Getting new members

[Steve Leonard[_2_]]

One of our members is a high school teacher. He worked things out
with the school to take a field trip to our gliderport for
introductory rides. And, as luck would have it, the day they came out
to fly was a spectacular soaring day! How often does that happen?
And they even got the story to one of the local stations. Caught a
glimpse of the footage while at the gym, and found the story this
evening. Enjoy!

http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/McPherson_Students_Flying_High_121362149.html

Thanks to John Peters for the students, Bob Holliday for the rides,
and I am going to guess Bob Hall for the towing?

Steve Leonard
Wichita Soaring Association

[[email protected]]

I tried to do this at the high school located on Edwards AFB (of all
places) with the physics class (of all things) that I taught/teach
using the flight school that the USAF Test Pilot School contracts with
and whom I have worked with for more than 25 years. School management
and their lawyers went completely apoplectic. The students, their
parent, and I had to sign all sorts of documents that we would never
do such a thing nor speak of flying ever again in class. I recall
that we were also forbidden to even think about it, at least in
school.

[Scott[_7_]]

On 5-6-2011 06:59, wrote:
>
> I tried to do this at the high school located on Edwards AFB (of all
> places) with the physics class (of all things) that I taught/teach
> using the flight school that the USAF Test Pilot School contracts with
> and whom I have worked with for more than 25 years. School management
> and their lawyers went completely apoplectic. The students, their
> parent, and I had to sign all sorts of documents that we would never
> do such a thing nor speak of flying ever again in class. I recall
> that we were also forbidden to even think about it, at least in
> school.
>
>

<Sarcasm>Well, I guess the Air Force doesn't need pilots anymore, so no
use getting people interested in flying.</Sarcasm> Tell me it ain't so!!

[kirk.stant]

On May 6, 3:42*am, Scott > wrote:
> On 5-6-2011 06:59, wrote:

> <Sarcasm>Well, I guess the Air Force doesn't need pilots anymore, so no
> use getting people interested in flying.</Sarcasm> *Tell me it ain't so!!

Scott, the Air Force doesn't run the schools on it's bases - they are
run by civilians (and lawyers - not sure what they are) working for
the DoD.

So if you want to say that educators and lawyers think the Air Force
doesn't need pilots anymore, your sarcasm will be a little closer to
reality.

Kirk

[Dan Marotta]

Same thing when I worked for Lockheed (before the mergers). I was not
allowed to fly for company business. Fear of the headlines - FLAMING
LOCKHEED EMPLOYEES RAIN DOWN ON YUPPIE DAY CARE CENTER. And the CEO at the
time was an SSA member...


"Scott" > wrote in message
.. .
> On 5-6-2011 06:59, wrote:
>>
>> I tried to do this at the high school located on Edwards AFB (of all
>> places) with the physics class (of all things) that I taught/teach
>> using the flight school that the USAF Test Pilot School contracts with
>> and whom I have worked with for more than 25 years. School management
>> and their lawyers went completely apoplectic. The students, their
>> parent, and I had to sign all sorts of documents that we would never
>> do such a thing nor speak of flying ever again in class. I recall
>> that we were also forbidden to even think about it, at least in
>> school.
>>
>>
>
> <Sarcasm>Well, I guess the Air Force doesn't need pilots anymore, so no
> use getting people interested in flying.</Sarcasm> Tell me it ain't so!!
>
>
>
>

[jsbrake[_2_]]

I've approached my school administration for permission to take my
students soaring. No Joy :( Liability issues.

Thing thing is, I teach a Special Needs class... and I run the local
chapter of Freedom's Wings Canada, a charity that gives FREE
inspiration flights in the disabled community and certain of the
special needs groups (such as my class). I could have gotten them
flown for just the cost of the bus transportation.

Whenever I'm with other Special Needs teachers, I tell them about the
programme... the parents may bring their kids on their own volition.

For those interested or curious about our programme, visit
www.freedomswings.ca

-John

[HoUdino]

Great job!

To the others...if at first you don't succeed, try try again.

There is always a way. Find fun in leaping the hurtles.

LT

[[email protected]]

The school on EDW is not D.O.D. but a CA public school wholly enclosed
on the base. It is a very high-achieving place with world-class
students and I would never consider teaching elsewhere. Almost
"Zero" kids at EDW are interested in aviation or flying. I attribute
it to the "if Dad/Mom do it, it can't be cool" syndrome. Very sad but
predictable.

The kids and I may have "worked it out" as did another "glider family"
that taught with me. Personal time is personal time.

In regards to the AF, the "incentive rides" they used to offer
workers, spouses et al went away a long time ago. Very unfortunate
and counterproductive. Even getting a real flightline tour (e.g.,
kids getting to sit in the pilot seats of B-1, F-15, C-17, etc) is
problematic/impossible. Also very unfortunate and
counterproductive.

Dan Marotta, I assume you are referring to Dan Tellep, the former CEO
of LockMart. A superb gentleman and pilot! I checked him out in glass
and ultimately in his 201 Libelle. He arranged for me (e.g., dirtbag
CFI/Towpilot/Fiberglassguy) to fly a 2-hole F-16 for over an hour with
a Lockheed test pilot. I got my "9-g" pin and certificate (450 kts,
roll inverted, go full A/B and pull like hell, I recall) Yep, a superb
human being. A/B is the mechanical equivalent of Crack. I will never
be the same.

[bildan]

On May 6, 7:18*pm, " > wrote:
> The school on EDW is not D.O.D. but a CA public school wholly enclosed
> on the base. *It is a very high-achieving place with world-class
> students and I would never consider teaching elsewhere. * *Almost
> "Zero" kids at EDW are interested in aviation or flying. *I attribute
> it to the "if Dad/Mom do it, it can't be cool" syndrome. *Very sad but
> predictable.
>
> The kids and I may have "worked it out" as did another "glider family"
> that taught with me. *Personal time is personal time.
>
> In regards to the AF, the "incentive rides" they used to offer
> workers, spouses et al went away a long time ago. *Very unfortunate
> and counterproductive. *Even getting a real flightline tour (e.g.,
> kids getting to sit in the pilot seats of B-1, F-15, C-17, etc) is
> problematic/impossible. *Also very unfortunate and
> counterproductive.
>
> Dan Marotta, I assume you are referring to Dan Tellep, the former CEO
> of LockMart. A superb gentleman and pilot! *I checked him out in glass
> and ultimately in his 201 Libelle. *He arranged for me (e.g., dirtbag
> CFI/Towpilot/Fiberglassguy) to fly a 2-hole F-16 for over an hour with
> a Lockheed test pilot. *I got my "9-g" pin and certificate *(450 kts,
> roll inverted, go full A/B and pull like hell, I recall) Yep, a superb
> human being. *A/B is the mechanical equivalent of Crack. *I will never
> be the same.

As a possible counterpoint, I had a CAP ASK-21 on display last week at
LockMarts Waterton, CO facility for their "bring your child to work"
day. This is the second year I have done this.

We set up on the lawn in front of the administration building and got
mobbed by parents and kids. (Didn't do the lawn much good but we got
invited back.) The line to look at the K-21 and let the kids sit in
the cockpit was hundreds of feet long. (Some of the "kids" in the
cockpit looked suspiciously like LockMart management.)

