Inadvertant PTT - Where do you put your hand?

[ContestID67[_2_]]

I saw this item in another thread and found it interesting.

> Do you actually tow with your hand on the release? What happens at
> 100 feet when you hit a good bump and accidentally release?

I have had exactly one PTT (premature termination of tow) at about 3
feet AGL when I had my hand on the release handle and hit a bump.
This was in a 1-34 and the release was very sensitive.

My other issue is getting to the release handle on my glass glider
where the handle is about at the limit of my fingertips. As I have a
CG hook I am concerned about ballooning on tow (happened to a friend
of mine and it didn't end well). So I worry that during a high-g
event I might not be able to reach the release handle.

What I now use is a LOOSE lanyard between the release and my wrist.
LOOSE so that I don't PTT during a bump. Attached to my wrist so that
no matter what I will be able to pull the release. BTW: I don't use
the lanyard for a normal tow release.

Finally - others keep their hand on the airbrake handle to prevent the
brakes opening on tow. Generally, you can have your hand on the
release *OR* the brakes but not both (unless you fly with your
knees). With my lanyard approach I can effectively have my hand on
both handles. You can see a picture of my simple lanyard at
http://aviation.derosaweb.net/lanyard.

My $0.02. Your thoughts?

Thanks, John DeRosa

[Mike[_28_]]

I had a PTT at 250' +/- after getting really slammed by a thermal
while I had a device similar to yours in my hand (rather than wrapped
around it). I didn't have enough slack in it and when I flinched, I
released. It was an interesting few seconds while I tried to figure
out what just happened but it was an uneventful 180 to landing. I've
since lengthened the lanyard and leave it lying across my thigh with
my wrist on top of it.

Mike

[ContestID67[_2_]]

On Apr 16, 3:11*pm, Mike > wrote:
> I had a PTT at 250' +/- after getting really slammed by a thermal
> while I had a device similar to yours in my hand (rather than wrapped
> around it). I didn't have enough slack in it and when I flinched, I
> released. It was an interesting few seconds while I tried to figure
> out what just happened but it was an uneventful 180 to landing. I've
> since lengthened the lanyard and leave it lying across my thigh with
> my wrist on top of it.
>
> Mike

Yea, I hear you. Slack is the key - not too much, not too little. I
had that happen in the club's 1-34R. Your plan is to reach for the
lanyard when you need it.

Here is my counter: I watched as a friend (CG hook like mine)
ballooned up and came back down onto the glider's nose. Not a pretty
sight and he was injured. He stated later that he was trying to reach
for the release but couldn't due to being thrown around. In your case
the positive and negative G's may well throw your arm one way and the
lanyard in the other. With milliseconds to react you will have no
chance to grab it.

So my approach is to attach the lanyard to me so that all I need to do
is 1) scream and 2) yank.

Again, my $0.02 and thanks for your comments.

[Steve Koerner]

As the OP points out, there are two separate objectives. One is to be
able to release quickly while the other is to not release
accidently.

Attaching the release cable to your hand has the potential to slightly
quicken the release action but in doing so, you are greatly
compromising the second goal. Since we're offering 2 cent advise
here, I'll advise against doing that. If you hit a big bump or
scratch your nose or open the vent or tighten your straps, bingo! your
headed down. This seems like a bad idea.

I would also point out that adding an extra link to the tow release is
essentially changing the design of your glider. Many pilots are not
qualified to make such a design change. A strap may seem like a
simple device, but there are an awful lot of ways for that added strap
to not work when it's needed. This is made worse by the fact that it
will be rarely tested.

I think the best bet is to simply position your hand within a couple
inches of the release. As you sit in the cockpit waiting for tow,
practice making the quick grab while you are mentally preparing
yourself in terms of the particular circumstances that will drive that
action. I don't beleive there is any reason to worry about grabbing
the tow release and the dive brake at the same time, the tow release
is always first.

