Rebuilding my KR-2

[Forrest]

The following is an email I sent to Jim Weir of KitPlanes Magazine.



Jim requested that I post my message to this newsgroup and and open these
issues up for discussion. I'm the new guy to aviation.



Your Areo 'Lectrics column is like a much needed refresher course in
electronics for me. And of all of the magazines that find their way into my
house the only column I always make it a point to read is yours. Thank you.

I have about 20 hours on my student log book and recently bought a KR2
from my local chapter of EAA. It is in kind of rough shape an has only
basic instrumentation - from left to right as follows; oil temp., VSI, ASI,
oil pressure, altitude, RPM, magnetic compass, turn coordinator. There is
no electrical system and no lights anywhere. I'm sanding five coats of
paint, primer, excess fiberglass, and unnecessary Bondo from the exterior.
The 100hp Continental engine has about 25 hrs. on a complete rebuild. It
seemed to be a good buy at two pecks of saved loose pocket change. By the
way I'll be christening the craft "Two Pecks".

Getting to the point, I've been reading and down loading from your home
pages on the web since flying is brand new to me. The idea is to be able to
afford the time to go see my Mom more regularly while she is still around.
She lives 800 miles from me and the rest of my family doesn't live any
closer. So, I want my plane to be able to make the trip with as many safety
features as possible (pilot included, of course). And I want the good stuff
at the "Weir Twofer $pecial." The thing is that you have such an excellent
variety of things one can do that I have gotten a bit overwhelmed. I don't
know what to do first or which variation to put my energy into.

Here are a few of the things I have in mind for Two Pecks. LED nav.
lights with appropriate flashers, one electronic ignition and one mag.,
electric start, electronic fuel gauges, nav. radio (was that little 2 1\2"
instrument hole plugger really a radio?! I couldn't find the article that
said where to get one), transponder, CHT, EGT, OAT, carb air temp.,
alternator voltage, GPS, LED dash lights, LED map light, a good two place
head set jacks, the right size battery arrangement, a good circuit breaker
set (I like that auto reset gizmo with the cut out switches), Oh! and that
battery charger with temperature compensation looks pretty nifty too. Did I
forget anything?

What comes to mind now is that I feel like I'm writing my wish list to
Santa Clause. What would really be great is if you happen to have a book
that spells these things out step by step with a direct purchase parts
catalog or a mail order list. Granted, your parts list is pretty thorough.

I'm sure that you have a conceptual understanding of limited
availability on time, yet here I am writing to you with a thesis on my
latest disbursal. I guess I'll get all of this worked out in due time. If
you are so inclined as to respond with what to do or not do next, or maybe
which projects to pick or leave, I would be ever grateful.

Incidentally, will the Palm Pilot programs for GPS nav. aids etc. work
on my "Visor" palm computer?

I think I'll try to figure out how to do the navigation lights next
since that will effect the body work and paint job.



Thank you for your time,

Forrest

[Big John]

Forest

Suggest you weigh your bird and see how much extra 'junk' <G> you
have the available weight to install and not exceed max gross with
pasengers and fuel.

Some of the experts here can then give you good advice of what you
need and the priorities to install.

Also get some help and go through the bird with a fine tooth comb
before putting a lot of time and money into goodies.


Big John


On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 20:09:52 GMT, "Forrest" > wrote:

>The following is an email I sent to Jim Weir of KitPlanes Magazine.
>
>
>
>Jim requested that I post my message to this newsgroup and and open these
>issues up for discussion. I'm the new guy to aviation.
>
>
>
> Your Areo 'Lectrics column is like a much needed refresher course in
>electronics for me. And of all of the magazines that find their way into my
>house the only column I always make it a point to read is yours. Thank you.
>
> I have about 20 hours on my student log book and recently bought a KR2
>from my local chapter of EAA. It is in kind of rough shape an has only
>basic instrumentation - from left to right as follows; oil temp., VSI, ASI,
>oil pressure, altitude, RPM, magnetic compass, turn coordinator. There is
>no electrical system and no lights anywhere. I'm sanding five coats of
>paint, primer, excess fiberglass, and unnecessary Bondo from the exterior.
>The 100hp Continental engine has about 25 hrs. on a complete rebuild. It
>seemed to be a good buy at two pecks of saved loose pocket change. By the
>way I'll be christening the craft "Two Pecks".
>
> Getting to the point, I've been reading and down loading from your home
>pages on the web since flying is brand new to me. The idea is to be able to
>afford the time to go see my Mom more regularly while she is still around.
>She lives 800 miles from me and the rest of my family doesn't live any
>closer. So, I want my plane to be able to make the trip with as many safety
>features as possible (pilot included, of course). And I want the good stuff
>at the "Weir Twofer $pecial." The thing is that you have such an excellent
>variety of things one can do that I have gotten a bit overwhelmed. I don't
>know what to do first or which variation to put my energy into.
>
> Here are a few of the things I have in mind for Two Pecks. LED nav.
>lights with appropriate flashers, one electronic ignition and one mag.,
>electric start, electronic fuel gauges, nav. radio (was that little 2 1\2"
>instrument hole plugger really a radio?! I couldn't find the article that
>said where to get one), transponder, CHT, EGT, OAT, carb air temp.,
>alternator voltage, GPS, LED dash lights, LED map light, a good two place
>head set jacks, the right size battery arrangement, a good circuit breaker
>set (I like that auto reset gizmo with the cut out switches), Oh! and that
>battery charger with temperature compensation looks pretty nifty too. Did I
>forget anything?
>
> What comes to mind now is that I feel like I'm writing my wish list to
>Santa Clause. What would really be great is if you happen to have a book
>that spells these things out step by step with a direct purchase parts
>catalog or a mail order list. Granted, your parts list is pretty thorough.
>
> I'm sure that you have a conceptual understanding of limited
>availability on time, yet here I am writing to you with a thesis on my
>latest disbursal. I guess I'll get all of this worked out in due time. If
>you are so inclined as to respond with what to do or not do next, or maybe
>which projects to pick or leave, I would be ever grateful.
>
> Incidentally, will the Palm Pilot programs for GPS nav. aids etc. work
>on my "Visor" palm computer?
>
> I think I'll try to figure out how to do the navigation lights next
>since that will effect the body work and paint job.
>
>
>
>Thank you for your time,
>
>Forrest
>