I think the CAP picked up a dozen or so new cadets and possibly some
of the parents. We weren't shy about giving information about local
clubs as well as CAP info.

Bill Daniels

[Frank Whiteley]

On May 6, 12:59*am, " > wrote:
> I tried to do this at the high school located on Edwards AFB (of all
> places) with the physics class (of all things) that I taught/teach
> using the flight school that the USAF Test Pilot School contracts with
> and whom I have worked with for more than 25 years. *School management
> and their lawyers went completely apoplectic. *The students, their
> parent, and I had to sign all sorts of documents that we would never
> do such a thing nor speak of flying ever again in class. *I recall
> that we were also forbidden to even think about it, at least in
> school.

Educational institutions have become risk averse, including at the
collegiate level. Twenty five years ago you could find white water
kayaking, glider clubs, and hang glider clubs on campus that owned
equipment. Nearly non-existent now and most clubs for that type of
activity must engage external organizations and keep involvement at
arm's length. Campus clubs are largely social welfare oriented
today.

We had a member's daughter seek to have her Junior ROTC unit take
orientation flights, but the school district balked.

Boy Scouts can participate under their aviation tour permit. Girl
Scouts no. Aviation Venture Crews can be so organized, but there are
still limits.

Some soaring clubs and a few commercial operators have found
interesting ways to engage youth. We can do better.

Currently, there are 441 SSA Youth Members in 134 flying chapters. 10
chapters have 10 or more youth members. 50 Chapters have no youth
members. 22 have one youth member. The average 45 member chapter has
3.25 youth members. To date we've received four Bultman applications
(4/30 deadline). I suspect many more of the 441 were eligible to
apply.

Frank Whiteley

[Jim Beckman[_2_]]

Here's something the Hawk Valley club did in New Jersey a couple of years
ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21PAYdokVxY

This was at a grade school, where the principal was a glider student at
our field. He and a few others did a *lot* of preparation work, and the
kids got about a half day of exposure to basic flight physics, history of
flight, building balsa model gliders, and finally getting an up close
encounter with our club 1-26. I don't know if we made any lasting
impressions, but we gave it a good effort. And it was fun for us, too.

Jim Beckman

[ray conlon]

On May 7, 7:52*am, Jim Beckman > wrote:
> Here's something the Hawk Valley club did in New Jersey a couple of years
> ago:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21PAYdokVxY
>
> This was at a grade school, where the principal was a glider student at
> our field. *He and a few others did a *lot* of preparation work, and the
> kids got about a half day of exposure to basic flight physics, history of
> flight, building balsa model gliders, and finally getting an up close
> encounter with our club 1-26. *I don't know if we made any lasting
> impressions, but we gave it a good effort. *And it was fun for us, too.
>
> Jim Beckman

Bottom line, soaring is an expensive hobby, attracting people is not
ever going to be easy, they don't have the disposable income to enter
the sport. 150,000 machines are not in most peoples budget.
It is a "one person" activity, wives, girlfriends,kids are left out
of the picture. It is not a family friendly activity.
Unless something can be done to get the cost of gliders,
equipment,tows,instruction etc.on the order of being able to play
golf,riding motorcycles,,jet skis etc. it will never grow. With the
reality of the US economic picture at present, it will continue to
soaring will continue to shrink.
Maybe a "national club" deal where people could go from one glider
port/club to another and rent a bird and get tows for say 125.00$ per
day as a package, might help.

[Dan Marotta]

Yes, it was Dan Tellep. I took him for a tour of the Lockheed Denver
Engineering Lab back in 1990 and he noticed my Gold Badge and mistook it for
a Lennie pin. I offered him the use of my ASW-19 but, alas, "the brief
cases" wouldn't let him have a day off to go to the glider port. He was
"just one of the guys" when talking with another pilot, told me he was a
member of SSA, and I was impressed to find his home address and phone number
in the membership list at the time.

Dan

> wrote in message
...
>
> The school on EDW is not D.O.D. but a CA public school wholly enclosed
> on the base. It is a very high-achieving place with world-class
> students and I would never consider teaching elsewhere. Almost
> "Zero" kids at EDW are interested in aviation or flying. I attribute
> it to the "if Dad/Mom do it, it can't be cool" syndrome. Very sad but
> predictable.
>
> The kids and I may have "worked it out" as did another "glider family"
> that taught with me. Personal time is personal time.
>
> In regards to the AF, the "incentive rides" they used to offer
> workers, spouses et al went away a long time ago. Very unfortunate
> and counterproductive. Even getting a real flightline tour (e.g.,
> kids getting to sit in the pilot seats of B-1, F-15, C-17, etc) is
> problematic/impossible. Also very unfortunate and
> counterproductive.
>
> Dan Marotta, I assume you are referring to Dan Tellep, the former CEO
> of LockMart. A superb gentleman and pilot! I checked him out in glass
> and ultimately in his 201 Libelle. He arranged for me (e.g., dirtbag
> CFI/Towpilot/Fiberglassguy) to fly a 2-hole F-16 for over an hour with
> a Lockheed test pilot. I got my "9-g" pin and certificate (450 kts,
> roll inverted, go full A/B and pull like hell, I recall) Yep, a superb
> human being. A/B is the mechanical equivalent of Crack. I will never
> be the same.
>

[Dan Marotta]

A month or so ago, I towed a young man up on his 14th birthday. He shags
ropes, sweeps floors, runs wings, etc., to help pay the freight. It
wouldn't surprise me if Rick (Sundance Aviation) isn't helping a bit, too.
Used to see a lot more of that...

"Frank Whiteley" > wrote in message
...
On May 6, 12:59 am, " > wrote:
> I tried to do this at the high school located on Edwards AFB (of all
> places) with the physics class (of all things) that I taught/teach
> using the flight school that the USAF Test Pilot School contracts with
> and whom I have worked with for more than 25 years. School management
> and their lawyers went completely apoplectic. The students, their
> parent, and I had to sign all sorts of documents that we would never
> do such a thing nor speak of flying ever again in class. I recall
> that we were also forbidden to even think about it, at least in
> school.

Educational institutions have become risk averse, including at the
collegiate level. Twenty five years ago you could find white water
kayaking, glider clubs, and hang glider clubs on campus that owned
equipment. Nearly non-existent now and most clubs for that type of
activity must engage external organizations and keep involvement at
arm's length. Campus clubs are largely social welfare oriented
today.

We had a member's daughter seek to have her Junior ROTC unit take
orientation flights, but the school district balked.

Boy Scouts can participate under their aviation tour permit. Girl
Scouts no. Aviation Venture Crews can be so organized, but there are
still limits.

Some soaring clubs and a few commercial operators have found
interesting ways to engage youth. We can do better.

Currently, there are 441 SSA Youth Members in 134 flying chapters. 10
chapters have 10 or more youth members. 50 Chapters have no youth
members. 22 have one youth member. The average 45 member chapter has
3.25 youth members. To date we've received four Bultman applications
(4/30 deadline). I suspect many more of the 441 were eligible to
apply.

