L13/L23 gliders

[Pavel Rind]

Dear aviation friends,

my name is Pavel Rind and I am representing an approved maintenance
organisation for L 13/L13A/L23 and L33 gliders produced by former LET
Kunovice Czech Republic.

We have recently finished a repair and complete refurbrishment of L 23
Super Blanik G-.CFYF located at York airfiled. We are now planning a
transport of this glider back to the UK. We expect that we can stay in the
UK from 11-15 th March 2011 and we would like to inform all owners and
operators of Blaniks that we can provide the following service free of
charge on your airfiled:
-check of current technical condition of these gliders,
- technical advice
- or any other support you need.

More information about our company and our works can be f
found on our website www.air-tech.cz

If anyone is intersted in meeting with us, please do not hesitate to
contact me on: +420 603 716 856 or email:

I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards

Pavel Rind
Air-Tech Ltd Holešov, Czech Republic, Europe.

[[email protected]]

On Feb 23, 3:26*am, Pavel Rind > wrote:
> Dear aviation friends,
>
> my name is Pavel Rind and I am representing an approved maintenance
> organisation for L 13/L13A/L23 and L33 gliders produced by former LET
> Kunovice Czech Republic.
>
> We have recently finished a repair and complete refurbrishment of L 23
> Super Blanik G-.CFYF located at York airfiled. We are now planning a
> transport of this glider back to the UK. We expect that we can stay in the
> UK from 11-15 th March 2011 and we would like to inform all owners and
> operators of Blaniks that we can provide the following service free of
> charge on your airfiled:
> -check of current technical condition of these gliders,
> - technical advice
> - or any other support you need.
>
> More information about our company and our works can be f
> found on our websitewww.air-tech.cz
>
> If anyone is intersted in meeting with us, please do not hesitate to
> contact me on: +420 603 716 856 or email:
>
> I look forward to hearing from you.
>
> Best regards
>
> Pavel Rind
> Air-Tech Ltd Hole ov, Czech Republic, Europe. *

You're kidding us right? (You seem to be overlooking just one teeny,
tiny, small detail!!)


Cookie

[sisu1a]

> You're kidding us right? *(You seem to be overlooking just one
teeny,
> tiny, small detail!!)
>
> Cookie

Perhaps he's from that 1 country that didn't seem to get the memo...

-Paul

[Darryl Ramm]

On Feb 23, 12:26*am, Pavel Rind > wrote:
> Dear aviation friends,
>
> my name is Pavel Rind and I am representing an approved maintenance
> organisation for L 13/L13A/L23 and L33 gliders produced by former LET
> Kunovice Czech Republic.
>
> We have recently finished a repair and complete refurbrishment of L 23
> Super Blanik G-.CFYF located at York airfiled. We are now planning a
> transport of this glider back to the UK. We expect that we can stay in the
> UK from 11-15 th March 2011 and we would like to inform all owners and
> operators of Blaniks that we can provide the following service free of
> charge on your airfiled:
> -check of current technical condition of these gliders,
> - technical advice
> - or any other support you need.
>
> More information about our company and our works can be f
> found on our websitewww.air-tech.cz
>
> If anyone is intersted in meeting with us, please do not hesitate to
> contact me on: +420 603 716 856 or email:
>
> I look forward to hearing from you.
>
> Best regards
>
> Pavel Rind
> Air-Tech Ltd Hole ov, Czech Republic, Europe.

I don't need an L13 inspection but can I book this guy to do some
stand up comedy for our gliding club?

Darryl

[jsbrake[_2_]]

I note that he included L23 and L33, which are still flying.

My question is about doing free inspections. Who does anything in the
glider world for free?

[Tony[_5_]]

On Feb 23, 1:06*pm, jsbrake > wrote:
> I note that he included L23 and L33, which are still flying.
>
> My question is about doing free inspections. *Who does anything in the
> glider world for free?

instructors, towpilots, and other dedicated club members

[Canav8]

My question is who approved the maintenance organization? D

[[email protected]]

On Feb 23, 2:06*pm, jsbrake > wrote:
> I note that he included L23 and L33, which are still flying.
>
> My question is about doing free inspections. *Who does anything in the
> glider world for free?

