DSX Safly (Safe Fly) Tracker

[Gliderpilot 1A]

Hi,
i just had a very nice conversation with DSX the builder of the DSX
Safly Tracker.
In my view this system is the best tracker, safety device available
for (glider) pilots.
In Europe we have thes ELTs but who knows if the ELT survives the
crash and can report the position to the Search and Rescue. With a
complete and high frequently track it will be much easier. The spot is
also very nice but tracking all 10 minutes generates a big area to
search. I wanted to buy a spot these days because of safety but i like
the DSX Safly much more and think of buying one.
Also the price seems to be very attractive.

I found a good presentation on their web. Sadly the website is not
very clearly arranged.

http://www.d-s-x.net/index.php?option=com_phocadownload&view=category&id=1%3Abrochures&download=31%3Adsxtracking&Itemid=19&lang=en

I am not an owner or have any relationship to DSX, only wanted to
inform you.

KT

[John Cochrane[_2_]]

>
> I found a good presentation on their web. Sadly the website is not
> very clearly arranged.
>
> http://www.d-s-x.net/index.php?option=com_phocadownload&view=category...
>
> I am not an owner or have any relationship to DSX, only wanted to
> inform you.
>
> KT

What's going on with the DSX T-Advisor? It appeared as a competitor to
Flarm with some potential advantages. The website is pretty slow and
pretty scant. Is it in operation? Working with the latest flarm
software updates? Available/will work with the US powerflarm?

John Cochrane

[Peter Scholz[_3_]]

Am 21.01.2011 17:36, John Cochrane wrote:
>>
>> I found a good presentation on their web. Sadly the website is not
>> very clearly arranged.
>>
>> http://www.d-s-x.net/index.php?option=com_phocadownload&view=category...
>>
>> I am not an owner or have any relationship to DSX, only wanted to
>> inform you.
>>
>> KT
>
> What's going on with the DSX T-Advisor? It appeared as a competitor to
> Flarm with some potential advantages. The website is pretty slow and
> pretty scant. Is it in operation? Working with the latest flarm
> software updates? Available/will work with the US powerflarm?
>
> John Cochrane

John,

from a recent discussion on the segelflug.de forum it seems that the
manufacturers of DSX T-Advisor did not license the FLARM components or
firmware, as other competitors (e.g. LX) did. It seems that they rather
did a reverse engineering of the FLARM protocol.

If that is true, you will get no guarantee that the DSX T-Advisor will
communicate correctly with FLARM or FLARM-compatible devices.
--
Peter Scholz
ASW24 JE

[Darryl Ramm]

On Jan 24, 5:23*am, Peter Scholz > wrote:
> Am 21.01.2011 17:36, John Cochrane wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >> I found a good presentation on their web. Sadly the website is not
> >> very clearly arranged.
>
> >>http://www.d-s-x.net/index.php?option=com_phocadownload&view=category...
>
> >> I am not an owner or have any relationship to DSX, only wanted to
> >> inform you.
>
> >> KT
>
> > What's going on with the DSX T-Advisor? It appeared as a competitor to
> > Flarm with some potential advantages. The website is pretty slow and
> > pretty scant. Is it in operation? Working with the latest flarm
> > software updates? Available/will work with the US powerflarm?
>
> > John Cochrane
>
> John,
>
> from a recent discussion on the segelflug.de forum it seems that the
> manufacturers of DSX T-Advisor did not license the FLARM components or
> firmware, as other competitors (e.g. LX) did. It seems that they rather
> did a reverse engineering of the FLARM protocol.
>
> If that is true, you will get no guarantee that the DSX T-Advisor will
> communicate correctly with FLARM or FLARM-compatible devices.
> --
> Peter Scholz
> ASW24 JE

And that just seems a monumentally stupid decision. The last thing we
need are devices that receive and transmit kinda hopefully kinda like
a Flarm but maybe not quite. It may not be just what they see as Flarm
equipped threats but also how well their own position is received by
other Flarm equipped aircraft. Flarm seems to have been pretty
successful in developing an OEM market and supporting those OEMs so it
pretty much boggles my mind as to why somebody would try to copy/clone
the Flarm protocols vs. license the technology from Flarm.

BTW there is PDF documentation on the T-Advisor product at
www.soaringwear.com/uploadz/02/PDF/T-Advisor_07_12_19.pdf (that may be
out of date but the DSX web site (http://www.d-s-x.com) is usually so
slow its unusable.)