[Stealth Pilot]

On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 20:09:52 GMT, "Forrest" > wrote:

>The following is an email I sent to Jim Weir of KitPlanes Magazine.
>
>
>
>Jim requested that I post my message to this newsgroup and and open these
>issues up for discussion. I'm the new guy to aviation.
>
>
Forrest
having read your wish list you need two aeroplanes (seriously!)
one in basic day vfr fitout that you can make the commutes over to see
your mum in (this is the real aeroplane)
the other a project that you can dream about, fit all the toys into
and satisfy your creative urges with. (this is the unfinished project
aeroplane)

I'm familiar with the KR2. a friend is rebuilding his after pranging
it. they suit a small light pilot (5ft nothing, jockey build) and dont
have capacity for too much instrumentation without going overweight
and having dog like performance.
the engine will cause you problems. the continental will cause you
weight problems. target engine was an 1850cc or 2150cc VW aero
conversion. cruise is about 140 knots on these.
a jabiru 2200cc engine would be good.

I fly a day vfr tailwind and I have commuted to mom's in it on a
number of occasions. my commute is 1500 nautical miles each way.
I havent needed anything more than the instruments I have and I
wouldnt want any less. the tailwind is fitted with:
airspeed indicator
slip indicator
sensitive altimeter
tacho
artificial horizon.
oil temp
oil pressure
vacuum gauge.
fuel gauge
garmin gps 2 plus.
wrist watch on my wrist.
magnetic compass.

anything beyond that is really just dead weight.
I use everything that is there.
the A/H has got me out of the guano on three weather occasions,
however for most situations it is merely an angle of bank indicator. I
wouldnt be without it.

my practical suggestion for your KR2 is as follows.
find out the design empty weight of the aircraft.
weigh the actual aircraft as it sits.
work out what you have to do to achieve the design empty weight in
your finished aircraft. if you cant achieve it then dont bull**** to
yourself. that isnt the aircraft you should be building.
look for something more practical/more suited.

dont embark on a projest that will see the first flight occurring
after your mum isnt here. stick with something simple and practical
for the real aircraft and build a second whizbang project.

Stealth Pilot (no transponder)
Australia

[Forrest]

Big John

Thanks for the reply. I've taken off the engine, panel, canopy, cowling,
and maybe ten pounds of paint. I was told that the wings and tail have been
extended but I don't know how much. The plane has been flown as configured
when I bought it. I'll be looking for a builders manual someone might be
getting rid of. I may have to break down and buy a new manual when I'm
finished gutting this bird.

It is nice how just this one suggestion gives me enough stable data to keep
my busy little noodle a bit better direction in which to flail for a while.

