Whatdayathink..

[Tom S.]

A few months I ran my idea of acquiring a Commander 114/115.

As was pointed out to me, the numbers historically sold and the companies
current financial plight makes future parts availability questionable.

After some digging and evaluation, I am now considering bypassing my 2nd
choice as well, which was a T182RG.

My current selection is based on a few (amongst other) factors, the most
crucial of which are:

* Performance
* Availability of parts and service (No Paggio's, thank you)
* Good history in terms of reliability and maintainability.
* Comfort (I'm 6'1", 205 and big in the shoulders)

My trips are typically going to be 300-700 miles with very few of them
carrying three passengers.

I think I'm settling on a Beech F33A. I've found quite a few that are late
80's and early 90's models, some with less than 1,000 hours. Being out in
the Rocky Mountain West, I'm also likely going to add the Tornado Alley
Whirlwind turbonormalizing system.

Your comments, warnings and advisories are welcome.

Thanks,

Tom

[Rich Hare]

Sounds like you have figured out your "mission" first, and then selected
the tool to accomplish it.

I now own my 3rd Bonanza, and love it.

Suggest you access:

http://www.beechcraft.org/vtail/

and consider joining the mail-list from that site (about 100 messages
per day). A rambunctious and cantankerous group, some times, but no
more knowledgeable group of Bonanza owners exists.

Rich

Tom S. wrote:
> A few months I ran my idea of acquiring a Commander 114/115.
>
> As was pointed out to me, the numbers historically sold and the companies
> current financial plight makes future parts availability questionable.
>
> After some digging and evaluation, I am now considering bypassing my 2nd
> choice as well, which was a T182RG.
>
> My current selection is based on a few (amongst other) factors, the most
> crucial of which are:
>
> * Performance
> * Availability of parts and service (No Paggio's, thank you)
> * Good history in terms of reliability and maintainability.
> * Comfort (I'm 6'1", 205 and big in the shoulders)
>
> My trips are typically going to be 300-700 miles with very few of them
> carrying three passengers.
>
> I think I'm settling on a Beech F33A. I've found quite a few that are late
> 80's and early 90's models, some with less than 1,000 hours. Being out in
> the Rocky Mountain West, I'm also likely going to add the Tornado Alley
> Whirlwind turbonormalizing system.
>
> Your comments, warnings and advisories are welcome.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
>

[Tom S.]

"Rich Hare" > wrote in message
...
> Sounds like you have figured out your "mission" first, and then selected
> the tool to accomplish it.
>
> I now own my 3rd Bonanza, and love it.
>
> Suggest you access:
>
> http://www.beechcraft.org/vtail/
>
> and consider joining the mail-list from that site (about 100 messages
> per day). A rambunctious and cantankerous group, some times, but no
> more knowledgeable group of Bonanza owners exists.
>
> Rich

Rambunctious and Bonanza-owner is redundant, isn't it? :~)

>
> Tom S. wrote:
> > A few months back I ran my idea of acquiring a Commander 114/115 in
here.
> >
> > As was pointed out to me, the numbers historically sold and the
companies
> > current financial plight makes future parts availability questionable.
> >
> > After some digging and evaluation, I am now considering bypassing my 2nd
> > choice as well, which was a T182RG.
> >
> > My current selection is based on a few (amongst other) factors, the most
> > crucial of which are:
> >
> > * Performance
> > * Availability of parts and service (No Paggio's, thank you)
> > * Good history in terms of reliability and maintainability.
> > * Comfort (I'm 6'1", 205 and big in the shoulders)
> >
> > My trips are typically going to be 300-700 miles with very few of them
> > carrying three passengers.
> >
> > I think I'm settling on a Beech F33A. I've found quite a few that are
late
> > 80's and early 90's models, some with less than 1,000 hours. Being out
in
> > the Rocky Mountain West, I'm also likely going to add the Tornado Alley
> > Whirlwind turbonormalizing system.
> >
> > Your comments, warnings and advisories are welcome.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Tom

[Michael 182]

