Hemet Airport: FAA Ruling Supports Soaring Right of Airport Access

[HoUdino]

This is monumental.

The FAA ruling regarding the County of Riverside's banning of gliders
from the HMT has been released and completely supports soarings
continued use of HMT in So California.

We did this for ourselves, and we did this for everybody in soaring.

And we won!

We all now have a legal foundation in case law that supports soarings
right to fly at public use airports. Unless the public authority has
an "FAA Safety Study", they can not ban sailplane operations.

Sometimes the biggest news in soaring is not the new blinking gizmo on
your panel. ;-)

Thanks to many with special thanks to our attorney, Ron Cozad. The
County has 30 days....

We kicked their butts!

Larry Tuohino
Chris Mannion
Mary Rust
Orange County Soaring Association
HEMET, Ca

[Gary Evans[_2_]]

On Feb 15, 3:15*pm, HoUdino > wrote:
> This is monumental.
>
> The FAA ruling regarding the County of Riverside's banning of gliders
> from the HMT has been released and completely supports soarings
> continued use of HMT in So California.
>
> We did this for ourselves, and we did this for everybody in soaring.
>
> And we won!
>
> We all now have a legal foundation in case law that supports soarings
> right to fly at public use airports. Unless the public authority has
> an "FAA Safety Study", they can not ban sailplane operations.
>
> Sometimes the biggest news in soaring is not the new blinking gizmo on
> your panel. *;-)
>
> Thanks to many with special thanks to our attorney, Ron Cozad. *The
> County has 30 days....
>
> We kicked their butts!
>
> Larry Tuohino
> Chris Mannion
> Mary Rust
> Orange County Soaring Association
> HEMET, Ca

It is indeed. Good Job!

[jcarlyle]

Congratulations on fighting the good fight and winning! Here's hoping
the County decides to fold, and not torture you further.

-john


On Feb 15, 5:15 pm, HoUdino > wrote:
> This is monumental.
>
> The FAA ruling regarding the County of Riverside's banning of gliders
> from the HMT has been released and completely supports soarings
> continued use of HMT in So California.
>
> We did this for ourselves, and we did this for everybody in soaring.
>
> And we won!
>
> We all now have a legal foundation in case law that supports soarings
> right to fly at public use airports. Unless the public authority has
> an "FAA Safety Study", they can not ban sailplane operations.
>
> Sometimes the biggest news in soaring is not the new blinking gizmo on
> your panel. ;-)
>
> Thanks to many with special thanks to our attorney, Ron Cozad. The
> County has 30 days....
>
> We kicked their butts!
>
> Larry Tuohino
> Chris Mannion
> Mary Rust
> Orange County Soaring Association
> HEMET, Ca

[GK[_2_]]

On Feb 15, 4:15*pm, HoUdino > wrote:
> This is monumental.
>
> The FAA ruling regarding the County of Riverside's banning of gliders
> from the HMT has been released and completely supports soarings
> continued use of HMT in So California.
>
> We did this for ourselves, and we did this for everybody in soaring.
>
> And we won!
>
> We all now have a legal foundation in case law that supports soarings
> right to fly at public use airports. Unless the public authority has
> an "FAA Safety Study", they can not ban sailplane operations.
>
> Sometimes the biggest news in soaring is not the new blinking gizmo on
> your panel. *;-)
>
> Thanks to many with special thanks to our attorney, Ron Cozad. *The
> County has 30 days....
>
> We kicked their butts!
>
> Larry Tuohino
> Chris Mannion
> Mary Rust
> Orange County Soaring Association
> HEMET, Ca

Congratulations!
It is truly astonishing that FAA ruled in favor of soaring operation.

[vaughn[_3_]]

"HoUdino" > wrote in message
...
> We all now have a legal foundation in case law that supports soarings
> right to fly at public use airports. Unless the public authority has
> an "FAA Safety Study", they can not ban sailplane operations.
>

Congratulations and thank you!

Can you supply any links to documents?


Vaughn

[Bob Kuykendall]

On Feb 15, 2:15*pm, HoUdino > wrote:
> This is monumental...

