Towing Schweizer Gliders with tost rings?

[[email protected]]

I am wondering if anyone has experience both physical and legal in
rigging Schweizer gliders to be towed with tost rings

I have thought about modifiying the moving part of the tow hitch
(making it narrower).

I have also thought about installing tost hitches on the glider.

We waste a lot of time switching the weak link end to end.

Bill Snead

[Andy[_1_]]

On Dec 19, 4:09*pm, " > wrote:
> I am wondering if anyone has experience both physical and legal in
> rigging Schweizer gliders to be towed with tost rings
>
> I have thought about modifiying the moving part of the tow hitch
> (making it narrower).
>
> I have also thought about installing tost hitches on the glider.
>
> We waste a lot of time switching the weak link end to end.
>
> Bill Snead

Some operators thread a tost link and a Schweizer ring on the same end
of the tow rope. I would think that would be a lot better than an
illegal /unapproved modification to the tow hook. I suppose there is
some small risk that the big Schweizer ring could foul something when
the tost rings were in use.

Andy

Andy (GY)

[vontresc]

On Dec 19, 5:33*pm, Andy > wrote:
> On Dec 19, 4:09*pm, " > wrote:
>
> > I am wondering if anyone has experience both physical and legal in
> > rigging Schweizer gliders to be towed with tost rings
>
> > I have thought about modifiying the moving part of the tow hitch
> > (making it narrower).
>
> > I have also thought about installing tost hitches on the glider.
>
> > We waste a lot of time switching the weak link end to end.
>
> > Bill Snead
>
> Some operators thread a tost link and a Schweizer ring on the same end
> of the tow rope. *I would think that would be a lot better than an
> illegal /unapproved modification to the tow hook. *I suppose there is
> some small risk that the big Schweizer ring could foul something when
> the tost rings were in use.
>
> Andy
>
> Andy (GY)

We use a bridle with Tost rings for the Tost equipped gliders in our
club. The bridle simply loops through the Schweizer ring at the end of
the rope. Really doesn't take much time to switch out the bridle
unless you can't find it :-)

The other solution i've seen is to have both styles of rings at the
end of the rope. Either solution is way better than using incorrect
rings.

Peter

[ray conlon]

On Dec 19, 7:15*pm, vontresc > wrote:
> On Dec 19, 5:33*pm, Andy > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 19, 4:09*pm, " > wrote:
>
> > > I am wondering if anyone has experience both physical and legal in
> > > rigging Schweizer gliders to be towed with tost rings
>
> > > I have thought about modifiying the moving part of the tow hitch
> > > (making it narrower).
>
> > > I have also thought about installing tost hitches on the glider.
>
> > > We waste a lot of time switching the weak link end to end.
>
> > > Bill Snead
>
> > Some operators thread a tost link and a Schweizer ring on the same end
> > of the tow rope. *I would think that would be a lot better than an
> > illegal /unapproved modification to the tow hook. *I suppose there is
> > some small risk that the big Schweizer ring could foul something when
> > the tost rings were in use.
>
> > Andy
>
> > Andy (GY)
>
> We use a bridle with Tost rings for the Tost equipped gliders in our
> club. The bridle simply loops through the Schweizer ring at the end of
> the rope. Really doesn't take much time to switch out the bridle
> unless you can't find it :-)
>
> The other solution i've seen is to have both styles of rings at the
> end of the rope. Either solution is way better than using incorrect
> rings.
>
> Peter- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

NO NEVER use the wrong ring with ANY hook, I understand that a TOST
ring has been known to "jam" a Schweizer hook and make it un-able to
release.....I know someone who experienced this foul up because of a
"new" lineboy who had not been properly taught the difference. Their
is a sevice bulliten out since last year about tolerences for
Schweizer hook wear limits, check the K&L website.

[Tom[_12_]]

"Some operators thread a tost link and a Schweizer ring on the same
end
of the tow rope. "

Two tow rings on the end of the tow rope makes it heavier, and will
fly lower behind the towplane making it more likely to hit objects on
the ground.