GW

[Dan Marotta]

On Apr 16, 4:40*pm, Steve Koerner > wrote:
> As the OP points out, there are two separate objectives. *One is to be
> able to release quickly while the other is to not release
> accidently.
>
> Attaching the release cable to your hand has the potential to slightly
> quicken the release action but in doing so, you are greatly
> compromising the second goal. *Since we're offering 2 cent advise
> here, I'll advise against doing that. *If you hit a big bump or
> scratch your nose or open the vent or tighten your straps, bingo! your
> headed down. *This seems like a bad idea.
>
> I would also point out that adding an extra link to the tow release is
> essentially changing the design of your glider. *Many pilots are not
> qualified to make such a design change. *A strap may seem like a
> simple device, but there are an awful lot of ways for that added strap
> to not work when it's needed. *This is made worse by the fact that it
> will be rarely tested.
>
> I think the best bet is to simply position your hand within a couple
> inches of the release. * As you sit in the cockpit waiting for tow,
> practice making the quick grab while you are mentally preparing
> yourself in terms of the particular circumstances that will drive that
> action. * I don't beleive there is any reason to worry about grabbing
> the tow release and the dive brake at the same time, the tow release
> is always first.
>
> GW

Well, I think it's a great idea! My arms are long enough and the
release is just above the dive brake handle that I don't feel that I
need such a device. My problem is with the heel operated brakes. I
start the tow with my knees a lot closer than I'd like and, after
gaining safe (to me) height, I slide the pedals away. On downwind or
final (if an early release), I pull the pedals back up. It may sound
like a lot but it literally takes less than a second to accomplish.

Again - I like your idea of the wrist to release cord. I'd only
caution that you not tie it too tightly to you in case you need to get
out quickly.

[Ken Latam]

A lanyard works well. I have used them before. With my old L-Spatz 55 winch
launching was very brisk so I used a lanyard so that I could reach the
release. Mine was a single line with a loop slipped over the knob as in
the pic, but the free end was slipped up under the lap belt so as not to
entangle in anything.

Ken

[[email protected]]

On Apr 16, 2:35*pm, ContestID67 > wrote:
> I saw this item in another thread and found it interesting.
>
> > Do you actually tow with your hand on the release? *What happens at
> > 100 feet when you hit a good bump and accidentally release?
>
> I have had exactly one PTT (premature termination of tow) at about 3
> feet AGL when I had my hand on the release handle and hit a bump.
> This was in a 1-34 and the release was very sensitive.
>
> My other issue is getting to the release handle on my glass glider
> where the handle is about at the limit of my fingertips. *As I have a
> CG hook I am concerned about ballooning on tow (happened to a friend
> of mine and it didn't end well). *So I worry that during a high-g
> event I might not be able to reach the release handle.
>
> What I now use is a LOOSE lanyard between the release and my wrist.
> LOOSE so that I don't PTT during a bump. *Attached to my wrist so that
> no matter what I will be able to pull the release. *BTW: I don't use
> the lanyard for a normal tow release.
>
> Finally - others keep their hand on the airbrake handle to prevent the
> brakes opening on tow. *Generally, you can have your hand on the
> release *OR* the brakes but not both (unless you fly with your
> knees). *With my lanyard approach I can effectively have my hand on
> both handles. * *You can see a picture of my simple lanyard athttp://aviation.derosaweb.net/lanyard.
>
> My $0.02. *Your thoughts?
>
> Thanks, John DeRosa

I fly a 1-34 quite a bit....I know what you mean about the release
being "sensitive".....I think there is actually a spec for the min
pull pressure....or maybe its the min back pressure measured at the to
hook.....I remember that we were worried about this and installed a
new spring...

As for your glass glider......How about moving the seat forward and
moving the rudder pedals forward, so you can reach the release?

I never like the idea of adding home brew accessories...

Cookie

[ContestID67[_2_]]

On Apr 16, 5:40*pm, Steve Koerner > wrote:
> As the OP points out, there are two separate objectives. *One is to be
> able to release quickly while the other is to not release
> accidently.
>
> Attaching the release cable to your hand has the potential to slightly
> quicken the release action but in doing so, you are greatly
> compromising the second goal. *Since we're offering 2 cent advise
> her>
> GW

Thanks for your thoughts.

A PTT has the potential of...basically landing out. That comes with
all the attendent issues of dinging/breaking the glider but rarely
harming the pilot. I suppose this depends on a number of factors like
PTT height above the ground, the runway's over-run area, fences,
crops, etc, etc.