Frank Whiteley

[Frank Whiteley]

On May 7, 7:55*am, ray conlon > wrote:
> On May 7, 7:52*am, Jim Beckman > wrote:
>
> > Here's something the Hawk Valley club did in New Jersey a couple of years
> > ago:
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21PAYdokVxY
>
> > This was at a grade school, where the principal was a glider student at
> > our field. *He and a few others did a *lot* of preparation work, and the
> > kids got about a half day of exposure to basic flight physics, history of
> > flight, building balsa model gliders, and finally getting an up close
> > encounter with our club 1-26. *I don't know if we made any lasting
> > impressions, but we gave it a good effort. *And it was fun for us, too.
>
> > Jim Beckman
>
> Bottom line, soaring is an expensive hobby, attracting people is not
> ever going to be easy, they don't have the disposable income to enter
> the sport. 150,000 machines are not in most peoples budget.
> *It is a "one person" activity, wives, girlfriends,kids are left out
> of the picture. It is not a family friendly activity.
> *Unless something can be done to get the cost of gliders,
> equipment,tows,instruction etc.on the order of being able to play
> golf,riding motorcycles,,jet skis etc. it will never grow. With the
> reality of the US economic picture at present, it will continue to
> soaring will continue to shrink.
> Maybe a "national club" deal where people could go from one glider
> port/club to another and rent a bird and get tows for say 125.00$ per
> day as a package, might help.

Splitting glider ownership 3-4 ways works very well to ease the burden
of ownership. Been there, done that, both in Europe and the US. In
my opinion, that should be the rule, rather than the exception.

Frank Whiteley

[ray conlon]

On May 7, 10:38*am, Frank Whiteley > wrote:
> On May 7, 7:55*am, ray conlon > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 7, 7:52*am, Jim Beckman > wrote:
>
> > > Here's something the Hawk Valley club did in New Jersey a couple of years
> > > ago:
>
> > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21PAYdokVxY
>
> > > This was at a grade school, where the principal was a glider student at
> > > our field. *He and a few others did a *lot* of preparation work, and the
> > > kids got about a half day of exposure to basic flight physics, history of
> > > flight, building balsa model gliders, and finally getting an up close
> > > encounter with our club 1-26. *I don't know if we made any lasting
> > > impressions, but we gave it a good effort. *And it was fun for us, too.
>
> > > Jim Beckman
>
> > Bottom line, soaring is an expensive hobby, attracting people is not
> > ever going to be easy, they don't have the disposable income to enter
> > the sport. 150,000 machines are not in most peoples budget.
> > *It is a "one person" activity, wives, girlfriends,kids are left out
> > of the picture. It is not a family friendly activity.
> > *Unless something can be done to get the cost of gliders,
> > equipment,tows,instruction etc.on the order of being able to play
> > golf,riding motorcycles,,jet skis etc. it will never grow. With the
> > reality of the US economic picture at present, it will continue to
> > soaring will continue to shrink.
> > Maybe a "national club" deal where people could go from one glider
> > port/club to another and rent a bird and get tows for say 125.00$ per
> > day as a package, might help.
>
> Splitting glider ownership 3-4 ways works very well to ease the burden
> of ownership. *Been there, done that, both in Europe and the US. *In
> my opinion, that should be the rule, rather than the exception.
>
> Frank Whiteley

Been there done that with power and glider, getting to where I can't
justify the cost of either.

[Jim Beckman[_2_]]

At 13:55 07 May 2011, ray conlon wrote:
>
>Bottom line, soaring is an expensive hobby, attracting people is not
>ever going to be easy, they don't have the disposable income to enter
>the sport. 150,000 machines are not in most peoples budget.

Agreed. But lots and lots of people can afford a $8K 1-26, and have one
helluva lotta fun with it. Not to mention competing in it at the national
level. And with a partnership, lots more gliders are within reach.

> It is a "one person" activity, wives, girlfriends,kids are left out
>of the picture. It is not a family friendly activity.

Well, sounds like you married the wrong woman.

Jim Beckman

[bildan]

On May 7, 7:55*am, ray conlon > wrote:
> On May 7, 7:52*am, Jim Beckman > wrote:
>
> > Here's something the Hawk Valley club did in New Jersey a couple of years
> > ago:
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21PAYdokVxY
>
> > This was at a grade school, where the principal was a glider student at
> > our field. *He and a few others did a *lot* of preparation work, and the
> > kids got about a half day of exposure to basic flight physics, history of
> > flight, building balsa model gliders, and finally getting an up close
> > encounter with our club 1-26. *I don't know if we made any lasting
> > impressions, but we gave it a good effort. *And it was fun for us, too.
>
> > Jim Beckman
>
> Bottom line, soaring is an expensive hobby, attracting people is not
> ever going to be easy, they don't have the disposable income to enter
> the sport. 150,000 machines are not in most peoples budget.
> *It is a "one person" activity, wives, girlfriends,kids are left out
> of the picture. It is not a family friendly activity.
> *Unless something can be done to get the cost of gliders,
> equipment,tows,instruction etc.on the order of being able to play
> golf,riding motorcycles,,jet skis etc. it will never grow. With the
> reality of the US economic picture at present, it will continue to
> soaring will continue to shrink.
> Maybe a "national club" deal where people could go from one glider
> port/club to another and rent a bird and get tows for say 125.00$ per
> day as a package, might help.

To the extent soaring is an expensive hobby, it's because we've
collectively chosen to operate expensively. The US norm is privately
owned gliders whose owners pay $50 or more for a tow. Any problem
which arises is solved by writing a check - no one wants to get their
hands dirty. It need not be so.

Gliders will always be expensive because they are essentially hand
made on very slow production lines. The only upside is well cared
for gliders last a very long time so the high initial costs can be
amortized over many years.

An opportunity to very significantly reduce costs, perhaps the best
one, is to adopt winch launch. More than anything else, this is why
soaring is less expensive in Europe. As a result of winch economics,
clubs fly fleets of very modern club owned gliders launched by winch.
Private glider ownership is far less common.

European clubs also expect their members to work on club equipment.
This "sweat equity" greatly reduces costs.

[ray conlon]

On May 7, 5:18*pm, Jim Beckman > wrote:
> At 13:55 07 May 2011, ray conlon wrote:
>
>
>
> >Bottom line, soaring is an expensive hobby, attracting people is not
> >ever going to be easy, they don't have the disposable income to enter
> >the sport. 150,000 machines are not in most peoples budget.
>
> Agreed. *But lots and lots of people can afford a $8K 1-26, and have one
> helluva lotta fun with it. *Not to mention competing in it at the national
> level. *And with a partnership, lots more gliders are within reach.
>
> > It is a "one person" activity, wives, girlfriends,kids are left out
> >of the picture. It is not a family friendly activity.
>
> Well, sounds like you married the wrong woman.
>
> Jim Beckman

Have not married for years, did it once long ago, NEVER again

[Alan[_6_]]

In article > bildan > writes:
>On May 7, 7:55=A0am, ray conlon > wrote:

>> Bottom line, soaring is an expensive hobby, attracting people is not
>> ever going to be easy, they don't have the disposable income to enter
>> the sport. 150,000 machines are not in most peoples budget.
>> =A0It is a "one person" activity, wives, girlfriends,kids are left out
>> of the picture. It is not a family friendly activity.
>> =A0Unless something can be done to get the cost of gliders,
>> equipment,tows,instruction etc.on the order of being able to play
>> golf,riding motorcycles,,jet skis etc. it will never grow. With the
>> reality of the US economic picture at present, it will continue to
>> soaring will continue to shrink.
>> Maybe a "national club" deal where people could go from one glider
>> port/club to another and rent a bird and get tows for say 125.00$ per
>> day as a package, might help.
>
>To the extent soaring is an expensive hobby, it's because we've
>collectively chosen to operate expensively. The US norm is privately
>owned gliders whose owners pay $50 or more for a tow. Any problem
>which arises is solved by writing a check - no one wants to get their
>hands dirty. It need not be so.