Thanks, Forrest
"Big John" > wrote in message
...
> Forest
>
> Suggest you weigh your bird and see how much extra 'junk' <G> you
> have the available weight to install and not exceed max gross with
> pasengers and fuel.
>
> Some of the experts here can then give you good advice of what you
> need and the priorities to install.
>
> Also get some help and go through the bird with a fine tooth comb
> before putting a lot of time and money into goodies.
>
>
> Big John
>
>
> On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 20:09:52 GMT, "Forrest" > wrote:
>
> >The following is an email I sent to Jim Weir of KitPlanes Magazine.
> >
> >
> >
> >Jim requested that I post my message to this newsgroup and and open these
> >issues up for discussion. I'm the new guy to aviation.
> >
> >
> >
> > Your Areo 'Lectrics column is like a much needed refresher course in
> >electronics for me. And of all of the magazines that find their way into
my
> >house the only column I always make it a point to read is yours. Thank
you.
> >
> > I have about 20 hours on my student log book and recently bought a
KR2
> >from my local chapter of EAA. It is in kind of rough shape an has only
> >basic instrumentation - from left to right as follows; oil temp., VSI,
ASI,
> >oil pressure, altitude, RPM, magnetic compass, turn coordinator. There
is
> >no electrical system and no lights anywhere. I'm sanding five coats of
> >paint, primer, excess fiberglass, and unnecessary Bondo from the
exterior.
> >The 100hp Continental engine has about 25 hrs. on a complete rebuild. It
> >seemed to be a good buy at two pecks of saved loose pocket change. By
the
> >way I'll be christening the craft "Two Pecks".
> >
> > Getting to the point, I've been reading and down loading from your
home
> >pages on the web since flying is brand new to me. The idea is to be able
to
> >afford the time to go see my Mom more regularly while she is still
around.
> >She lives 800 miles from me and the rest of my family doesn't live any
> >closer. So, I want my plane to be able to make the trip with as many
safety
> >features as possible (pilot included, of course). And I want the good
stuff
> >at the "Weir Twofer $pecial." The thing is that you have such an
excellent
> >variety of things one can do that I have gotten a bit overwhelmed. I
don't
> >know what to do first or which variation to put my energy into.
> >
> > Here are a few of the things I have in mind for Two Pecks. LED nav.
> >lights with appropriate flashers, one electronic ignition and one mag.,
> >electric start, electronic fuel gauges, nav. radio (was that little 2
1\2"
> >instrument hole plugger really a radio?! I couldn't find the article
that
> >said where to get one), transponder, CHT, EGT, OAT, carb air temp.,
> >alternator voltage, GPS, LED dash lights, LED map light, a good two place
> >head set jacks, the right size battery arrangement, a good circuit
breaker
> >set (I like that auto reset gizmo with the cut out switches), Oh! and
that
> >battery charger with temperature compensation looks pretty nifty too.
Did I
> >forget anything?
> >
> > What comes to mind now is that I feel like I'm writing my wish list
to
> >Santa Clause. What would really be great is if you happen to have a book
> >that spells these things out step by step with a direct purchase parts
> >catalog or a mail order list. Granted, your parts list is pretty
thorough.
> >
> > I'm sure that you have a conceptual understanding of limited
> >availability on time, yet here I am writing to you with a thesis on my
> >latest disbursal. I guess I'll get all of this worked out in due time.
If
> >you are so inclined as to respond with what to do or not do next, or
maybe
> >which projects to pick or leave, I would be ever grateful.
> >
> > Incidentally, will the Palm Pilot programs for GPS nav. aids etc.
work
> >on my "Visor" palm computer?
> >
> > I think I'll try to figure out how to do the navigation lights next
> >since that will effect the body work and paint job.
> >
> >
> >
> >Thank you for your time,
> >
> >Forrest
> >
>

[Forrest]

Stealth Pilot

Well, alrightie then. Weight and balance. And 'geared for day is ok'.
It's funny that this isn't the first time I've been told that I'm trying to
expand a humming bird project into a big fat duck. Good point.

Actually, even though only the cabin wall frame is completed, I was in the
process of building a 25% enlargement of the "Marvin Barnard M-19" (kind of
a fiberglass version of a Cub) when the KR2 came up. But the thing is that
I don't know enough about that machine's load capabilities either. Seems
like some education is in order.

The point is to get into the air. I do like the idea of a second airplane.
Four passengers is what I'm really after.

See what happens when you give a kid a piece of paper and say "make a list
for Santa".

Oop! Time to go to work.

