XC Soar map help needed

[Ken Latam]

Running XC Soar on an Ipaq 2215. The program loaded and runs fine as well
as the Flashcard GPS unit. My problem is how do you load the map data into
the program? I have gone to the Naviter web site and downloaded the map
covering this area,but can't get XC Soar to find it.

Ken

[Max Kellermann]

Ken Latam > wrote:
> Running XC Soar on an Ipaq 2215. The program loaded and runs fine as well
> as the Flashcard GPS unit. My problem is how do you load the map data into
> the program? I have gone to the Naviter web site and downloaded the map
> covering this area,but can't get XC Soar to find it.

Hi Ken,

you can download pregenerated map files on our web site:

http://www.xcsoar.org/download/maps/

Naviter is our competitor, they're using a proprietary map format that
is not supported by XCSoar.

Max

[Xtophe]

On 6 juin, 21:13, Ken Latam > wrote:
> Running XC Soar on an Ipaq 2215. The program loaded and runs fine as well
> as the Flashcard GPS unit. My problem is how do you load the map data into
> the program? I have gone to the Naviter web site and downloaded the map
> covering this area,but can't get XC Soar to find it.

XCSoar has no relation with Naviter. And while the latest version can
read SeeYou waypoint and tasks file, it can't read the maps.

You need to downlaod a map from http://xcsoar.org/download/maps/ or
generate one at
http://mapgen.xcsoar.org/

hth,

Xtophe

[Ken Latam]

>Hi Ken,
you can download pregenerated map files on our web site:

http://www.xcsoar.org/download/maps/

Naviter is our competitor, they're using a proprietary map format that is
not supported by XCSoar.
>
>Max
Thanks a bunch. BUT I need the map that is the next area EAST of:

CAN_SE_BC

Any chance of it being added?

Ken

[Grider Pirate]

On Jun 6, 7:30*pm, Ken Latam > wrote:
> >Hi Ken,
>
> you can download pregenerated map files on our web site:
>
> *http://www.xcsoar.org/download/maps/
>
> Naviter is our competitor, they're using a proprietary map format that is
> not supported by XCSoar.
>
> >Max
>
> Thanks a bunch. BUT I need the map that is the next area EAST of:
>
> CAN_SE_BC
>
> Any chance of it being added? *
>
> Ken

I'm pretty sure the you can generate it with Mapgen as Xtophe
suggested.

[Grider Pirate]

On Jun 6, 7:30*pm, Ken Latam > wrote:
> >Hi Ken,
>
> you can download pregenerated map files on our web site:
>
> *http://www.xcsoar.org/download/maps/
>
> Naviter is our competitor, they're using a proprietary map format that is
> not supported by XCSoar.
>
> >Max
>
> Thanks a bunch. BUT I need the map that is the next area EAST of:
>
> CAN_SE_BC
>
> Any chance of it being added? *
>
> Ken

Have you tried Mapgen as Xtophe suggested? If it works as it used to,
you can supply the coordinates of the corners of the area you want, or
your waypoint file.

[Ken Latam]

>Have you tried Mapgen as Xtophe suggested? If it works as it used to,
>you can supply the coordinates of the corners of the area you want, or
>your waypoint file.

Yes. Wonderfull site,exact area I need. But I still cannot add the map
data to the XC Soar. In the setup system window #1 "site" when the map
database box is tapped, an empty screen is shown. It looks like the .xcm
map file should be listed here,but it is not.

It is added to the program file's next to XC Soar,but will not transfer
over.

Now what?

Ken

[Max Kellermann]

Ken Latam > wrote:
> But I still cannot add the map data to the XC Soar. In the setup
> system window #1 "site" when the map database box is tapped, an
> empty screen is shown. It looks like the .xcm map file should be
> listed here,but it is not.
>
> It is added to the program file's next to XC Soar,but will not transfer
> over.

Did you copy the .XCM file to the XCSoarData folder? The XCSoar
manual describes this in detail.

To help you further, I need more information about your setup - what
device? What operating system? Where and how did you install XCSoar?
Where did you copy the other data files? etc.

