Critical Contest Safety Procedures Checklist

[John Godfrey (QT)[_2_]]

A new document entitled "Critical Contest Safety Procedures Checklist"
has been posted on the SSA rules page. We hope contest organizers and
participants find this a helpful guide to key safety considerations.
Thanks to BB for his efforts.

http://www.ssa.org/files/member/Contest%20Safety%20Checklist.pdf

For the Committee,
John Godfrey (QT)
SSA Rules Committee

[Karen]

On Apr 11, 2:22*pm, "John Godfrey (QT)" >
wrote:
> A new document entitled "Critical Contest Safety Procedures Checklist"
> has been posted on the SSA rules page. We hope contest organizers and
> participants find this a helpful guide to key safety considerations.
> Thanks to BB for his efforts.
>
> http://www.ssa.org/files/member/Contest%20Safety%20Checklist.pdf
>
> For the Committee,
> John Godfrey (QT)
> SSA Rules Committee

Do the procedures for contests also include tow pilots NOT cutting off
gliders in the pattern for landing when sharing the same runway? i.e.,
(both same alt, patten tows)

Michael

[[email protected]]

On Apr 11, 8:10*pm, Karen > wrote:
> On Apr 11, 2:22*pm, "John Godfrey (QT)" >
> wrote:
>
> > A new document entitled "Critical Contest Safety Procedures Checklist"
> > has been posted on the SSA rules page. We hope contest organizers and
> > participants find this a helpful guide to key safety considerations.
> > Thanks to BB for his efforts.
>
> >http://www.ssa.org/files/member/Contest%20Safety%20Checklist.pdf
>
> > For the Committee,
> > John Godfrey (QT)
> > SSA Rules Committee
>
> Do the procedures for contests also include tow pilots NOT cutting off
> gliders in the pattern for landing when sharing the same runway? i.e.,
> (both same alt, patten tows)
>
> Michael

Sounds like you have a story to tell.
UH

[JJ Sinclair[_2_]]

> Sounds like you have a story to tell.
> UH- Hide quoted text -

When I read about spoilers open on tow or conflicts in the pattern, I
can't believe some are still operating without radios in this day and
age. The SSA has urged us to all use radios, but they can't mandate
it. The RC can and should, for contests. Why don't the rules make a
simple com-check as the rope is hooked up,mandatory? Why don't the
rules state that all will report turning down-wind to runway XX?
Region 11 has lost 4 good pilots in the last 10 years, all due to
lack of radio communications. Enough of these preventable accidents!
JJ

[Karen]

On Apr 12, 5:25*am, wrote:
> On Apr 11, 8:10*pm, Karen > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 11, 2:22*pm, "John Godfrey (QT)" >
> > wrote:
>
> > > A new document entitled "Critical Contest Safety Procedures Checklist"
> > > has been posted on the SSA rules page. We hope contest organizers and
> > > participants find this a helpful guide to key safety considerations.
> > > Thanks to BB for his efforts.
>
> > >http://www.ssa.org/files/member/Contest%20Safety%20Checklist.pdf
>
> > > For the Committee,
> > > John Godfrey (QT)
> > > SSA Rules Committee
>
> > Do the procedures for contests also include tow pilots NOT cutting off
> > gliders in the pattern for landing when sharing the same runway? i.e.,
> > (both same alt, patten tows)
>
> > Michael
>
> Sounds like you have a story to tell.
> UH- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

At two different contests, I was alarmed (and the participants seemed
not to be) to be passed omn the right or left by thier own towplane,
less than two wingspans separation, just after release, racing to the
runway to save seconds and maybe less than a gallon of gas. Even on
practice days, when time was not necessarily so of the esesence.

Been asked to support a contest this year with two towplanes, but not
up on all rules and procedures, sharing the field with 4 other tug
providers and a mandate to get 200 gliders in the air in 90 minutes.
On the other hand, I have seen other national and regional
competitions run so professional and smooth with simple understandings
and a seperate piece of grass for the towplanes. Michael

[[email protected]]

