"open source" video project for glider ratings

[thing73[_2_]]

Wouldn't it be nice to collectively (amongst all the soaring clubs in
the country) to develop a soaring curriculum aimed at passing the FAA
glider rating writtens (much like King Schools do now for FAA airplane/
helicopter ratings)? We could assign topics to different clubs and
post them to you tube or other video sites. If interested, post to
this usenet.

[Frank Whiteley]

On Nov 19, 11:56*am, thing73 > wrote:
> Wouldn't it be nice to collectively (amongst all the soaring clubs in
> the country) to develop a soaring curriculum aimed at passing the FAA
> glider rating writtens (much like King Schools do now for FAA airplane/
> helicopter ratings)? We could assign topics to different clubs and
> post them to you tube or other video sites. If interested, post to
> this usenet.

e-mail me directly or call 970-330-2050 7am-10pm MT

Frank Whiteley

[[email protected]]

On Nov 19, 6:29*pm, Frank Whiteley > wrote:
> On Nov 19, 11:56*am, thing73 > wrote:
>
> > Wouldn't it be nice to collectively (amongst all the soaring clubs in
> > the country) to develop a soaring curriculum aimed at passing the FAA
> > glider rating writtens (much like King Schools do now for FAA airplane/
> > helicopter ratings)? We could assign topics to different clubs and
> > post them to you tube or other video sites. If interested, post to
> > this usenet.
>
> e-mail me directly or call 970-330-2050 7am-10pm MT
>
> Frank Whiteley

It would be nice, and you think that there would be more responses to
this thread. Combating the decline in our sport should be a top
priorty of the SSA, and this would be a easy way to do it.

From the chatter on this Board, it seems that batteries, trailers, and
new gizmos like FLARM are more important.

aerodyne

[SoaringXCellence]

On Nov 22, 1:34*pm, wrote:
> On Nov 19, 6:29*pm, Frank Whiteley > wrote:
>
> > On Nov 19, 11:56*am, thing73 > wrote:
>
> > > Wouldn't it be nice to collectively (amongst all the soaring clubs in
> > > the country) to develop a soaring curriculum aimed at passing the FAA
> > > glider rating writtens (much like King Schools do now for FAA airplane/
> > > helicopter ratings)? We could assign topics to different clubs and
> > > post them to you tube or other video sites. If interested, post to
> > > this usenet.
>
> > e-mail me directly or call 970-330-2050 7am-10pm MT
>
> > Frank Whiteley
>
> It would be nice, and you think that there would be more responses to
> this thread. *Combating the decline in our sport should be a top
> priorty of the SSA, and this would be a easy way to do it.
>
> From the chatter on this Board, it seems that batteries, trailers, and
> new gizmos like FLARM are more important.
>
> aerodyne

I think that most of the individuals on this newsgroup are already
pilots and the thought of videos for students is not a hot topic.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 11/22/2010 1:34 PM, wrote:
> On Nov 19, 6:29 pm, Frank > wrote:
>> On Nov 19, 11:56 am, > wrote:
>>
>>> Wouldn't it be nice to collectively (amongst all the soaring clubs in
>>> the country) to develop a soaring curriculum aimed at passing the FAA
>>> glider rating writtens (much like King Schools do now for FAA airplane/
>>> helicopter ratings)? We could assign topics to different clubs and
>>> post them to you tube or other video sites. If interested, post to
>>> this usenet.
>>
>> e-mail me directly or call 970-330-2050 7am-10pm MT
>>
>> Frank Whiteley
>
> It would be nice, and you think that there would be more responses to
> this thread. Combating the decline in our sport should be a top
> priorty of the SSA, and this would be a easy way to do it.
>
> From the chatter on this Board, it seems that batteries, trailers, and
> new gizmos like FLARM are more important.

Combating decline is a high priority for the SSA, but this isn't the SSA
here. It's a bunch of pilots from around the world. I know a lot of the
SSA people here, and I'm sure they are, as I am, concerned about the
decline in membership. But ... they, like me, are not likely to be
interested in stopping it by making student videos; instead, we all
contribute in our own way.

Speaking personally, I've been the club CFIG for 16 years, a Regional
director for 6 years, and contributed money and time obtaining and
retaining members for decades. Still, I have no interest or expertise in
making training videos for students.