[Ken Latam]

I am running an Ipaq 2215 on windows pocket pc 2003. XC Soar and the
cabinet file were downloaded to my PC then copied to the Ipaq in the start
up directory. I did have XC Soar ver 6.0 but have changed to ver 6.1. Tho I
liked ver 6.0 better. in 6.1 I need to redo ALL the info every time the
program is started.

Ken

[Grider Pirate]

On Jun 6, 2:11*pm, Max Kellermann > wrote:
> Ken Latam > wrote:
> > Running XC Soar on an Ipaq 2215. The program loaded and runs fine as well
> > as the Flashcard GPS unit. My problem is how do you load the map data into
> > the program? I have gone to the Naviter web site and downloaded the map
> > covering this area,but can't get XC Soar to find it.
>
> Hi Ken,
>
> you can download pregenerated map files on our web site:
>
> *http://www.xcsoar.org/download/maps/
>
> Naviter is our competitor, they're using a proprietary map format that
> is not supported by XCSoar.
>
> Max

Okay, now I'm confused too. I used the link above, and downloaded the
map for Truckee. I extracted all the files from the zipped folder,
and then searched for a file with an xcm extension, but found none.

[Max Kellermann]

Grider Pirate > wrote:
> Okay, now I'm confused too. I used the link above, and downloaded the
> map for Truckee. I extracted all the files from the zipped folder,
> and then searched for a file with an xcm extension, but found none.

XCM files are technically ZIP files, but they should not be extracted.
The "zipped folder" you mean is the XCM file.

[Max Kellermann]

Ken Latam > wrote:
> I am running an Ipaq 2215 on windows pocket pc 2003. XC Soar and the
> cabinet file were downloaded to my PC then copied to the Ipaq in the
> start up directory.

That answers only half of my questions. I cannot help you until I
have all the information.

> I did have XC Soar ver 6.0 but have changed to ver 6.1. Tho I
> liked ver 6.0 better. in 6.1 I need to redo ALL the info every time the
> program is started.

I do not understand. What exactly do you have to redo, and why do you
think you have to redo it?

[Ken Latam]

Double tap the "config" box goes to "setup system" where the input data
for all 21 page's are returned to default mode .

Page #1 is site files (map database,waywoint's) etc. It also default's
to the LS 8 Polar which is a bit of a challenge for my Skylark 4 to match.


I am getting very frustrated with this piece of teck crap(the PDA). If
it's not sorted out soon its getting punted and I will stick with the
good old VFR map and compass(they have allways worked).

Ken

[Grider Pirate]

On Jun 7, 10:43*pm, Max Kellermann > wrote:
> Grider Pirate > wrote:
> > Okay, now I'm confused too. *I used the link above, and downloaded the
> > map for Truckee. *I extracted all the files from the zipped folder,
> > and then searched for a file with an xcm extension, but found none.
>
> XCM files are technically ZIP files, but they should not be extracted.
> The "zipped folder" you mean is the XCM file.

Thanks Max. I ended up using the Map Generator and providing my
waypoint file. Works fine!
BTW, thanks for all the work you and the others on the XCSoar team do.

[Max Kellermann]

Ken Latam > wrote:
> Double tap the "config" box goes to "setup system" where the input data
> for all 21 page's are returned to default mode .
>
> Page #1 is site files (map database,waywoint's) etc. It also default's
> to the LS 8 Polar which is a bit of a challenge for my Skylark 4 to match.
>
>
> I am getting very frustrated with this piece of teck crap(the PDA). If
> it's not sorted out soon its getting punted and I will stick with the
> good old VFR map and compass(they have allways worked).

Let me repeat the questions which you did not answer yet, which I need
answered before I can help you further:

Did you copy the .XCM file to the XCSoarData folder? Where did you
copy the other data files?

[Ken Latam]

I have a copy of the XC Soar files(XC Soar and the cabinet files,and map)on
the SD card in the XC Soar Data directory as you sugested(waist of time as
the Ipaq can't see the SD card) and a copy of both file's on the Ipaq
windows "start up directory" where I can at least see the program and
work with it a little bit.