The other side of this coin is my fear (maybe unfounded) of the
dreaded "balloon". In that case I am almost guaranteed to be
physically the worse for wear after the event...and maybe a lot
worse. Because I witnessed one, I am hyper-sensitized to it.

This is all risk analysis. What is the likelihood of the event I am
protecting against (balloon)? Is it so remote that the concern is
unfounded and the "cure is worse than the disease"?

Thanks again for everyone's thoughts.

[Tony[_5_]]

The Cherokee's airbrakes are sprung shut and the handle lays flat on
the floor when they are closed. pull to operate. so my left hand is
usually resting on my left leg within sprung to reach for the tow
release which is under the left side of the panel. haven't had a
premature tow release yet.

[Nigel Pocock[_2_]]

>
>As for your glass glider......How about moving the seat forward and
>moving the rudder pedals forward, so you can reach the release?

Dosnt work for me. If i did that the stick would be jammed fully forward
by my crutch. As it is I have problems with some gliders getting full back
stick. Long body and short legs.

[[email protected]]

On Apr 17, 4:29*pm, Nigel Pocock > wrote:
> >As for your glass glider......How about moving the seat forward and
> >moving the rudder pedals forward, so you can reach the release?
>
> Dosnt work for me. If i did that the stick would be jammed fully forward
> by my crutch. As it is I have problems with some gliders getting full back
> stick. Long body and short legs.

So what do you do?

[Andy[_10_]]

On Apr 16, 5:59*pm, ContestID67 > wrote:
> On Apr 16, 5:40*pm, Steve Koerner > wrote:
>
> > As the OP points out, there are two separate objectives. *One is to be
> > able to release quickly while the other is to not release
> > accidently.
>
> > Attaching the release cable to your hand has the potential to slightly
> > quicken the release action but in doing so, you are greatly
> > compromising the second goal. *Since we're offering 2 cent advise
> > her>
> > GW
>
> Thanks for your thoughts.
>
> A PTT has the potential of...basically landing out. *That comes with
> all the attendent issues of dinging/breaking the glider but rarely
> harming the pilot. *I suppose this depends on a number of factors like
> PTT height above the ground, the runway's over-run area, fences,
> crops, etc, etc.
>
> The other side of this coin is my fear (maybe unfounded) of the
> dreaded "balloon". *In that case I am almost guaranteed to be
> physically the worse for wear after the event...and maybe a lot
> worse. *Because I witnessed one, I am hyper-sensitized to it.
>
> This is all risk analysis. *What is the likelihood of the event I am
> protecting against (balloon)? *Is it so remote that the concern is
> unfounded and the "cure is worse than the disease"?
>
> Thanks again for everyone's thoughts.

While I appreciate all the issues here I find myself with a different
view. I've been in the weeds twice with bad wing runners at high
desert airports and find that to be by far the higher risk.

My takeoff procedure is: 1) Flaps full negative to reduce the angle of
attack while the tailwheel is on the ground, 2) Hand on airbrake
handle at half open. Both 1&2 increase aileron effectiveness on my
ship. 3) Once I have aileron control, but well below flying speed,
close the divebrakes, move the flaps to tow position. 4) Ease the
stick forward to raise the tailwheel and move hand to near the
release, but not touching it. (I find the risk of accidental release
from turbulence to be greater than not being able to grab the
release). 5) Liftoff.

Procedure is slightly different for nosewheel/skid.

The point is that there is a distinct phase of flight where wing drop
and runway excursion is most likely and separate phase of flight where
ballooning is the main risk - they are in my experience always
separated by several seconds that allow me to do manage for both. I
suppose if you are doing a winch launch it might be different.

9B

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 4/17/2011 8:37 PM, Andy wrote:
> While I appreciate all the issues here I find myself with a
> different view. I've been in the weeds twice with bad wing runners
> at high desert airports and find that to be by far the higher risk.
>
> My takeoff procedure is: 1) Flaps full negative to reduce the angle
> of attack while the tailwheel is on the ground, 2) Hand on airbrake
> handle at half open. Both 1&2 increase aileron effectiveness on my
> ship. 3) Once I have aileron control, but well below flying speed,
> close the divebrakes, move the flaps to tow position. 4) Ease the
> stick forward to raise the tailwheel and move hand to near the
> release, but not touching it. (I find the risk of accidental release
> from turbulence to be greater than not being able to grab the
> release). 5) Liftoff.
>
> Procedure is slightly different for nosewheel/skid.
>
> The point is that there is a distinct phase of flight where wing
> drop and runway excursion is most likely and separate phase of flight
> where ballooning is the main risk - they are in my experience always
> separated by several seconds that allow me to do manage for both. I
> suppose if you are doing a winch launch it might be different.
>
> 9B

