Question to Contest Pilots

[Scott Alexander[_2_]]

I am seriously looking for a peice of land to build a grass runway to
fly gliders from. There are lots of things I hope to fulfill with
this, one of them is hosting an annual glider contest. Land has
fallen to a very cheap price - 1,500-2,000 an acre. In the near term
the plan would be to have some cross country racing between a half
dozen friends, then in the future, host a regional contest.

I have a good relationship with the FAA and County Government to
receive a blessing for this. One of the head officials in the county
government has his own airstrip and is a big aviation enthusiast who
offered his political help in getting this approved. My FAA friend
built a grass strip about 3-5 miles away and is also an aviation
enthusiast.

I'm looking in the Slayden, Mississippi area which has good
predictable soaring conditions. For the past three years I have been
soaring through this area and found consistent lift. The area has
good drainage, great landable fields and lots of private airports that
are glider friendly.

So here's a couple questions for you die hard racers out there:



If a gliderport at 350 ft MSL elevation is located 3-5 miles under the
edge of a Class B airspace with a floor of 4,000 MSL is that any big
issue?

If "half" of the start cylinder is located under the Class B is that
an issue?

What is the Minimum length and width for a grass runway? (not
including turn off areas for trailers, RV's, etc)

What size and spacing is necessary for a grid of 40 gliders?


Any thoughts and or suggestions are welcome. Last week I had
everything set for a purchase on a specific peice of property, until a
last second problem with the land made the property a no-go. So now
it's back to square one on my hunt for land.

[Steve Koerner]

One or more start cylinder may be located remote from the gliderport.
That should allow you to get out from under your class B. Remote
start cylinders are used routinely at Parowan, Uvalde and other
contest sites.

One consideration is that a site so close to class B almost certainly
means contending with power traffic. It would be better to choose a
location that is away from power traffic if possible to reduce the
collision hazard.

A good contest site needs a selection of motels and restaurants
nearby. If you are really wanting to design a first class contest
site, you should consider designing for 65 gliders not 40. That
means lots of tie-down / camping area. You would want the landing
area at least wide enough for two or three gliders to land at the same
time.

I hope it works out.

[Frank Paynter[_2_]]

On Jun 14, 4:16*pm, Scott Alexander >
wrote:
> I am seriously looking for a peice of land to build a grass runway to
> fly gliders from. *There are lots of things I hope to fulfill with
> this, one of them is hosting an annual glider contest. *Land has
> fallen to a very cheap price - 1,500-2,000 an acre. *In the near term
> the plan would be to have some cross country racing between a half
> dozen friends, then in the future, host a regional contest.
>
> I have a good relationship with the FAA and County Government to
> receive a blessing for this. *One of the head officials in the county
> government has his own airstrip and is a big aviation enthusiast who
> offered his political help in getting this approved. *My FAA friend
> built a grass strip about 3-5 miles away and is also an aviation
> enthusiast.
>
> I'm looking in the Slayden, Mississippi area which has good
> predictable soaring conditions. *For the past three years I have been
> soaring through this area and found consistent lift. *The area has
> good drainage, great landable fields and lots of private airports that
> are glider friendly.
>
> So here's a couple questions for you die hard racers out there:
>
> If a gliderport at 350 ft MSL elevation is located 3-5 miles under the
> edge of a Class B airspace with a floor of 4,000 MSL is that any big
> issue?
>
> If "half" of the start cylinder is located under the Class B is that
> an issue?
>
> What is the Minimum length and width for a grass runway? (not
> including turn off areas for trailers, RV's, etc)
>
> What size and spacing is necessary for a grid of 40 gliders?
>
> Any thoughts and or suggestions are welcome. *Last week I had
> everything set for a purchase on a specific peice of property, until a
> last second problem with the land made the property a no-go. *So now
> it's back to square one on my hunt for land.

Scott,

I heartily applaud your effort to create a new soaring site. IMHO,
Owning the property is key to developing a first rate soaring center.
If you don't own the property, then long-term investments aren't
attractive. If you do own the property, then everything else can be
developed over time.

Regarding required acreage - take a look at other privately-owned
gliderports and use Google Earth to estimate their size. For
instance, my home field at CCSC has runway dimensions of approximately
3000 x 500'. This size easily accommodates a 30-glider regional
contest. Our total land area is probably twice the runway size (i.e.
about 3000 x 1000' or about 70 acres). New Castle, Va. measures about
2700 x 300', with another 2700 x 200' available for glider
accommodations, for a total of about 40 acres. Perry, SC by contrast
boast a 5000 x 350' runway (about 40 acres) plus some other parking
areas, and regularly hosts 60+ glider contests. Based on these
examples, I think you should be looking for at least 40 and possibly
as much as 60 acres, depending on the shape of the land. Obviously
longer and thinner is better for a gliderport than the more square
CCSC layout.

Regarding airspace - further away is better, but soaring sites with
airspace issues have learned to deal with them. Our club (CCSC,
Waynesville, OH) has three major airspace areas (Cincinnatti Class B,
Columbus Class C, and Dayton Class C) all within 50 miles of our home
airport, with lots of commercial jet traffic between them, and we
still manage to do a lot of cross country and hold regular contests.
Depending on the particulars of your proposed location, it could be
that being right against Class B airspace wouldn't be that much of an
issue. I would be more worried about a proposed location that lies
directly under an approach/departure path.

Just my $0.02

TA

[hretting]

You may want to research and see if any uncontrolled GA fields are
for sale by the state to get them off their books. A pilot I work with
bought a paved strip with buildings and things for 210K$ from the
state of California and is now semi developing it for home sites.
Check with the state DOT and go talk with some airport managers. Put
out the word you got cash. Tell them your plan to build a Soaring
mecca that will attract money and employee 100's. They would probably
loan you the money interest free.
Think outside the box and sell the idea. GA is suffering due to gas
price, alot of county airports are on the edge and the City/County
Planners want out.
Find the airport you like and if it looks unkept as if a budget cut
swept thru, that's the one to target. Bring a bank check with you for
$100K along with references and you may just be in the glider business
sooner than you think.
R