If the XC Soar program must run from the SD card then I am at a dead end
till a solution for the SD card issue is found.

I like very much what I have seen of XC Soar, but WHY WHY would they build
a device with an SD and CF slot that the device can't detect.

Ken

[Max Kellermann]

Ken Latam > wrote:
> I have a copy of the XC Soar files(XC Soar and the cabinet files,and map)on
> the SD card in the XC Soar Data directory as you sugested(waist of time as
> the Ipaq can't see the SD card) and a copy of both file's on the Ipaq
> windows "start up directory" where I can at least see the program and
> work with it a little bit.

XCSoar doesn't look for data files in the "start up directory". And
of course it can't load data files from a SD card that doesn't work in
your iPaq.

> If the XC Soar program must run from the SD card then I am at a dead end
> till a solution for the SD card issue is found.

No, you can choose whether to store the data files on the SD card (in
XCSoarData), or on the internal memory (usually "/My
Documents/XCSoarData"). When XCSoarData exists on any SD card, XCSoar
always uses this location. If not, then the one on "My Documents" is
used. The XCSoarData directory is created automatically by XCSoar on
the first start.

Both choices have downsides: old iPaqs are extremely slow at accessing
the SD card. Internal memory is lost after each reboot, and internal
memory decreases the amount of RAM available for XCSoar, and XCSoar
may run out of memory in the middle of a flight.

> I like very much what I have seen of XC Soar, but WHY WHY would they build
> a device with an SD and CF slot that the device can't detect.

Just to be sure: did you insert a SDHC card? Old iPaqs can't read
SDHC. Which filesystem did you use on the card? iPaqs can only read
FAT/VFAT, but not NTFS, for example.

My personal recommendation is to throw away all the ancient kludgy and
buggy Windows CE crap and buy a modern Android device such as the Dell
Streak. It's down to 239 EUR over here in Germany.

Max

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 16:50:12 +0000, Max Kellermann wrote:

> My personal recommendation is to throw away all the ancient kludgy and
> buggy Windows CE crap and buy a modern Android device such as the Dell
> Streak. It's down to 239 EUR over here in Germany.
>
Max, I know you don't like WinMobile any more than I do, but if the OP
wants to experiment for less money, Amazon are selling the Binatone
Carrera X350 for 64 squids including a 2GB SD card or the B.350 for 70
quid without SD card. I'm using the B.350 and, apart from the usual
problem shared by all PNAs (a backlit screen competing with sunlight in
the cockpit) it works well and takes up a lot less panel space than an
iPAQ. The stuff here:

http://www.gregorie.org/gliding/pna/xcsoar.html

should get the OP up and running on a Binatone or several other PNAs.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Roger Burghall]

In my experience Windows CE regularly "loses" the SD card and only
resetting (gently poke the stylus into the reset switch hole on the side
of the iPaq) allows it to find the card again. You can then copy files
from SD card to the main memory or "iPaq file store".

Then when the card is "lost" you are still in business.

Roger

At 16:50 08 June 2011, Max Kellermann wrote:
>Ken Latam wrote:
>> I have a copy of the XC Soar files(XC Soar and the cabinet files,and
>map)on
>> the SD card in the XC Soar Data directory as you sugested(waist of
time
>as
>> the Ipaq can't see the SD card) and a copy of both file's on the
Ipaq
>> windows "start up directory" where I can at least see the program
and
>> work with it a little bit.
>
>XCSoar doesn't look for data files in the "start up directory". And
>of course it can't load data files from a SD card that doesn't work in
>your iPaq.
>
>> If the XC Soar program must run from the SD card then I am at a dead
end
>> till a solution for the SD card issue is found.
>
>No, you can choose whether to store the data files on the SD card (in
>XCSoarData), or on the internal memory (usually "/My
>Documents/XCSoarData"). When XCSoarData exists on any SD card, XCSoar
>always uses this location. If not, then the one on "My Documents" is
>used. The XCSoarData directory is created automatically by XCSoar on
>the first start.
>
>Both choices have downsides: old iPaqs are extremely slow at accessing
>the SD card. Internal memory is lost after each reboot, and internal
>memory decreases the amount of RAM available for XCSoar, and XCSoar
>may run out of memory in the middle of a flight.
>
>> I like very much what I have seen of XC Soar, but WHY WHY would they
>build
>> a device with an SD and CF slot that the device can't detect.
>
>Just to be sure: did you insert a SDHC card? Old iPaqs can't read
>SDHC. Which filesystem did you use on the card? iPaqs can only read
>FAT/VFAT, but not NTFS, for example.
>
>My personal recommendation is to throw away all the ancient kludgy and
>buggy Windows CE crap and buy a modern Android device such as the Dell
>Streak. It's down to 239 EUR over here in Germany.
>
>Max
>