It sure is, Larry! You and your friends totally rock!

Take a bow, you fought the good fight and won.

Thanks, Bob K.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 2/15/2011 2:39 PM, GK wrote:
> On Feb 15, 4:15 pm, > wrote:
>
>> We kicked their butts!
>>
>> Larry Tuohino
>> Chris Mannion
>> Mary Rust
>> Orange County Soaring Association
>> HEMET, Ca
>
> Congratulations!
> It is truly astonishing that FAA ruled in favor of soaring operation.

It's not amazing to me - I think they are pretty touchy about other
people deciding who can and who can't use an airport that FAA funds went
to. In our area, they were a major factor (years ago) in keeping the
airspace open over the Hanford project area (640 square miles!), while
DOE wanted to restrict it surface to 10,000'. The FAA can be quite
helpful in preventing airport and airspace grabs by "other people", in
my experience.

So, please, no reflexive disparaging of the FAA. Hemet is not an
isolated incident.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

[Andy[_1_]]

On Feb 15, 3:15*pm, HoUdino > wrote:
> This is monumental.
>
> The FAA ruling regarding the County of Riverside's banning of gliders
> from the HMT has been released and completely supports soarings
> continued use of HMT in So California.
>
> We did this for ourselves, and we did this for everybody in soaring.
>
> And we won!
>
> We all now have a legal foundation in case law that supports soarings
> right to fly at public use airports. Unless the public authority has
> an "FAA Safety Study", they can not ban sailplane operations.
>
> Sometimes the biggest news in soaring is not the new blinking gizmo on
> your panel. *;-)
>
> Thanks to many with special thanks to our attorney, Ron Cozad. *The
> County has 30 days....
>
> We kicked their butts!
>
> Larry Tuohino
> Chris Mannion
> Mary Rust
> Orange County Soaring Association
> HEMET, Ca

Nice job! I've only flown there one in a glider but now there's a
chance I'll do it again.

Andy

[Larry Goddard]

Very well done!!!

Thank you!


Zero One


"HoUdino" > wrote in message
:

> This is monumental.
>
> The FAA ruling regarding the County of Riverside's banning of gliders
> from the HMT has been released and completely supports soarings
> continued use of HMT in So California.
>
> We did this for ourselves, and we did this for everybody in soaring.
>
> And we won!
>
> We all now have a legal foundation in case law that supports soarings
> right to fly at public use airports. Unless the public authority has
> an "FAA Safety Study", they can not ban sailplane operations.
>
> Sometimes the biggest news in soaring is not the new blinking gizmo on
> your panel. ;-)
>
> Thanks to many with special thanks to our attorney, Ron Cozad. The
> County has 30 days....
>
> We kicked their butts!
>
> Larry Tuohino
> Chris Mannion
> Mary Rust
> Orange County Soaring Association
> HEMET, Ca

[HoUdino]

The SSA has a link on its main page up at top of right hand column.
The decision is very detailed with many issues addressed.

http://www.ssa.org/files/member/OC%20Soaring%20v.%20Riverside%2016-09-13%202.11.11.pdf

The local newspapers should open up a barrage on the County by this
weekend...it ain't over until they cry "uncle". We have momentum.

LT



> Can you supply any links to documents?
>
> Vaughn

[glidergeek]

Congrats to you all....Now what are you going to do? Who's going to be
the first to buy a tow plane and start an operation at HMT? I never
did doubt for a minute that my glider with that N number on the tail
didn't have the right to land or take off from HMT or any other
airport of the like. Thanks for your persistence!

[MickiMinner]

>
> We all now have a legal foundation in case law that supports soarings
> right to fly at public use airports. Unless the public authority has
> an "FAA Safety Study", they can not ban sailplane operations.
>
> Sometimes the biggest news in soaring is not the new blinking gizmo on
> your panel. *;-)


I can't tell you how much i appreciate your work/time/effort/talent
in this important issue! having a "precedent" is so important,
especially
in the western half of the USA (read the national park fly-over
thread).
I have been watching with great interest..and am impressed.
Thank you from ALL of us that love the sport.
mm

[HoUdino]

As petitioners, OCSA has the ball. The worst thing would be for some
cowboy to wonder in and "assert their right". We are still in a
minefield, they are hunkered down in their foxhole looking for an
opening. We have plenty of ammo. DO NOT STUPIDLY WALK INTO NO MANS
LAND

We have a battleplan, but obviously it is best kept underwraps.

