status of Delta Hawk diesel

[jan olieslagers[_2_]]

The Delta Hawk has been VERY slow to come to the market, yet I have a
vague memory of the first samples being very close to release.
Anyone know the details, or of any flying apart from factory test/demo
planes?
TIA,

[stol]

On Jan 3, 9:19*am, jan olieslagers >
wrote:
> The Delta Hawk has been VERY slow to come to the market, yet I have a
> vague memory of the first samples being very close to release.
> Anyone know the details, or of any flying apart from factory test/demo
> planes?
> TIA,

I have NEVER seen a Delta Hawk in any other plane but the factory Demo
canard. This motor program is as close to vaporware as on can get.

Just my opinion........

[jan olieslagers[_2_]]

Op 04/01/2011 15:27, stol schreef:
> On Jan 3, 9:19 am, jan >
> wrote:
>> The Delta Hawk has been VERY slow to come to the market, yet I have a
>> vague memory of the first samples being very close to release.
>> Anyone know the details, or of any flying apart from factory test/demo
>> planes?
>> TIA,
>
> I have NEVER seen a Delta Hawk in any other plane but the factory Demo
> canard. This motor program is as close to vaporware as on can get.
>
> Just my opinion........

Thanks for sharing your opinion - obviously my info was incorrect. As
for "vaporware", I always believed this discipline's grandmaster is
Germany's Zoche diesel engine?

Rgds,

[Orval Fairbairn[_2_]]

In article >,
jan olieslagers > wrote:

> Op 04/01/2011 15:27, stol schreef:
> > On Jan 3, 9:19 am, jan >
> > wrote:
> >> The Delta Hawk has been VERY slow to come to the market, yet I have a
> >> vague memory of the first samples being very close to release.
> >> Anyone know the details, or of any flying apart from factory test/demo
> >> planes?
> >> TIA,
> >
> > I have NEVER seen a Delta Hawk in any other plane but the factory Demo
> > canard. This motor program is as close to vaporware as on can get.
> >
> > Just my opinion........
>
> Thanks for sharing your opinion - obviously my info was incorrect. As
> for "vaporware", I always believed this discipline's grandmaster is
> Germany's Zoche diesel engine?
>
> Rgds,

Zoche would have my vote, too! He has NEVER had one of his engines flown
in the 30 years that I have been aware of it.

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is! (Like Zoche's engine)

[BobR]

On Jan 4, 9:27*am, stol > wrote:
> On Jan 3, 9:19*am, jan olieslagers >
> wrote:
>
> > The Delta Hawk has been VERY slow to come to the market, yet I have a
> > vague memory of the first samples being very close to release.
> > Anyone know the details, or of any flying apart from factory test/demo
> > planes?
> > TIA,
>
> I have NEVER seen a Delta Hawk in any other plane but the factory Demo
> canard. This motor program is as close to vaporware as on can get.
>
> Just my opinion........

I don't know about the vaporware aspect but I did notice where they
upped the price to the point that it would make no sense to even
consider one over any other engine. Their initial concept and price
level looked attractive but the last time I looked, I laughed and
never went back.

[[email protected]]

On Jan 4, 9:24 am, jan olieslagers >
wrote:

> Thanks for sharing your opinion - obviously my info was incorrect. As
> for "vaporware", I always believed this discipline's grandmaster is
> Germany's Zoche diesel engine?


Moller's the grandaddy of them all. Even takes deposits on vaporware.

Dan

[[email protected]]

Lots of hype on Diesels in airplanes, little action.

I wonder if the problem is the sharpness of the combustion event
destroying props?

Bill Hale BPPP instructor


On Jan 3, 9:19*am, jan olieslagers >
wrote:
> The Delta Hawk has been VERY slow to come to the market, yet I have a
> vague memory of the first samples being very close to release.
> Anyone know the details, or of any flying apart from factory test/demo
> planes?
> TIA,

[Morgans[_2_]]

" > wrote in message
...
> Lots of hype on Diesels in airplanes, little action.
>
> I wonder if the problem is the sharpness of the combustion event
> destroying props?

Not at all.

The problem is that diesels are usually heavy as crap to withstand the
higher combustion chamber pressures that diesel engines have, mainly. The
other problem is that fuel pumps and injector systems used on diesel engines
usually will not work using jet fuel, which is the fuel these engines are
normally going to be using.

Of course, the largest problem is having the money it takes to develop an
engine and get it to market. Costs can be enormous.
--
Jim in NC

[Tom De Moor]

In article >,
says...
>
> Not at all.
>
> The problem is that diesels are usually heavy as crap to withstand the
> higher combustion chamber pressures that diesel engines have, mainly.

Aero-diesels impose from the start a kind of supercharger, adding
complexity, weight and more things to go wrong.

Some makes add also a PSRU, once again adding weight, extra maintenance
and cost.

> The
> other problem is that fuel pumps and injector systems used on diesel engines
> usually will not work using jet fuel, which is the fuel these engines are
> normally going to be using.

Diesel engines require minimal mods to run on Jet grade A1. The Thielert
Aero-Diesel Engine is nothing else than a Mercedes A-class motor. This
is also the reason why Thielert states TBR (to be replaced) instead of
TBO: due to the engine core being mass produced it is not economical to
overhaul.