[Ken Latam]

Thanks Max. But still a no-go. XC Soar is located in "my documents/XC Soar
Data" folder. It still cannot find the map file's and I must redo all the
pilot details,Pilot name,aircraft,GPS com port, polar,units(I run the
Australian system),etc each time the program is started. Of course I could
always just leave it on and never shut it off. Maybe hard on the battery
tho.

You are right in it may be better to ditch the old system for new
equipment. Something to look at for winter.


Ken

[Ken Latam]

WOO HOO!! It works!!! Thank you all very much for your help. Rodger,we
need to go for a few pint's ON ME some day. By placing the map file's in
the "ipaq file store" and setting the start menue to open COM port 7
(GPS) I am now off and running.

At 19:52 08 June 2011, Roger Burghall wrote:
>In my experience Windows CE regularly "loses" the SD card and only
>resetting (gently poke the stylus into the reset switch hole on the side
>of the iPaq) allows it to find the card again. You can then copy files
>from SD card to the main memory or "iPaq file store".
>Roger



Ken

[Werner Schmidt]

Hi folks,

> WOO HOO!! It works!!! Thank you all very much for your help. Rodger,we
> need to go for a few pint's ON ME some day. By placing the map file's in
> the "ipaq file store" and setting the start menue to open COM port 7
> (GPS) I am now off and running.

some other questions regarding XCSoar. I'm just playing around with it
(maybe I then find it useful some time :-) ).

I run it on a windows mobile based device (HTC Blue Angel with WM 6.5 as
OS).

By now I have these questions:

#1: How do I manage XCSoar to show not only airspaces, but also
air*fields* in the map? Would find that helpful ...

#2: the map isn't very detailed. Where may I get more detailed maps?

#3: airfield- and airspace data I found is somewhat out-of-date. Is
there any source in the WWW for more up-to-date data?

Regards and thanks in advance

Werner

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Thu, 09 Jun 2011 22:05:20 +0200, Werner Schmidt wrote:

> By now I have these questions:
>
> #1: How do I manage XCSoar to show not only airspaces, but also
> air*fields* in the map? Would find that helpful ...
>
Airfields are simply the waypoints in either waypoints file that carry a
'landable' and/or 'airfield' attribute. Additional information about any
turnpoint (including airfields) can be added by including it in the
Waypoint Details file.

> #2: the map isn't very detailed. Where may I get more detailed maps?
>
You can't. The maps are either pre-canned or generated by using the map
generator on the XCSoar website. Only details held in the digital mapping
database can appear in a generated map.

> #3: airfield- and airspace data I found is somewhat out-of-date. Is
> there any source in the WWW for more up-to-date data?
>
Airspace data is generally maintained by somebody in the country
containing it. Your national gliding association may hold it or a
reference to where it may be found. You should also check in the Soaring
Server's airspace pages. http://soaringweb.org/Airspace lists the
national airspace pages on this server.

Same goes for waypoint information.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Ken Latam]

For listing all the local (<200km)airport's I used my latest VFR flight
map. Set each one as an Airport instead of a Turn Point. I will be
visiting as many of the local ranchers/farmers as many have their own
strip at home. Will need to include in the comments section, what the
surounding area is(pasture:look for cattle,or crop: corn is nasty) .
Google Earth is good for this as well as it will aid in finding them.