Thank you, Forrest

"Stealth Pilot" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 20:09:52 GMT, "Forrest" > wrote:
>
> >The following is an email I sent to Jim Weir of KitPlanes Magazine.
> >
> >
> >
> >Jim requested that I post my message to this newsgroup and and open these
> >issues up for discussion. I'm the new guy to aviation.
> >
> >
> Forrest
> having read your wish list you need two aeroplanes (seriously!)
> one in basic day vfr fitout that you can make the commutes over to see
> your mum in (this is the real aeroplane)
> the other a project that you can dream about, fit all the toys into
> and satisfy your creative urges with. (this is the unfinished project
> aeroplane)
>
> I'm familiar with the KR2. a friend is rebuilding his after pranging
> it. they suit a small light pilot (5ft nothing, jockey build) and dont
> have capacity for too much instrumentation without going overweight
> and having dog like performance.
> the engine will cause you problems. the continental will cause you
> weight problems. target engine was an 1850cc or 2150cc VW aero
> conversion. cruise is about 140 knots on these.
> a jabiru 2200cc engine would be good.
>
> I fly a day vfr tailwind and I have commuted to mom's in it on a
> number of occasions. my commute is 1500 nautical miles each way.
> I havent needed anything more than the instruments I have and I
> wouldnt want any less. the tailwind is fitted with:
> airspeed indicator
> slip indicator
> sensitive altimeter
> tacho
> artificial horizon.
> oil temp
> oil pressure
> vacuum gauge.
> fuel gauge
> garmin gps 2 plus.
> wrist watch on my wrist.
> magnetic compass.
>
> anything beyond that is really just dead weight.
> I use everything that is there.
> the A/H has got me out of the guano on three weather occasions,
> however for most situations it is merely an angle of bank indicator. I
> wouldnt be without it.
>
> my practical suggestion for your KR2 is as follows.
> find out the design empty weight of the aircraft.
> weigh the actual aircraft as it sits.
> work out what you have to do to achieve the design empty weight in
> your finished aircraft. if you cant achieve it then dont bull**** to
> yourself. that isnt the aircraft you should be building.
> look for something more practical/more suited.
>
> dont embark on a projest that will see the first flight occurring
> after your mum isnt here. stick with something simple and practical
> for the real aircraft and build a second whizbang project.
>
> Stealth Pilot (no transponder)
> Australia

[Corrie]

Re "two airplanes:"

I was going to build a VP until the Bowers Fly Baby plans came back on
the market. It's not THAT much more airplane, and I like the looks
better. That's the "before the kids graduate" plane.

The "Somedaymobile" is an Emeraude....

"Forrest" > wrote in message >...
> Stealth Pilot
>
> Well, alrightie then. Weight and balance. And 'geared for day is ok'.
> It's funny that this isn't the first time I've been told that I'm trying to
> expand a humming bird project into a big fat duck. Good point.
>
> Actually, even though only the cabin wall frame is completed, I was in the
> process of building a 25% enlargement of the "Marvin Barnard M-19" (kind of
> a fiberglass version of a Cub) when the KR2 came up. But the thing is that
> I don't know enough about that machine's load capabilities either. Seems
> like some education is in order.
>
> The point is to get into the air. I do like the idea of a second airplane.
> Four passengers is what I'm really after.
>
> See what happens when you give a kid a piece of paper and say "make a list
> for Santa".
>
> Oop! Time to go to work.
>
> Thank you, Forrest
>
> "Stealth Pilot" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 20:09:52 GMT, "Forrest" > wrote:
> >
> > >The following is an email I sent to Jim Weir of KitPlanes Magazine.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Jim requested that I post my message to this newsgroup and and open these
> > >issues up for discussion. I'm the new guy to aviation.
> > >
> > >
> > Forrest
> > having read your wish list you need two aeroplanes (seriously!)
> > one in basic day vfr fitout that you can make the commutes over to see
> > your mum in (this is the real aeroplane)
> > the other a project that you can dream about, fit all the toys into
> > and satisfy your creative urges with. (this is the unfinished project
> > aeroplane)
> >
> > I'm familiar with the KR2. a friend is rebuilding his after pranging
> > it. they suit a small light pilot (5ft nothing, jockey build) and dont
> > have capacity for too much instrumentation without going overweight
> > and having dog like performance.
> > the engine will cause you problems. the continental will cause you
> > weight problems. target engine was an 1850cc or 2150cc VW aero
> > conversion. cruise is about 140 knots on these.
> > a jabiru 2200cc engine would be good.
> >
> > I fly a day vfr tailwind and I have commuted to mom's in it on a
> > number of occasions. my commute is 1500 nautical miles each way.
> > I havent needed anything more than the instruments I have and I
> > wouldnt want any less. the tailwind is fitted with:
> > airspeed indicator
> > slip indicator
> > sensitive altimeter
> > tacho
> > artificial horizon.
> > oil temp
> > oil pressure
> > vacuum gauge.
> > fuel gauge
> > garmin gps 2 plus.
> > wrist watch on my wrist.
> > magnetic compass.
> >
> > anything beyond that is really just dead weight.
> > I use everything that is there.
> > the A/H has got me out of the guano on three weather occasions,
> > however for most situations it is merely an angle of bank indicator. I
> > wouldnt be without it.
> >
> > my practical suggestion for your KR2 is as follows.
> > find out the design empty weight of the aircraft.
> > weigh the actual aircraft as it sits.
> > work out what you have to do to achieve the design empty weight in
> > your finished aircraft. if you cant achieve it then dont bull**** to
> > yourself. that isnt the aircraft you should be building.
> > look for something more practical/more suited.
> >
> > dont embark on a projest that will see the first flight occurring
> > after your mum isnt here. stick with something simple and practical
> > for the real aircraft and build a second whizbang project.
> >
> > Stealth Pilot (no transponder)
> > Australia

[Big John]

Forrest

You need to go to the KR group site and ask your questions there. I
don't have the address to get there but you can look via google and/or
someone here will give to you.