Don't lose heart; instead, try a different venue. I suggest sending an
email to every club and commercial training group in the country, or
better yet, start by contacting the SSA Growth and Development
Committee. Those are the places where you are likely to find support for
the concept.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

[Chris Nicholas[_2_]]

As Eric as pointed out, this is a world wide forum, not exclusively
USA. As a UK glider pilot, I'm interested in this subject, but have no
expertise to produce training videos myself.

It seems to me that much of this subject matter would be of
potentially common use throughout the world. I suspect that only a
minority of the relevant information would be country specific, such
as some aspects of air law.

I have seen some training material, for example on theory of flight
etc, produced by other people, but I do not have a library of it
myself. If there is interest in sharing a worldwide database, I could
put out an enquiry among UK pilots and clubs to see what might be
available for sharing.

Please let me know if anyone is interested.

What about Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa, or anywhere
else?

Chris N

[Frank Whiteley]

On Nov 22, 2:34*pm, wrote:
> On Nov 19, 6:29*pm, Frank Whiteley > wrote:
>
> > On Nov 19, 11:56*am, thing73 > wrote:
>
> > > Wouldn't it be nice to collectively (amongst all the soaring clubs in
> > > the country) to develop a soaring curriculum aimed at passing the FAA
> > > glider rating writtens (much like King Schools do now for FAA airplane/
> > > helicopter ratings)? We could assign topics to different clubs and
> > > post them to you tube or other video sites. If interested, post to
> > > this usenet.
>
> > e-mail me directly or call 970-330-2050 7am-10pm MT
>
> > Frank Whiteley
>
> It would be nice, and you think that there would be more responses to
> this thread. *Combating the decline in our sport should be a top
> priorty of the SSA, and this would be a easy way to do it.
>
> From the chatter on this Board, it seems that batteries, trailers, and
> new gizmos like FLARM are more important.
>
> aerodyne

Can't even get a reply from the OP despite attempts on and off group.
Anyone know who he is? There are similar things happening out there
and I'd hoped to inform him how this might dovetail with what he
suggests.

Frank Whiteley

[[email protected]]

On Nov 19, 1:56*pm, thing73 > wrote:
> Wouldn't it be nice to collectively (amongst all the soaring clubs in
> the country) to develop a soaring curriculum aimed at passing the FAA
> glider rating writtens (much like King Schools do now for FAA airplane/
> helicopter ratings)? We could assign topics to different clubs and
> post them to you tube or other video sites. If interested, post to
> this usenet.

Much of the required subject matter is the same as for airplanes. The
available resources from King, Sportys, whatever
are readily available. The only areas that vary are specifically
related to glider flying, I would guess something like 20%.
That subject matter is quite well covered by publications available
from Wander, Knauff & Grove, or others.
But, it isn't free and available on You Tube.
I suspect most of the really qualified authors of such a curriculum
likely would not be doing this for free, and hurting their text book
sales.
Sorry for cold water on your topic.
UH

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 11/23/2010 5:32 AM, wrote:
> On Nov 19, 1:56 pm, > wrote:
>> Wouldn't it be nice to collectively (amongst all the soaring clubs in
>> the country) to develop a soaring curriculum aimed at passing the FAA
>> glider rating writtens (much like King Schools do now for FAA airplane/
>> helicopter ratings)? We could assign topics to different clubs and
>> post them to you tube or other video sites. If interested, post to
>> this usenet.
>
> Much of the required subject matter is the same as for airplanes. The
> available resources from King, Sportys, whatever
> are readily available. The only areas that vary are specifically
> related to glider flying, I would guess something like 20%.
> That subject matter is quite well covered by publications available
> from Wander, Knauff& Grove, or others.
> But, it isn't free and available on You Tube.
> I suspect most of the really qualified authors of such a curriculum
> likely would not be doing this for free, and hurting their text book
> sales.
> Sorry for cold water on your topic.

I'm not sure a student could learn just from videos, so perhaps the
videos (especially the first ones) should complement, instead of
attempting to replace, available texts. This might encourage some
encouragement from, coordination with, or even active participation by
the commercial authors.

