Cross Country Minimums

[Fred Blair[_2_]]

What are the minimum experience levels required at your club before a
member is allowed to get out of gliding distance back to the home
gliderport, i.e. go cross country?

Thanks,
Fred
Houston, TX

[T[_2_]]

On Apr 13, 7:37*pm, Fred Blair > wrote:
> What are the minimum experience levels required at your club before a
> member is allowed to get out of gliding distance back to the home
> gliderport, i.e. go cross country?
>
> Thanks,
> Fred
> Houston, TX

Defining x-c as "outside of gliding distance" back to the club airport
or "more than one thermal away".
We ask our students to stay close, we make sure they have good
thermaling techniques before we encourage them to go farther. Our
mandate is that they don't leave the valley, which keeps them 7 to 10
miles around the airport.
We have 2 dry lakes within 5 miles, this encourages them to "travel"
keeping those lakes within glide, wet/dry lake permitting. We will
aero retrieve from those lakes for the same charge as a tow from the
home airport.

Students don't leave the valley, but they can get away because of the
dry lakes as a safety net. Around here the only place to safely land
is the club airport or the dry lakes. After their check ride, we work
on going to the next valley.

T

[Alan[_6_]]

In article > T > writes:
>On Apr 13, 7:37=A0pm, Fred Blair > wrote:
>> What are the minimum experience levels required at your club before a
>> member is allowed to get out of gliding distance back to the home
>> gliderport, i.e. go cross country?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Fred
>> Houston, TX
>
>Defining x-c as "outside of gliding distance" back to the club airport
>or "more than one thermal away".
>We ask our students to stay close, we make sure they have good
>thermaling techniques before we encourage them to go farther. Our
>mandate is that they don't leave the valley, which keeps them 7 to 10
>miles around the airport.
>We have 2 dry lakes within 5 miles, this encourages them to "travel"
>keeping those lakes within glide, wet/dry lake permitting. We will
>aero retrieve from those lakes for the same charge as a tow from the
>home airport.
>
>Students don't leave the valley, but they can get away because of the
>dry lakes as a safety net. Around here the only place to safely land
>is the club airport or the dry lakes. After their check ride, we work
>on going to the next valley.
>
>T


A difference that continues to amaze this power pilot, who went on
cross countries of several hundred miles before being signed off to
take the Private Pilot checkride. (Glider only folks: the cross
country flights are a required part of pilot experience to get the
airplane single ending land rating.)


Having added a glider rating, I find soaring to be great fun, but it
appears to be a lot more difficult to find a glider to fly than it is a
powered aircraft, without owning a glider or signing up for a fairly
expensive club membership.

I think this is part of the attrition problem of soaring. People who
get the rating find that there remain many restrictions on what they can
do, and what aircraft they have available to them.

Alan

[Darryl Ramm]

On Apr 14, 12:10*am, (Alan) wrote:
> In article > T > writes:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Apr 13, 7:37=A0pm, Fred Blair > wrote:
> >> What are the minimum experience levels required at your club before a
> >> member is allowed to get out of gliding distance back to the home
> >> gliderport, i.e. go cross country?
>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Fred
> >> Houston, TX
>
> >Defining x-c as "outside of gliding distance" back to the club airport
> >or "more than one thermal away".
> >We ask our students to stay close, we make sure they have good
> >thermaling techniques before we encourage them to go farther. Our
> >mandate is that they don't leave the valley, which keeps them 7 to 10
> >miles around the airport.
> >We have 2 dry lakes within 5 miles, this encourages them to "travel"
> >keeping those lakes within glide, wet/dry lake permitting. We will
> >aero retrieve from those lakes for the same charge as a tow from the
> >home airport.
>
> >Students don't leave the valley, but they can get away because of the
> >dry lakes as a safety net. Around here the only place to safely land
> >is the club airport or the dry lakes. After their check ride, we work
> >on going to the next valley.
>
> >T
>
> * A difference that continues to amaze this power pilot, who went on
> cross countries of several hundred miles before being signed off to
> take the Private Pilot checkride. *(Glider only folks: the cross
> country flights are a required part of pilot experience to get the
> airplane single ending land rating.)
>
> * Having added a glider rating, I find soaring to be great fun, but it
> appears to be a lot more difficult to find a glider to fly than it is a
> powered aircraft, without owning a glider or signing up for a fairly
> expensive club membership.
>
> * I think this is part of the attrition problem of soaring. *People who
> get the rating find that there remain many restrictions on what they can
> do, and what aircraft they have available to them.
>
> * * * * Alan

I don't think maybe as directly comparable as you are stating, given
the basic level of proficiency in soaring needed start flying XC. In
power land you are trained for XC flying as a part of your private
ticket (I did mine when I was 17). But with glider certificates there
is not necessarily much useful attention given to actually flying
cross country. Lots of that actual training both in theory and
practice happens by the goodwill of the instructor, club or other
mentors and much often you have your ticket. And it takes some time to
build up that soaring ability, flying laps around the local airport,
flying larger triangles etc. are good starts.