When you start talking to people who are flying the different models
and the mods that have been made you will have a better feeling for
what you have and what you need.

I have a rip off copy or the early KR plans my friend gave me to help
him with some of his problems building but that was 20-30 or so years
ago and doubt if they are still available in my stacks of junk. Since
they are shop plans/drawings and not complete , I wouldn't give to
anyone.

I think they still sell plans and you may want to get a set so you
will know how bird is constructed and how to inspect and be able to
confirm that all the parts are built correctly and all put together
correctly. Remember its your life.

You didn't say how experienced you are. Don't think the bird is the
best for a low time pilot?

You need to trace your bird back and find out who built and get their
plans assuming they have a set of legal ones?

Have read that some had a problem with the retracting gear.
Originally was kind of mickey mouse.

Get an old time KR2 pilot as a Guru.

Don't let my negativism turn you off. Just do your home work and fly
safe.

Big John


On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 15:40:47 GMT, "Forrest" > wrote:

>Stealth Pilot
>
>Well, alrightie then. Weight and balance. And 'geared for day is ok'.
>It's funny that this isn't the first time I've been told that I'm trying to
>expand a humming bird project into a big fat duck. Good point.
>
>Actually, even though only the cabin wall frame is completed, I was in the
>process of building a 25% enlargement of the "Marvin Barnard M-19" (kind of
>a fiberglass version of a Cub) when the KR2 came up. But the thing is that
>I don't know enough about that machine's load capabilities either. Seems
>like some education is in order.
>
>The point is to get into the air. I do like the idea of a second airplane.
>Four passengers is what I'm really after.
>
>See what happens when you give a kid a piece of paper and say "make a list
>for Santa".
>
>Oop! Time to go to work.
>
>Thank you, Forrest
>
>"Stealth Pilot" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 20:09:52 GMT, "Forrest" > wrote:
>>
>> >The following is an email I sent to Jim Weir of KitPlanes Magazine.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Jim requested that I post my message to this newsgroup and and open these
>> >issues up for discussion. I'm the new guy to aviation.
>> >
>> >
>> Forrest
>> having read your wish list you need two aeroplanes (seriously!)
>> one in basic day vfr fitout that you can make the commutes over to see
>> your mum in (this is the real aeroplane)
>> the other a project that you can dream about, fit all the toys into
>> and satisfy your creative urges with. (this is the unfinished project
>> aeroplane)
>>
>> I'm familiar with the KR2. a friend is rebuilding his after pranging
>> it. they suit a small light pilot (5ft nothing, jockey build) and dont
>> have capacity for too much instrumentation without going overweight
>> and having dog like performance.
>> the engine will cause you problems. the continental will cause you
>> weight problems. target engine was an 1850cc or 2150cc VW aero
>> conversion. cruise is about 140 knots on these.
>> a jabiru 2200cc engine would be good.
>>
>> I fly a day vfr tailwind and I have commuted to mom's in it on a
>> number of occasions. my commute is 1500 nautical miles each way.
>> I havent needed anything more than the instruments I have and I
>> wouldnt want any less. the tailwind is fitted with:
>> airspeed indicator
>> slip indicator
>> sensitive altimeter
>> tacho
>> artificial horizon.
>> oil temp
>> oil pressure
>> vacuum gauge.
>> fuel gauge
>> garmin gps 2 plus.
>> wrist watch on my wrist.
>> magnetic compass.
>>
>> anything beyond that is really just dead weight.
>> I use everything that is there.
>> the A/H has got me out of the guano on three weather occasions,
>> however for most situations it is merely an angle of bank indicator. I
>> wouldnt be without it.
>>
>> my practical suggestion for your KR2 is as follows.
>> find out the design empty weight of the aircraft.
>> weigh the actual aircraft as it sits.
>> work out what you have to do to achieve the design empty weight in
>> your finished aircraft. if you cant achieve it then dont bull**** to
>> yourself. that isnt the aircraft you should be building.
>> look for something more practical/more suited.
>>
>> dont embark on a projest that will see the first flight occurring
>> after your mum isnt here. stick with something simple and practical
>> for the real aircraft and build a second whizbang project.
>>
>> Stealth Pilot (no transponder)
>> Australia
>

[James R. Freeman]

