SSA Sailplane Handicaps

[Mike the Strike]

We have had some interesting discussions over sailplane handicaps for
our upcoming Arizona contest season and we are unable to reconcile the
difference between the SSA handicaps and those used in the rest of the
world. There appear to be no clear descriptions anywhere on how the
SSA ones are calculated and there seem a few odd inconsistencies. We
have rejected the idea that the laws of physics are different on this
side of the pond.

So far, no-one seems to be able to find out how the SSA arrives at
their handicaps - they apparently just appear out of thin air. It
would be nice if there were some transparency in their calculations so
we can figure out why they are different.

I suggested that we just adopt the European handicaps - the Germans
have especially done a great job and at least we know how they derive
them.

Comments from any of the SSA contest gurus?

Mike

[Tony[_5_]]

On Apr 14, 11:54*am, Mike the Strike > wrote:
> We have had some interesting discussions over sailplane handicaps for
> our upcoming Arizona contest season and we are unable to reconcile the
> difference between the SSA handicaps and those used in the rest of the
> world. *There appear to be no clear descriptions anywhere on how the
> SSA ones are calculated and there seem a few odd inconsistencies. *We
> have rejected the idea that the laws of physics are different on this
> side of the pond.
>
> So far, no-one seems to be able to find out how the SSA arrives at
> their handicaps - they apparently just appear out of thin air. *It
> would be nice if there were some transparency in their calculations so
> we can figure out why they are different.
>
> I suggested that we just adopt the European handicaps - the Germans
> have especially done a great job and at least we know how they derive
> them.
>
> Comments from any of the SSA contest gurus?
>
> Mike

you might try getting ahold of these guys for more insight:

http://www.ssa.org/members/governance/VolunteersDetail.asp?group=41

[Fred Blair[_2_]]

On Apr 14, 11:54*am, Mike the Strike > wrote:
> We have had some interesting discussions over sailplane handicaps for
> our upcoming Arizona contest season and we are unable to reconcile the
> difference between the SSA handicaps and those used in the rest of the
> world. *There appear to be no clear descriptions anywhere on how the
> SSA ones are calculated and there seem a few odd inconsistencies. *We
> have rejected the idea that the laws of physics are different on this
> side of the pond.
>
> So far, no-one seems to be able to find out how the SSA arrives at
> their handicaps - they apparently just appear out of thin air. *It
> would be nice if there were some transparency in their calculations so
> we can figure out why they are different.
>
> I suggested that we just adopt the European handicaps - the Germans
> have especially done a great job and at least we know how they derive
> them.
>
> Comments from any of the SSA contest gurus?
>
> Mike

The SSA handicaps are calculated by a man for SSA that has been a part
of US soaring for many, many years. They are used in all US, SSA
sanctioned contests, and are built into the scoring program Winscore.
Fred

[RW[_2_]]

Mike,
I'm not a contest guru.
Many pilots in US,including me, think our handicap system is good.
There are almost the same like IGC's, except the weights.
We have this small imaginary guy with small parachute,and little
battery plus new,empty ship in equation.
If a little fellow can not reach ruder pedals, we give him extra few
% handicap.
IGC has max gross, less water in the wings weight(tail water OK).
And many EU countries are using same handicaps for handicapped
contests(with water).
I never heard of 5 ships competing in EU country nationals .If they
have so few ships, they combine classes.We have 5-7 gliders(sometimes
with the filler) competing at nationals all the time.
We could combine and handicap 18 with open, we could combine with
handicaps 15m and standard and same for 1-26 and PW-5's.
We should do it, if less than 18 ships per class show up, in the last
moment, by planning those classes together.
Instead we combine strongest class in the world(club) with all the
gliders .
The sad part is, we name the winner (flying newest 18m glider) of our
combined club with the all gliders, US national champion of club class
on the IGC forum.
Ryszard

On Apr 14, 12:54*pm, Mike the Strike > wrote:
> We have had some interesting discussions over sailplane handicaps for
> our upcoming Arizona contest season and we are unable to reconcile the
> difference between the SSA handicaps and those used in the rest of the
> world. *There appear to be no clear descriptions anywhere on how the
> SSA ones are calculated and there seem a few odd inconsistencies. *We
> have rejected the idea that the laws of physics are different on this
> side of the pond.
>
> So far, no-one seems to be able to find out how the SSA arrives at
> their handicaps - they apparently just appear out of thin air. *It
> would be nice if there were some transparency in their calculations so
> we can figure out why they are different.
>
> I suggested that we just adopt the European handicaps - the Germans
> have especially done a great job and at least we know how they derive
> them.
>
> Comments from any of the SSA contest gurus?
>
> Mike

[Mike the Strike]