Some of this results from the lack of time for the participants.
Work responsibilities, home/family responsibilities, and the like,
don't leave huge amounts of time for personal hobbies like aviation.
One thing that time management classes suggest is using money to
"buy" time -- rather than spend more time working on things that
can be dealt with by spending money. (Probably why many pay the
gardener to mow the lawn.)




>Gliders will always be expensive because they are essentially hand
>made on very slow production lines. The only upside is well cared
>for gliders last a very long time so the high initial costs can be
>amortized over many years.
>
>An opportunity to very significantly reduce costs, perhaps the best
>one, is to adopt winch launch. More than anything else, this is why
>soaring is less expensive in Europe. As a result of winch economics,
>clubs fly fleets of very modern club owned gliders launched by winch.
>Private glider ownership is far less common.


You neglected one of the meaningful costs of winch launching ---
real estate. You need a long enough runway to lay out enough cable for
a useful height of launch, and that runway needs to not be at a busy
general aviation airport, unless you like Cessna's running into the
cable, and the resulting pictures in the evening news.

That said, winch launching does sound like fun. What are various
views on how long it takes to learn it and qualify for the signoff to
be able to do it in the U.S.? (Just in case a winch launch operation
ever does set up within practical single-engine power plane range of
here.)

Yes, that refers to the basic issue that in some places, the good
gliding locations are at distances that are impractical for a day trip
by car. Once the trip exceeds a day trip, it becomes impractical to
do frequently if there are any family responsibilities. (For safety,
one probably wants to fly more than a couple times per year...)
The golf course, and the power airport, are both a lot closer for
most of us.



>European clubs also expect their members to work on club equipment.
>This "sweat equity" greatly reduces costs.


Without an A&P mechanic supervising and signing off the work, the
options for the U.S. club members is more limited.


Alan

[Jim Beckman[_2_]]

At 03:55 08 May 2011, Alan wrote:
>
>One thing that time management classes suggest is using money to
>"buy" time -- rather than spend more time working on things that
>can be dealt with by spending money. (Probably why many pay the
>gardener to mow the lawn.)

Of course, once I pay somebody else to mow my lawn, I can no longer afford
to buy a tow at the glider field. My approach is to do my own yard work,
thus saving the expense of a gardner, *and* getting some exercise, thus
avoiding the expense of a gym membership. Then I take that money to the
glider field.

Soaring with a club is still an affordable way to go, at least it *can* be
if that's what the club wants to offer.

Jim Beckman

[Jim Beckman[_2_]]

At 03:55 08 May 2011, Alan wrote:
>
>One thing that time management classes suggest is using money to
>"buy" time -- rather than spend more time working on things that
>can be dealt with by spending money. (Probably why many pay the
>gardener to mow the lawn.)

Of course, once I pay somebody else to mow my lawn, I can no longer afford
to buy a tow at the glider field. My approach is to do my own yard work,
thus saving the expense of a gardner, *and* getting some exercise, thus
avoiding the expense of a gym membership. Then I take that money to the
glider field.

Soaring with a club is still an affordable way to go, at least it *can* be
if that's what the club wants to offer.

Jim Beckman

[bildan]

On May 7, 9:55*pm, (Alan) wrote:
Snip---
> * You neglected one of the meaningful costs of winch launching ---
> real estate. *You need a long enough runway to lay out enough cable for
> a useful height of launch, and that runway needs to not be at a busy
> general aviation airport, unless you like Cessna's running into the
> cable, and the resulting pictures in the evening news.

US winch operations use public airports very successfully - and
safely. That shifts the 'real estate' cost to the taxpayer. When it
costs $500 to fill the tanks, there are a lot fewer of those Cessna's
flying. Those that do fly like the early morning for the smooth air.
Once the thermals start popping, the Cessna's get tied down.
>
> * That said, winch launching does sound like fun. *What are various
> views on how long it takes to learn it and qualify for the signoff to
> be able to do it in the U.S.? *(Just in case a winch launch operation
> ever does set up within practical single-engine power plane range of
> here.)

I like to see a transition course of at least 30 launches. Not only
is there a lot to learn, much of it has to become instinctive before
you are safe.
>
> * Yes, that refers to the basic issue that in some places, the good
> gliding locations are at distances that are impractical for a day trip
> by car. *Once the trip exceeds a day trip, it becomes impractical to
> do frequently if there are any family responsibilities. *(For safety,
> one probably wants to fly more than a couple times per year...)
> The golf course, and the power airport, are both a lot closer for
> most of us.
>

Again, the typical US pilot will drive alone 100 miles in his SUV to a
glider operation without giving a thought to ride sharing. Camping
at the gliderport isn't considered either. There are ways to deal
with this.

> >European clubs also expect their members to work on club equipment.
> >This "sweat equity" greatly reduces costs.
>
> * Without an A&P mechanic supervising and signing off the work, the
> options for the U.S. club members is more limited.

A club member can do any work on a glider an AI will sign off.
Besides, if you look carefully at what maintenance an owner is legally
allowed to do on his own, it covers almost everything a glider is
likely to need in the way of routine maintenance. I can't believe I
once saw a glider owner paying an A&P to put air in the tires.

[kirk.stant]

Well, I think we need to take off our blinders and face reality.
Flying is no longer an exciting adventure; it's going through TSA
searches and being crammed into a tubular extrusion for hours without
food or entertainment. Or it's UAVs whacking bad guys, controlled
from an Air Base in Nevada.

There will always be a small group of people of all ages who will
gravitate to gliding, either because they can't afford power flying,
or like to try something different, or are attracted to the
competitive aspects.

But to expect people to rush to gliding because we can make it less
expensive? Won't happen. It's already about as inexpensive as flying
can get!

And forget homebuilding - the numbers will never be very big. The SSA
isn't the EAA, unfortunately (or perhaps, fortunately!).

The European model would appear to work better, judging by where all
the new gliders come from - more social aspects, bigger clubs with
better equipment (NO 2-33s!!!!), much greater emphasis on gliding as a
sport (XC, badges, OLC, racing, records) than as just twirlybirding on
a nice Saturday afternoon.

But even the euros are losing membership! So as much as I prefer their
approach to the typical US glider operation, they still have the same
problem - flying just isn't sexy any more.

So what is the answer? Quit worrying about it, go out and fly, try to
introduce someone to gliding who might actually be interested.

Kirk
66

[Morgan[_2_]]

For what it is worth, I spent all day yesterday at Fresno's Chandler
Executive Airport for an EAA Learn to Fly day. Brought my Duo Discus
and borrowed a tow plane from one of our club members. We gave away
14 intro flights and collected a few donations. Two families are
very, very likely to come out and join the club and get their kids
involved in soaring.