But I'll totally agree that there are just too many places where it is
very hard to get good XC instruction/mentoring/rental XC ships etc.
While it is sad to see some places where people are ground though a
program and get a ticket then dropped becuase there are no XC ships or
mentoring programs for them. And its completely not surprising of
those people get their tickets and are never heard from again. On the
other hand there are clubs and commercial FBOs that do good XC
training and mentoring and have well equipped XC ships available to
members/students (Williams Soaring, BASA/Hollister, and Soaring NV are
operations with a good focus on XC that I've had personal experience
with in Region 11 for example).

And my favorite answer to when should pilots start flying XC is from
day one. Sit them in a Duo or DG-1000S and take them XC. Give them a
taste of what XC flying is like. Have them help do whatever they can
if its just to see if they know where they are. Get them hooked.
Repeat as frequently as possible during training. Duo Discuss class
two seaters are just fantastic for this -- a XC ride in a Duo got me
more than a little hooked.


Darryl

[[email protected]]

On Apr 13, 10:37*pm, Fred Blair > wrote:
> What are the minimum experience levels required at your club before a
> member is allowed to get out of gliding distance back to the home
> gliderport, i.e. go cross country?
>
> Thanks,
> Fred
> Houston, TX

Bronze badge, Silver duration, plus Silver Climb

Bronze badge entails x-country training, (knowlege and demonstration
of ability)

5 hour flight and 3280' climb shows the ability to thermal......most
likely will be succesful in x-country attempt

We encourage first x-country to be silver distance attempt

Cookie

[JC]

At my club the first requisite is a minimum of 20 hours local flying.
Then we take them out in a motorglider or power plane to pick fields
and practice several simulated outlandings without actually landing
but getting low enough to see if the field was as good as it looked
from above. This is extremely helpful!!. If it´s with a power plane we
leave some throttle on to simulate glider performance.
While they are students we try to give them plenty of thermal time and
maybe fly a few ´´mini tasks´´ . As new pilots, we strongly encourage
them to fly a little 30 km triangle around the airfield.
By this time the aspiring XC pilots should have participated in at
least a few retrieves so they are familiar with that aspect of the
sport too.
Every year we have an introductory class for the new XC pilots where
we go over all the basics and we put a lot of emphasis on preparation,
attitude and safety. During the winter months we usually have some
more advanced classes on tactics, meteorology, etc. but this first
class is the most important.
If the pilot has the hours and necessary flying skills, has done the
simulated outlandings and taken the intro class, he/she is ready to
go. Most pilots go for a 100 km first task.
My club has three PW5´s and everybody starts flying XC with these.
With 40 hours and at least 5 off field landings in the PW5 pilots can
move up to a Jantar.

Regards,

Juan Carlos

[Andy[_1_]]

On Apr 14, 6:26*am, JC > wrote:
>With 40 hours and at least 5 off field landings in the PW5 pilots can
>move up to a Jantar.

That's an interesting rule. It seems to imply that pilots who are not
good at XC flying are more likely to transition to the Jantar than
those who never land out on a long flight or only select airports if
they must land. The rule would be satisfied by 37.5 local flying
hours and 5 hopeless cross country attempts each lasting 0.5 hours

Wouldn't simulated off airport landings in the Jantar be a more useful
requirement?

Andy

[mattm[_2_]]

On Apr 14, 9:26*am, JC > wrote:
> At my club the first requisite is a minimum of 20 hours local flying.
> Then we take them out in a motorglider or power plane to pick fields
> and practice several simulated outlandings without actually landing
> but getting low enough to see if the field was as good as it looked
> from above. This is extremely helpful!!. If it´s with a power plane we
> leave some throttle on to simulate glider performance.
> While they are students we try to give them plenty of thermal time and
> maybe fly a few ´´mini tasks´´ . As new pilots, we strongly encourage
> them to fly a little 30 km triangle around the airfield.
> By this time the aspiring XC pilots should have participated in at
> least a few retrieves so they are familiar with that aspect of the
> sport too.
> Every year we have an introductory class for the new XC pilots where
> we go over all the basics and we put a lot of emphasis on preparation,
> attitude and safety. During the winter months we usually have some
> more advanced classes on tactics, meteorology, etc. but this first
> class is the most important.
> If the pilot has the hours and necessary flying skills, has done the
> simulated outlandings and taken the intro class, he/she is ready to
> go. Most pilots go for a 100 km first task.
> My club has three PW5´s and everybody starts flying XC with these.
> With 40 hours and at least 5 off field landings in the PW5 pilots can
> move up to a Jantar.
>
> Regards,
>
> Juan Carlos

Our club requires the Bronze Badge for cross country. We're fortunate
to have a lot of good fields around the airport and a good grass
airport
about 10 miles away, which makes a good first step for aspiring
cross country pilots. We include a little navigation training in the
private pilot curriculum, but with only an L13 (currently grounded
of course) and now a G103, dual cross country flying is not done.

