > with either type of recorder out of calibration you have one month to
> > get it calibrated and submit the data.
>
> > there is still setup required for the flight recorder. for the
> > barograph the OO has to fix the paper to the drum, mark the paper, put
> > the drum in the barograph and probably scribe a baseline and maybe
> > make a timing mark. *then of course wind the barograph and turn it on..
>
> > for the flight recorder they'll have to connect it to their computer,
> > make sure the pilots name, glider, glider N number and whatever else
> > is required for the electronic declaration. *Since you'll be using
> > this for renters this will have to be done basically before each
> > flight. One benefit us private owners have is we can usually set up
> > the device when we get it and if we always fly the same glider never
> > worry about it. *Having the wrong info in the electronic declaration
> > risks invalidating the flight, unless a paper declaration is made
> > after the electronic one. *I am paranoid enough about the electronic
> > flight recorder that I always make a paper declaration just to be
> > safe.
>
> Tony,
>
> Who provides calibration service for the Nano? *Does it take so much
> time that I might need 2 Nanos to cover when one is out for
> calibration? *My feeling is that I can get OO's to do the electronic
> setup easier than I can get them to do the barograph drill.
>
> Carl- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Carl,

I can calibrate the NANOs and any other flight recorder. I have be
providing 1 Day Turn on Flight Recorder Calibrations since 2004.

http://www.craggyaero.com/calibrate.htm

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Tony[_5_]]

On Nov 19, 4:49*pm, Carl6703 > wrote:
> On Nov 19, 5:38*am, Tony > wrote:
>
>
>
> > > Getting a Badge Candidate set up with barograph is a task no one seems
> > > eager to undertake. *Then there are the periodic calibrations required
> > > and the interpretation of the trace. *The width of the line seems
> > > important some times. *Does anyone know if the LXNAV Nano will require
> > > periodic calibrations for badge use?
>
> > > Carl
>
> > yes all flight recorders require calibration. *Barographs must be
> > calibrated within the preceding year, Electronic Flight Recorders must
> > be calibrated within the preceding 2 years. *If a badge leg is claimed
> > with either type of recorder out of calibration you have one month to
> > get it calibrated and submit the data.
>
> > there is still setup required for the flight recorder. for the
> > barograph the OO has to fix the paper to the drum, mark the paper, put
> > the drum in the barograph and probably scribe a baseline and maybe
> > make a timing mark. *then of course wind the barograph and turn it on..
>
> > for the flight recorder they'll have to connect it to their computer,
> > make sure the pilots name, glider, glider N number and whatever else
> > is required for the electronic declaration. *Since you'll be using
> > this for renters this will have to be done basically before each
> > flight. One benefit us private owners have is we can usually set up
> > the device when we get it and if we always fly the same glider never
> > worry about it. *Having the wrong info in the electronic declaration
> > risks invalidating the flight, unless a paper declaration is made
> > after the electronic one. *I am paranoid enough about the electronic
> > flight recorder that I always make a paper declaration just to be
> > safe.
>
> Tony,
>
> Who provides calibration service for the Nano? *Does it take so much
> time that I might need 2 Nanos to cover when one is out for
> calibration? *My feeling is that I can get OO's to do the electronic
> setup easier than I can get them to do the barograph drill.
>
> Carl

they come calibrated so you'll be good for the first two years and i'm
pretty sure anyone listed as doing "flight recorders" can do the
calibrations. http://www.ssa.org/files/member/CalibrationLabs.pdf

[Darryl Ramm]

On Nov 19, 1:18*pm, mattm > wrote:
> On Nov 19, 3:24*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 19, 11:38*am, "PCool" > wrote:
>
> > > The LX specs for talking to an LX device such as Colibri, LX20 and probably
> > > the Nano (which I don't have, anyway), are not public.
> > > I'll try and ask LX if they can make them public. Winpilot and SeeYou can
> > > talk to LX, because they are or were all part of the same company, I was
> > > told.
>
> > > paolo
>
> > > "mike" > ha scritto nel ...
> > > On Nov 18, 10:01 am, Carl6703 > wrote:
>
> > > > I would like to retire our old Barographs and replace them with a
> > > > portable Flight Recorder that could be rented to candidates for SSA
> > > > badges. Does anyone have any suggestions for a portable flight
> > > > recorder which would meet the badge requirements? Thanks.
>
> > > > Carl Baxter
> > > > Turf Soaring
>
> > > I have a Nano and it is very easy to use and works well.
> > > Blue Tooth with the Nano works, as does using the serial port with my
> > > HX4700. There is one small hiccup if you are using XCSoar or LK8000.
> > > So far declaring a task using LK8000 or XCSoar has not been possible.
> > > The easy work around is using Navetir ConnectMe, which is a free
> > > program, *to declare tasks via your IPAQ just prior to take off. Of
> > > course task inputs using a home or laptop computer are easy as well.
>
> > > Mike "0"
>
> > That would be nice, I'm not sure why LX (or the various companies spun
> > off now) do not publicity document their protocols/NMEA extensions
> > etc.
>
> > Failing that a terminal emulator capturing the serial port stream
> > should also tell you what you need to know.
>
> > Naviter has a close relationship to the LX companies but AFAIK
> > Winpilot does not and never had.
>
> > Darryl
>
> Tryhttp://lxnavigation.de/avionics/manuals_de.php
> I was able to download a manual containing the definitions of the
> LXWPx
> sentences. *The details of the upload and download protocols
> aren't available that I know of, however.
>
> -- Matt