It is like the car dealers who offer "free" inspction...and then
recommend you get new brakes, tune up, oil change transmission job,
ball joints, new a frame etc...


Cookie

[Tim Mara]

he was talking about an L23 they inspected......
and for what I understand the L-13's are flying in the Czech
republic.....it's the rest of the world that is waiting for the official AD
resolution....
Gliders with a "known" history can be returned to service with factory
overhauls (as they do in the Czech republic) and with complete
records...those with sketchy records and dubious maintenance are the ones
that are causing the manufacture and CZ FAA the concerns......
and will be the cause of whatever additional inspections are necessary to
prove them airworthy..
tim


"sisu1a" > wrote in message
...
> You're kidding us right? (You seem to be overlooking just one
teeny,
> tiny, small detail!!)
>
> Cookie

Perhaps he's from that 1 country that didn't seem to get the memo...

-Paul

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database 5901 (20110223) __________

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[Tim Mara]

and this is all pretty legit.......I'd be happy to have a good mechanic
recommend and quote a service repair for free!
no one says you need to have them do the work if you don't like what they
quote
sounds like a good business plan to me
tim

> wrote in message
...
On Feb 23, 2:06 pm, jsbrake > wrote:
> I note that he included L23 and L33, which are still flying.
>
> My question is about doing free inspections. Who does anything in the
> glider world for free?

It is like the car dealers who offer "free" inspction...and then
recommend you get new brakes, tune up, oil change transmission job,
ball joints, new a frame etc...


Cookie

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5901 (20110223) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com





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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

[[email protected]]

Has this happened in the USA?

How much $$ for a "factory overhaul"? What is the turn around time?

Is the "factory" doing overhauls?



Cookie

> Gliders with a "known" history can be returned to service with factory
> overhauls (as they do in the Czech republic) and with complete
> records...>

[[email protected][_2_]]

On Feb 23, 5:27*pm, "
> wrote:
> Has this happened in the USA?
>
> How much $$ for a "factory overhaul"? * What is the turn around time?
>
> Is the "factory" doing overhauls?
>
> Cookie
>
>
>
> > Gliders with a "known" history can be returned to service with factory
> > overhauls (as they do in the Czech republic) and with complete
> > records...>- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

No, the factory is not doing any work, nor supplying parts directly.
We need to band together and buy the TC a la Eclipse. Not likely,
IMO, based on the response on this board and the FAA comment page..

[BruceGreeff]

I believe there used to be a program where you sent your L13 to the
factory and got it back with zero timed wings.

No longer available as the manufacturer is concentrating on < 40 year
old designs...

This is a 1956 design - pre Finite element analysis and CAD and all
those other things.
It was designed to build using the abundant cheap, skilled labour
available in the Soviet Union. I assume the factory stopped the rebuilds
because of simple economics...
You have to question whether it will be economically viable to keep
this fleet flying.

And - yes I have many hours of "unusual attitudes" in an L13, and it was
a lot of fun, and a good intermediate trainer. Wayne and I once did 11
consecutive loops at the end of a little cross country. But there's the
trouble, I doubt our club L13 had many flights that did not include at
least one steep turn, or chandelle, or whatever. That makes them all
aerobatic time - so the glider is scrap, under the current AD...
I would love there to be an economical way to return them to service,
but am not optimistic.

Bruce

On 2011/02/24 3:27 AM, wrote:
> Has this happened in the USA?
>
> How much $$ for a "factory overhaul"? What is the turn around time?
>
> Is the "factory" doing overhauls?
>
>
>
> Cookie
>
>> Gliders with a "known" history can be returned to service with factory
>> overhauls (as they do in the Czech republic) and with complete
>> records...>

--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771 & Std Cirrus #57

[[email protected]]

> No longer available as the manufacturer is concentrating on < 40 year
> old designs...
>
> This is a 1956 design - pre Finite element analysis and CAD and all
> those other things.
> It was designed to build using the abundant cheap, skilled labour
> available in the Soviet Union. I assume the factory stopped the rebuilds
> because of simple economics...
> You have to question whether it will be economically *viable to keep
> this fleet flying.
>
> I would love there to be an economical way to return them to service,
> but am not optimistic.
>
> Bruce
>
>
> --
> Bruce Greeff

Right.........so this "Pavel" guy is still a joke!