We've had several pilots move up from initial flight through cross
country flying with us. However, the biggest problem our students
have
is the lack of time to master basic flying. I'm really amazed that
anyone can learn to fly well with only one lesson every week or two,
which is unfortunately what most of our students wind up doing.

-- Matt

[JC]

On Apr 14, 11:16*am, Andy > wrote:
> On Apr 14, 6:26*am, JC > wrote:
>
> >With 40 hours and at least 5 off field landings in the PW5 pilots can
> >move up to a Jantar.
>
> That's an interesting rule. It seems to imply that pilots who are not
> good at XC flying are more likely to transition to the Jantar than
> those who never land out on a long flight or only select airports if
> they must land. *The rule would be satisfied *by 37.5 local flying
> hours and 5 hopeless cross country attempts each lasting 0.5 hours
>
> Wouldn't simulated off airport landings in the Jantar be a more useful
> requirement?
>
> Andy


The rule is a guideline set in a context of common sense. Someone like
you describe would never be allowed to transition and would most
likely be required to do some dual instruction before trying another
XC. Outlandings have to be while on a task and not just a glide to
the neighbor´s field.
A new XC pilot lands out quite often so most have their 5 landings by
the end of their first season.
I should have added that at least 10 local flights and precision
landings are required before anyone can take one of the Jantars cross
country for the first time.

Juan Carlos

[Tony[_5_]]

> That's an interesting rule. It seems to imply that pilots who are not
> good at XC flying are more likely to transition to the Jantar than
> those who never land out on a long flight or only select airports if
> they must land. *The rule would be satisfied *by 37.5 local flying
> hours and 5 hopeless cross country attempts each lasting 0.5 hours
>
> Wouldn't simulated off airport landings in the Jantar be a more useful
> requirement?
>
> Andy

I understand where you're coming from but if off field landings
automatically imply that a pilot is not very good at flying XC then
I'm REALLY bad...

[Frank Whiteley]

On Apr 13, 10:26*pm, T > wrote:
> On Apr 13, 7:37*pm, Fred Blair > wrote:
>
> > What are the minimum experience levels required at your club before a
> > member is allowed to get out of gliding distance back to the home
> > gliderport, i.e. go cross country?
>
> > Thanks,
> > Fred
> > Houston, TX
>
> Defining x-c as "outside of gliding distance" back to the club airport
> or "more than one thermal away".
> We ask our students to stay close, we make sure they have good
> thermaling techniques before we encourage them to go farther. Our
> mandate is that they don't leave the valley, which keeps them 7 to 10
> miles around the airport.
> We have 2 dry lakes within 5 miles, this encourages them to "travel"
> keeping those lakes within glide, wet/dry lake permitting. We will
> aero retrieve from those lakes for the same charge as a tow from the
> home airport.
>
> Students don't leave the valley, but they can get away because of the
> dry lakes as a safety net. Around here the only place to safely land
> is the club airport or the dry lakes. After their check ride, we work
> on going to the next valley.
>
> T

Bronze is good.

One of our students (a few years ago), with CFI-G approval and crew,
flew a 100k Kolstad Century flight which helped get her a Kolstad
College Scholarship. (She took the check ride three days later).

This year the Kolstad Scholarship is $5000. 14-20 years old to
qualify. Deadline September 30th.

More at http://www.ssa.org/myhome.asp?mbr=7503688335&show=blog&id=2390

Suggested Schedule for Preparation of the Application:

JUNE

Collect REFERENCES, names and addresses of THREE who have
known the applicant for a reasonably long time.
Gather LETTERS OF RECOMMENDATION from soaring acquaintances
(THREE is good).

JULY/AUGUST

STATEMENT by applicant to include:

INVOLVEMENT in SOARING CLUB, SCHOOL, COMMUNITY
Present PLANS for further EDUCATION and eventual VOCATION
SOARING ACHIEVEMENTS
SAILPLANES FLOWN, AWARDS WON, SSA BADGES, FAI, FAA LICENSES

SEPTEMBER

REVIEW and SUBMIT YOUR APPLICATION

Get those fledglings flying.