Tom Knauff

[Walt Connelly]

On Dec 19, 7:15*pm, vontresc wrote:
On Dec 19, 5:33*pm, Andy wrote:





On Dec 19, 4:09*pm, " wrote:

I am wondering if anyone has experience both physical and legal in
rigging Schweizer gliders to be towed with tost rings

I have thought about modifiying the moving part of the tow hitch
(making it narrower).

I have also thought about installing tost hitches on the glider.

We waste a lot of time switching the weak link end to end.

Bill Snead

Some operators thread a tost link and a Schweizer ring on the same end
of the tow rope. *I would think that would be a lot better than an
illegal /unapproved modification to the tow hook. *I suppose there is
some small risk that the big Schweizer ring could foul something when
the tost rings were in use.

Andy

Andy (GY)

We use a bridle with Tost rings for the Tost equipped gliders in our
club. The bridle simply loops through the Schweizer ring at the end of
the rope. Really doesn't take much time to switch out the bridle
unless you can't find it :-)

The other solution i've seen is to have both styles of rings at the
end of the rope. Either solution is way better than using incorrect
rings.

Peter- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

NO NEVER use the wrong ring with ANY hook, I understand that a TOST
ring has been known to "jam" a Schweizer hook and make it un-able to
release.....I know someone who experienced this foul up because of a
"new" lineboy who had not been properly taught the difference. Their
is a sevice bulliten out since last year about tolerences for
Schweizer hook wear limits, check the K&L website.

I can't begin to count the number of hookups I have done in the last year, both Tost and Schweizer rings. It only takes a few seconds to detach one weak link and attach another. I have run into a few guys hooking up who were relatively unaware of the need for different rings, amazing if you ask me. Operators need to insure that "volunteers" who are doing hookups are properly instructed on the procedure. I fly a 1-34 quite regularly and the only problem is finding the proper weak link when I am ready to go. I would never let someone try to hook up a Tost ring to a Schweizer hook.

[Andy[_1_]]

On Dec 20, 5:29*am, Tom > wrote:
> "Some operators thread a tost link and a Schweizer ring on the same
> end
> of the tow rope. "
>
> Two tow rings on the end of the tow rope makes it heavier, and will
> fly lower behind the towplane making it more likely to hit objects on
> the ground.
>
> Tom Knauff

How can a rope with 2 ring sets be heavier than a rope terminated by a
Schweizer ring with a tost weak link added to the end?

Surely the only way to avoid the weight of 2 ring sets is to change
the whole tow rope. In any case I doubt the difference in rope droop
is significant and suspect it is probably more influenced by the type
of ball used to protect the rings.

It is, however, certain that if a weak link is added to the end of the
rope then the new end will fly lower by some fraction of the weak link
length.

This is probably only of academic interest except to those tow pilots
that consistently clear obstacles by a few inches. Those pilots will
appreciate the rope being exactly the same for each approach and
landing.

Andy

[bildan]

On Dec 20, 5:29*am, Tom > wrote:
> "Some operators thread a tost link and a Schweizer ring on the same
> end
> of the tow rope. "
>
> Two tow rings on the end of the tow rope makes it heavier, and will
> fly lower behind the towplane making it more likely to hit objects on
> the ground.
>
> Tom Knauff

There are lots of really neat stuff in the Tost catalog - including a
tow rope retract winch. The late Fred Robinson installed them on his
Pawnees. The resulting increase in operational efficiency from
shorter landings and taxi-backs equaled a third tow plane, he said.

Tost also had a really neat connect/disconnect system which allows
quick change of rings and weak links. This also adds to efficiency in
that the "crawl under and hook-up" protocol can be done before the tug
arrives with the rope snapped onto the weak link/ringset leader in
seconds.

Finally, use only the correct ring/ringset. Any other combination is
a significant risk not worth trying for a bit of convenience.

[Alpha One]

Minor correction.

Two of Fred Robinson's Pawnees did have rope retract winches, but they
were not the Tost ones.

On 2010-12-20 07:26:17 -0800, bildan said:

> There are lots of really neat stuff in the Tost catalog - including a
> tow rope retract winch. The late Fred Robinson installed them on his
> Pawnees. The resulting increase in operational efficiency from
> shorter landings and taxi-backs equaled a third tow plane, he said.