I wish my (former) club would just face facts and "get over it".
Their Blanik is junk. We got about 20 years of service for about
$12,000..........not a bad deal at all.....$600 a year.....(especially
when you count the twenty previous years of service somebody else got)

Our airport does need a new wind tee........they were quoted several
thousand to have one fabricated....hmmmmm...

Cookie


Cookie

[Tim Hanke]

I sent in e-mail to Pavel to get his take on the L-13 Grounding...
here was the response:

Hi Tim,

Thank you for your email.

Yes, we are in close touch with LET and at this moment the new
inspection
method is developed and all documents and details about the wing root
area
inspection were sent to EASA for the final approval. If everything
goes
smooth we expect that at the beginning of March more information will
be
released.

The new inspection will be based on eddy current waves and should
allow the
check of wing root area without opening the wing.

When I get more information, I will contact you.

Thank you.

Best regards

Pavel Rind









On Feb 23, 6:38*pm, "Tim Mara" > wrote:
> he was talking about an L23 they inspected......
> and for what I understand the L-13's are flying in the Czech
> republic.....it's the rest of the world that is waiting for the official AD
> resolution....
> Gliders with a "known" history can be returned to service with factory
> overhauls (as they do in the Czech republic) and with complete
> records...those with sketchy records and dubious maintenance are the ones
> that are causing the manufacture and CZ FAA the concerns......
> and will be the cause of whatever additional inspections are necessary to
> prove them airworthy..
> tim
>
> "sisu1a" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > You're kidding us right? (You seem to be overlooking just one
> teeny,
> > tiny, small detail!!)
>
> > Cookie
>
> Perhaps he's from that 1 country that didn't seem to get the memo...
>
> -Paul
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 5901 (20110223) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5901 (20110223) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com

[[email protected]]

On 2/24/2011 12:20 AM, wrote:
>
> No, the factory is not doing any work, nor supplying parts directly.
> We need to band together and buy the TC a la Eclipse. Not likely,
> IMO, based on the response on this board and the FAA comment page..

Tim is in possession of a L-13 fresh out of a "factory overhaul". Maybe,
he will elaborate more, as to whether, it is considered eligible to be
airworthy by the FAA at this time, or, if, it requires more compliance work.

[Pat Russell[_2_]]

On Feb 24, 7:09*am, This "Cookie" guy > wrote:
>
> Right.........so this "Pavel" guy is still a joke!

Mr. Pavel Rind represents a large engineering/maintenance company that
EASA has certified as a Continuing Airworthiness Management
Organization (CAMO). These certifications are not just handed out.
It is an expensive endeavor to be certified, and it is a major
accomplishment, especially in Eastern Europe. The name of the company
is Air-Tech Ltd http://www.air-tech.cz/index-a.htm They do first
class work on a large number of airframes and powerplants.

Mr. Pavel Rind is leading a small group of engineers on a trip to
deliver a completely restored Blanik L-23 to a customer in the UK.
Recognizing that such service is unusual, Mr. Pavel Rind has taken it
upon himself to offer his team's expertise to other owner/operators of
Blanik gliders in Britain.

Mr. Pavel Rind is in close communication with Aircraft Industries a.s.
and the Prague Research and Testing Institute (the people who are
working on the L-13 problem). The first implementation of any
approved modification to the L-13 will probably take place under the
supervision of Mr. Pavel Rind.

Mr. Pavel Rind is a dedicated professional with our interests at
heart. He is a hero, not a joke.

