DG Flugzeugbau - How to get rid of your customers

[Lars Peder Hansen]

For those of you with a strong stomach and a sound sense of humor, check out
Mr. Webers latest antics:
http://dg-flugzeugbau.de/betreuung-e.html

Cheers,
Lars Peder

[[email protected][_2_]]

On Feb 8, 10:29*am, "Lars Peder Hansen" >
wrote:
> For those of you with a strong stomach and a sound sense of humor, check out
> Mr. Webers latest antics:http://dg-flugzeugbau.de/betreuung-e.html
>
> Cheers,
> Lars Peder

So, what I see first is:

Free drawings

Free Technical Notes/S/B and AD's

Freee AFM and Repair manuals

That is more than some mfg's, at least two I know charge for all the
above...

aerodyne

[StaPo]

>
> So, what I see first is:
>
> Free drawings
>
> Free Technical Notes/S/B and AD's
>
> Freee AFM and Repair manuals
>
> That is more than some mfg's, at least two I know charge for all the
> above...
>
> aerodyne

Would be useful to read whole article, the "Free" in Mr. Weber's
newspeak should be understood as
"The annual premium will be 425.00 Euro flat for 2011. This is for a
"Full-Service-Agreement". All consecutive years will cost 245,00 for
each glider."

[brianDG303[_2_]]

The article is hard to understand, but I think the deal is that if you
signed up last year your cost will be 245.00 again this year, but if
not it's 425.00 this year and 245 going forward, so you don't escape
last years fee. It will be interesting to see how things work out in
the future, I think he will want to collect the fee all the way back
to 2010.

I know there will be a lot of Weber bashing but I see the position he
is in and it is costing him a ton of money to support all those
types. He could have handled it very differently for example he could
have bought just the rights to make a single LS type and not taken on
the whole legacy line. That would have left the legacy owners with no
support which is an option they have now, correct? Now if you have an
older DG or LS you have two options, supported or not supported. What
bugs me is the heavy handed 'pay me or you are grounded' attitude.

Brian


> "The annual premium will be 425.00 Euro flat for 2011. This is for a
> "Full-Service-Agreement". All consecutive years will cost 245,00 for
> each glider."

[Nigel Cottrell[_2_]]

The real point is that when he gets round to issuing an AD for
your glider the charge to prevent your glider becoming a garden
ornament will be all the back years 'Service Contract' + the cost
of the AD + any parts + VAT. So it isn't optional at all.
Look at the huge number of DG and LS gliders for sale.
He isn't just trying to extort money from owners but at the same
time destroying the value of their property.




At 20:39 08 February 2011, brianDG303 wrote:
>The article is hard to understand, but I think the deal is that if
you
>signed up last year your cost will be 245.00 again this year,
but if
>not it's 425.00 this year and 245 going forward, so you don't
escape
>last years fee. It will be interesting to see how things work out
in
>the future, I think he will want to collect the fee all the way
back
>to 2010.
>
>I know there will be a lot of Weber bashing but I see the
position he
>is in and it is costing him a ton of money to support all those
>types. He could have handled it very differently for example
he could
>have bought just the rights to make a single LS type and not
taken on
>the whole legacy line. That would have left the legacy owners
with no
>support which is an option they have now, correct? Now if you
have an
>older DG or LS you have two options, supported or not
supported. What
>bugs me is the heavy handed 'pay me or you are grounded'
attitude.
>
>Brian
>
>
>> "The annual premium will be 425.00 Euro flat for 2011. This
is for a
>> "Full-Service-Agreement". All consecutive years will cost
245,00 for
>> each glider."
>
>

[Dr. John]

Is it true that the EU is charging DG aprox $5000 a year to maintain
flight status for each glider type? If so, this is not a DG problem
but a EU problem. I feel bad for DG getting stuck in the middle of a
tax mess. I'm glad I live in the USA with my experimental status.
FLyingnsx

[cernauta]

On Tue, 8 Feb 2011 12:39:27 -0800 (PST), brianDG303
> wrote:

>[...] he could
>have bought just the rights to make a single LS type and not taken on
>the whole legacy line. That would have left the legacy owners with no
>support which is an option they have now, correct?

You mean, like the owners of other orphan gliders, such as Libelles?
They are supported by a firm which charges for work, upgrades or
parts, not for sheer ownership.

aldo cernezzi

[Peter F[_2_]]

No it's not true that EU or EASA charge DG $5000 per year per type.

DG are trying to force the owners of existing gliders to subsidise their
current operations.

DG simply build a fleet of gliders that no-one wants to buy.

LS8 - Possibly their best product, but no-one is buying Std Class anymore
LS10 / DG808 - Too late arriving on the market. Why would you buy one of
these in preference to a Ventus / ASG29 / JS1

DG1000 - Another good glider, but doesn't have the reputation of the Duo
for private owners. Too expensive for club use

DGs attitude to legacy LS owners has also put potential purchasers off.

Given that there is in fact little to chose between a Duo & DG1000 if I
was considering either I'd go for the Duo just to avoid dealing with DG.