If we need help, you know I am not shy to ask.

LT



On Feb 15, 8:46*pm, glidergeek > wrote:
> Congrats to you all....Now what are you going to do? Who's going to be
> the first to buy a tow plane and start an operation at HMT? *I never
> did doubt for a minute that my glider with that N number on the tail
> didn't have the right to land or take off from HMT or any other
> airport of the like. Thanks for your persistence!

[smithcorp]

Great news - I've followed this story with interest.

[fcnorton]

Congratulations Larry to you and all the others who worked so hard on
this issue.

So satisfying to see the "good guys" win one for a change.

FC Norton

[Andy[_10_]]

On Feb 16, 7:44*pm, fcnorton > wrote:
> Congratulations Larry to you and all the others who worked so hard on
> this issue.
>
> So satisfying to see the "good guys" win one for a change.
>
> FC Norton

Well done! Hopefully this creates a disincentive for similar airport/
airspace grabs.

Enjoy your reclaimed airport!

9B

[HoUdino]

We may have won for all of soaring at the national FAA level but the
County has not yet shown the white flag. It is at this moment good
relations with the local news media becomes handy. Today's story:

http://www.pe.com/localnews/hemet/stories/PE_News_Local_D_egliders17.274f96f.html

More to come....hee hee hee...fingers crossed.

LT


> Well done! *Hopefully this creates a disincentive for similar airport/
> airspace grabs.
>
> Enjoy your reclaimed airport!
>
> 9B

[HoUdino]

I'm hearing my link above to the PE story is not working...so below is
the story copied in whole. What you don't see is that in another part
of the paper the District Attorney is going after our original nemesis
Jeff Stone. The tenticles of graft appear to be wide spread with Jeff
at the political center. Gliders are just part of his story/political
undoing. A train wreck couldn't happen to a more
deserving...er...self-serving.... guy.

LT


HEMET: FAA rules gliders wrongly ousted from airport



Download story podcast



10:00 PM PST on Wednesday, February 16, 2011

By JOHN ASBURY
The Press-Enterprise


The Federal Aviation Administration has ruled that a Hemet glider club
may return to a Hemet airport it had been forced out of by Riverside
County.

In a ruling issued this week, the FAA said a safety evaluation found
that two parallel runways at the Hemet-Ryan Airport could operate
simultaneously, contrary to the county's claims.

The issue has been under review since late 2009 when the Orange County
Soaring Association was ordered off the airport property, where it had
been based since 1991, and the runway the gliders used was closed.

Story continues below

2009 / The Press-Enterprise
A rift has been under review since 2009 when the Orange County Soaring
Association was ordered off Hemet-Ryan Airport, where it had been
based since 1991. The county can appeal the FAA decision or present a
plan to accommodate the gliders, or it risks losing all federal
funding for the airport.
"We always felt the airport can still be shared by all the users
including us," Chris Mannion, vice president of the soaring club, said
Wednesday. "All we looked for was for the county to let us be part of
this discussion on how use the airport. But the expedient thing for
them to do was to toss us off the airfield."

Riverside County now has 30 days to appeal the decision or present a
plan to accommodate the gliders, or it risks losing all federal
funding for the airport.

"Riverside County is in violation of federal law and the federal grant
obligations," according to the order.

Riverside County officials were still reviewing the FAA ruling, which
they had just received Wednesday, to decide whether to appeal, said
Chad Davies, senior airport development specialist for the county. The
Riverside County Economic Development Agency oversees the airport.

When county officials ordered the soaring club to leave the airport in
September 2009, they said it was because it was unsafe for gliders to
use a smaller runway that was 300 feet from the main runway.