[[email protected]]

On Feb 24, 9:11*am, Pat Russell > wrote:
> On Feb 24, 7:09*am, This "Cookie" guy > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Right.........so this "Pavel" guy is still a joke!
>
> Mr. Pavel Rind represents a large engineering/maintenance company that
> EASA has certified as a Continuing Airworthiness Management
> Organization (CAMO). *These certifications are not just handed out.
> It is an expensive endeavor to be certified, and it is a major
> accomplishment, especially in Eastern Europe. *The name of the company
> is Air-Tech Ltdhttp://www.air-tech.cz/index-a.htm*They do first
> class work on a large number of airframes and powerplants.
>
> Mr. Pavel Rind is leading a small group of engineers on a trip to
> deliver a completely restored Blanik L-23 to a customer in the UK.
> Recognizing that such service is unusual, Mr. Pavel Rind has taken it
> upon himself to offer his team's expertise to other owner/operators of
> Blanik gliders in Britain.
>
> Mr. Pavel Rind is in close communication with Aircraft Industries a.s.
> and the Prague Research and Testing Institute (the people who are
> working on the L-13 problem). *The first implementation of any
> approved modification to the L-13 will probably take place under the
> supervision of Mr. Pavel Rind.
>
> Mr. Pavel Rind is a dedicated professional with our interests at
> heart. *He is a hero, not a joke.

We'll see how this all pans out.........March begins in 5 days!

I still see the humor in the original post, which seems to have
avoided the issue of (almost) worldwide grounding of the L-13.

Cookie

[Tim Mara]

amazing how few owners know about these, or if they know have ever attempted
to accomplish them.....pretty easy to hide from your local mechanic who is
doing the paper annuals too.if he doesn't research the glider documents he
won't find them and simply sign off the log book as being "airworthy".this
isn't just the L-13 Blaniks, I'm in constant amazement of how few know or
actually do what is required to maintain an airworthy glider....the TCDS
lists the basic requirements, the operators manuals and "supplementary
manuals for "tem limited" parts are supplied from the manufacturer..these
dictate most of what has to be done at " time " intervals.....
Most Blaniks had a 2000 TT limit when new, at that time they were "run out"
and no longer airworthy....but, if they were overhauled they then had
extended life limits, typically another 500 hours - 1000 hours depending on
which overhaul was accomplished....and so on...in Europe they could be
returned to the manufacturer, or to one of their approved repair
stations...here...you can buy from Blanik America the technical notes that
outline the overhauls, tough these were from the Australian aircraft
authority and then accepted by the US and recognized by LET as documents
outlining the overhaul procedures (contact Blanik America to find out more)
I believe the problem exists with the current AD because there is
insufficient data on many Blaniks and poor record keeping so the
manufacturer has no way they can simply come up with a blanket fix for
all....those with proper history, known history of the types of tows, number
of aerobatic hours ect. Blaniks in the Czech republic (I have to say that
they tend to take maintenance far more seriously there than the average
owners in N. America ) are typically well cared for, well maintained and
well documented....and for this the manufacture can take what data is
presented there and make the assumptions of what is needed to return each
one to service.
This may be a Blanik concern today but it doesn't mean all other gliders are
immune.....we need to start taking maintenance issues far more seriously
here.
contact Blanik America, he can get you the overhaul proceedures
tim

> wrote in message
...
> Has this happened in the USA?
>
> How much $$ for a "factory overhaul"? What is the turn around time?
>
> Is the "factory" doing overhauls?
>
>
>
> Cookie
>
>> Gliders with a "known" history can be returned to service with factory
>> overhauls (as they do in the Czech republic) and with complete
>> records...>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 5905 (20110224) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5905 (20110224) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

[BruceGreeff]

Ms? Cookie

I said nothing about Mr Rind, who I believe is a respected professional.

What I DID say is that the repair / maintenance for release to service
would probably be uneconomical . The opinion of the eddy current testing
professionals I spoke to around here is that the cost of special probes
and analysis required would probably be a substantial fraction of the
airframe's value. Considering that this test would probably have to be
repeated every 300-500 hours (one pessimist opined 100 hours) it becomes
a very expensive airframe to maintain in an airworthy state.

So - I hope to be proven wrong, and the comments from Mr Rind elsewhere
indicate that I may be.

Glider pilots are optimists - we have to be to get in an aircraft with
no means of propulsion and honestly expect to fly hundreds of
kilometres. Let's hope the optimism is justified in this case.