Ken

[Ken Latam]

Now I just need to figure out how to keep all my waypoints from being
deleted eveytime I close the program. It's very time consuming to add
them each time
Other than that, this weekend was a good workout for XC Soar and it worked
flawlessly.

Ken

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 20:30:31 +0000, Ken Latam wrote:

> Now I just need to figure out how to keep all my waypoints from being
> deleted eveytime I close the program.
>
You should be ableto get national waypoints from the Soaring Server
http://soaringweb.org/TP/HomePage.html or your national soaring
association. Put it in the same place as airspace and maps.

If you meant tasks, remember to save a new task as soon as you've created
it. This way you can re-use it in future.

BTW, you are backing up your XCSoar set-up to your PC, I assume? Do it
every time you change the set-up / add a new data file / define a new
task and you'll be streets ahead when your iPaq and/or SD card fails or
gets lost.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Ken Latam]

>You should be ableto get national waypoints from the Soaring Server
>http://soaringweb.org/TP/HomePage.html or your national soaring
>association. Put it in the same place as airspace and maps.

They (waypoint list's are in PDF or TEXT format so I still have to load
them all by hand and no file( I havn't figured that one out yet)to retain
them in.

BTW, you are backing up your XCSoar set-up to your PC, I assume? Do it
>every time you change the set-up / add a new data file / define a new
>task and you'll be streets ahead when your iPaq and/or SD card fails or
gets lost.

And keeping a hard copy just in case.

Ken

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 23:30:23 +0000, Ken Latam wrote:

> They (waypoint list's are in PDF or TEXT format so I still have to load
> them all by hand and no file( I havn't figured that one out yet)to
> retain them in.
>
XCSoar uses CAI (Cambridge, .DAT) turnpoint format and See You (.CUP)
format - check their website about the latter. You can find both formats
files on the Soaring Exchange and, if you need to add any points,
http://www.gregorie.org/gliding/pna/cai_format.html
is a description of the CAI file format.


> BTW, you are backing up your XCSoar set-up to your PC, I assume? Do it
>>every time you change the set-up / add a new data file / define a new
>>task and you'll be streets ahead when your iPaq and/or SD card fails or
> gets lost.
>
> And keeping a hard copy just in case.
>
> Ken



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Werner Schmidt]

Hello Martin Gregorie, you wrote at 06.10.2011 00:13

> On Thu, 09 Jun 2011 22:05:20 +0200, Werner Schmidt wrote:
>
>> #1: How do I manage XCSoar to show not only airspaces, but also
>> air*fields* in the map? Would find that helpful ...
>>
> Airfields are simply the waypoints in either waypoints file that carry a
> 'landable' and/or 'airfield' attribute. Additional information about any
> turnpoint (including airfields) can be added by including it in the
> Waypoint Details file.

thank you; I now chose "AirfieldDetails-Germany.txt" as "Waypoint
details" and it works.

>> #2: the map isn't very detailed. Where may I get more detailed maps?
>>
> You can't. The maps are either pre-canned or generated by using the map
> generator on the XCSoar website. Only details held in the digital mapping
> database can appear in a generated map.

Obviuously. I hoped there could be another database (with more detailed
maps) somewhere in the www ...

>> #3: airfield- and airspace data I found is somewhat out-of-date. Is
>> there any source in the WWW for more up-to-date data?
>>
> Airspace data is generally maintained by somebody in the country
> containing it. Your national gliding association may hold it or a
> reference to where it may be found. You should also check in the Soaring
> Server's airspace pages. http://soaringweb.org/Airspace lists the
> national airspace pages on this server.
>
> Same goes for waypoint information.

THX again; I'll have a look at this [... seconds later ...] found an
updated airspace file :-)

Another question: is it possible to set the default starting point for
SIM mode?

Regards
Werner

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 20:46:29 +0200, Werner Schmidt wrote:

> Another question: is it possible to set the default starting point for
> SIM mode?
>
Yes, with an entry in the Waypoint details file. This does two things:
- in sim mode it sets the starting point for the program
- it gets added to your target list, so it can be selected easily if
you want to abandon the task and go home, even if there is no
current task or your home base isn't included in your task.