I used the same procedure on my ASW 20 C for many years. It worked well.
I further improved the situation by having a forward hook retrofitted.
That made the glider go significantly straighter at the beginning of the
launch than the CG hook that came with it originally.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what
you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

[BruceGreeff]

Eric has it right.
Different phases of flight and different launch methods = different
risks = different actions.

With a winch launch the prospect of a dropped wing is much smaller, and
the requirement to release immediately is imperative. Energy builds at a
significantly faster rate.

So the time on a winch launch that you would benefit from open airbrakes
is small.

With My Cirrus an aerotow would usually involve hand on airbrakes,
partially deployed until I have roll authority. Then close brakes and
move hand to lanyard for release. There are enough seconds between
aileron authority and flying speed that this is not a hurried scrabble.

On a winch launch the brakes are locked and the hand is on the release
lanyard right from the start. In the std Cirrus, even at 186cm I can't
reach the release while a winch is pushing me back into the seat, and
the time to aileron control is <2s - no time to drop a wing...

With the Kestrel there are flaps to complicate matters, I just leave
them in neutral for aerotow and +1 for winch. Still do the same airbrake
action - it significantly improves aileron control at low speed.

To see the effect for your self - try to balance on the main wheel in a
very light wind with the brakes closed, and open. No comparison...

I understand the reason this works is that the air flows around rather
than over the airbrake paddle - significantly increasing the free stream
velocity just outboard of the airbrake - which is where most gliders
have their ailerons starting.


--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771 & Std Cirrus #57

[BruceGreeff]

Eric has it right.
Different phases of flight and different launch methods = different
risks = different actions.

With a winch launch the prospect of a dropped wing is much smaller, and
the requirement to release immediately is imperative. Energy builds at a
significantly faster rate.

So the time on a winch launch that you would benefit from open airbrakes
is small.

With My Cirrus an aerotow would usually involve hand on airbrakes,
partially deployed until I have roll authority. Then close brakes and
move hand to lanyard for release. There are enough seconds between
aileron authority and flying speed that this is not a hurried scrabble.

On a winch launch the brakes are locked and the hand is on the release
lanyard right from the start. In the std Cirrus, even at 186cm I can't
reach the release while a winch is pushing me back into the seat, and
the time to aileron control is <2s - no time to drop a wing...

With the Kestrel there are flaps to complicate matters, I just leave
them in neutral for aerotow and +1 for winch. Still do the same airbrake
action - it significantly improves aileron control at low speed.

To see the effect for your self - try to balance on the main wheel in a
very light wind with the brakes closed, and open. No comparison...

I understand the reason this works is that the air flows around rather
than over the airbrake paddle - significantly increasing the free stream
velocity just outboard of the airbrake - which is where most gliders
have their ailerons starting.


--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771 & Std Cirrus #57

[Andy[_10_]]

On Apr 18, 1:22*pm, BruceGreeff > wrote:
> Eric has it right.
> Different phases of flight and different launch methods = different
> risks = different actions.
>
> With a winch launch the prospect of a dropped wing is much smaller, and
> the requirement to release immediately is imperative. Energy builds at a
> significantly faster rate.
>
> So the time on a winch launch that you would benefit from open airbrakes
> is small.
>
> With My Cirrus an aerotow would usually involve hand on airbrakes,
> partially deployed until I have roll authority. Then close brakes and
> move hand to lanyard for release. There are enough seconds between
> aileron authority and flying speed that this is not a hurried scrabble.
>
> On a winch launch the brakes are locked and the hand is on the release
> lanyard right from the start. In the std Cirrus, even at 186cm I can't
> reach the release while a winch is pushing me back into the seat, and
> the time to aileron control is <2s - no time to drop a wing...
>
> With the Kestrel there are flaps to complicate matters, I just leave
> them in neutral for aerotow and +1 for winch. Still do the same airbrake
> action - it significantly improves aileron control at low speed.
>
> To see the effect for your self - try to balance on the main wheel in a
> very light wind with the brakes closed, and open. No comparison...
>
> I understand the reason this works is that the air flows around rather
> than over the airbrake paddle - significantly increasing the free stream
> velocity just outboard of the airbrake - which is where most gliders
> have their ailerons starting.
>
> --
> Bruce Greeff
> T59D #1771 & Std Cirrus #57

One thing to add about wing drop.