The GSM/GPRS based tracking datalink would be on no interest to me in
the USA (think AT&T GSM phone coverage issues at altitude...). I
believe the optional sat tracking datalink uses Globalstar so
hopefully cheaper than Iridium based systems. If their web site was
not so slow I'd look for the actual pricing. I have no idea if any of
DSX's products are for sale in the USA, I kind of doubt it since they
would need FCC approval and we've had heard of it.


Darryl

[Peter Scholz[_3_]]

Am 24.01.2011 22:12, Darryl Ramm wrote:
>
> And that just seems a monumentally stupid decision. The last thing we
> need are devices that receive and transmit kinda hopefully kinda like
> a Flarm but maybe not quite. It may not be just what they see as Flarm
> equipped threats but also how well their own position is received by
> other Flarm equipped aircraft. Flarm seems to have been pretty
> successful in developing an OEM market and supporting those OEMs so it
> pretty much boggles my mind as to why somebody would try to copy/clone
> the Flarm protocols vs. license the technology from Flarm.
> ...

Agreed. Anyway, the company seems be be not too successful, to put it
friendly. At least I know of no one that hat installed one of their
devices, at least not in Germany, Austria, Switzerland and France. May
be they have a local market in Italy.

--
Peter Scholz
ASW24 JE

[Darryl Ramm]

On Jan 25, 1:58*pm, "Tim Mara" > wrote:
> when has a monopoly ever been good???
> for anything??
> sounds too much to me like there must be some personal interest or
> involvement to ever wish this to be so
> tim

We can have abstract debates about this until the cows come home. All
our lives are surrounded by monopolies, etc. companies inventing
technology and exploiting that. A lot depends on what any definition
of monopoly is, I'm typing this reply on a "closed"/"monopoly like"
device - iPhone running iOS, your cell phone may use CDMA, another
"monopoly" technology. Wether thse technologies do well or not that is
up to the vendor and competition. But the real question here is not
abstract - what is the problem that Flarm has that requires an attack
on them to improve things? Its one thing to have comptition, quite
another for industry governing bodies to do things that could damage
an established vendor who has developed a well working technology and
OEM ecosystem like Flarm has - and that's especially why I bristled at
any notion of IGC involvement.

No I don't have a vested interest - except I want to see FLARM
technology available and used in the USA to help prevent glider pilots
dying in mid-air collisions. We've lost too many pilots, and had too
many close calls to not do this. But since you raised the issue, it is
hard to not notice that Wings and Wheels is not a PowerFLARM dealer -
I hope that does not bias your opinion against FLARM technology or
products. Is there a reason Wings and Wheels is not selling PowerFLARM
products you want to let us into?

Darryl

[Tim Mara]

OK, since you asked..I and several others were approached on selling the
powerflarm and there was a big push to get everyone on board, The language
was "take advantage of this big profit opportunity and "we'll" get this
pushed through." we have the right people on our side and we'll get this out
there so everyone will "have to have" this .....too many hands in the fire
and into the pockets, to be very honest it just didn't feel good. The big
push to get deposits and orders even before there is any sense of an
approval for it's use and the dangling of small discounts "by now and save"
is for lack of a better term, a lot like a late night infomercial selling
wonder products"..I have nothing against the technology and making this
available if someone wants it, but when the words like "mandatory" and "must
have" start popping into every sentence I don't get all warm and gushy
feelings... if it is the one thing that everyone "must have" then there are
already enough sellers.they don't need to have me there too...and like
everything else, once there is real competition for any product the
technology will improve and better and lower cost options will
appear....trying to monopolize any technology and/or use any form of
political regulation has never been good for the companies or their
followers.
so I too have no vested interest in this or for that matter in anyone who
might be a competitor to the device or it's future implementation
Tim

No I don't have a vested interest - except I want to see FLARM
technology available and used in the USA to help prevent glider pilots
dying in mid-air collisions. We've lost too many pilots, and had too
many close calls to not do this. But since you raised the issue, it is
hard to not notice that Wings and Wheels is not a PowerFLARM dealer -
I hope that does not bias your opinion against FLARM technology or
products. Is there a reason Wings and Wheels is not selling PowerFLARM
products you want to let us into?

Darryl

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[Darryl Ramm]

On Jan 26, 10:05*am, "Tim Mara" > wrote:
>[snip] The big
> push to get deposits and orders even before there is any sense of an
> approval for it's use and the dangling of small discounts "by now and save"
> is for lack of a better term, a lot like a late night infomercial selling
> wonder products"..[snip]
> Tim

Deposits? I don't believe USA PowerFLARM dealers are requiring
deposits. I have a PowerFLARM brick on order and my dealer (Williams
Soaring) made absolutely clear that they were not requiring/accepting
deposits. I don't believe other dealers are requiring deposits and I
would be dissapointed if they are.