The glider was probably one of the bigger hits at the event and the
fact that it wasn't just a static display. On the Fresno news, the
glider apparently got the most time on air and two of the girls that
went for rides were interviewed.

Whether to call the even a success or not is a little hard to say.
From the club perspective, we didn't collect enough in donations to
pay for the fuel we burned. But 14 people got to taste a glider
flight and we did something that probably hasn't been done before in
that we brought glider operations to the heart of downtown Fresno.
Thermalling up over Hwy 99, the Zoo and right around downtown. Who
knows though many of these kids won't even be able to solo a glider
for many more years, but some club or soaring operation may benefit 20
years from now.

And a side benefit was that it was very soarable, so I typically only
took about 1000-1200ft tows and then thermalled up a little to show
people that these aren't just sled rides. We couldn't climb higher
than 2500 due to FAT Class C (I was Mode S equipped, but they denied
my request to climb into their shelf).

Things that I do think help and event like this. Go to a place that
hasn't seen glider ops, the novelty alone is going to draw attention.
Bring a beautiful glider out. Our club trains with 2-33's, we have
them and it's all we can afford, but realistically I think the Duo (or
any glass 2-place) has the appeal to ignite the spark. Now if we can
just retain them during training with the 2-33's.

The main thing was that it takes a lot of volunteer effort to support
an event like this. Tow Pilots, booth workers, donations of glider
time, etc...

Morgan
5H



On May 8, 9:45*am, "kirk.stant" > wrote:
> Well, I think we need to take off our blinders and face reality.
> Flying is no longer an exciting adventure; it's going through TSA
> searches and being crammed into a tubular extrusion for hours without
> food or entertainment. *Or it's UAVs whacking bad guys, controlled
> from an Air Base in Nevada.
>
> There will always be a small group of people of all ages who will
> gravitate to gliding, either because they can't afford power flying,
> or like to try something different, or are attracted to the
> competitive aspects.
>
> But to expect people to rush to gliding because we can make it less
> expensive? *Won't happen. It's already about as inexpensive as flying
> can get!
>
> And forget homebuilding - the numbers will never be very big. *The SSA
> isn't the EAA, unfortunately (or perhaps, fortunately!).
>
> The European model would appear to work better, judging by where all
> the new gliders come from - more social aspects, bigger clubs with
> better equipment (NO 2-33s!!!!), much greater emphasis on gliding as a
> sport (XC, badges, OLC, racing, records) than as just twirlybirding on
> a nice Saturday afternoon.
>
> But even the euros are losing membership! So as much as I prefer their
> approach to the typical US glider operation, they still have the same
> problem - flying just isn't sexy any more.
>
> So what is the answer? *Quit worrying about it, go out and fly, try to
> introduce someone to gliding who might actually be interested.
>
> Kirk
> 66

[bildan]

On May 8, 10:45*am, "kirk.stant" > wrote:
> Well, I think we need to take off our blinders and face reality.
> Flying is no longer an exciting adventure; it's going through TSA
> searches and being crammed into a tubular extrusion for hours without
> food or entertainment. *Or it's UAVs whacking bad guys, controlled
> from an Air Base in Nevada.
>
> There will always be a small group of people of all ages who will
> gravitate to gliding, either because they can't afford power flying,
> or like to try something different, or are attracted to the
> competitive aspects.
>
> But to expect people to rush to gliding because we can make it less
> expensive? *Won't happen. It's already about as inexpensive as flying
> can get!
>
> And forget homebuilding - the numbers will never be very big. *The SSA
> isn't the EAA, unfortunately (or perhaps, fortunately!).
>
> The European model would appear to work better, judging by where all
> the new gliders come from - more social aspects, bigger clubs with
> better equipment (NO 2-33s!!!!), much greater emphasis on gliding as a
> sport (XC, badges, OLC, racing, records) than as just twirlybirding on
> a nice Saturday afternoon.
>
> But even the euros are losing membership! So as much as I prefer their
> approach to the typical US glider operation, they still have the same
> problem - flying just isn't sexy any more.
>
> So what is the answer? *Quit worrying about it, go out and fly, try to
> introduce someone to gliding who might actually be interested.
>
> Kirk
> 66

Kirk, if they actually knew about us, I think there is a real
possibility of interesting 1 in a thousand (.1%) of the US
population. That's 300,000 new pilots. Should that happen, the
immediate problem would be we don't have the training gliders,
instructors or tow planes to handle that number. Nice problem to have
though.

[Frank Whiteley]

On May 8, 1:17*pm, Morgan > wrote:
> For what it is worth, I spent all day yesterday at Fresno's Chandler
> Executive Airport for an EAA Learn to Fly day. *Brought my Duo Discus
> and borrowed a tow plane from one of our club members. *We gave away
> 14 intro flights and collected a few donations. *Two families are
> very, very likely to come out and join the club and get their kids
> involved in soaring.
>
> The glider was probably one of the bigger hits at the event and the
> fact that it wasn't just a static display. *On the Fresno news, the
> glider apparently got the most time on air and two of the girls that
> went for rides were interviewed.
>
> Whether to call the even a success or not is a little hard to say.
> From the club perspective, we didn't collect enough in donations to
> pay for the fuel we burned. *But 14 people got to taste a glider
> flight and we did something that probably hasn't been done before in
> that we brought glider operations to the heart of downtown Fresno.
> Thermalling up over Hwy 99, the Zoo and right around downtown. *Who
> knows though many of these kids won't even be able to solo a glider
> for many more years, but some club or soaring operation may benefit 20
> years from now.
>
> And a side benefit was that it was very soarable, so I typically only
> took about 1000-1200ft tows and then thermalled up a little to show
> people that these aren't just sled rides. *We couldn't climb higher
> than 2500 due to FAT Class C (I was Mode S equipped, but they denied
> my request to climb into their shelf).
>
> Things that I do think help and event like this. *Go to a place that
> hasn't seen glider ops, the novelty alone is going to draw attention.
> Bring a beautiful glider out. *Our club trains with 2-33's, we have
> them and it's all we can afford, but realistically I think the Duo (or
> any glass 2-place) has the appeal to ignite the spark. *Now if we can
> just retain them during training with the 2-33's.
>
> The main thing was that it takes a lot of volunteer effort to support
> an event like this. *Tow Pilots, booth workers, donations of glider
> time, etc...
>
> Morgan
> 5H
>
Good on you Morgan and your group,

I just found out about events in my state with an online news blurb
yesterday. It didn't even mention the EAA chapter involved at my
local airport. Colorado events are scheduled for 5/21, so there may
be enough time to be involved.

Some soaring organizations may still find opportunities.
http://www.learntofly.org/findanevent.aspx

Frank Whiteley

[Morgan[_2_]]

Here are some pictures of the Saturday event.

https://picasaweb.google.com/morhallCCSC/EAALearnToFlyChandler#

It is definitely a different experience to be thermalling up over a
big city. Highway 99 was a literal highway of thermal activity. I
took one passenger about 10 miles out from the airport, all while
staying below 2500msl Class C (2200agl). Straight flying right up the
highway with no reason to turn. Averaged over 90 knots on the way
back and still had to pull spoilers to get down to the pattern.

It's fun to give back, but truthfully I am really looking forward to a
week of racing at our Avenal spring Contest this week.

