Blade type VHF antenna?

[JFLEISC]

Can anyone tell me if there are any significant electronic performance
differences in those "shorter blade type" (just over a foot) VHF com antennas
from the standard length stainless whip?

Jim

[Jim Weir]

It depends ENTIRELY on how they are foreshortening the antenna. If they are
using super-wide conductors (the entire width of the blade) to get the
foreshortening, then it is a very efficient antenna. If they are using loading
coils inside with a relatively narrow antenna diameter, it is a very inefficient
antenna.

The only way to know for sure is to ask the manufacturer for a data/spec sheet
or cut the antenna open.

Jim


(JFLEISC)
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->Can anyone tell me if there are any significant electronic performance
->differences in those "shorter blade type" (just over a foot) VHF com antennas
->from the standard length stainless whip?
->
->Jim

Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[JFLEISC]

>It depends ENTIRELY on how they are foreshortening the antenna. If they are
>using super-wide conductors (the entire width of the blade) to get the
>foreshortening, then it is a very efficient antenna. If they are using
>loading
>coils inside with a relatively narrow antenna diameter, it is a very
>inefficient
>antenna.
>
>The only way to know for sure is to ask the manufacturer for a data/spec
>sheet
>or cut the antenna open.
>
>Jim
>

Will one of those SWR meters tell you anything?

[Jay]

No, it just tells you how good the impedance match is. A good match
is a necessary, but not sufficient condition, to a high efficiency
antenna installation. However, a power meter in the far field will
tell you how good your antenna is and give you a relative indication
of how adjustments are effecting your ability to reach out and touch
someone.

(JFLEISC) wrote in message
> Will one of those SWR meters tell you anything?

[Peter Dohm]

Jay wrote:
>
> No, it just tells you how good the impedance match is. A good match
> is a necessary, but not sufficient condition, to a high efficiency
> antenna installation. However, a power meter in the far field will
> tell you how good your antenna is and give you a relative indication
> of how adjustments are effecting your ability to reach out and touch
> someone.
>
> (JFLEISC) wrote in message
> > Will one of those SWR meters tell you anything?

Very true, and the efficiency may depend on the surface used as a
ground plane as much as anything else.

Peter

P.S.: It is also usefull to check more than one frequency!

[smithxpj]

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 11:01:29 -0800, Jim Weir > wrote:

>It depends ENTIRELY on how they are foreshortening the antenna. If they are
>using super-wide conductors (the entire width of the blade) to get the
>foreshortening, then it is a very efficient antenna. If they are using loading
>coils inside with a relatively narrow antenna diameter, it is a very inefficient
>antenna.
>
>The only way to know for sure is to ask the manufacturer for a data/spec sheet
>or cut the antenna open.

I tried that stunt back in the early 80's out of interest.

The couple of manufacturers that I asked were very coy about parting
with detailed information about what was inside their antennas. It was
very generic stuff like..."a printed circuit etched radiator with
double sided etched capacitors and inductors appropriately tapped to
the radiator to achieve optimum matching" !!!

I once managed to get access to an industrial X-ray machine and got a
picture of the innards of a Collins military VHF-UHF blade antenna.
Eye opening stuff, indeed...but trying to reproduce it? It would
hardly be worth the manhour effort compared with knocking up a 26"
piece of 1/8" brazing rod into a 1/4 wave radiator.

>
>Jim
>
>


>Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
>VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
>http://www.rst-engr.com

[Roger Halstead]

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:58:17 +1100, smithxpj >
wrote:

>On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 11:01:29 -0800, Jim Weir > wrote:
>
>>It depends ENTIRELY on how they are foreshortening the antenna. If they are
>>using super-wide conductors (the entire width of the blade) to get the
>>foreshortening, then it is a very efficient antenna. If they are using loading
>>coils inside with a relatively narrow antenna diameter, it is a very inefficient
>>antenna.
>>
>>The only way to know for sure is to ask the manufacturer for a data/spec sheet
>>or cut the antenna open.
>
>I tried that stunt back in the early 80's out of interest.
>
>The couple of manufacturers that I asked were very coy about parting
>with detailed information about what was inside their antennas. It was
>very generic stuff like..."a printed circuit etched radiator with
>double sided etched capacitors and inductors appropriately tapped to
>the radiator to achieve optimum matching" !!!
>
>I once managed to get access to an industrial X-ray machine and got a
>picture of the innards of a Collins military VHF-UHF blade antenna.
>Eye opening stuff, indeed...but trying to reproduce it? It would
>hardly be worth the manhour effort compared with knocking up a 26"
>piece of 1/8" brazing rod into a 1/4 wave radiator.

If it's a blade type, why not put in a flat piece of brass or copper
stock and trim for resonance, or use a matching network?
I'd think something that large (length to width) wouldn't take much
loading. OTOH I guess linear loading could be used. Double sided
circuit board with the back a thin ground....maybe widening out to
provide more capacitance near the end... It'd take some
experimenting, but I'd think it'd work.

I know...Lots of weasel words, but I haven't actually tried it so it's
more thinking out loud.

>
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair?)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Return address modified due to dumb virus checkers
>>
>>Jim
>>
>>
>
>
>>Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
>>VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
>>http://www.rst-engr.com