On most gliders with a tailwheel or skid the "tail on the ground" AOA
is relatively high - otherwise you can't lift off. In addition, a
downward deflected aileron further increases the AOA. At the beginning
of the roll I have regularly experienced the beginning of a wing drop
and found that corrective aileron to pick the wing up actually makes
it drop faster because you stall the dropping wing at the tip.

Recommended technique: If you don't get a response to your control
input to correct wing drop it often means that the airspeed is still
too low and you will likely get a better response by neutralizing the
ailerons for a second or so for the flow at the tip to re-establish,
then applying just a little corrective aileron to pick the wing up
without stalling. It takes some practice and a lot of discipline.

Works on rollout too.

9B

[Cliff Hilty[_2_]]

At 04:21 19 April 2011, Andy wrote:

>On most gliders with a tailwheel or skid the "tail on the ground" AOA
>is relatively high - otherwise you can't lift off. In addition, a
>downward deflected aileron further increases the AOA. At the beginning
>of the roll I have regularly experienced the beginning of a wing drop
>and found that corrective aileron to pick the wing up actually makes
>it drop faster because you stall the dropping wing at the tip.
>
>Recommended technique: If you don't get a response to your control
>input to correct wing drop it often means that the airspeed is still
>too low and you will likely get a better response by neutralizing the
>ailerons for a second or so for the flow at the tip to re-establish,
>then applying just a little corrective aileron to pick the wing up
>without stalling. It takes some practice and a lot of discipline.
>
>Works on rollout too.
>
>9B
>

Andy, wouldn't that have the oppisite effect on the other aileron as well
by decreasing the AOA and making it more effective thereby canceling out
making all things equal? I would venture that kicking in highwing rudder
would help more by speeding up the low wing and slowing down the high wing
with double the effectiveness. Just a thought :)


CH Ventus B

"If we are all "just dust in the wind", then I want to be at the top of a Huge Dust Devil!"

[Grider Pirate]

On Apr 19, 2:44*pm, Cliff Hilty
> wrote:
> At 04:21 19 April 2011, Andy wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On most gliders with a tailwheel or skid the "tail on the ground" AOA
> >is relatively high - otherwise you can't lift off. In addition, a
> >downward deflected aileron further increases the AOA. At the beginning
> >of the roll I have regularly experienced the beginning of a wing drop
> >and found that corrective aileron to pick the wing up actually makes
> >it drop faster because you stall the dropping wing at the tip.
>
> >Recommended technique: If you don't get a response to your control
> >input to correct wing drop it often means that the airspeed is still
> >too low and you will likely get a better response by neutralizing the
> >ailerons for a second or so for the flow at the tip to re-establish,
> >then applying just a little corrective aileron to pick the wing up
> >without stalling. *It takes some practice and a lot of discipline.
>
> >Works on rollout too.
>
> >9B
>
> Andy, wouldn't that have the oppisite effect on the other aileron as well
> by decreasing the AOA and making it more effective thereby canceling out
> making all things equal? I would venture that kicking in highwing rudder
> would help more by speeding up the low wing and slowing down the high wing
> with double the effectiveness. Just a thought :)
>
> CH Ventus B
>
> "If we are all "just dust in the wind", then I want to be at the top of a Huge Dust Devil!"- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I've read about using the rudder many times. I have experience in
very few gliders In my Speed Astir, I get some aileron authority (I
start with full neg flaps) long before the rudder will change my line
even a little. I get aileron first, elevator next, then rudder last.
My lack of rudder response may well be due to using a roller blade
wheel instead of the hard nylon furniture caster that came with it, or
the skid that was probably original equipment.