I suspect useful videos of many aspects might be made using simulators
rather than live action. Videos could be produced this way much more
quickly, easily, and cheaply than going to the gliding club and climbing
into a glider. Good winter time fun, too!

At the very least, if might be a good way to "storyboard" what you want
the ultimate video to do, then go out and fly just the scenes you want.
Again, quicker, easier, cheaper.

I'll bet there some simulation proponents that would love to be involved.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what
you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

[harold]

On Fri, 19 Nov 2010 10:56:45 -0800 (PST), thing73
> wrote:

>Wouldn't it be nice to collectively (amongst all the soaring clubs in
>the country) to develop a soaring curriculum aimed at passing the FAA
>glider rating writtens (much like King Schools do now for FAA airplane/
>helicopter ratings)? We could assign topics to different clubs and
>post them to you tube or other video sites. If interested, post to
>this usenet.

You may be re-inventing the wheel with this. Bob Wander teamed up
with Sporty's to create a DVD entitled "So you want to Fly Gliders".
It is only 39.95 and it is also available for download. Here is a
link to the video:
http://sportys.com/PilotShop/product/9046

P.S. I have no relation with Sporty's..

[sisu1a]

> I suspect useful videos of many aspects might be made using simulators
> rather than live action. Videos could be produced this way much more
> quickly, easily, and cheaply than going to the gliding club and climbing
> into a glider. Good winter time fun, too!

I think you are on to something here Eric, but I will emphasize it a
slightly different direction. Rather than a production geared at
trying to teach stick&rudder/rules&regs etc using any old sim, what
about a decent video tutorial series on how to use Condor for
legitimate training rather than just playing a video game. Kinda like
Frank's (excellent) Condor Corner in Soaring Magazine, but a video
version specifically geared towards steering non-rated pilots (and
beyond...) towards realistic scenarios/settings/hardware
recommendations, resulting in safe and applicable habits. This could
easily be non-regional, and there are many thousands of Condor pilots
already out there. The cash investment to bring it up to minimum level
is really small compared to actual training, and could significantly
reduce the time/$ needed for prospective pilots to achieve their
rating. It also keeps people that can't afford to fly current and
interested... I've got lots to share for the hardware tutorial ;)

Related note- my own simpit is getting pretty immersive. Easily and
cheaply made from a recumbent Schwinn exercise bike (model 205p:
http://tinyurl.com/24l2wnf :), which seem readily available for $20-
$50 on craigslist etc. It is really easy to move around since I put
wheels on it, and this thing is *very solid, with a fully adjustable
seat (had my 6'2" 270lb friend flying it no prob). I'm trying to make
it really easy/cheap to follow suit as well. Just about to get the
release knob wired up. I bought some Aeronca Champ pedals on ebay and
did some quick/dirty hardware work/joystick hacking and wala! I park
it in front of my projector screen and it's getting very satisfying.
I'm going to make a separate post with pics etc about this soon, but
in a nutshell...

tl:dr: A video version of 'Condor Corner' geared towards getting
individuals able to use Condor as a *real training/currency tool for
the ab-initio and beyond

-Paul

[bildan]

On Nov 23, 1:34*pm, sisu1a > wrote:
> > I suspect useful videos of many aspects might be made using simulators
> > rather than live action. Videos could be produced this way much more
> > quickly, easily, and cheaply than going to the gliding club and climbing
> > into a glider. Good winter time fun, too!
>
> I think you are on to something here Eric, but I will emphasize it a
> slightly different direction. Rather than a production geared at
> trying to teach stick&rudder/rules&regs etc using any old sim, what
> about a decent video tutorial series on how to use Condor for
> legitimate training rather than just playing a video game. Kinda like
> Frank's (excellent) Condor Corner in Soaring Magazine, but a video
> version specifically geared towards steering non-rated pilots (and
> beyond...) towards realistic scenarios/settings/hardware
> recommendations, resulting in safe and applicable habits. This could
> easily be non-regional, and there are many thousands of Condor pilots
> already out there. The cash investment to bring it up to minimum level
> is really small compared to actual training, and could significantly
> reduce the time/$ needed for prospective pilots to achieve their
> rating. It also keeps people that can't afford to fly current and
> interested... *I've got lots to share for the hardware tutorial ;)
>
> Related note- my own simpit is getting pretty immersive. Easily and
> cheaply made from a recumbent Schwinn exercise bike (model 205p:http://tinyurl.com/24l2wnf*:), which seem readily available for $20-
> $50 on craigslist etc. It is really easy to move around since I put
> wheels on it, and this thing is *very solid, with a fully adjustable
> seat (had my 6'2" 270lb friend flying it no prob). I'm trying to make
> it really easy/cheap to follow suit as well. Just about to get the
> release knob wired up. I bought some Aeronca Champ pedals on ebay and
> did some quick/dirty hardware work/joystick hacking and wala! I park
> it in front of my projector screen and it's getting very satisfying.
> I'm going to make a separate post with pics etc about this soon, but
> in a nutshell...
>
> tl:dr: A video version of 'Condor Corner' geared towards getting
> individuals able to use Condor as a *real training/currency tool for
> the ab-initio and beyond
>
> -Paul