--
To email, replace contestid with the real thing. (spelled out)

[bildan]

On Dec 20, 9:43*am, Alpha One > wrote:
> Minor correction.
>
> Two of Fred Robinson's Pawnees did have rope retract winches, but they
> were not the Tost ones.
>
> On 2010-12-20 07:26:17 -0800, bildan said:
>
> > There are lots of really neat stuff in the Tost catalog - including a
> > tow rope retract winch. *The late Fred Robinson installed them on his
> > Pawnees. *The resulting increase in operational efficiency from
> > shorter landings and taxi-backs equaled a third tow plane, he said.
>
> --
> To email, replace contestid with the real thing. (spelled out)

Whose retract winches were they?

[Tim Mara]

TOST Tow retractor systems are on my website catalog page
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page31.htm

Hundreds in use!
tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com

"bildan" > wrote in message
...
On Dec 20, 5:29 am, Tom > wrote:
> "Some operators thread a tost link and a Schweizer ring on the same
> end
> of the tow rope. "
>
> Two tow rings on the end of the tow rope makes it heavier, and will
> fly lower behind the towplane making it more likely to hit objects on
> the ground.
>
> Tom Knauff

There are lots of really neat stuff in the Tost catalog - including a
tow rope retract winch. The late Fred Robinson installed them on his
Pawnees. The resulting increase in operational efficiency from
shorter landings and taxi-backs equaled a third tow plane, he said.

Tost also had a really neat connect/disconnect system which allows
quick change of rings and weak links. This also adds to efficiency in
that the "crawl under and hook-up" protocol can be done before the tug
arrives with the rope snapped onto the weak link/ringset leader in
seconds.

Finally, use only the correct ring/ringset. Any other combination is
a significant risk not worth trying for a bit of convenience.

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[T[_2_]]

On Dec 19, 3:09*pm, " > wrote:
> I am wondering if anyone has experience both physical and legal in
> rigging Schweizer gliders to be towed with tost rings
>
> I have thought about modifiying the moving part of the tow hitch
> (making it narrower).
>
> I have also thought about installing tost hitches on the glider.
>
> We waste a lot of time switching the weak link end to end.
>
> Bill Snead

I would not do any filing to change the Schweizer hook. There is an AD
on the hook which specifies certain demensions. I do not think that
"width" was one of the demensions, I would have to check the AD.. but
the size and profiles of the "step" in the hook are specified. If the
hook does not meet the AD specifications, then the hook will not pass
the inspection and cannot be used.

We use a 7/16 3 ply ploy tow rope with eye splices, changing out the
weak link for the proper Schweizer or Tost ring takes seconds. Two eye
splices work wonders for quick change outs.

T

[[email protected]]

On Dec 20, 8:30*pm, T > wrote:
> On Dec 19, 3:09*pm, " > wrote:
>
> > I am wondering if anyone has experience both physical and legal in
> > rigging Schweizer gliders to be towed with tost rings
>
> > I have thought about modifiying the moving part of the tow hitch
> > (making it narrower).
>
> > I have also thought about installing tost hitches on the glider.
>
> > We waste a lot of time switching the weak link end to end.
>
> > Bill Snead
>
> I would not do any filing to change the Schweizer hook. There is an AD
> on the hook which specifies certain demensions. I do not think that
> "width" was one of the demensions, I would have to check the AD.. but
> the size and profiles of the "step" in the hook are specified. If the
> hook does not meet the AD specifications, then the hook will not pass
> the inspection and cannot be used.
>
> We use a 7/16 3 ply ploy tow rope with eye splices, changing out the
> weak link for the proper Schweizer or Tost ring takes seconds. Two eye
> splices work wonders for quick change outs.
>
> Thanks for for informative replies. Putting a Tost ring on a standard Schweizer would not be safe. It would probably jam on to the hitch. It does seem to me, however, that the moving part of the Schweizer hitch could be redesigned to safely accept a tost ring. I would suspect that getting the paper work approved by the FAA would require a major effort. Also, I would think that unless all Schweizers had the redesigned hooks it would cause confusion that might result in more small rings being hooked up to old Schweizer hitchs.

6W