480 Lbs. is the design empty weight for the KR-2 but most come in about 540.
Go to http://www.fly-kr.com the official web site of R&R or
http://www.krnet.org the builders group.
"Forrest" > wrote in message
...
> The following is an email I sent to Jim Weir of KitPlanes Magazine.
>
>
>
> Jim requested that I post my message to this newsgroup and and open these
> issues up for discussion. I'm the new guy to aviation.
>
>
>
> Your Areo 'Lectrics column is like a much needed refresher course in
> electronics for me. And of all of the magazines that find their way into
my
> house the only column I always make it a point to read is yours. Thank
you.
>
> I have about 20 hours on my student log book and recently bought a KR2
> from my local chapter of EAA. It is in kind of rough shape an has only
> basic instrumentation - from left to right as follows; oil temp., VSI,
ASI,
> oil pressure, altitude, RPM, magnetic compass, turn coordinator. There is
> no electrical system and no lights anywhere. I'm sanding five coats of
> paint, primer, excess fiberglass, and unnecessary Bondo from the exterior.
> The 100hp Continental engine has about 25 hrs. on a complete rebuild. It
> seemed to be a good buy at two pecks of saved loose pocket change. By the
> way I'll be christening the craft "Two Pecks".
>
> Getting to the point, I've been reading and down loading from your
home
> pages on the web since flying is brand new to me. The idea is to be able
to
> afford the time to go see my Mom more regularly while she is still around.
> She lives 800 miles from me and the rest of my family doesn't live any
> closer. So, I want my plane to be able to make the trip with as many
safety
> features as possible (pilot included, of course). And I want the good
stuff
> at the "Weir Twofer $pecial." The thing is that you have such an
excellent
> variety of things one can do that I have gotten a bit overwhelmed. I
don't
> know what to do first or which variation to put my energy into.
>
> Here are a few of the things I have in mind for Two Pecks. LED nav.
> lights with appropriate flashers, one electronic ignition and one mag.,
> electric start, electronic fuel gauges, nav. radio (was that little 2 1\2"
> instrument hole plugger really a radio?! I couldn't find the article that
> said where to get one), transponder, CHT, EGT, OAT, carb air temp.,
> alternator voltage, GPS, LED dash lights, LED map light, a good two place
> head set jacks, the right size battery arrangement, a good circuit breaker
> set (I like that auto reset gizmo with the cut out switches), Oh! and that
> battery charger with temperature compensation looks pretty nifty too. Did
I
> forget anything?
>
> What comes to mind now is that I feel like I'm writing my wish list to
> Santa Clause. What would really be great is if you happen to have a book
> that spells these things out step by step with a direct purchase parts
> catalog or a mail order list. Granted, your parts list is pretty
thorough.
>
> I'm sure that you have a conceptual understanding of limited
> availability on time, yet here I am writing to you with a thesis on my
> latest disbursal. I guess I'll get all of this worked out in due time.
If
> you are so inclined as to respond with what to do or not do next, or maybe
> which projects to pick or leave, I would be ever grateful.
>
> Incidentally, will the Palm Pilot programs for GPS nav. aids etc. work
> on my "Visor" palm computer?
>
> I think I'll try to figure out how to do the navigation lights next
> since that will effect the body work and paint job.
>
>
>
> Thank you for your time,
>
> Forrest
>
>

[Peter Dohm]

Further advice to Forrest:

As of two years ago, they were still selling plans and the price was very
reasonable.

At that time, their address was:
Rand Robinson Engineering, Inc.
15641 Product Lane, Suite A5
Huntington Beach, CA 92649

Phone: (714) 898-3811

and their (then new) web address was: http://www.fly-kr.com/

Remember that the KR is a very small airplane and that Ken Rand was only
a little bigger than the Wright brothers. If I recall correctly, Ken
Rand was around 5'6" and 125 to 130 pounds. If you are much taller than
5'7", the rounded canopy and turtle deck will not give you adequate
headroom. In addition, shoulder width will be a problem if you are much
larger, or even if you are broad shouldered at 5'7" or so...

I am 6'1" and currently 200 pounds (which I regard as 20 pounds over
weight) and bought my set of plans mainly as a curiosity; and as one
more example of prior engineering with a known result. As I recall it,
Ken Rand's KR-2 originally flew with a 1600 cc VW engine, cruised at
roughly 115 knots, and only required that the cooling intakes be opened
slightly to operate reliably and maintain the desired temperatures.

I have tried a KR-2 on for size and it did not fit. At the minimum,
I would require a molded, rather than blown, canopy (with appropriate
changes to the turtle deck) and about 4 inches more cabin width.

In addition, I would need a useful load of at least 500 pounds, rather
than the stated 420 pounds. It would also need more wing area. Finally
more structure would increase the empty weight. When it is all added up,
the gross weight would probably increase about 150 pounds (to 1150
pounds), the wing area would need to increase to about 90 square feet,
and the engine would need to be a Rotax 912, a Jabiru 2200, or possibly
a Corvair. In short it would no longer be a KR-2; instead it would be
the PS-1 or Pete's Special, a "custom built".