On Apr 12, 11:18*am, Karen > wrote:
> On Apr 12, 5:25*am, wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 11, 8:10*pm, Karen > wrote:
>
> > > On Apr 11, 2:22*pm, "John Godfrey (QT)" >
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > A new document entitled "Critical Contest Safety Procedures Checklist"
> > > > has been posted on the SSA rules page. We hope contest organizers and
> > > > participants find this a helpful guide to key safety considerations..
> > > > Thanks to BB for his efforts.
>
> > > >http://www.ssa.org/files/member/Contest%20Safety%20Checklist.pdf
>
> > > > For the Committee,
> > > > John Godfrey (QT)
> > > > SSA Rules Committee
>
> > > Do the procedures for contests also include tow pilots NOT cutting off
> > > gliders in the pattern for landing when sharing the same runway? i.e.,
> > > (both same alt, patten tows)
>
> > > Michael
>
> > Sounds like you have a story to tell.
> > UH- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> At two different contests, I was alarmed (and the participants seemed
> not to be) to be passed omn the right or left by thier own towplane,
> less than two wingspans separation, just after release, racing to the
> runway to save seconds and maybe less than a gallon of gas. Even on
> practice days, when time was not necessarily so of the esesence.
>
> Been asked to support a contest this year with two towplanes, but not
> up on all rules and procedures, sharing the field with 4 other tug
> providers and a mandate to get 200 gliders in the air in 90 minutes.
> On the other hand, I have seen other national and regional
> competitions run so professional and smooth with simple understandings
> and a seperate piece of grass for the towplanes. *Michael- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Sounds like the examples you describe would dictate a talk with the
chief tow pilot who is responsible for
ops procedures related to towing.
I would be interested in where the operation was that had tow pilots
not leaving the release area and descending after
release.
To correct one statement above- we have no contests in the US, other
than the upcoming 2012 WGC that have more than 65 entries.
UH

[mike]

On Apr 11, 2:22*pm, "John Godfrey (QT)" >
wrote:
> A new document entitled "Critical Contest Safety Procedures Checklist"
> has been posted on the SSA rules page. We hope contest organizers and
> participants find this a helpful guide to key safety considerations.
> Thanks to BB for his efforts.
>
> http://www.ssa.org/files/member/Contest%20Safety%20Checklist.pdf
>
> For the Committee,
> John Godfrey (QT)
> SSA Rules Committee

Thank you

[MickiMinner]

>
> > A new document entitled "Critical Contest Safety Procedures Checklist"
> > has been posted on the SSA rules page. We hope contest organizers and
> > participants find this a helpful guide to key safety considerations.
> > Thanks to BB for his efforts.
>
> >http://www.ssa.org/files/member/Contest%20Safety%20Checklist.pdf
>
> > For the Committee,
> > John Godfrey (QT)
> > SSA Rules Committee
>
> Thank you

John and John....both of you are the BEST! I will certainly introduce
and give my pilots this new checklist this summer. I can't thank you
two for all you do. The sport is so much safer because of work like
this. thank you.
Charlie"Lite" and Micki

[Dan Marotta]

On Apr 12, 8:06*pm, MickiMinner > wrote:
> > > A new document entitled "Critical Contest Safety Procedures Checklist"
> > > has been posted on the SSA rules page. We hope contest organizers and
> > > participants find this a helpful guide to key safety considerations.
> > > Thanks to BB for his efforts.
>
> > >http://www.ssa.org/files/member/Contest%20Safety%20Checklist.pdf
>
> > > For the Committee,
> > > John Godfrey (QT)
> > > SSA Rules Committee
>
> > Thank you
>
> John and John....both of you are the BEST! *I will certainly introduce
> and give my pilots this new checklist this summer. *I can't thank you
> two for all you do. *The sport is so much safer because of work like
> this. *thank you.
> Charlie"Lite" and Micki

How could a tow plane pass the glider it just released unless the
glider was in the lead at release? And wouldn't that be scary?

I have towed literally hundreds of pattern tows in the past year and,
except for rare circumstances, I fly a tighter pattern than the
glider. The glider usually releases at mid-field downwind and turns
slightly away to the right to achieve his desired ground track. I
continue to accelerate to pattern speed, begin my 180 degree
descending base turn when abeam the numbers (or sooner or later
depending on winds), land long, clear the runway, execute a 180, stop,
and watch the glider on short final some 1,500 feet away. I see no
reason to delay the next takeoff waiting for the glider to complete a
pattern and land before I do. Of course I wait for the landing glider
to stop before taxiing forward to hook up the next glider.

If there is another aircraft in the pattern necessitating me to extend
my pattern, I'll break out and allow the glider I just released to
land first.

It's all about planning and judgment...

[ContestID67[_2_]]

Great document. Thanks.

Concerning "Spratt guidelines of 2500’ AGL to launch, 3300’ AGL to
start, should be followed unless there is a good reason."

This is ambiguous as to what is being referenced for the AGL height.
Cloudbase? Critical updraft height? BL height? Sniffer max height?
Beer fumes from the bacchanalia the night before? ;-)

Thanks.

[Mike the Strike]

On Apr 13, 9:58*am, ContestID67 > wrote:
> Great document. *Thanks.
>
> Concerning "Spratt guidelines of 2500’ AGL to launch, 3300’ AGL to
> start, should be followed unless there is a good reason."
>
> This is ambiguous as to what is being referenced for the AGL height.
> Cloudbase? *Critical updraft height? *BL height? *Sniffer max height?
> Beer fumes from the bacchanalia the night before? *;-)
>
> Thanks.

