Cheap tiny video cameras - what works best?

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

A previous thread discussed this, but didn't come to any conclusions, so
I'm hoping there is enough experience now to make recommendations for a
small video camera like the MD 80 or similar. Has anyone found a
reliable, easy to use unit?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

[guy]

A friend and I have been experimenting with the cheap chinese video
cameras that are packaged as an automobile remote control. These are
generically called 808 microcameras. They cost from 13-35 dollars.
They are great fun but the quality is random. The best part is that
you can experiment with all kinds of camera angles because you just
stick them where you want with some duct tape. I can see that once we
figure out the best camera positions we will be looking for higher
quality but for now it is cheap fun.
Guy

[T8]

On Feb 6, 2:19*pm, Eric Greenwell > wrote:
> A previous thread discussed this, but didn't come to any conclusions, so
> I'm hoping there is enough experience now to make recommendations for a
> small video camera like the MD 80 or similar. Has anyone found a
> reliable, easy to use unit?


I have an 808 keychain cam that shoots surprisingly good video at the
price, but is very fiddly to use, easy to end up with no video. It
also has the oddity of stretching the horizontal -- that can be
corrected later, but is just one more thing to do. I also have a
GoPro HeroHD (super wide angle) which is another kettle of fish
altogether, vastly better quality and priced accordingly. I've linked
sample videos with minimal editing here before -- look up "SoarNH" on
youtube.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

[Chris Nicholas[_2_]]

I have three of these 808 cameras, bought with Christmas present
vouchers via Amazon. One was more expensive, the other two as cheap as
they come. I'm glad I bought the expensive one, because it came with a
CD. Without that, is impossible to download videos to a computer and
view them.

Not yet had a chance to use them in the glider, but I have been
practising on the ground.

There are some really useful websites which help overcome the
inadequate instructions that come in the box the camera itself. See:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2pNpuXNqWA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66bnQucXBWk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo9aw_X0oXo&NR=1

Chris N

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 13:11:19 -0800, Chris Nicholas wrote:

> I have three of these 808 cameras, bought with Christmas present
> vouchers via Amazon. One was more expensive, the other two as cheap
> as they come. I'm glad I bought the expensive one, because it came
> with a CD. Without that, is impossible to download videos to a
> computer and view them.
>
????
There are two ways that don't need the disk:

- Connect the camera to your PC with the supplied USB cable
without removing the SD card.
The camera should show up on your desk top as a mass storage device,
just as though you'd plugged in a USB memory stick.

However, as everything about the cameras matches the price, sometimes
the USB cable is NBG, so try another.

- with any luck your micro-SD card came with a full-size SD-card carrier
that it clips into. Take it out of the camera, put it in the carrier
and then use a standard SD-card reader to read it like any other SD
card.

> Not yet had a chance to use them in the glider, but I have been
> practising on the ground.
>
Same here.

> There are some really useful websites which help overcome the inadequate
> instructions that come in the box the camera itself.
>
IMO this is one of the best: http://www.chucklohr.com/808
Its a bit chaotically organised, but it contains a huge amount of
information about the various camera models, using them, exactly what's
inside and where the bits came from.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Mike[_8_]]

On Feb 6, 4:57*pm, Martin Gregorie >
wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 13:11:19 -0800, Chris Nicholas wrote:
> > I have three of these 808 cameras, bought with Christmas present
> > vouchers via Amazon. One was more expensive, the other two as cheap
> > as they come. I'm glad I bought the expensive one, because it came
> > with a CD. Without that, is impossible to download videos to a
> > computer and view them.
>
> ????
> There are two ways that don't need the disk:
>
> - Connect the camera to your PC with the supplied USB cable
> * without removing the SD card.
> * The camera should show up on your desk top as a mass storage device,
> * just as though you'd plugged in a USB memory stick.
>
> * However, as everything about the cameras matches the price, sometimes
> * the USB cable is NBG, so try another.
>
> - with any luck your micro-SD card came with a full-size SD-card carrier
> * that it clips into. Take it out of the camera, put it in the carrier
> * and then use a standard SD-card reader to read it like any other SD
> * card.
>
> > Not yet had a chance to use them in the glider, but I have been
> > practising on the ground.
>
> Same here.
>
> > There are some really useful websites which help overcome the inadequate
> > instructions that come in the box the camera itself.
>
> IMO this is one of the best:http://www.chucklohr.com/808
> Its a bit chaotically organised, but it contains a huge amount of
> information about the various camera models, using them, exactly what's
> inside and where the bits came from.
>
> --
> martin@ * | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org * * * |

I see eletoponline on ebay have HD 1028 X 720P cameras they sell with
class 4 memory cards. Do class 4 cards actually work for HD video?

thanks,

Mike

[Grider Pirate]