PF

At 22:42 08 February 2011, Dr. John wrote:
>Is it true that the EU is charging DG aprox $5000 a year to maintain
>FLyingnsx
>

[Dr. John]

It's good to know that there is no big EASA tax behind the problem as
I was led to believe. I love my DG303 and hope they find a way to
stay in business and also not offend the entire customer base. Maybe
a DG-1001-F with flaps? Considering how difficult the glider
business is with material and labor costs, it's no surprise that only
the strongest and the best will remain in business. Dang, Darwin was
right again. I wonder if they worry about the JS-2 20 Meter that I'm
sure is in the works. I just wish a new glider cost would come down
to luxury car cost and not a mid-level home cost . I hate it when I
am dreaming about my future turbine sailplane and my wife reminds me
that our house cost less than my plane would. I guess if the glider
were nice enough, I might be able to sleep in it!

[Westbender]

On Feb 9, 2:45*pm, "Dr. John" > wrote:
> It's good to know that there is no big EASA tax behind the problem as
> I was led to believe. *I love my DG303 and hope they find a way to
> stay in business and also not offend the entire customer base. *Maybe
> a DG-1001-F with flaps? * Considering how difficult the glider
> business is with material and labor costs, it's no surprise that only
> the strongest and the best will remain in business. *Dang, Darwin was
> right again. *I wonder if they worry about the JS-2 *20 Meter that I'm
> sure is in the works. *I just wish a new glider cost would come down
> to luxury car cost and not a mid-level home cost . * I hate it when I
> am dreaming about my future turbine sailplane and my wife reminds me
> that our house cost less than my plane would. *I guess if the glider
> were nice enough, I might be able to sleep in it!

Well, if you buy one against your wife's wishes, you WILL be sleeping
in it! :o)

[Andreas Maurer]

On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 12:45:51 -0800 (PST), "Dr. John"
> wrote:

>It's good to know that there is no big EASA tax behind the problem as
>I was led to believe. I love my DG303 and hope they find a way to
>stay in business and also not offend the entire customer base.

No way DG is going to stay in business.

>Maybe
>a DG-1001-F with flaps?

Well...
Take a close look at this video od the DG-1000 destruction test:

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/Data/Videos/bruchversuch-i.wmv

The 1000 HAS had flaps from the beginning.
No idea why they never offered that version.



> I guess if the glider
>were nice enough, I might be able to sleep in it!

I know someone who does indeed sleep in his Ventus which is parked in
his garage...


Andreas

[Tony V]

Dr. John wrote:
> .....I love my DG303 and hope they find a way to
> stay in business and also not offend the entire customer base.


Too late.

Tony

[Mike Ash]

In article >,
Andreas Maurer > wrote:

> > I guess if the glider
> >were nice enough, I might be able to sleep in it!
>
> I know someone who does indeed sleep in his Ventus which is parked in
> his garage...

You can sleep in your glider, but you cannot fly your house. Always keep
this in mind when making financial plans.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

[Tony[_5_]]

>
> You can sleep in your glider, but you cannot fly your house. Always keep
> this in mind when making financial plans.
>

I tried to keep reminding Leah of this but it didn't really work. I
did get a huge garage though so I'm not complaining.

[kirk.stant]

On Feb 10, 12:02*pm, Mike Ash > wrote:
>
> You can sleep in your glider, but you cannot fly your house. Always keep
> this in mind when making financial plans.

As someone who has actually slept in his glider (my LS6, following a
spur of the moment XC flight from Phoenix to Parowan with $2 in my
wallet), I can only say that while the 6 is a wonderful sailplane, it
leaves a lot to be desired as a house.

The real reason for glider-camping was my lack of tie-down gear (and
with the 6 you really can't just use flight-line rope - nothing on the
wingtips to tie it to!) and the windy nighttime conditions. I figured
the best way to keep my glider available for the return flight the
next day was to stay in the cockpit or right next to it overnight.

And yes, I did make it back to Phoenix the next day - beautiful Cu's
the whole way.

Kirk
66

[Mike Ash]

In article
>,
"kirk.stant" > wrote:

> On Feb 10, 12:02*pm, Mike Ash > wrote:
> >
> > You can sleep in your glider, but you cannot fly your house. Always keep
> > this in mind when making financial plans.
>
> As someone who has actually slept in his glider (my LS6, following a
> spur of the moment XC flight from Phoenix to Parowan with $2 in my
> wallet), I can only say that while the 6 is a wonderful sailplane, it
> leaves a lot to be desired as a house.
>
> The real reason for glider-camping was my lack of tie-down gear (and
> with the 6 you really can't just use flight-line rope - nothing on the
> wingtips to tie it to!) and the windy nighttime conditions. I figured
> the best way to keep my glider available for the return flight the
> next day was to stay in the cockpit or right next to it overnight.
>
> And yes, I did make it back to Phoenix the next day - beautiful Cu's
> the whole way.

Note that you survived the experience, though, which is more than you
could probably say if you ever tried to use your house as a glider!

More seriously, thanks for the story. These XC adventures certainly can
be interesting. Based on how I feel after a long flight, I think I would
be unable to walk after spending a night in my 20.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

[SoaringXCellence]

Isn't that what happened to Dorothy "I don't think we're in Kansas
anymore"