I think that FLARM, Butterfly and their USA distributors and dealers
are handling this in a very sensible way. Offering a reasonable
discount to early adopters to encourage adoption and encouraging
pooling of purchases to encourage adoption in specific areas since
percentage adoption in any area is important to the effectiveness of
the technology. And the 300+ (I've lost track of the latest stated
number of orders) orders so far in the USA seem to say that quite a
few glider pilots agree. Given the product capabilities, R&D,
certification and other costs involved in this these units already
seem reasonably priced. Yes we'll all like a mythical $500 collision
avoidance product that works well but there is just no way I ever see
that happening.

Darryl

[apologies if this reposts twice Google Groups seems to have a hiccup
this morning)]

[Tim Mara]

"Darryl Ramm" > wrote in message
news:57983522-d272-4c83-aa46-
Deposits? I don't believe USA PowerFLARM dealers are requiring
deposits. I have a PowerFLARM brick on order and my dealer (Williams
Soaring) made absolutely clear that they were not requiring/accepting
deposits. I don't believe other dealers are requiring deposits and I
would be dissapointed if they are.

I understood some dealers do and some don't but that's up to the
dealer...but if in fact no one is taking deposits then the 300 units already
claimed sold is still then just vaporware and using the "already 300 units
sold" to get others to jump onto the band wagon is pretty false advertising
then too.....so if someone who has and then jumps off a cliff then the rest
will also follow?
tim

I think that FLARM, Butterfly and their USA distributors and dealers
are handling this in a very sensible way. Offering a reasonable
discount to early adopters to encourage adoption and encouraging
pooling of purchases to encourage adoption in specific areas since
percentage adoption in any area is important to the effectiveness of
the technology. And the 300+ (I've lost track of the latest stated
number of orders) orders so far in the USA seem to say that quite a
few glider pilots agree. Given the product capabilities, R&D,
certification and other costs involved in this these units already
seem reasonably priced. Yes we'll all like a mythical $500 collision
avoidance product that works well but there is just no way I ever see
that happening.

Darryl

[apologies if this reposts twice Google Groups seems to have a hiccup
this morning)]

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database 5822 (20110126) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com





__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5822 (20110126) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

[Darryl Ramm]

On Jan 26, 2:04*pm, "Tim Mara" > wrote:
> "Darryl Ramm" > wrote in message
>
> news:57983522-d272-4c83-aa46-
> Deposits? I don't believe USA PowerFLARM dealers are requiring
> deposits. I have a PowerFLARM brick on order and my dealer (Williams
> Soaring) made absolutely clear that they were not requiring/accepting
> deposits. I don't believe other dealers are requiring deposits and I
> would be dissapointed if they are.
>
> I understood some dealers do and some don't but that's up to the
> dealer...but if in fact no one is taking deposits then the 300 units already
> claimed sold is still then just vaporware and using the "already 300 units
> sold" to get others to jump onto the band wagon is pretty false advertising
> then too.....so if someone who has and then jumps off a cliff then the rest
> will also follow?
> tim

I said "orders" not "sold" and I believe others have been careful with
this as well. Yes all this is clearly just vaporware, its not like
FLARM (or Butterfly) has any credibility in delivering soaring
collision avoidance products. You want to sit this one out that's
entirely your call, we can both check back in a year and see how its
going in the USA.


Darryl

[Richard[_9_]]

On Jan 26, 2:24*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On Jan 26, 2:04*pm, "Tim Mara" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Darryl Ramm" > wrote in message
>
> > news:57983522-d272-4c83-aa46-
> > Deposits? I don't believe USA PowerFLARM dealers are requiring
> > deposits. I have a PowerFLARM brick on order and my dealer (Williams
> > Soaring) made absolutely clear that they were not requiring/accepting
> > deposits. I don't believe other dealers are requiring deposits and I
> > would be dissapointed if they are.
>
> > I understood some dealers do and some don't but that's up to the
> > dealer...but if in fact no one is taking deposits then the 300 units already
> > claimed sold is still then just vaporware and using the "already 300 units
> > sold" to get others to jump onto the band wagon is pretty false advertising
> > then too.....so if someone who has and then jumps off a cliff then the rest
> > will also follow?
> > tim
>
> I said "orders" not "sold" and I believe others have been careful with
> this as well. Yes all this is clearly just vaporware, its not like
> FLARM (or Butterfly) has any credibility in delivering soaring
> collision avoidance products. You want to sit this one out that's
> entirely your call, we can both check back in a year and see how its
> going in the USA.
>
> Darryl- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I believe the number of orders is now over 600.

I have not taken deposits,

Richard
www.craggyaero.com