On Apr 14, 9:15*pm, RW > wrote:
> Mike,
> I'm not a contest guru.
> Many pilots in US,including me, think our handicap system is good.
> There are almost the same like IGC's, * * except the weights.
> We have this small imaginary guy with small parachute,and little
> battery plus new,empty ship in equation.
> If a little fellow can not reach ruder pedals, we *give him extra few
> % handicap.
> IGC has max gross, less water in the wings weight(tail water OK).
> And many EU countries are using same handicaps for handicapped
> contests(with water).
> I never heard of 5 ships competing in EU country nationals .If they
> have so few ships, they combine classes.We have 5-7 gliders(sometimes
> with the filler) competing at nationals *all the time.
> We could combine and handicap 18 with open, we could combine with
> handicaps 15m and standard and same for 1-26 and PW-5's.
> We should do it, if *less than 18 ships per class show up, in the last
> moment, by planning those classes together.
> Instead we combine strongest class in the world(club) with all the
> gliders .
> The sad part is, we name the winner (flying newest 18m glider) of our
> combined club with the all gliders, US national champion of club class
> on the IGC forum.
> Ryszard
>
> On Apr 14, 12:54*pm, Mike the Strike > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > We have had some interesting discussions over sailplane handicaps for
> > our upcoming Arizona contest season and we are unable to reconcile the
> > difference between the SSA handicaps and those used in the rest of the
> > world. *There appear to be no clear descriptions anywhere on how the
> > SSA ones are calculated and there seem a few odd inconsistencies. *We
> > have rejected the idea that the laws of physics are different on this
> > side of the pond.
>
> > So far, no-one seems to be able to find out how the SSA arrives at
> > their handicaps - they apparently just appear out of thin air. *It
> > would be nice if there were some transparency in their calculations so
> > we can figure out why they are different.
>
> > I suggested that we just adopt the European handicaps - the Germans
> > have especially done a great job and at least we know how they derive
> > them.
>
> > Comments from any of the SSA contest gurus?
>
> > Mike

I wasn't saying that they were good or bad - just that there seemed to
be some problems or inconsistencies in how they were calculated and a
few of us would like to know the methodology used.

Mike

[Tom[_13_]]

On Apr 14, 11:43*pm, Mike the Strike > wrote:
> On Apr 14, 9:15*pm, RW > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Mike,
> > I'm not a contest guru.
> > Many pilots in US,including me, think our handicap system is good.
> > There are almost the same like IGC's, * * except the weights.
> > We have this small imaginary guy with small parachute,and little
> > battery plus new,empty ship in equation.
> > If a little fellow can not reach ruder pedals, we *give him extra few
> > % handicap.
> > IGC has max gross, less water in the wings weight(tail water OK).
> > And many EU countries are using same handicaps for handicapped
> > contests(with water).
> > I never heard of 5 ships competing in EU country nationals .If they
> > have so few ships, they combine classes.We have 5-7 gliders(sometimes
> > with the filler) competing at nationals *all the time.
> > We could combine and handicap 18 with open, we could combine with
> > handicaps 15m and standard and same for 1-26 and PW-5's.
> > We should do it, if *less than 18 ships per class show up, in the last
> > moment, by planning those classes together.
> > Instead we combine strongest class in the world(club) with all the
> > gliders .
> > The sad part is, we name the winner (flying newest 18m glider) of our
> > combined club with the all gliders, US national champion of club class
> > on the IGC forum.
> > Ryszard
>
> > On Apr 14, 12:54*pm, Mike the Strike > wrote:
>
> > > We have had some interesting discussions over sailplane handicaps for
> > > our upcoming Arizona contest season and we are unable to reconcile the
> > > difference between the SSA handicaps and those used in the rest of the
> > > world. *There appear to be no clear descriptions anywhere on how the
> > > SSA ones are calculated and there seem a few odd inconsistencies. *We
> > > have rejected the idea that the laws of physics are different on this
> > > side of the pond.
>
> > > So far, no-one seems to be able to find out how the SSA arrives at
> > > their handicaps - they apparently just appear out of thin air. *It
> > > would be nice if there were some transparency in their calculations so
> > > we can figure out why they are different.
>
> > > I suggested that we just adopt the European handicaps - the Germans
> > > have especially done a great job and at least we know how they derive
> > > them.
>
> > > Comments from any of the SSA contest gurus?
>
> > > Mike
>
> I wasn't saying that they were good or bad - just that there seemed to
> be some problems or inconsistencies in how they were calculated and a
> few of us would like to know the methodology used.
>
> Mike- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Its simple Mike. Just go to the SSA website and you will find the 4
person committee who overlooks the handicaps.
Carl Herold did the ground breaking work on this many years ago (maybe
like over 40 years ago). Carl worked many hours and has taken alot of
hearsay on these over the years, but at least his foundation is pretty
good.
Maybe they aren't perfect, but after this year Seniors, I surely
wouldn't be one to complain. I do know that every year they overlook
all the handicaps and do try to be equal and fair to all.
Just send Dave an email or call him. He's a great guy and I have know
him for many years. He is always willing to listen for input or ideas.
Its just up to you to contact him. If you can't find his email or
number, just send me an email and I'll get them for you. No problem.

Best regards, #711.

[Steve Freeman]

Once someone finds the formula etc it would be nice if they would post
what the difference is between the US and Europe. Don't really see any
reason why this should not be public information.