"Tom S." > wrote in message
...
> A few months I ran my idea of acquiring a Commander 114/115.
>
> As was pointed out to me, the numbers historically sold and the companies
> current financial plight makes future parts availability questionable.
>
> After some digging and evaluation, I am now considering bypassing my 2nd
> choice as well, which was a T182RG.
>
> My current selection is based on a few (amongst other) factors, the most
> crucial of which are:
>
> * Performance
> * Availability of parts and service (No Paggio's, thank you)
> * Good history in terms of reliability and maintainability.
> * Comfort (I'm 6'1", 205 and big in the shoulders)
>
> My trips are typically going to be 300-700 miles with very few of them
> carrying three passengers.
>

Curious why you are bypassing the TR182. I have one that I fly out of
Colorado, and it seems to fulfill your mission pretty well. That said, I
wouldn't mind trading up to a Bonanza, but I think a comparably equipped
Bonanza would be quite a bit more expensive. Just wndering what madethe
decision...

Michael

[Tom S.]

"Michael 182" > wrote in message
news:O2wpb.95810$Tr4.258451@attbi_s03...
>
> "Tom S." > wrote in message
> ...
> > A few months I ran my idea of acquiring a Commander 114/115.
> >
> > As was pointed out to me, the numbers historically sold and the
companies
> > current financial plight makes future parts availability questionable.
> >
> > After some digging and evaluation, I am now considering bypassing my 2nd
> > choice as well, which was a T182RG.
> >
> > My current selection is based on a few (amongst other) factors, the most
> > crucial of which are:
> >
> > * Performance
> > * Availability of parts and service (No Paggio's, thank you)
> > * Good history in terms of reliability and maintainability.
> > * Comfort (I'm 6'1", 205 and big in the shoulders)
> >
> > My trips are typically going to be 300-700 miles with very few of them
> > carrying three passengers.
> >
>
> Curious why you are bypassing the TR182. I have one that I fly out of
> Colorado, and it seems to fulfill your mission pretty well. That said, I
> wouldn't mind trading up to a Bonanza, but I think a comparably equipped
> Bonanza would be quite a bit more expensive. Just wndering what madethe
> decision...
>

A rough running carbureted engine as opposed to a smooth injected engine
(especially after it gets the GAMI injectors, primarily. Also, a bird that's
ten years newer with one third the hours on it.

Also, the fact that the 182RG has a gear system that is a b*^$tch to
maintain.

When the Bonanza gets the Turbo Alley Whirlwind system on it, it will
outperform even a T210. http://www.taturbo.com/520features.html and
http://www.taturbo.com/performance.html

I have about 350 hours in a 182RG and it was a nice plane...20 years ago,
but Cessna just didn't keep up with the technology. Not to knock Cessna
entirely....this coming Spring I will be getting a CE-525 type rating and
nothing, by any manufacturer, comes close to a Citation CJ. :~)

[Newps]

Tom S. wrote:

> A rough running carbureted engine as opposed to a smooth injected engine
> (especially after it gets the GAMI injectors, primarily. Also, a bird that's
> ten years newer with one third the hours on it.

Any engine can be smooth or rough.


>
> Also, the fact that the 182RG has a gear system that is a b*^$tch to
> maintain.

Yes, but the later ones are really good.

>
> When the Bonanza gets the Turbo Alley Whirlwind system on it, it will
> outperform even a T210. http://www.taturbo.com/520features.html and
> http://www.taturbo.com/performance.html

Well it should. It is a slipprier airframe with the same power.


>
> I have about 350 hours in a 182RG and it was a nice plane...20 years ago,

But you are comparing it to a Bo. Nothing new there.


> but Cessna just didn't keep up with the technology. Not to knock Cessna
> entirely....this coming Spring I will be getting a CE-525 type rating and
> nothing, by any manufacturer, comes close to a Citation CJ. :~)

Keep looking, there's lots out there.

[Tom S.]

"Newps" > wrote in message
news:Cnzpb.74894$ao4.204958@attbi_s51...
>
>
> Tom S. wrote:
>
> > A rough running carbureted engine as opposed to a smooth injected engine
> > (especially after it gets the GAMI injectors, primarily. Also, a bird
that's
> > ten years newer with one third the hours on it.
>
> Any engine can be smooth or rough.

Yes...but some are inherently rougher than others.

>
>
> >
> > Also, the fact that the 182RG has a gear system that is a b*^$tch to
> > maintain.
>
> Yes, but the later ones are really good.