Thielert is one of the few on the market We are - 6 years after the
promised launch- still waiting for the Delta Hawk, the WAMdiesel and
others. Thielert even found the time to go bust and recommence. :-)

>
> Of course, the largest problem is having the money it takes to develop an
> engine and get it to market. Costs can be enormous.
>

When the lady goes shopping, costs can be enormous too.
Doesn't stop her either AND she enjoys the shopping. ;-)

Bottomline is that diesel or jet grade A1 is not yett an alternatif for
100LL, not even in Europe where 100LL is at 11.15 US$ / USG.

150 HP Diesel Thielert replacing a 150HP Lycoming in a C172 or PA28.
Engine 2000 Hr TBR: 39 kUS$ First installation aerodiesel: 20 kUS$
Fuel consumption: 7 USG/ Hr

150 HP Lyc Overhaul installation included : 15 kUS$
Fuel consumption : 9 USG/Hr

In Europe it is far more interesting to get an STC for mogas (which is
about 30% less expensif than 100LL).


Tom De Moor

[Jim Logajan]

jan olieslagers > wrote:
> The Delta Hawk has been VERY slow to come to the market, yet I have a
> vague memory of the first samples being very close to release.
> Anyone know the details, or of any flying apart from factory test/demo
> planes?
> TIA,
>

If you want an engine that runs on diesel, you HAVE to take a look at this
video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yle0bNfmf0E

It's a turbine engine mounted on a CH-701. Kinda neat!

I suppose if ~90 HP isn't enough, you could always consider a twin design.
;-)

[CaveLamb]

Jim Logajan wrote:
> jan olieslagers > wrote:
>> The Delta Hawk has been VERY slow to come to the market, yet I have a
>> vague memory of the first samples being very close to release.
>> Anyone know the details, or of any flying apart from factory test/demo
>> planes?
>> TIA,
>>
>
> If you want an engine that runs on diesel, you HAVE to take a look at this
> video:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yle0bNfmf0E
>
> It's a turbine engine mounted on a CH-701. Kinda neat!
>
> I suppose if ~90 HP isn't enough, you could always consider a twin design.
> ;-)


It said that 90 HP was turning a 68" prop!

--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

[bod43]

On Jan 18, 12:30*am, CaveLamb > wrote:
> Jim Logajan wrote:
> > jan olieslagers > wrote:
> >> The Delta Hawk has been VERY slow to come to the market, yet I have a
> >> vague memory of the first samples being very close to release.
> >> Anyone know the details, or of any flying apart from factory test/demo
> >> planes?
> >> TIA,
>
> > If you want an engine that runs on diesel, you HAVE to take a look at this
> > video:
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yle0bNfmf0E
>
> > It's a turbine engine mounted on a CH-701. Kinda neat!
>
> > I suppose if ~90 HP isn't enough, you could always consider a twin design.
> > ;-)
>
> It said that 90 HP was turning a 68" prop!

Youtube text description says 12gph fuel use!!!

[bod43]

On Jan 17, 9:19*pm, Tom De Moor >
wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
> Aero-diesels impose from the start a kind of supercharger, adding
> complexity, weight and more things to go wrong.

Hmm, well a 2-stroke like the delta-hawk does.

On the other hand on the Deltahawk there are no -
magnetos, spark plugs, leads
valves, camshafts, followers, pushrods, rockers
cylinder head gaskets (head integral with cylinder)

Engine has *no* need for an electrical supply to run.

I have followed the development for a while and very much like
the concepts behind the deltahawk.

> Some makes add also a PSRU, once again adding weight, extra maintenance
> and cost.

Engine speed is such that no PSRU is required.


> > The
> > other problem is that fuel pumps and injector systems used on diesel engines
> > usually will not work using jet fuel, which is the fuel these engines are
> > normally going to be using.

Deltahawk designed from outset for Jet fuel.


> > Of course, the largest problem is having the money it takes to develop an
> > engine and get it to market. *Costs can be enormous.

DH are still there. They claim that "Experimental" engines
are available now with certification Real Soon:)

As I said, I like the options they have chosen for their
clean sheet design. There seems every prospect that they
will be safe, robust and economical if the fuel tax in any
particular jurisdiction does not rule that out.

[Morgans[_2_]]

>> It said that 90 HP was turning a 68" prop!
>
> Youtube text description says 12gph fuel use!!!

A 3 bladed 68 inch prop, burning that much fuel even at turbine inefficiency
sounds like a buttload more than 90 HP, to me!
--
Jim in NC

[CaveLamb]

Morgans wrote:
>
>>> It said that 90 HP was turning a 68" prop!
>>
>> Youtube text description says 12gph fuel use!!!
>
> A 3 bladed 68 inch prop, burning that much fuel even at turbine
> inefficiency sounds like a buttload more than 90 HP, to me!


Yup.

I suspect that's 90 HP at the shaft - BEFORE the gearbox.

BTW, there is quite a bit of information about this setup on the web.
Velly intelesting...

--

Richard Lamb
email me:
web site: www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb

[[email protected]]

On Monday, 3 January 2011 16:19:53 UTC, jan olieslagers wrote:
> The Delta Hawk has been VERY slow to come to the market, yet I have a
> vague memory of the first samples being very close to release.
> Anyone know the details, or of any flying apart from factory test/demo
> planes?
> TIA,

I have been watching them over here avgas europe 2.5 euros a litre Jet A1 1 euro wish continentals ran on diesel with magneto's :) forget the efficiency of diesel its just cheaper by a country mile,dont worry by the time Deltahawk come out with a for sale product I will have developed a nuclear fusion reactor turbine drive that runs on water and weighs 50 kilos :)