Morgan



On May 8, 6:19*pm, Frank Whiteley > wrote:
> On May 8, 1:17*pm, Morgan > wrote:
>
>
>
> > For what it is worth, I spent all day yesterday at Fresno's Chandler
> > Executive Airport for an EAA Learn to Fly day. *Brought my Duo Discus
> > and borrowed a tow plane from one of our club members. *We gave away
> > 14 intro flights and collected a few donations. *Two families are
> > very, very likely to come out and join the club and get their kids
> > involved in soaring.
>
> > The glider was probably one of the bigger hits at the event and the
> > fact that it wasn't just a static display. *On the Fresno news, the
> > glider apparently got the most time on air and two of the girls that
> > went for rides were interviewed.
>
> > Whether to call the even a success or not is a little hard to say.
> > From the club perspective, we didn't collect enough in donations to
> > pay for the fuel we burned. *But 14 people got to taste a glider
> > flight and we did something that probably hasn't been done before in
> > that we brought glider operations to the heart of downtown Fresno.
> > Thermalling up over Hwy 99, the Zoo and right around downtown. *Who
> > knows though many of these kids won't even be able to solo a glider
> > for many more years, but some club or soaring operation may benefit 20
> > years from now.
>
> > And a side benefit was that it was very soarable, so I typically only
> > took about 1000-1200ft tows and then thermalled up a little to show
> > people that these aren't just sled rides. *We couldn't climb higher
> > than 2500 due to FAT Class C (I was Mode S equipped, but they denied
> > my request to climb into their shelf).
>
> > Things that I do think help and event like this. *Go to a place that
> > hasn't seen glider ops, the novelty alone is going to draw attention.
> > Bring a beautiful glider out. *Our club trains with 2-33's, we have
> > them and it's all we can afford, but realistically I think the Duo (or
> > any glass 2-place) has the appeal to ignite the spark. *Now if we can
> > just retain them during training with the 2-33's.
>
> > The main thing was that it takes a lot of volunteer effort to support
> > an event like this. *Tow Pilots, booth workers, donations of glider
> > time, etc...
>
> > Morgan
> > 5H
>
> Good on you Morgan and your group,
>
> I just found out about events in my state with an online news blurb
> yesterday. *It didn't even mention the EAA chapter involved at my
> local airport. *Colorado events are scheduled for 5/21, so there may
> be enough time to be involved.
>
> Some soaring organizations may still find opportunities.http://www.learntofly.org/findanevent.aspx
>
> Frank Whiteley

[GC[_2_]]

On 9/05/2011 02:45, kirk.stant wrote:
....
> There will always be a small group of people of all ages who will
> gravitate to gliding, either because they can't afford power flying,
> or like to try something different, or are attracted to the
> competitive aspects.
>
> But to expect people to rush to gliding because we can make it less
> expensive? Won't happen. It's already about as inexpensive as flying
> can get!
> ...
> But even the euros are losing membership! So as much as I prefer their
> approach to the typical US glider operation, they still have the same
> problem - flying just isn't sexy any more.
>
> So what is the answer? Quit worrying about it, go out and fly, try to
> introduce someone to gliding who might actually be interested.
>

I knew if this theme went on long enough somebody would say something
sensible and realistic.

Who knows, gliding may just be a 100-year novelty. In the years that
soaring was expanding, it wasn't because of national advertising
campaigns. Now it's declining, I doubt marketing will save it.

Who cares. If you enjoy it, do it while you still can. Your
smile-a-mile-wide enjoyment may well be the most enticing thing about
gliding.

GC

> Kirk
> 66
>

[Jim Beckman[_2_]]

At 19:17 08 May 2011, Morgan wrote:
>For what it is worth, I spent all day yesterday at Fresno's Chandler
>Executive Airport for an EAA Learn to Fly day. Brought my Duo Discus
>and borrowed a tow plane from one of our club members. We gave away
>14 intro flights and collected a few donations. Two families are
>very, very likely to come out and join the club and get their kids
>involved in soaring.

We've done PR things like that, but not at such an expensive level.
Having a glider on display at the County Fair draws a lot of interest, and
all the kids want to sit in the cockpit. Several folks were *really*
interested, wanted to know where the airport was, sure to show up there
for a ride and maybe a lesson. Nobody ever shows up. We sort of gave up
on that approach as a waste of time and effort.

Maybe you'll have better luck.

Jim Beckman

[Walt Connelly]

Gliding isn't SEXY? Are you kidding me? Take the wings and tail off these things and most of them look like a sperm. Okay, that's not sexy but how in the heck is this sport going to survive if not by marketing? I agree, go out and fly, enjoy yourself, yadda yadda yadda. But without a reasonable marketing strategy there may come a day when there are few if any places to go and enjoy soaring. Where I Fly we have people drive for four and five hours to get here. I'm lucky it's 25 minutes for me. There is a club operation in the panhandle, one about two hours north of here, one about an hour south and that's about it. (Florida). Clubs have to remain viable, to do so they must attract new members and keep their planes and tugs in good condition. Commercial operations must do the same, attract new students, teach them to fly, maintain a reasonable rental fleet and provide the necessary services.

Do we have to make it sexy to market it? I think not. We have to make it exciting, attractive, appealing. Okay, that's the same as sexy but you know where I'm going. Commercial operations need to invest in the future, spend a little on local TV and newspaper ads, market, market, market, sell, sell, sell.

I will admit that I have been frustrated trying to attract a friend or two of mine to the sport. A couple are pilots, I have taken them for a ride and made it as pleasant as I could. Somehow I have come to realize that if there is not a burning passion within you, nothing is going to make you soar. All we can do is continue to try to promote the sport on our own and hope that our tugs and glider ports will remain around long enough to either begin to grow or allow those of us who fly to die happily in our sleep after a tasty day in lift.

Walt

[David Neilson]

5 years ago Dumfries & District Gliding Club had less than 10 members and
was struggling to keep flying.
Thanks to the enthusiasm and dedication of the members we have grown our
club to 50 members last year.
Imagination and links with local groups like the Air Museum have helped
enormously, A glider at the museum open day generated over 100 inquiries
and 30+ people arrived to fly during our flying week a few weeks later.
A can do attitude and a desire to share the FUN of flying, a welcoming
smile and an accommodating clubhouse culture attracts and keeps members
from 4 years of age to 78 years of age (everyone of whom has flown at some
point).
We flew 30 Girl Guide leaders as part of their centenary celebrations
(adding two members)
The Local Air Cadet group is also involved with the club and will we hope
generate junior members over the next year.