[Grider Pirate]

On Apr 19, 3:11*pm, Grider Pirate > wrote:
> On Apr 19, 2:44*pm, Cliff Hilty
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > At 04:21 19 April 2011, Andy wrote:
>
> > >On most gliders with a tailwheel or skid the "tail on the ground" AOA
> > >is relatively high - otherwise you can't lift off. In addition, a
> > >downward deflected aileron further increases the AOA. At the beginning
> > >of the roll I have regularly experienced the beginning of a wing drop
> > >and found that corrective aileron to pick the wing up actually makes
> > >it drop faster because you stall the dropping wing at the tip.
>
> > >Recommended technique: If you don't get a response to your control
> > >input to correct wing drop it often means that the airspeed is still
> > >too low and you will likely get a better response by neutralizing the
> > >ailerons for a second or so for the flow at the tip to re-establish,
> > >then applying just a little corrective aileron to pick the wing up
> > >without stalling. *It takes some practice and a lot of discipline.
>
> > >Works on rollout too.
>
> > >9B
>
> > Andy, wouldn't that have the oppisite effect on the other aileron as well
> > by decreasing the AOA and making it more effective thereby canceling out
> > making all things equal? I would venture that kicking in highwing rudder
> > would help more by speeding up the low wing and slowing down the high wing
> > with double the effectiveness. Just a thought :)
>
> > CH Ventus B
>
> > "If we are all "just dust in the wind", then I want to be at the top of a Huge Dust Devil!"- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I've read about using the rudder many times. *I have experience in
> very few gliders In my Speed Astir, I get some aileron authority (I
> start with full neg flaps) long before the rudder will change my line
> even a little. I get aileron first, elevator next, then rudder last.
> My lack of rudder response may well be due to using a roller blade
> wheel instead of the hard nylon furniture caster that came with it, or
> the skid that was probably original equipment.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

D'oh! As to the original question: For auto-tows (no winch experience)
I hold the release until I have solid aileron, then move to the flap
handle. For Aero tows, I keep my hand ON it on tow. I don't much
worry about an inadvertent release. There's not much subtle about a
Speed Astir, and the release is no exception. It takes a very firm
pull.

[SoaringMaps Team]

On Apr 19, 2:44*pm, Cliff Hilty
> wrote:
> At 04:21 19 April 2011, Andy wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On most gliders with a tailwheel or skid the "tail on the ground" AOA
> >is relatively high - otherwise you can't lift off. In addition, a
> >downward deflected aileron further increases the AOA. At the beginning
> >of the roll I have regularly experienced the beginning of a wing drop
> >and found that corrective aileron to pick the wing up actually makes
> >it drop faster because you stall the dropping wing at the tip.
>
> >Recommended technique: If you don't get a response to your control
> >input to correct wing drop it often means that the airspeed is still
> >too low and you will likely get a better response by neutralizing the
> >ailerons for a second or so for the flow at the tip to re-establish,
> >then applying just a little corrective aileron to pick the wing up
> >without stalling. *It takes some practice and a lot of discipline.
>
> >Works on rollout too.
>
> >9B
>
> Andy, wouldn't that have the oppisite effect on the other aileron as well
> by decreasing the AOA and making it more effective thereby canceling out
> making all things equal? I would venture that kicking in highwing rudder
> would help more by speeding up the low wing and slowing down the high wing
> with double the effectiveness. Just a thought :)
>
> CH Ventus B
>
> "If we are all "just dust in the wind", then I want to be at the top of a Huge Dust Devil!"

If I understand correctly Cliff you are asking if negative aileron on
the up wing would create enough negative lift to offset the tip stall
on the down wing. I think even with full negative aileron the
unstalled wing tip is producing positive lift (it's reduced, but not
negative) while the stalled wing tip is producing very little lift. To
convince yourself of this think about trying to recover from a spin
entry with opposite aileron only. It doesn't help much at all - you
are still going into the spin unless and until you get the inside wing
flying again.

I generally have aileron authority at a lower speed than I have rudder
authority - at least with a tailwheel like my -27 has. Andy once the
wingtip is on the ground forget it. Other gliders could be different.
Kicking the rudder is generally a decent way to pick up a wing if you
get an upset at above rudder minimum control speed.

It seems to work for me.

9B