I'm pretty sure this is top of the lift actually achieved by gliders
in the air. 3300 ft AGL is probably workable for many eastern sites
and possibly Hobbs but I would hesitate to start a task in Arizona
this low. Contestants are likely to be soon on the ground at local
strips or eating cactus! I personally would recommend a minimum of
5,000 ft AGL here.

Mike

[[email protected]]

On Apr 13, 2:56*pm, Mike the Strike > wrote:
> On Apr 13, 9:58*am, ContestID67 > wrote:
>
> > Great document. *Thanks.
>
> > Concerning "Spratt guidelines of 2500’ AGL to launch, 3300’ AGL to
> > start, should be followed unless there is a good reason."
>
> > This is ambiguous as to what is being referenced for the AGL height.
> > Cloudbase? *Critical updraft height? *BL height? *Sniffer max height?
> > Beer fumes from the bacchanalia the night before? *;-)
>
> > Thanks.
>
> I'm pretty sure this is top of the lift actually achieved by gliders
> in the air. 3300 ft AGL is probably workable for many eastern sites
> and possibly Hobbs but I would hesitate to start a task in Arizona
> this low. *Contestants are likely to be soon on the ground at local
> strips or eating cactus! *I personally would recommend a minimum of
> 5,000 ft AGL here.
>
> Mike

Spratt 2500 to launch is derived from a "standard" 2000 ft AGL tow
and, of course, we don't fly closer than 500 vertically from clouds.
3300 AGL is min recommended to open task. That does not say CD and
advisors must open at that. Local situations may dictate higher.
Example in the East- at new Castle 3300 above airport is only 800 or
so above some important local terrain. as result, the "go" there is
set higher.
I hope this clarifies a bit.
UH

[Andy[_1_]]

On Apr 13, 9:58*am, ContestID67 > wrote:
> Great document. *Thanks.
>
> Concerning "Spratt guidelines of 2500’ AGL to launch, 3300’ AGL to
> start, should be followed unless there is a good reason."
>
> This is ambiguous as to what is being referenced for the AGL height.
> Cloudbase? *Critical updraft height? *BL height? *Sniffer max height?
> Beer fumes from the bacchanalia the night before? *;-)
>
> Thanks.

I think the amswers are - launch if sniffer reports reaching 2,500agl
and Task open if task adviser in that class reports reaching 3,300
agl.

The CD may, or may not, ask other pilots what height they have
achieved before opening the task. Who is asked may depend on who was
nice to the CD the evening before.

Andy

[Tony[_5_]]

>
> I'm pretty sure this is top of the lift actually achieved by gliders
> in the air. 3300 ft AGL is probably workable for many eastern sites
> and possibly Hobbs but I would hesitate to start a task in Arizona
> this low. *Contestants are likely to be soon on the ground at local
> strips or eating cactus! *I personally would recommend a minimum of
> 5,000 ft AGL here.
>
> Mike

just because the task is open doesn't mean you have to start, right?

[mattm[_2_]]

On Apr 13, 5:30*pm, Tony > wrote:
> > I'm pretty sure this is top of the lift actually achieved by gliders
> > in the air. 3300 ft AGL is probably workable for many eastern sites
> > and possibly Hobbs but I would hesitate to start a task in Arizona
> > this low. *Contestants are likely to be soon on the ground at local
> > strips or eating cactus! *I personally would recommend a minimum of
> > 5,000 ft AGL here.
>
> > Mike
>
> just because the task is open doesn't mean you have to start, right?

Right; check your rules. The gate doesn't actually close until local
sunset.

-- Matt

[ContestID67[_2_]]

So the "Spratt" (God rest his soul) line might be changed to;

OLD: "Spratt guidelines of 2500’ AGL to launch, 3300’ AGL to start,
should be followed unless there is a good reason."
NEW: "Spratt guidelines of sniffer reporting 2500’ AGL to launch,
contestants/sniffer reporting 3300’ AGL to start, should be followed
unless there is a good reason for higher minimums."

[John Cochrane[_2_]]

On Apr 14, 4:21*pm, ContestID67 > wrote:
> So the "Spratt" (God rest his soul) line might be changed to;
>
> OLD: "Spratt guidelines of 2500’ AGL to launch, 3300’ AGL to start,
> should be followed unless there is a good reason."
> NEW: "Spratt guidelines of sniffer reporting 2500’ AGL to launch,
> contestants/sniffer reporting 3300’ AGL to start, should be followed
> unless there is a good reason for higher minimums."

This is not a rule, it's a guideline, and "unless there is a good
reason" is there for a reason! Yes, if you're in the boondocks, set a
higher limit. If you're in extremely hospitable farm country and have
a small number of gliders at the contest, lower limits are
appropriate.

The main point is, it is good practice to set some sort of
quantitative guidance for launch and task open in any given contest,
and at least consider it while making these tough decisions.

John Cochrane