Do not get the wrong idea we do have our problems and have to work hard to
keep the culture right and the members on board but we have committed to
providing the opportunity for any and all to soar over our beautiful south
west of Scotland.
We built our club house from donated materials and the labour of our
members.
Our fleet is old, the youngest is a 1975 K13 supported by a K7 (just
refurbed by club members) and our single seaters are between 45 and 60
years old except for the chairman's LAK 17. but we can all fly to cloud
base, soar the ridge, find the thermal and hope for the wave.
Staying up for 35 minutes in minimal lift (max 0.3kts on the averager) is
a challenge and landing on our Nth/Sth strip in a westerly crosswind makes
for good pilots.
Who needs $150,000 planes or $20,000 on the panel to fly - 3 dials, a
stick and two pedals, a good pair of eyes and a sensitive seat will keep
you up for hours.
So get out there and fly, tell your friends (give them a flight for their
birthday) build relationships with schools and youth organizations and
show and tell what you do - even lawyers can be persuaded (take them up
and loop them sick if they aren't).
Life is too short to let the tyre on your glider go flat - get in the air
and take the world with you if you can.
Have a look at our club on:
http://dumfriesgliding.110mb.com/index.html
David Neilson
Dumfries & District GLiding Club

[David Neilson]

5 years ago Dumfries & District Gliding Club had less than 10 members and
was struggling to keep flying.
Thanks to the enthusiasm and dedication of the members we have grown our
club to 50 members last year.
Imagination and links with local groups like the Air Museum have helped
enormously, A glider at the museum open day generated over 100 inquiries
and 30+ people arrived to fly during our flying week a few weeks later.
A can do attitude and a desire to share the FUN of flying, a welcoming
smile and an accommodating clubhouse culture attracts and keeps members
from 4 years of age to 78 years of age (everyone of whom has flown at some
point).
We flew 30 Girl Guide leaders as part of their centenary celebrations
(adding two members)
The Local Air Cadet group is also involved with the club and will we hope
generate junior members over the next year.

Do not get the wrong idea we do have our problems and have to work hard to
keep the culture right and the members on board but we have committed to
providing the opportunity for any and all to soar over our beautiful south
west of Scotland.
We built our club house from donated materials and the labour of our
members.
Our fleet is old, the youngest is a 1975 K13 supported by a K7 (just
refurbed by club members) and our single seaters are between 45 and 60
years old except for the chairman's LAK 17. but we can all fly to cloud
base, soar the ridge, find the thermal and hope for the wave.
Staying up for 35 minutes in minimal lift (max 0.3kts on the averager) is
a challenge and landing on our Nth/Sth strip in a westerly crosswind makes
for good pilots.
Who needs $150,000 planes or $20,000 on the panel to fly - 3 dials, a
stick and two pedals, a good pair of eyes and a sensitive seat will keep
you up for hours.
So get out there and fly, tell your friends (give them a flight for their
birthday) build relationships with schools and youth organizations and
show and tell what you do - even lawyers can be persuaded (take them up
and loop them sick if they aren't).
Life is too short to let the tyre on your glider go flat - get in the air
and take the world with you if you can.
Have a look at our club on:
http://dumfriesgliding.110mb.com/index.html
David Neilson
Dumfries & District GLiding Club

[Nyal Williams[_2_]]

Martin Eiler keeps saying that we need a celebrity glider pilot, who would
make it "cool."

Problem with that is that the celebrity most likely wants to keep such
activity private as a way to get away from the crowd.

At 00:25 09 May 2011, bildan wrote:
>On May 8, 10:45=A0am, "kirk.stant" wrote:
>> Well, I think we need to take off our blinders and face reality.
>> Flying is no longer an exciting adventure; it's going through TSA
>> searches and being crammed into a tubular extrusion for hours without
>> food or entertainment. =A0Or it's UAVs whacking bad guys, controlled
>> from an Air Base in Nevada.
>>
>> There will always be a small group of people of all ages who will
>> gravitate to gliding, either because they can't afford power flying,
>> or like to try something different, or are attracted to the
>> competitive aspects.
>>
>> But to expect people to rush to gliding because we can make it less
>> expensive? =A0Won't happen. It's already about as inexpensive as
flying
>> can get!
>>
>> And forget homebuilding - the numbers will never be very big. =A0The
SSA
>> isn't the EAA, unfortunately (or perhaps, fortunately!).
>>
>> The European model would appear to work better, judging by where all
>> the new gliders come from - more social aspects, bigger clubs with
>> better equipment (NO 2-33s!!!!), much greater emphasis on gliding as a
>> sport (XC, badges, OLC, racing, records) than as just twirlybirding on
>> a nice Saturday afternoon.
>>
>> But even the euros are losing membership! So as much as I prefer their
>> approach to the typical US glider operation, they still have the same
>> problem - flying just isn't sexy any more.
>>
>> So what is the answer? =A0Quit worrying about it, go out and fly, try
to
>> introduce someone to gliding who might actually be interested.
>>
>> Kirk
>> 66
>
>Kirk, if they actually knew about us, I think there is a real
>possibility of interesting 1 in a thousand (.1%) of the US
>population. That's 300,000 new pilots. Should that happen, the
>immediate problem would be we don't have the training gliders,
>instructors or tow planes to handle that number. Nice problem to have
>though.
>

[Bruce Hoult]

On May 10, 3:49*pm, Nyal Williams > wrote:
> Martin Eiler keeps saying that we need a celebrity glider pilot, who would
> make it "cool."
>
> Problem with that is that the celebrity most likely wants to keep such
> activity private as a way to get away from the crowd.

Here in New Zealand, the All Black (national Rugby team) captain is
well known to be a glider pilot, has taken reporters flying etc.

Doesn't seem to help a lot.

Google search "Richie McCaw gliding"

[Walt Connelly]

The idea about getting a celebrity to fly and making it cool is a good one. John Travolta, an accomplished pilot lives about an hour north of SLGP. Perhaps we could invite him down for a ride? His 707 would be a bit much for 3000 feet of grass but I am sure there is a single or light twin available for him to fly.

Tiger Woods spends a lot of time in Orlando. Perhaps we could invite him out..... Okay, that might not be the best idea because we don't want hookers, (or slicers) hanging around the flight line...... or do we? Hummmm. Make it sexy? With all of Tigers women hanging around it would be EXTRA SEXY. We could make them into line crew, I bet that would get the local TV stations out. I can see it now.....Tonight: Hookers at SLGP, film at Eleven.

Walt

[Jim Beckman[_2_]]

At 03:49 10 May 2011, Nyal Williams wrote:
>Martin Eiler keeps saying that we need a celebrity glider pilot, who
would
>make it "cool."

Well, we used to have that here in the US. Christopher
Reeves, the movie "Superman", was a glider pilot. We
used to point to one of the instructors at Van Sant AP
and tell folks, there's the guy that taught Superman
to Fly.

Actually, it didn't seem to help all that much.

We might have thought that the remake of "The Thomas
Crown Affair" might have given us a boost in interest
(even though it was far inferior to the original with Steve
McQueen and Faye Dunaway). That didn't happen either.

I tend to believe that the people who really get the appeal
of gliding will find their way to us one way or another. I
suppose I've converted two people into glider pilots over
the years that I can bring to mind. One was a result of a
poster (from SOARING magazine) that I had on the wall
of my office. A woman walking down the hallway stopped
to ask what it was, and one thing led to another. She
eventually got the rating and owned a 1-26 for quite a
while. (But I can tell you, it ticked me off more than a bit
when she brought her boyfriend along to the airport for
her promised glider ride. What a disappointment. But she
got the glider bug nonetheless.)