Now this is something I like. Video + Condor integrated training
suite.

However, I don't think a video will ever replace a real live flight
instructor even with Condor. If the student is doing something wrong,
the video can't analyze the student's performance and offer a critique.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 11/23/2010 12:49 PM, bildan wrote:
> On Nov 23, 1:34 pm, > wrote:
>>> I suspect useful videos of many aspects might be made using simulators
>>> rather than live action. Videos could be produced this way much more
>>> quickly, easily, and cheaply than going to the gliding club and climbing
>>> into a glider. Good winter time fun, too!
>>
>> I think you are on to something here Eric, but I will emphasize it a
>> slightly different direction. Rather than a production geared at
>> trying to teach stick&rudder/rules&regs etc using any old sim, what
>> about a decent video tutorial series on how to use Condor for
>> legitimate training rather than just playing a video game. Kinda like
>> Frank's (excellent) Condor Corner in Soaring Magazine, but a video
>> version specifically geared towards steering non-rated pilots (and
>> beyond...) towards realistic scenarios/settings/hardware
>> recommendations, resulting in safe and applicable habits.
snip
>>
>> tl:dr: A video version of 'Condor Corner' geared towards getting
>> individuals able to use Condor as a *real training/currency tool for
>> the ab-initio and beyond
>>
>> -Paul
>
> Now this is something I like. Video + Condor integrated training
> suite.
>
> However, I don't think a video will ever replace a real live flight
> instructor even with Condor. If the student is doing something wrong,
> the video can't analyze the student's performance and offer a critique.

Could a real, live instructor snow bound in Boulder have his student
(snow bound in Fort Collins) fly Condor, while the instructor's monitor
displays the student's flight, and talk to the student while he's doing
it? All on his computer?

I imagine him "flying" with two or three students at once, or the other
students "going along for the ride" while he instructs one of them.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 11/23/2010 1:28 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 11/23/2010 12:49 PM, bildan wrote:

>> However, I don't think a video will ever replace a real live flight
>> instructor even with Condor. If the student is doing something wrong,
>> the video can't analyze the student's performance and offer a critique.
>
> Could a real, live instructor snow bound in Boulder have his student
> (snow bound in Fort Collins) fly Condor, while the instructor's monitor
> displays the student's flight, and talk to the student while he's doing
> it? All on his computer?
>
> I imagine him "flying" with two or three students at once, or the other
> students "going along for the ride" while he instructs one of them.

Here's a fun idea: Tom Knauff gives intensive ridge running instruction,
in the middle of the worst winter storm Pennsylvania has ever seen, to a
pilot in Florida, using Condor and the internet. Tom gets some income,
the pilot gets some great instruction, and is 96% up to speed before he
even gets to the ridge next April.