To use it, you need a defined turnpoint on your home field. Add an entry
for this turnpoint to the 'turnpoint details' file with '=HOME' in the
header for the entry. Here's my minimum home entry:

======================airfields.txt=============== ========
[GRL GrnsdnLd=HOME]
Gransden Lodge

======================airfields.txt=============== ========

where the lines of hyphens mark the start and end of the file and
'GRL GrnsdnLd' the the turnpoint name exactly as it appears in the
turnpoint file. You can add anything you like to the entry, such as land-
out phone numbers, provided that fits in the display area used for a
turnpoint description.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Werner Schmidt]

Hello Martin Gregorie, you wrote at 06.15.2011 14:25

> On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 20:46:29 +0200, Werner Schmidt wrote:
>> Another question: is it possible to set the default starting point for
>> SIM mode?
>>
> Yes, with an entry in the Waypoint details file. This does two things:
> - in sim mode it sets the starting point for the program
> - it gets added to your target list, so it can be selected easily if
> you want to abandon the task and go home, even if there is no
> current task or your home base isn't included in your task.
>
> To use it, you need a defined turnpoint on your home field. Add an entry
> for this turnpoint to the 'turnpoint details' file with '=HOME' in the
> header for the entry. Here's my minimum home entry:
>
> ======================airfields.txt=============== ========
> [GRL GrnsdnLd=HOME]
> Gransden Lodge
>
> ======================airfields.txt=============== ========

I needed some time and some trials to understand that ... finally, I've
got it. I just had to edit my "AirfieldDetails-Germany.txt" file, put
"=HOME" behind the entry of my home airfield and it works.

Again, thank you. Let's see when I'll have the next question ;-)

Regards
Werner

[Grider Pirate]

On Jun 17, 12:05*pm, Werner Schmidt > wrote:
> Hello Martin Gregorie, you wrote at 06.15.2011 14:25
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 14 Jun 2011 20:46:29 +0200, Werner Schmidt wrote:
> >> Another question: is it possible to set the default starting point for
> >> SIM mode?
>
> > Yes, with an entry in the Waypoint details file. This does two things:
> > - in sim mode it sets the starting point for the program
> > - it gets added to your target list, so it can be selected easily if
> > * *you want to abandon the task and go home, even if there is no
> > * *current task or your home base isn't included in your task.
>
> > To use it, you need a defined turnpoint on your home field. Add an entry
> > for this turnpoint to the 'turnpoint details' file with '=HOME' in the
> > header for the entry. Here's my minimum home entry:
>
> > ======================airfields.txt=============== ========
> > [GRL GrnsdnLd=HOME]
> > Gransden Lodge
>
> > ======================airfields.txt=============== ========
>
> I needed some time and some trials to understand that ... finally, I've
> got it. I just had to edit my "AirfieldDetails-Germany.txt" file, put
> "=HOME" behind the entry of my home airfield and it works.
>
> Again, thank you. Let's see when I'll have the next question ;-)
>
> Regards
> * * * * Werner- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

There is excellent support for XCSoar on thier forum: http://www.xcsoar.org/forum/
.... and http://xcsoar.1045713.n5.nabble.com/
The first one listed is 'new' and I think, preferred by the
developers. The second one probably gets you the widest audience
though....
Both are 'searchable', to see if someone else already had the same, or
similar question.
Cheers,
Jim

[Werner Schmidt]

Hello Grider Pirate, you wrote at 06.17.2011 22:37

[curious: what's a "grider"?]

> There is excellent support for XCSoar on thier forum: http://www.xcsoar.org/forum/
> ... and http://xcsoar.1045713.n5.nabble.com/
> The first one listed is 'new' and I think, preferred by the
> developers. The second one probably gets you the widest audience
> though....
> Both are 'searchable', to see if someone else already had the same, or
> similar question.

Thanks also to you for your advice. Actually, i already knew the 1. site
listed above. But, as my native language isn't English it's not easy for
me to find applicable keywords for a conducive search. So it is less
extensive to ask someone personally (correct diction?). And I think I
didn't overload the newsgroup nor this (existing) thread with a couple
of questions ;-)

Regards
Werner