Cheers
Bruce

--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771 & Std Cirrus #57

[Tim Mara]

not exactly true......we imported an L13 just last fall from the Czech
republic that did go back to the mfgr and was overhauled there.....
tim


> wrote in message
...
On Feb 23, 5:27 pm, "
> wrote:
> Has this happened in the USA?
>
> How much $$ for a "factory overhaul"? What is the turn around time?
>
> Is the "factory" doing overhauls?
>
> Cookie
>
>
>
> > Gliders with a "known" history can be returned to service with factory
> > overhauls (as they do in the Czech republic) and with complete
> > records...>- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

No, the factory is not doing any work, nor supplying parts directly.
We need to band together and buy the TC a la Eclipse. Not likely,
IMO, based on the response on this board and the FAA comment page..

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5905 (20110224) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com





__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5905 (20110224) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

[[email protected]]

OK so we have a recently "factory overhauled" L-13 is it airwothy? If
not what happens next and when?


OK....So we have a grounded Blanik L-13 with bad records.......

What happens next? And when?

Lot's of talk on the subject, but I don't see these glider any closer
to flying anytime soon!

Cookie

[[email protected]]

Bruce,

That will be "MISTER" Cookie to you! LOL

We are in agreement about the state of the Blanik.....Also about Mr.
Rind.


I disagree with your optimism. I am pragmatic.

Mr. Cookie



On Feb 24, 4:43*pm, BruceGreeff > wrote:
> Ms? Cookie
>
> I said nothing about Mr Rind, who I believe is a respected professional.
>
> What I DID say is that the repair / maintenance for release to service
> would probably be uneconomical . The opinion of the eddy current testing
> professionals I spoke to around here is that the cost of special probes
> and analysis required would probably be a substantial fraction of the
> airframe's value. Considering that this test would probably have to be
> repeated every 300-500 hours (one pessimist opined 100 hours) it becomes
> a very expensive airframe to maintain in an airworthy state.
>
> So - I hope to be proven wrong, and the comments from Mr Rind elsewhere
> indicate that I may be.
>
> Glider pilots are optimists - we have to be to get in an aircraft with
> no means of propulsion and honestly expect to fly hundreds of
> kilometres. Let's hope the optimism is justified in this case.
>
> Cheers
> Bruce
>
> --
> Bruce Greeff
> T59D #1771 & Std Cirrus #57

[[email protected][_2_]]

On Feb 24, 1:50*pm, "Tim Mara" > wrote:
> not exactly true......we imported an L13 just last fall from the Czech
> republic that did go back to the mfgr and was overhauled there.....
> tim

When did you start the process, in the Spring? If so, that may well
be true...my info indicates they are no longer in the Blanik repair or
parts business.

I know of a case where a control bridge was purchased from the Mfg
July last year, only to find out it was not new or remanufactured but
had been "overhauled" by an "approved" repair station. It did not
pass dye check, and the buying party got screwed.

I wonder why I am wasting time on this thread - Viteck is the factory
rep, and he has news on the BA page. Too bad he did not post to this
group and save us some time!

Aerodyne

[[email protected][_2_]]

I emailed Vitek and recieved a prompt reply, in essence:

The inspection method has been defined and is awaiting EASA approval.
Vitek is awaiting further news from the Factory.

Aerodyne

[Pavel Rind]

Dear Sirs,

according to the lastest information we have, the manufacturer and holder
of STC Aircraft Industries a.s. Kunovice has already sent an application
form for evaluation of their checking method of root area to EASA. We now
expact that in couple of days we shoul receive more information and maybe
new AD whic should release these airplanes back to service.

Our company Air-Tech Ltd Holešov, Czech Republic is working on our own
modification of L 13/L13 A Blanik and the first roll out is expected at
the end of March 2011. This modification will be fully accepted by EASA.
We are now reworking 4 airplanes which will be flying in Austria.

Best regards

Pavel Rind
















At 15:28 26 February 2011, wrote:
>
>I emailed Vitek and recieved a prompt reply, in essence:
>
>The inspection method has been defined and is awaiting EASA approval.
>Vitek is awaiting further news from the Factory.
>
>Aerodyne
>
>