Aeromarine Epoxies

[Nicholas Cafarelli]

Has anyone on the list used Aeromarine brand epoxies?

They are available at http://www.jgreer.com

I seek feedback from users.

Fly right.

[Bob Kuykendall]

Earlier, (Nicholas Cafarelli) wrote:

> Has anyone on the list used Aeromarine brand epoxies?
>
> They are available at http://www.jgreer.com
>
> I seek feedback from users.

Off topic, since I haven't used that brand:

When it comes to low-cost general-purpose epoxies, I prefer the 635
system from US Composites (http://www.uscomposites.com) with 3:1
medium hardener.

In the 2.66-gallon kit, it costs about $30 per gallon (about the same
as polyester resin at the hardware store), has a nice 3-hour working
time for thick layups, and I've had good consistent cure from it.

However, I cannot attest to the strength or other properties of these
materials. I've been using it only for tooling parts, so I don't
consider it of great importance at this time. I'd want to do a coupon
tests before I used it for any sort of flight or structural article.

Thanks, and best regards to all

Bob K.
http://www.hpaircraft.com

[ET]

(Bob Kuykendall) wrote in
om:

> Earlier, (Nicholas Cafarelli) wrote:
>
>> Has anyone on the list used Aeromarine brand epoxies?
>>
>> They are available at http://www.jgreer.com
>>
>> I seek feedback from users.
>
> Off topic, since I haven't used that brand:
>
> When it comes to low-cost general-purpose epoxies, I prefer the 635
> system from US Composites (http://www.uscomposites.com) with 3:1
> medium hardener.
>
> In the 2.66-gallon kit, it costs about $30 per gallon (about the same
> as polyester resin at the hardware store), has a nice 3-hour working
> time for thick layups, and I've had good consistent cure from it.
>
> However, I cannot attest to the strength or other properties of these
> materials. I've been using it only for tooling parts, so I don't
> consider it of great importance at this time. I'd want to do a coupon
> tests before I used it for any sort of flight or structural article.
>
> Thanks, and best regards to all
>
> Bob K.
> http://www.hpaircraft.com
>

I have not started building my plane yet... haven't even settled on a
WHICH plane... but I have used US Composits epoxy to build a canoe from
scratch and can attest to it's properties. It appears to me to have
every bit of the strength of West systems epoxy for about half the
price. The only downside is the shop really needs to be at least 80 -90
degrees for it to cure in a reasonable time. I live in south Texas, so
that's really not a big issue for me. I have no idea about heat curing
etc as I've read needs to be done for aircraft layups, but the guy in
florida who markets this stuff seem very knowledgable on the phone.
Their URL is http://www.uscomposites.com/.

I would be curious to know what is special about "airplane" epoxy vs
West system or East system etc... or is that another on of those things
that they make for airplanes and triple the price??


--
ET >:)


"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams

[Del Rawlins]

On 09 Dec 2003 04:58 AM, ET posted the following:
> (Bob Kuykendall) wrote in
> om:

>> When it comes to low-cost general-purpose epoxies, I prefer the 635
>> system from US Composites (http://www.uscomposites.com) with 3:1
>> medium hardener.
>
> I have not started building my plane yet... haven't even settled on a
> WHICH plane... but I have used US Composits epoxy to build a canoe
> from scratch and can attest to it's properties. It appears to me to
> have every bit of the strength of West systems epoxy for about half
> the price. The only downside is the shop really needs to be at least
> 80 -90 degrees for it to cure in a reasonable time.

A few years ago I built a sailboat and a canoe using Raka epoxy, and I
was pleased with it. One thing I liked was the ability to mix the fast
and slow hardeners to get exactly the cure speed I wanted, which helped
a lot in getting the stuff to cur ein Alaska.

http://www.raka.com/

----------------------------------------------------
Del Rawlins-
Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

[Nicholas Cafarelli]

Thanks Bob. Useful info. I look forward to reading about any future
coupon testing you end up doing on your informative website.

I have inquired about samples from http://www.jgreer.com and intend to
do testing. It sounds like testing of US Composites 635 resin system
would make a useful comparison.

[Paul Lee]

One main factor is temperature tolerance.
For example AeroPoxy has nearly 200F tolerance
before it gets soft. For a boat, high temperature is not
critical. But for a plane, the built up heat inside
can result in structural weakness.

----------------------------------------------------
Paul Lee, SQ2000 canard project: www.abri.com/sq2000

ET > wrote in message >...
> .....
> I would be curious to know what is special about "airplane" epoxy vs
> West system or East system etc... or is that another on of those things
> that they make for airplanes and triple the price??