On Feb 6, 3:57*pm, Martin Gregorie >
wrote:
> On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 13:11:19 -0800, Chris Nicholas wrote:
> > I have three of these 808 cameras, bought with Christmas present
> > vouchers via Amazon. One was more expensive, the other two as cheap
> > as they come. I'm glad I bought the expensive one, because it came
> > with a CD. Without that, is impossible to download videos to a
> > computer and view them.
>
> ????
> There are two ways that don't need the disk:
>
> - Connect the camera to your PC with the supplied USB cable
> * without removing the SD card.
> * The camera should show up on your desk top as a mass storage device,
> * just as though you'd plugged in a USB memory stick.
>
> * However, as everything about the cameras matches the price, sometimes
> * the USB cable is NBG, so try another.
>
> - with any luck your micro-SD card came with a full-size SD-card carrier
> * that it clips into. Take it out of the camera, put it in the carrier
> * and then use a standard SD-card reader to read it like any other SD
> * card.
>
> > Not yet had a chance to use them in the glider, but I have been
> > practising on the ground.
>
> Same here.
>
> > There are some really useful websites which help overcome the inadequate
> > instructions that come in the box the camera itself.
>
> IMO this is one of the best:http://www.chucklohr.com/808
> Its a bit chaotically organised, but it contains a huge amount of
> information about the various camera models, using them, exactly what's
> inside and where the bits came from.
>
> --
> martin@ * | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org * * * |

I bought 5 of them. All were supposed to be the version 3 (which was
the most consitantly good version), but not all were. I shot this
video with one taped to the wing, one taped to the horizontal stab of
the LVVS G103. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nDi1JvxwmM
The video is pretty good, but has 'hitches' (dropped frames) in
abundance. This site: http://chucklohr.com/ has more info about them
than you would ever want.
BTW, I used double stick foam tape to mount them, until one fell off
in-flight. Now I use double stick foam tape, with a bit of duct tape
over it.

[Chris Nicholas[_2_]]

Martin, connecting the camera to PC via a USB lead sometimes works and
sometimes doesn't. I don't know why. But the first time I tried it,
without having loaded the driver CD, it said it recognised there was
something there but couldn't open it.

After loading the CD, it worked fine at first.

After I posted my earlier message, I found on Techmoan's website (to
which I gave a link) that he has posted a download link for the
driver. I haven't tried it, as I already have the CD, and he says it
is the version 3, which may not work with others though I suspect it
probably would. So it looks like nobody need buy the more expensive
Amazon-sourced version (£24 vs £14, roughly).

I have used the method of putting the SD card into a holder and card
reader, and yes, that works. But I wasn't sure that it would work if I
had not already used the CD. I suppose it probably would be okay.

Chris N

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Mon, 07 Feb 2011 03:39:30 -0800, Chris Nicholas wrote:

> Martin, connecting the camera to PC via a USB lead sometimes works and
> sometimes doesn't. I don't know why. But the first time I tried it,
> without having loaded the driver CD, it said it recognised there was
> something there but couldn't open it.
>
I wonder if that was a bad USB cable? My camers has always 'just worked
off the USB cable.

> After loading the CD, it worked fine at first.
>
It would be interesting to know exactly what's on the CD - maybe a driver
with improved error handling and retries?

> After I posted my earlier message, I found on Techmoan's website (to
> which I gave a link) that he has posted a download link for the driver.
> I haven't tried it, as I already have the CD, and he says it is the
> version 3, which may not work with others though I suspect it probably
> would. So it looks like nobody need buy the more expensive
> Amazon-sourced version (£24 vs £14, roughly).
>
Interestig stuff, but no use to me: I run Linux so Windows drivers are
not a lot of use...

> I have used the method of putting the SD card into a holder and card
> reader, and yes, that works. But I wasn't sure that it would work if I
> had not already used the CD. I suppose it probably would be okay.
>
I don't see why not. The SD card remains a FAT-16 (or maybe FAT-32 format
if its bigger than 4 GB) and so standard USB mass storage drivers should
still know how to handle it. BTW, the stated max AVI file size of 4GB is
a FAT disk format limit rather than a camera quirk - the later, better
cameras can make longer recordings given an external power supply, but
they will chop it into 4GB chunks to get round that limit.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 17:08:28 -0800, Mike wrote:

> On Feb 6, 4:57Â*pm, Martin Gregorie >
> wrote:
>> On Sun, 06 Feb 2011 13:11:19 -0800, Chris Nicholas wrote:
>> > I have three of these 808 cameras, bought with Christmas present
>> > vouchers via Amazon. One was more expensive, the other two as cheap
>> > as they come. I'm glad I bought the expensive one, because it came
>> > with a CD. Without that, is impossible to download videos to a
>> > computer and view them.
>>
>> ????
>> There are two ways that don't need the disk:
>>
>> - Connect the camera to your PC with the supplied USB cable
>> Â* without removing the SD card.
>> Â* The camera should show up on your desk top as a mass storage device,
>> Â* just as though you'd plugged in a USB memory stick.
>>
>> Â* However, as everything about the cameras matches the price,
>> Â* sometimes the USB cable is NBG, so try another.
>>
>> - with any luck your micro-SD card came with a full-size SD-card
>> carrier
>> Â* that it clips into. Take it out of the camera, put it in the carrier
>> Â* and then use a standard SD-card reader to read it like any other SD
>> Â* card.
>>
>> > Not yet had a chance to use them in the glider, but I have been
>> > practising on the ground.
>>
>> Same here.
>>
>> > There are some really useful websites which help overcome the
>> > inadequate instructions that come in the box the camera itself.
>>
>> IMO this is one of the best:http://www.chucklohr.com/808 Its a bit
>> chaotically organised, but it contains a huge amount of information
>> about the various camera models, using them, exactly what's inside and
>> where the bits came from.
>>
>> --
>> martin@ Â* | Martin Gregorie
>> gregorie. | Essex, UK
>> org Â* Â* Â* |
>
> I see eletoponline on ebay have HD 1028 X 720P cameras they sell with
> class 4 memory cards. Do class 4 cards actually work for HD video?
>
I like the look of the 720p bullet cams sold by Dogcam:
http://www.dogcamsport.co.uk/

....but at 100 squids a throw it is in a rather different price range.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Guy[_7_]]

Just a few points on problems with interacting with the 808
microcameras via your computer.
First, supplied USB cables are very poor quality. If having problems,
first change to a USB cable that you know works well.
Second, the memory cards should be formatted outside of the camera.
Do not format the cards when they are in the camera.
Third, when formatting your cards, use FAT32.
These eliminated most of the issues I was having.
Also, the techy websites about these cameras emphasize these same
three things to eliminate most issues.
Guy

[Walt Connelly]

Don't know what tiny and cheap is supposed to mean but I have a Kodak Play Sport camera that does 1080p video and also shoots stills at 5 MegaPixels I think. Easy to use in the air holding with one hand and has a nice sized screen to view your pics. Cost about 150 bucks if I remember correctly. Also waterproof to 3meters. Excellent video quality and sound.

Walt

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 2/7/2011 3:33 PM, Walt Connelly wrote:
> Don't know what tiny and cheap is supposed to mean but I have a Kodak
> Play Sport camera that does 1080p video and also shoots stills at 5
> MegaPixels I think. Easy to use in the air holding with one hand and
> has a nice sized screen to view your pics. Cost about 150 bucks if I
> remember correctly. Also waterproof to 3meters. Excellent video quality
> and sound.

Cheap = less than $30 or so
Small = size of a pack of gum

I also intend to get a small, wide angle HD camera for cockpit and
external use that can run 8 hours and log it's internal GPS with the
video and audio. These are currently in the $250 to $350 range. A 3 axis
G sensor also desired, but not a show-stopper.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

[BruceGreeff]

Hui Eric

I purchased a Panasonic Lumix TZ10 for the wide angle HD + GPS camera part.
Have not flown with it yet.

Bruce

On 2011/02/08 4:54 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
> On 2/7/2011 3:33 PM, Walt Connelly wrote:
>> Don't know what tiny and cheap is supposed to mean but I have a Kodak
>> Play Sport camera that does 1080p video and also shoots stills at 5
>> MegaPixels I think. Easy to use in the air holding with one hand and
>> has a nice sized screen to view your pics. Cost about 150 bucks if I
>> remember correctly. Also waterproof to 3meters. Excellent video quality
>> and sound.
>
> Cheap = less than $30 or so
> Small = size of a pack of gum
>
> I also intend to get a small, wide angle HD camera for cockpit and
> external use that can run 8 hours and log it's internal GPS with the
> video and audio. These are currently in the $250 to $350 range. A 3 axis
> G sensor also desired, but not a show-stopper.
>

--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771 & Std Cirrus #57

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 2/7/2011 11:32 PM, BruceGreeff wrote:
> Hui Eric
>
> I purchased a Panasonic Lumix TZ10 for the wide angle HD + GPS camera part.
> Have not flown with it yet.
>

>> Eric Greenwell wrote:
>> I also intend to get a small, wide angle HD camera for cockpit and
>> external use that can run 8 hours and log it's internal GPS with the
>> video and audio. These are currently in the $250 to $350 range. A 3 axis
>> G sensor also desired, but not a show-stopper.

It looks like a very nice upgrade from Panasonic TZ5 camera I have, and
the newest TZ20/ZS10 looks even better.

The kind of "flight recorder" camera I'm interested in are like the
ContourHD GPS and the SBX1100. The SBX1100 is HD, but they have an HD
version coming out "soon", according to the company. I envision them
being mounted permanently on the glider and recording the entire flight,
so recording duration is more important than image quality.

The ContourHD is weatherproof, an adavantage for external mounting; the
SBX1100 style isn't weatherproof, and more suited to the cockpit.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)