Since then, gliders have been allowed to land at the Hemet airport,
but they could not be stationed at the site or use the main runway for
takeoff.

Davies said Thursday that county officials believe safety issues
remain at the airport, and will review procedures and work with the
FAA to address any outstanding issues. He said the current plan still
poses a liability.

"We see a dangerous situation and we're moving to head off an incident
before someone is killed," Davies said.

The FAA ruled that airport officials did not offer sufficient evidence
that the runway needed to be closed for safety reasons. It said they
could not restrict access and continue to receive federal funding.

A safety audit conducted at the airport last year found that gliders
could operate safely from the runway, according to the ruling.

FAA officials did make several recommendations that glider pilots said
they would agree to.

Recommendations include that all glider pilots should make calls on an
airport frequency, and that glider launches should be provided a two-
minute window clear of other runway traffic.

County officials said the gliders' removal was unrelated to a plan to
relocate or expand the Cal Fire Air Attack base that is housed at the
airport. The airport's main 4,300-foot runway is slated to be extended
by 1,300 feet as part of a $19 million renovation.

Mannion said since the soaring association was displaced from the
airport, its membership has waned. The approximately 100 gliders that
had been based in Hemet now use other airfields in Orange County, Lake
Elsinore, the Coachella Valley and the Mojave Desert.

Members said Hemet provided an ideal location because of the winds
that come off Mount San Jacinto and allow glider pilots to fly across
the area and as far as the Mexican border and the coast.

"It's really killed our club," Mannion said. "Once they shut down
operations, it scattered our members to various fields and had a real
chilling effect. This is a great asset to Hemet and we're looking
forward to return to start flying again."

[Wayne Paul]

Try this link http://tinyurl.com/Hemet-FAA

Wayne

"HoUdino" > wrote in message ...
> I'm hearing my link above to the PE story is not working...so below is
> the story copied in whole. What you don't see is that in another part
> of the paper the District Attorney is going after our original nemesis
> Jeff Stone. The tenticles of graft appear to be wide spread with Jeff
> at the political center. Gliders are just part of his story/political
> undoing. A train wreck couldn't happen to a more
> deserving...er...self-serving.... guy.
>
> LT
>
>
> HEMET: FAA rules gliders wrongly ousted from airport
>
>
>
> Download story podcast
>
>
>
> 10:00 PM PST on Wednesday, February 16, 2011
>
> By JOHN ASBURY
> The Press-Enterprise
>
>
> The Federal Aviation Administration has ruled that a Hemet glider club
> may return to a Hemet airport it had been forced out of by Riverside
> County.
>
> In a ruling issued this week, the FAA said a safety evaluation found
> that two parallel runways at the Hemet-Ryan Airport could operate
> simultaneously, contrary to the county's claims.
>
> The issue has been under review since late 2009 when the Orange County
> Soaring Association was ordered off the airport property, where it had
> been based since 1991, and the runway the gliders used was closed.
>
> Story continues below
>
> 2009 / The Press-Enterprise
> A rift has been under review since 2009 when the Orange County Soaring
> Association was ordered off Hemet-Ryan Airport, where it had been
> based since 1991. The county can appeal the FAA decision or present a
> plan to accommodate the gliders, or it risks losing all federal
> funding for the airport.
> "We always felt the airport can still be shared by all the users
> including us," Chris Mannion, vice president of the soaring club, said
> Wednesday. "All we looked for was for the county to let us be part of
> this discussion on how use the airport. But the expedient thing for
> them to do was to toss us off the airfield."
>
> Riverside County now has 30 days to appeal the decision or present a
> plan to accommodate the gliders, or it risks losing all federal
> funding for the airport.
>
> "Riverside County is in violation of federal law and the federal grant
> obligations," according to the order.
>
> Riverside County officials were still reviewing the FAA ruling, which
> they had just received Wednesday, to decide whether to appeal, said
> Chad Davies, senior airport development specialist for the county. The
> Riverside County Economic Development Agency oversees the airport.
>
> When county officials ordered the soaring club to leave the airport in
> September 2009, they said it was because it was unsafe for gliders to
> use a smaller runway that was 300 feet from the main runway.
>
> Since then, gliders have been allowed to land at the Hemet airport,
> but they could not be stationed at the site or use the main runway for
> takeoff.
>
> Davies said Thursday that county officials believe safety issues
> remain at the airport, and will review procedures and work with the
> FAA to address any outstanding issues. He said the current plan still
> poses a liability.
>
> "We see a dangerous situation and we're moving to head off an incident
> before someone is killed," Davies said.
>
> The FAA ruled that airport officials did not offer sufficient evidence
> that the runway needed to be closed for safety reasons. It said they
> could not restrict access and continue to receive federal funding.
>
> A safety audit conducted at the airport last year found that gliders
> could operate safely from the runway, according to the ruling.
>
> FAA officials did make several recommendations that glider pilots said
> they would agree to.
>
> Recommendations include that all glider pilots should make calls on an
> airport frequency, and that glider launches should be provided a two-
> minute window clear of other runway traffic.
>
> County officials said the gliders' removal was unrelated to a plan to
> relocate or expand the Cal Fire Air Attack base that is housed at the
> airport. The airport's main 4,300-foot runway is slated to be extended
> by 1,300 feet as part of a $19 million renovation.
>
> Mannion said since the soaring association was displaced from the
> airport, its membership has waned. The approximately 100 gliders that
> had been based in Hemet now use other airfields in Orange County, Lake
> Elsinore, the Coachella Valley and the Mojave Desert.
>
> Members said Hemet provided an ideal location because of the winds
> that come off Mount San Jacinto and allow glider pilots to fly across
> the area and as far as the Mexican border and the coast.
>
> "It's really killed our club," Mannion said. "Once they shut down
> operations, it scattered our members to various fields and had a real
> chilling effect. This is a great asset to Hemet and we're looking
> forward to return to start flying again."
>