[Ryan Young]

(Nicholas Cafarelli) wrote in message >...
> Has anyone on the list used Aeromarine brand epoxies?
>
> They are available at http://www.jgreer.com
>
> I seek feedback from users.

Not a user, but I will say that it sort of bothers me that most of the
discount epoxy suppliers don't provide any mechanical properties on
their web sites. Tensile strength, toughness, Young's Modulus, and
glass transition temperature are the minimum I would like to see.

As an example, WEST system is great for it's intended purpose (coating
wood), but it cures to a fairly low stiffness, even though it's
tensile strength looks OK. The same part built with WEST will deflect
at a given load a LOT more than a part with the same glass content
molded with AeroPoxy, or even dime store polyester!

Notice that the Gougeon Brothers have a different system they
advertise for composites...if you are building a composite airplane,
don't use WEST for structural layups, or anything that advertises as
"As Good As WEST".

You pays your money, you takes your chances, but without the
mechanicals, you take MORE chances. More than I care to make.

[ET]

(Ryan Young) wrote in
om:

> (Nicholas Cafarelli) wrote in message
> >...
>> Has anyone on the list used Aeromarine brand epoxies?
>>
>> They are available at http://www.jgreer.com
>>
>> I seek feedback from users.
>
> Not a user, but I will say that it sort of bothers me that most of the
> discount epoxy suppliers don't provide any mechanical properties on
> their web sites. Tensile strength, toughness, Young's Modulus, and
> glass transition temperature are the minimum I would like to see.
>
> As an example, WEST system is great for it's intended purpose (coating
> wood), but it cures to a fairly low stiffness, even though it's
> tensile strength looks OK. The same part built with WEST will deflect
> at a given load a LOT more than a part with the same glass content
> molded with AeroPoxy, or even dime store polyester!
>
> Notice that the Gougeon Brothers have a different system they
> advertise for composites...if you are building a composite airplane,
> don't use WEST for structural layups, or anything that advertises as
> "As Good As WEST".
>
> You pays your money, you takes your chances, but without the
> mechanicals, you take MORE chances. More than I care to make.
>

After the post above having to do with heat tollerace, I went to the US
composites website to look for their spec sheet.... no luck.... I am
leaning toward an alum plane anyway.... but I may call them and/or do
some tests if it comes time to make a custome tip or cowl...



--
ET >:)


"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams

[Nicholas Cafarelli]

While I have emailed both jgreer.com and uscomposites.com I have yet
to hear back. I continue to await engineering data, if indeed it is
available.

I wonder if the properties of their materials vary because of constant
slight changes in formulation. This might be possible if they are
changing resins, buying from the lowest bidder.

I was hoping someone experienced with the industry might see this
thread.

nc

[Bob Kuykendall]

Earlier, (Nicholas Cafarelli) wrote:

> I was hoping someone experienced with the industry might see this
> thread.

The guy you really want to talk to about epoxies is George Applebay in
Moriarty, NM, but I don't think he posts to RAH. He knows how modern
epoxies are formulated, and he's got a hatful of recipes for various
epoxies he makes from bulk stocks.

Bob K.

[Nicholas Cafarelli]

Thanks again Bob.

I am working to contact George Applebay.

[Ryan Young]

(Bob Kuykendall) wrote in message >...
> Earlier, (Nicholas Cafarelli) wrote:
>
> > I was hoping someone experienced with the industry might see this
> > thread.
>
> The guy you really want to talk to about epoxies is George Applebay in
> Moriarty, NM, but I don't think he posts to RAH. He knows how modern
> epoxies are formulated, and he's got a hatful of recipes for various
> epoxies he makes from bulk stocks.

Another industry guy that DOES post to Rec.Boatbuilding is Kern
Hendricks of System3 epoxies. He's remarkably even-handed about the
properties and chemistry, even of competitors.

[Nicholas Cafarelli]

As of today only George Applebay has responded to email. Neither
jgreer.com nor uscomposites.com have yet responded to requests for
information. I find this surprising though I feel it may not be
conclusively damning.

I have not yet attempted to contact Kern Hendricks. I note he has
made no posts for a very long time.

It does seem a bit puzzling that the two other companies have not
responded.

[ET]

(Nicholas Cafarelli) wrote in
om:

> As of today only George Applebay has responded to email. Neither
> jgreer.com nor uscomposites.com have yet responded to requests for
> information. I find this surprising though I feel it may not be
> conclusively damning.
>
> I have not yet attempted to contact Kern Hendricks. I note he has
> made no posts for a very long time.
>
> It does seem a bit puzzling that the two other companies have not
> responded.
>

Call UScomposites. I have found them very helpfull with questions on canoe
building.

--
ET >:)


"A common mistake people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools."---- Douglas Adams