But it's still an overly complex arrangement. In slang it's called a "Rube
Goldberg fix".

>
> >
> > When the Bonanza gets the Turbo Alley Whirlwind system on it, it will
> > outperform even a T210. http://www.taturbo.com/520features.html and
> > http://www.taturbo.com/performance.html
>
> Well it should. It is a slipprier airframe with the same power.

And that's why I'm leaning towards the F33A... :~) 167kts at 11gph and
200kts top end.

>
>
> >
> > I have about 350 hours in a 182RG and it was a nice plane...20 years
ago,
>
> But you are comparing it to a Bo. Nothing new there.
>
>
> > but Cessna just didn't keep up with the technology. Not to knock Cessna
> > entirely....this coming Spring I will be getting a CE-525 type rating
and
> > nothing, by any manufacturer, comes close to a Citation CJ. :~)
>
> Keep looking, there's lots out there.

Not any newer than 1985, there's not.

[Fred Wolf]

I am in a similar situation,, I think the F33 is a good choice,, probably,
the Mooney is too small for you, have you considered a used Cirrus SR22,,
probably a great choice...most used ones have less than 400 hrs




>
>
>
>
>

[Tom S.]

"Fred Wolf" > wrote in message
...
> I am in a similar situation,, I think the F33 is a good choice,, probably,
> the Mooney is too small for you, have you considered a used Cirrus SR22,,
> probably a great choice...most used ones have less than 400 hrs
>
Yes, I considered the Cirrus and declined. For one thing, every one I find
is more money than the 1993 Bonanza I'm considering.

In my original post, I posted my initial requirements, one of which is a
established parts supply chain and a reputation for rugged construction and
reliability. A reputation that is derived over several years. The Cirrus
line has been around, what, three or four years?

[Michael 182]

Just curious. A 1993 Bonanza with the turbo-normalized engine sounds like a
fantastic plane - certainly an upgrade over any 182. Enjoy!

Michael

[Tom S.]

"Michael 182" > wrote in message
news:6VEpb.100448$Tr4.267829@attbi_s03...
> Just curious. A 1993 Bonanza with the turbo-normalized engine sounds like
a
> fantastic plane - certainly an upgrade over any 182. Enjoy!
>
> Michael
>
Thanks for your input and pardon my playing the "devil's advocate".

When I think about the choices available, I must say the T182RG was a
"sentimental choice". My first trip with the lady who later became my wife
was in a T182. I took her from Denver to Belle Fourche, SD (her home town)
to visit her folks (Sept. 19, 1980). She called her dad (my future
father-in-law) to "pick us up at the airport". He thought "Rapid City", and
she said, "No, Belle". It was a kick (ego!!!) watching him as we taxied up
to the ramp and got out. What an introduction to your potential in-laws,
huh? Also, my kids all got their first rides in that plane (1978 T182RG,
N28336).

Now I look back and see that Cessna made no real changes to that bird in
nearly 35-40 years. I began as a fixed gear that could be stowed. Beech, at
least, had kept up with the technology and even lead with a design that did
evolve with the time (fuel injection, different engines...).

This plane will be used about 75% for business and 25% for personal travel.
Hopefully. in short order, my grandkids (come on, girls...Dad needs
grandkids) will get their first trips in this one.

No contracts signed yet, but so far I'm definitely leaning towards the F33.
Probably finalize the purchase and mods just before the year end.

[Tom S.]

"Fred Wolf" > wrote in message
...
> I am in a similar situation,, I think the F33 is a good choice,, probably,
> the Mooney is too small for you,

Yes, the Mooney is phenomenal...if you're skinny. I definitely DO NOT fit
that category. :~)

> have you considered a used Cirrus SR22,,
> probably a great choice...most used ones have less than 400 hrs

I still can't "get my head around one of those...".

When I think of where the industry has been the past 50 years, I get real
excited (no, I don't exactly wet myself...not yet anyway) when I think of
what might be coming in the next 50 years. I think Cirrus and Lancair will
certainly be leaders in those areas.

Okay...all those that think Cirrus and Lancair "stole something" from the
Grumman Tiger, raise their hand. :~)

Tom
"We have clearance, Clarence!"