Matt

I had missed that, you are right the "LX-NMEA" manual on the page you
provided documents the LXWP* NMEA extensions (but not the task
declaration stuff).

Thanks.

Darryl

[Papa3]

On Nov 18, 4:03*pm, "noel.wade" > wrote:
> Just a quick note:
>
> If you wind up not liking the LX NANO (which I haven't had a chance to
> play with yet), I've been VERY happy with my EW Micro Recorder units
> over the last 2 years. *They've performed nearly flawlessly at several
> contests and a big state-records flight this summer. *Super-simple
> operation, with an SD card slot and a single on/off button. *You can
> use the SD Card or a USB cable to plug into the unit and change
> settings or download flight logs. *Runs off of internal batteries or
> can be powered externally. *Easily removable from a glider, I mount
> mine with velcro. *Slightly larger than a deck of cards, and
> lightweight to boot. *Can drive a PDA (GPS NMEA output) and can accept
> flight declarations from most of the PDA/flight computer programs out
> there.
>
> Good luck!
>
> --Noel

While I originally liked the concept of the EW and bought one when it
came out, I've found mine to be a bit spotty in a couple of areas.
One is the task declaration using the SD Card. There's some care
needed in making sure that the right sequence is followed at power-up
to ensure that the task is loaded from the SD Card (if present).
Combine that with the internal battery which seems to kick in even if
I have disconnected external power, and i've had a few misses that
way. Same thing with shutting the unit off and ensuring I have the
log file on the SD Card at the end of the flight. I seem to get it
wrong about half the time. I should mention that I leave the unit
mounted in the glider and do not use any external device (PDA/Laptop)
to connect. It's there purely as a "dumb" backup to my primary
logger.

I fully admit that I may just be a "better fool" than was envisaged
for an otherwise foolproof device. Wondering if others have had
similar concerns.

Erik Mann
P3

[T8]

On Nov 20, 8:06*am, Papa3 > wrote:
> On Nov 18, 4:03*pm, "noel.wade" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Just a quick note:
>
> > If you wind up not liking the LX NANO (which I haven't had a chance to
> > play with yet), I've been VERY happy with my EW Micro Recorder units
> > over the last 2 years. *They've performed nearly flawlessly at several
> > contests and a big state-records flight this summer. *Super-simple
> > operation, with an SD card slot and a single on/off button. *You can
> > use the SD Card or a USB cable to plug into the unit and change
> > settings or download flight logs. *Runs off of internal batteries or
> > can be powered externally. *Easily removable from a glider, I mount
> > mine with velcro. *Slightly larger than a deck of cards, and
> > lightweight to boot. *Can drive a PDA (GPS NMEA output) and can accept
> > flight declarations from most of the PDA/flight computer programs out
> > there.
>
> > Good luck!
>
> > --Noel
>
> While I originally liked the concept of the EW and bought one when it
> came out, I've found mine to be a bit spotty in a couple of areas.
> One is the task declaration using the SD Card. * There's some care
> needed in making sure that the right sequence is followed at power-up
> to ensure that the task is loaded from the SD Card (if present).
> Combine that with the internal battery which seems to kick in even if
> I have disconnected external power, and i've had a few misses that
> way. *Same thing with shutting the unit off and ensuring I have the
> log file on the SD Card at the end of the flight. * I seem to get it
> wrong about half the time. *I should mention that I leave the unit
> mounted in the glider and do not use any external device (PDA/Laptop)
> to connect. *It's there purely as a "dumb" backup to my primary
> logger.
>
> I fully admit that I may just be a "better fool" than was envisaged
> for an otherwise foolproof device. Wondering if others have had
> similar concerns.
>
> Erik Mann
> P3

With a backup recorder in the glider, you are probably better off with
a paper declaration.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

[Papa3]