[glidergeek]

On Feb 17, 7:31*am, HoUdino > wrote:
> We may have won for all of soaring at the national FAA level but the
> County has not yet shown the white flag. It is at this moment good
> relations with the local news media becomes handy. *Today's story:
>
> http://www.pe.com/localnews/hemet/stories/PE_News_Local_D_egliders17....
>
> More to come....hee hee hee...fingers crossed.
>
> LT
>
> > Well done! *Hopefully this creates a disincentive for similar airport/
> > airspace grabs.
>
> > Enjoy your reclaimed airport!
>
> > 9B

Good leverage here

"County officials said the gliders' removal was unrelated to a plan to
relocate or expand the Cal Fire Air Attack base that is housed at the
airport. The airport's main 4,300-foot runway is slated to be extended
by 1,300 feet as part of a $19 million renovation".

[HoUdino]

What everyone on rec.soaring CAN do is comment on the newspaper
website...going back and doing so now would be very helpful. The
comment goes to the reporter and tells the newspaper via hits that the
story is of interest to its readers encouraging them to continue
highlighting the story in future issues. It doesn't matter what you
say, where you live, what language you speak.... so long as it is pro-
glider

Try this link http://tinyurl.com/Hemet-FAA

So please...log back online to the story on the newspapers website,
join the comment section at the bottom of the story, and "vent your
true feelings"...anger, fond memories, legal analysis, wacko theories,
anti-politician/County...all OK and very helpful. Give em the full 9
yards...

Do it NOW....!!!!!!

LT





On Feb 17, 9:16*am, "Wayne Paul" > wrote:
> Try this linkhttp://tinyurl.com/Hemet-FAA
>
> Wayne
>
>

[HoUdino]

FYI, here is the same story from the PE's competition no opportunity/
need for you to comment:

http://www.swrnn.com/southwest-riverside/2011-02-17/news/faa-booting-of-gliders-at-hemet-ryan-airport-was-unreasonable

You guys did a great job commenting at the Press-Enterprise's website,
THANKS!

Time to wait and see the Counties next move...hopefully it will raise
the white flag.

Again, thank you all for your help.

LT