Or maybe a Minden wave flight between 20,000 and 30,000 with Gordon or Jim?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what
you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

[RL]

FWIW – Philadelphia Glider Council conducts a very comprehensive
ground school that is a close equivalent to a King or Sporty’s
training course. It’s a 20-hour program that fulfils the FAA ground
instruction requirements and provides an excellent tutorial for both
the private and commercial written exam. It’s not on video (yet), but
the faculty uses some rather sophisticated PowerPoint presentations
and the subject matter has been well refined over the years. Here are
the topics that are keyed to the FAR requirements:

- Weather Services
- Critical Weather
- Flight Instruments
- Pre-Flight Procedures
- Sailplane Aerodynamics
- Effects of Density Altitude
- Flight Limitations
- Emergency Procedures
- Off-Field Landings
- Aeromedical Factors
- Aeronautical Decision Making
- Collision Avoidance
- Cross-Country Planning
- Sectional Charts
- The Airspace System
- Communications
- Weight & Balance
- Pilot Privileges
- FAR’s for Glider Pilots
- Documents & Certificates
- Flight Maneuvers
- Prepping for the Checkride

If there is a need and some glider community interest maybe we would
consider developing a video format.

Bob

[Paul Remde]

Hi Eric,

Scott Manley has done some remote Condor flight instruction, but he could
not see the pilot's screen. They both flew similar flights at the same
time. He tried web conferencing to screen share, but it was too slow. You
can screenshare with Skype for free, but I don't think it would be fast
enough for instruction. Someday that will be a nice option. It would be
possible now if Condor could share only the glider position, etc. over a web
connection - as is done in the Condor contest flying. But it doesn't
currently support remote connections for instruction. It would also be cool
if the instructor could be flying from the back seat! Maybe if enough
people ask Condor for that feature they will put it in.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde

"Eric Greenwell" > wrote in message
...
> On 11/23/2010 12:49 PM, bildan wrote:
>> On Nov 23, 1:34 pm, > wrote:
>>>> I suspect useful videos of many aspects might be made using simulators
>>>> rather than live action. Videos could be produced this way much more
>>>> quickly, easily, and cheaply than going to the gliding club and
>>>> climbing
>>>> into a glider. Good winter time fun, too!
>>>
>>> I think you are on to something here Eric, but I will emphasize it a
>>> slightly different direction. Rather than a production geared at
>>> trying to teach stick&rudder/rules&regs etc using any old sim, what
>>> about a decent video tutorial series on how to use Condor for
>>> legitimate training rather than just playing a video game. Kinda like
>>> Frank's (excellent) Condor Corner in Soaring Magazine, but a video
>>> version specifically geared towards steering non-rated pilots (and
>>> beyond...) towards realistic scenarios/settings/hardware
>>> recommendations, resulting in safe and applicable habits.
> snip
>>>
>>> tl:dr: A video version of 'Condor Corner' geared towards getting
>>> individuals able to use Condor as a *real training/currency tool for
>>> the ab-initio and beyond
>>>
>>> -Paul
>>
>> Now this is something I like. Video + Condor integrated training
>> suite.
>>
>> However, I don't think a video will ever replace a real live flight
>> instructor even with Condor. If the student is doing something wrong,
>> the video can't analyze the student's performance and offer a critique.
>
> Could a real, live instructor snow bound in Boulder have his student (snow
> bound in Fort Collins) fly Condor, while the instructor's monitor displays
> the student's flight, and talk to the student while he's doing it? All on
> his computer?
>
> I imagine him "flying" with two or three students at once, or the other
> students "going along for the ride" while he instructs one of them.
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email
> me)

[bildan]

On Nov 23, 2:28*pm, Eric Greenwell > wrote:

> Could a real, live instructor snow bound in Boulder have his student
> (snow bound in Fort Collins) fly Condor, while the instructor's monitor
> displays the student's flight, and talk to the student while he's doing
> it? All on his computer?

I think this can be done with current software on a 1:1 basis if the
instructor only sees the condor screen. However, I'm concerned some
cues might be missed by the instructor without the ability to actually
watch the student as well as the simulator.

What does work is a classroom setting with one student 'flying' and
several other watching the performance. Students sometimes learn more
from others mistakes than from an instructors perfect demonstration.
It also sometimes helps a students self confidence to see others
making the same mistakes.

At its simplest, a flight simulator can be used as an "animated white
board" where the instructor describes a maneuver while flying the
simulator. This is actually very useful.

If the student is to fly the simulator, the "simpit", as Paul calls
it, has to be at least a fair analogue of a real glider. You don't
need a 360 degree dome projection or a motion base but the flight
controls have to be realistically placed with plausible force feedback.