(I really like the KR, but the Doc said he couldn't safely remove a
couple of vertebrae so that I could close the canopy)

A final note of caution. Forrest should be really careful about too
much sanding! Especially, be careful about sanding the leading edges
and skin attachment areas such as near the spar caps! Some years ago,
a 5/8 scale FW-190A self destructed on the way home from OSH. IIRC,
the builder had done a lot of surface work to achieve a near perfect
contour and grand champion finish; and a leading edge split while in
flight ... :-(

Peter

Big John wrote:
>
> Forrest
>
> You need to go to the KR group site and ask your questions there. I
> don't have the address to get there but you can look via google and/or
> someone here will give to you.
>
> When you start talking to people who are flying the different models
> and the mods that have been made you will have a better feeling for
> what you have and what you need.
>
> I have a rip off copy or the early KR plans my friend gave me to help
> him with some of his problems building but that was 20-30 or so years
> ago and doubt if they are still available in my stacks of junk. Since
> they are shop plans/drawings and not complete , I wouldn't give to
> anyone.
>
> I think they still sell plans and you may want to get a set so you
> will know how bird is constructed and how to inspect and be able to
> confirm that all the parts are built correctly and all put together
> correctly. Remember its your life.
>
> You didn't say how experienced you are. Don't think the bird is the
> best for a low time pilot?
>
> You need to trace your bird back and find out who built and get their
> plans assuming they have a set of legal ones?
>
> Have read that some had a problem with the retracting gear.
> Originally was kind of mickey mouse.
>
> Get an old time KR2 pilot as a Guru.
>
> Don't let my negativism turn you off. Just do your home work and fly
> safe.
>
> Big John
>
> On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 15:40:47 GMT, "Forrest" > wrote:
>
> >Stealth Pilot
> >
> >Well, alrightie then. Weight and balance. And 'geared for day is ok'.
> >It's funny that this isn't the first time I've been told that I'm trying to
> >expand a humming bird project into a big fat duck. Good point.
> >
> >Actually, even though only the cabin wall frame is completed, I was in the
> >process of building a 25% enlargement of the "Marvin Barnard M-19" (kind of
> >a fiberglass version of a Cub) when the KR2 came up. But the thing is that
> >I don't know enough about that machine's load capabilities either. Seems
> >like some education is in order.
> >
> >The point is to get into the air. I do like the idea of a second airplane.
> >Four passengers is what I'm really after.
> >
> >See what happens when you give a kid a piece of paper and say "make a list
> >for Santa".
> >
> >Oop! Time to go to work.
> >
> >Thank you, Forrest
> >
> >"Stealth Pilot" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 20:09:52 GMT, "Forrest" > wrote:
> >>
> >> >The following is an email I sent to Jim Weir of KitPlanes Magazine.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Jim requested that I post my message to this newsgroup and and open these
> >> >issues up for discussion. I'm the new guy to aviation.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> Forrest
> >> having read your wish list you need two aeroplanes (seriously!)
> >> one in basic day vfr fitout that you can make the commutes over to see
> >> your mum in (this is the real aeroplane)
> >> the other a project that you can dream about, fit all the toys into
> >> and satisfy your creative urges with. (this is the unfinished project
> >> aeroplane)
> >>
> >> I'm familiar with the KR2. a friend is rebuilding his after pranging
> >> it. they suit a small light pilot (5ft nothing, jockey build) and dont
> >> have capacity for too much instrumentation without going overweight
> >> and having dog like performance.
> >> the engine will cause you problems. the continental will cause you
> >> weight problems. target engine was an 1850cc or 2150cc VW aero
> >> conversion. cruise is about 140 knots on these.
> >> a jabiru 2200cc engine would be good.
> >>
> >> I fly a day vfr tailwind and I have commuted to mom's in it on a
> >> number of occasions. my commute is 1500 nautical miles each way.
> >> I havent needed anything more than the instruments I have and I
> >> wouldnt want any less. the tailwind is fitted with:
> >> airspeed indicator
> >> slip indicator
> >> sensitive altimeter
> >> tacho
> >> artificial horizon.
> >> oil temp
> >> oil pressure
> >> vacuum gauge.
> >> fuel gauge
> >> garmin gps 2 plus.
> >> wrist watch on my wrist.
> >> magnetic compass.
> >>
> >> anything beyond that is really just dead weight.
> >> I use everything that is there.
> >> the A/H has got me out of the guano on three weather occasions,
> >> however for most situations it is merely an angle of bank indicator. I
> >> wouldnt be without it.
> >>
> >> my practical suggestion for your KR2 is as follows.
> >> find out the design empty weight of the aircraft.
> >> weigh the actual aircraft as it sits.
> >> work out what you have to do to achieve the design empty weight in
> >> your finished aircraft. if you cant achieve it then dont bull**** to
> >> yourself. that isnt the aircraft you should be building.
> >> look for something more practical/more suited.
> >>
> >> dont embark on a projest that will see the first flight occurring
> >> after your mum isnt here. stick with something simple and practical
> >> for the real aircraft and build a second whizbang project.
> >>
> >> Stealth Pilot (no transponder)
> >> Australia
> >

[Stealth Pilot]

On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 19:55:25 -0500, "James R. Freeman"
> wrote:

>480 Lbs. is the design empty weight for the KR-2 but most come in about 540.
>Go to http://www.fly-kr.com the official web site of R&R or
>http://www.krnet.org the builders group.

typical problems we are aware of in australia
they come out over empty weight and quite often have an aft cg
problem.

the fuselage around the cockpit is structurally sound though. alan
decked his at 80knots after the canopy opened in flight (side hinged)
the aircraft was totalled but nothing penetrated the cockpit. he got
out shaken but unhurt and has almost completed the rebuild.

one other problem is the long AN3 bolts attaching the alloy casting
gear legs to the torsion beam. these are not strong enough. with
engineering assistance the local guy has used high strength NAS bolts
of about AN4 diameter. in failure the nuts on the AN3's just pull
straight off the bolts taking the threads with them.

Forrest
pay attention to empty weight. it is important.
what you find in overweight aircraft is that the airspeed of lowest
drag increases over what it could be.
this means that on approach to landing you have to keep the speed up
or the induced drag rises quickly and as it does the sink rate
increases.
a heavily loaded Wittman Tailwind for example will approach at 70
knots quite happily but will develop quite alarming sink rates below
60 knots unless you have power on. it stalls at 47 knots in landing
configuration.
in a gusting 20 knot crosswind it becomes a really attention grabbing
exercise to approach at 70 knots round out and wash off the excess
airspeed down to landing speed, while juggling the drift, without
whanging it on so hard that you bend something ...or end up in yet
another go around.
overweight takes all the fun out of flying I can tell you.
you can only correct the problem by not building it in.
Stealth Pilot
Australia

[Forrest]

"Stealth Pilot" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 19:55:25 -0500, "James R. Freeman"
> > wrote:
>
> >480 Lbs. is the design empty weight for the KR-2 but most come in about
540.
> >Go to http://www.fly-kr.com the official web site of R&R or
> >http://www.krnet.org the builders group.
>
> typical problems we are aware of in australia
> they come out over empty weight and quite often have an aft cg
> problem.
>
> the fuselage around the cockpit is structurally sound though. alan
> decked his at 80knots after the canopy opened in flight (side hinged)
> the aircraft was totalled but nothing penetrated the cockpit. he got
> out shaken but unhurt and has almost completed the rebuild.
>
> one other problem is the long AN3 bolts attaching the alloy casting
> gear legs to the torsion beam. these are not strong enough. with
> engineering assistance the local guy has used high strength NAS bolts
> of about AN4 diameter. in failure the nuts on the AN3's just pull
> straight off the bolts taking the threads with them.
>
> Forrest
> pay attention to empty weight. it is important.
> what you find in overweight aircraft is that the airspeed of lowest
> drag increases over what it could be.
> this means that on approach to landing you have to keep the speed up
> or the induced drag rises quickly and as it does the sink rate
> increases.
> a heavily loaded Wittman Tailwind for example will approach at 70
> knots quite happily but will develop quite alarming sink rates below
> 60 knots unless you have power on. it stalls at 47 knots in landing
> configuration.
> in a gusting 20 knot crosswind it becomes a really attention grabbing
> exercise to approach at 70 knots round out and wash off the excess
> airspeed down to landing speed, while juggling the drift, without
> whanging it on so hard that you bend something ...or end up in yet
> another go around.
> overweight takes all the fun out of flying I can tell you.
> you can only correct the problem by not building it in.
> Stealth Pilot
> Australia
>
>

Hello Stealth Pilot,

I think it's pretty cool to be hearing from Australia. I was in port at
Gerldton (sp.?) W. Australia for a week when I was in the Navy. Some nice
folks took me in for a couple of days and we took in some local sights
(~200k radius) cruising about in their ute. One day I hope to visit there
again.

I was told that my KR-2 has had the wings and tail extended. However, I
have not confirmed that yet. The logs are a lot sketchy and much of the
paperwork seems to be missing. The previous owner is reportedly dead.
Reportedly death not attributable to flight related incident.

Your post attached here is very informative. Big John warned I might be in
a little deep with this machine as a low time pilot. Maybe being a low
time -student- pilot will help matters a bit? :-0 The complications are no
big bother to me though. I like to have creative endeavors to occupy my
mind with. And my flight instructor was good enough to have mixed my
breakfast up a bit a couple of times to fasten the concept that getting
airborne was not to be taken lightly. Anyway, I'll post some dimensions
sometime in the next couple of days and keep plugging away at this project.
I'm currently in what I like to think of as the cost of my education. It
has become apparent to me that a new project will be in order once this one
is finished. I'm getting the idea that some of the bells and whistles might
have to wait until then. Maybe.

By the way, I'm not terribly happy with the way the landing gear was bolted,
though it must have been safe enough to put a bunch of hours on the plane.
And the canopy attachment (forward hinged) was becoming frayed. I'm trying
to figure out how to get it to slide forward instead. But ... well, we'll
see.

Thanks,
Forrest