On Nov 20, 8:45*am, T8 > wrote:
> On Nov 20, 8:06*am, Papa3 > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 18, 4:03*pm, "noel.wade" > wrote:
>
> > > Just a quick note:
>
> > > If you wind up not liking the LX NANO (which I haven't had a chance to
> > > play with yet), I've been VERY happy with my EW Micro Recorder units
> > > over the last 2 years. *They've performed nearly flawlessly at several
> > > contests and a big state-records flight this summer. *Super-simple
> > > operation, with an SD card slot and a single on/off button. *You can
> > > use the SD Card or a USB cable to plug into the unit and change
> > > settings or download flight logs. *Runs off of internal batteries or
> > > can be powered externally. *Easily removable from a glider, I mount
> > > mine with velcro. *Slightly larger than a deck of cards, and
> > > lightweight to boot. *Can drive a PDA (GPS NMEA output) and can accept
> > > flight declarations from most of the PDA/flight computer programs out
> > > there.
>
> > > Good luck!
>
> > > --Noel
>
> > While I originally liked the concept of the EW and bought one when it
> > came out, I've found mine to be a bit spotty in a couple of areas.
> > One is the task declaration using the SD Card. * There's some care
> > needed in making sure that the right sequence is followed at power-up
> > to ensure that the task is loaded from the SD Card (if present).
> > Combine that with the internal battery which seems to kick in even if
> > I have disconnected external power, and i've had a few misses that
> > way. *Same thing with shutting the unit off and ensuring I have the
> > log file on the SD Card at the end of the flight. * I seem to get it
> > wrong about half the time. *I should mention that I leave the unit
> > mounted in the glider and do not use any external device (PDA/Laptop)
> > to connect. *It's there purely as a "dumb" backup to my primary
> > logger.
>
> > I fully admit that I may just be a "better fool" than was envisaged
> > for an otherwise foolproof device. Wondering if others have had
> > similar concerns.
>
> > Erik Mann
> > P3
>
> With a backup recorder in the glider, you are probably better off with
> a paper declaration.
>
> -Evan Ludeman / T8

Hi Evan,

You know me better than that :-)

While you're right that a paper declaration is sometimes safer, there
are a number of situations where where an electronic declaration is
needed. The problem I have with the EW is largely that I can't
always be sure that there is nothing in the declaration. For
instance, I have a null (blank) declaration on the SD card that should
overwrite what's on the EW. That should work... unless, I somehow
get the boot sequence wrong. Or, I've decided to change the task at
the last minute, and I want to make sure I'm "official" in that both
FRs have the same task. Or, I'm trying for a category of record that
requires an electronic declaration.

I guess my point is just that a reliable declaration process in an FR
is a pretty important thing IMO.

[Darryl Ramm]

On Nov 20, 11:54*am, Papa3 > wrote:
> On Nov 20, 8:45*am, T8 > wrote:
>
> > On Nov 20, 8:06*am, Papa3 > wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 18, 4:03*pm, "noel.wade" > wrote:
[snip]
> Hi Evan,
>
> You know me better than that *:-)
>
> While you're right that a paper declaration is sometimes safer, there
> are a number of situations where where an electronic declaration is
> needed. * The problem I have with the EW is largely that I can't
> always be sure that there is nothing in the declaration. * For
> instance, I have a null (blank) declaration on the SD card that should
> overwrite what's on the EW. * That should work... unless, I somehow
> get the boot sequence wrong. * Or, I've decided to change the task at
> the last minute, and I want to make sure I'm "official" in that both
> FRs have the same task. * Or, I'm trying for a category of record that
> requires an electronic declaration.
>
> I guess my point is just that a *reliable declaration process in an FR
> is a pretty important thing IMO.

While its nice to have electronic declarations that work reliably
almost everybody will be fine with paper and should be making paper
declarations even if they do an electronic one. The only situation
where that does not apply AFAIK is FAI world records. Right? Most of
us should carry paper forms and do a paper declaration (in addition
and after the electronic declaration is made) ...

BTW many of these usability issues are unneeded pain and is
unfortunately outside the IGC specs so vendors get to invent all sorts
of creative usability problems. e.g some of the EW ones mentioned
here, or the Volkslogger re-time stamping a declaration at power-on
(enough of a trap IMNSHO to warn people off the Volkslogger altogether
if you are doing badges/records) or the older Cambridge GPS (e.g.
Model 20) (not the C302) overwriting declarations in IGC files stored
on the recorder. Some of these are things that the vendors should have
just fixed in the products. BTW on the EW I suspect they tried to make
things automatic and the behavior configurable but ended up confusing
some people with the complexity of settings and sometimes unexpected
behavior.

Personally I like just making a declaration from SeeYou Mobile to the
flight recorder (C302 in my case).

Darryl