Jim Beckman

[lanebush]

On May 10, 8:15*am, Walt Connelly <Walt.Connelly.
> wrote:
> The idea about getting a celebrity to fly and making it cool is a good
> one. *John Travolta, an accomplished pilot lives about an hour north of
> SLGP. *Perhaps we could invite him down for a ride? *His 707 would be a
> bit much for 3000 feet of grass but I am sure there is a single or light
> twin available for him to fly. *
>
> Tiger Woods spends a lot of time in Orlando. *Perhaps we could invite
> him out..... * Okay, that might not be the best idea because we don't
> want hookers, (or slicers) hanging around the flight line...... * or do
> we? * Hummmm. *Make it sexy? *With all of Tigers women hanging around it
> would be EXTRA SEXY. *We could make them into line crew, I bet that
> would get the local TV stations out. *I can see it now.....Tonight:
> Hookers at SLGP, film at Eleven.
>
> Walt
>
> --
> Walt Connelly

Volunteer to present a program at your local civic clubs. Last year I
did a thirty minute presentation at Rotary and last week made the same
presentation at Kiwanis. The programs went over very well. I
included slides of the civic club members who are active in soaring.
You also get a blurb in the local newspaper as a byproduct. The civic
clubs are hungry for programs and especially like something out of the
oridinary. It is great PR and you might garner a new student or two.

Lane
XF

[Frank Whiteley]

On May 10, 8:45*am, lanebush > wrote:
> On May 10, 8:15*am, Walt Connelly <Walt.Connelly.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > The idea about getting a celebrity to fly and making it cool is a good
> > one. *John Travolta, an accomplished pilot lives about an hour north of
> > SLGP. *Perhaps we could invite him down for a ride? *His 707 would be a
> > bit much for 3000 feet of grass but I am sure there is a single or light
> > twin available for him to fly. *
>
> > Tiger Woods spends a lot of time in Orlando. *Perhaps we could invite
> > him out..... * Okay, that might not be the best idea because we don't
> > want hookers, (or slicers) hanging around the flight line...... * or do
> > we? * Hummmm. *Make it sexy? *With all of Tigers women hanging around it
> > would be EXTRA SEXY. *We could make them into line crew, I bet that
> > would get the local TV stations out. *I can see it now.....Tonight:
> > Hookers at SLGP, film at Eleven.
>
> > Walt
>
> > --
> > Walt Connelly
>
> Volunteer to present a program at your local civic clubs. *Last year I
> did a thirty minute presentation at Rotary and last week made the same
> presentation at Kiwanis. *The programs went over very well. *I
> included slides of the civic club members who are active in soaring.
> You also get a blurb in the local newspaper as a byproduct. *The civic
> clubs are hungry for programs and especially like something out of the
> oridinary. *It is great PR and you might garner a new student or two.
>
> Lane
> XF

I did a local rotary once, but when I got there found that chapter
only gave 10 minutes to speakers. That meeting was hurry to get
started, hurry through lunch, hurry to draw prizes, hurry through the
speakers, hurry to leave. Even with the free lunch it was not worth
it. My minimum is now 30 minutes, take it or leave it. But you are
right, civic clubs, EAA chapters, aviation programs and CC's and
colleges are good venues. Mall displays, not so much. We will be at
my local municipal airport on Learn to Fly Day, May 21st, 9am-4pm.

Frank Whiteley

[Tony V]

On 5/9/2011 11:49 PM, Nyal Williams wrote:
> Martin Eiler keeps saying that we need a celebrity glider pilot, who would
> make it "cool."


we have one - Cliff Robertson. He even made a few DVDs

http://store.ssa.org/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=706700
http://www.natgeoeducationvideo.com/film/902/journal-wave-soaring

Doesn't seem to have helped much.

Tony "6N"

[Walt Connelly]

On 5/9/2011 11:49 PM, Nyal Williams wrote:
Martin Eiler keeps saying that we need a celebrity glider pilot, who would
make it "cool."


we have one - Cliff Robertson. He even made a few DVDs

http://store.ssa.org/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=706700
http://www.natgeoeducationvideo.com/film/902/journal-wave-soaring

Doesn't seem to have helped much.

Tony "6N"

Would like to watch the video of Wave soaring by Cliff Robertson in its entirety. Only 3 minutes of the 16 minute video.

Walt

[bildan]

I have a partially thought out idea about this. This is still half
baked so cut me a little slack.

I frequently talk to people who say they really, really want to take
up soaring but can't. When asked why not, their response is vague and
unconvincing as if they are struggling with internal motivations.

I just read a disgusting paper published under the heading "managing
consumer behavior". It scientifically laid out coercive and
manipulative methods to induce consumers to spend more money on things
they didn't really need. It's in the same category as psychological
methods to induce workers to work longer hours without asking for more
pay.

It amazes me scientists can be seduced into doing this stuff but money
must be a powerful motivator.

The thing which was most annoying was the bragging in the paper about
how successful these methods are. An example was the long lines to be
the first to buy the new iPad. People, they said, by use of
ubiquitous advertizing, can be induced to either stay at home watching
more ads (which they actually called "Psy-War" propaganda) or head for
the mall to buy something they don't need.

The powerful subliminal message in this propaganda is that individuals
aren't supposed to do anything on their own initiative or to have
spare time to do it. Their lives are supposed to be spent working
long hours and spending every dollar of their paycheck on consumer
products.

It casts seeking personal fulfillment as "weird" behavior not
conducive to corporate profits.

I suspect the vague and unconvincing answers I get are due to this
very effective commercial propaganda. Trying to recruit people into
something as personally fulfilling as soaring is to take on powerful
adversaries.

Maybe, just maybe, we should sell soaring as subversive or rebellious
- something hugely fulfilling your boss and shopping mall merchants
wouldn't approve of.

Bill Daniels
(who doesn't own a TV)

[Nyal Williams[_2_]]

But, but, but, who's Cliff Robertson? It has to be one of the newest,
youngest, hottest, names that is always appearing on those magazines at
the check-out counters.

At 11:23 11 May 2011, Walt Connelly wrote:
>
>Tony V;771202 Wrote:
>> On 5/9/2011 11:49 PM, Nyal Williams wrote:-
>> Martin Eiler keeps saying that we need a celebrity glider pilot, who
>> would
>> make it "cool."-
>>
>>
>> we have one - Cliff Robertson. He even made a few DVDs
>>
>> http://store.ssa.org/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=706700
>> http://www.natgeoeducationvideo.com/film/902/journal-wave-soaring
>>
>> Doesn't seem to have helped much.
>>
>> Tony "6N"
>
>Would like to watch the video of Wave soaring by Cliff Robertson in its
>entirety. Only 3 minutes of the 16 minute video.
>
>Walt
>
>
>
>
>--
>Walt Connelly
>

[Walt Connelly]

OKAY, I'll do it. I would like to volunteer to take Angelina Jolie up for a glider ride. I'll sacrifice myself to help move the sport forward. Who's with me? If Angelina won't go, how about Lady GAGA? Or how about that Playboy Playmate that Heff is going to marry?

Walt

[Frank Whiteley]

On May 12, 5:34*pm, Walt Connelly <Walt.Connelly.
> wrote:
> OKAY, I'll do it. *I would like to volunteer to take Angelina Jolie up
> for a glider ride. *I'll sacrifice myself to help move the sport
> forward. *Who's with me? *If Angelina won't go, how about Lady GAGA? *Or
> how about that Playboy Playmate that Heff is going to marry?
>
> Walt
>
> --
> Walt Connelly

You get my vote. Go for it Walt.

Frank Whiteley