Handling differences between the 15m vs 16.6 ASW-20CL?

[Gary[_5_]]

This past week I purchased an ASW-20CL. Wondered if anyone has any
thoughts on the handling qualities of the 2 configurations. The 15m
version is equiped with Nixon winglets. The previous owner never flew
with the extended tips so could not offer opinion or advice.

Thanks, Gary Adams

[Dan[_6_]]

On Jun 16, 8:07*am, Gary > wrote:
> This past week I purchased an ASW-20CL. Wondered if anyone has any
> thoughts on the handling qualities of the 2 configurations. The 15m
> version is equiped with Nixon winglets. The previous owner never flew
> with the extended tips so could not offer opinion or advice.
>
> Thanks, Gary Adams

Gary,
Try the ASW-20 Newsgroup.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ASW20owners/

enjoy the new glider....best glider ever built!

Dan
ASW-20
WO

[Gary[_5_]]

On Jun 16, 11:18*am, Dan > wrote:
> On Jun 16, 8:07*am, Gary > wrote:
>
> > This past week I purchased an ASW-20CL. Wondered if anyone has any
> > thoughts on the handling qualities of the 2 configurations. The 15m
> > version is equiped with Nixon winglets. The previous owner never flew
> > with the extended tips so could not offer opinion or advice.
>
> > Thanks, Gary Adams
>
> Gary,
> Try the ASW-20 Newsgroup.http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ASW20owners/
>
> enjoy the new glider....best glider ever built!
>
> Dan
> ASW-20
> WO

Hi Dan! I think I heard those same words from you earlier in the week,
didn't I? I am sure I'll have fun in it. My second 20, seperated by 25
years....glad to own one again. The first was an early model 20 003
from Rudy Moser in '78.
Gary
GA2

[Andreas Maurer]

On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 08:07:09 -0700 (PDT), Gary >
wrote:

>This past week I purchased an ASW-20CL. Wondered if anyone has any
>thoughts on the handling qualities of the 2 configurations. The 15m
>version is equiped with Nixon winglets. The previous owner never flew
>with the extended tips so could not offer opinion or advice.
>
>Thanks, Gary Adams


Sell the 16.6m extensions - the 20 is too light with them.

If I remember correctly, the 15m version has a better L/D from 65 kts
upwards - you hardly fly slower. A climb rate advantage of the 16.6
meters version is only noticeably in very, very weak thermals.


Andreas

[Gary[_5_]]

On Jun 17, 8:13*pm, Andreas Maurer > wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 08:07:09 -0700 (PDT), Gary >
> wrote:
>
> >This past week I purchased an ASW-20CL. Wondered if anyone has any
> >thoughts on the handling qualities of the 2 configurations. The 15m
> >version is equiped with Nixon winglets. The previous owner never flew
> >with the extended tips so could not offer opinion or advice.
>
> >Thanks, Gary Adams
>
> Sell the 16.6m extensions - the 20 is too light with them.
>
> If I remember correctly, the 15m version has a better L/D from 65 kts
> upwards - you hardly fly slower. A climb rate advantage of *the 16.6
> meters version is only noticeably in very, very weak thermals.
>
> Andreas

Thanks, Andreas.....I'm starting to get that from everybody. Can't
find any advantage to using anything but the 15m winglets.
Gary GA2

[Tim Taylor]

On Jun 17, 7:14*pm, Gary > wrote:
> On Jun 17, 8:13*pm, Andreas Maurer > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 16 Jun 2011 08:07:09 -0700 (PDT), Gary >
> > wrote:
>
> > >This past week I purchased an ASW-20CL. Wondered if anyone has any
> > >thoughts on the handling qualities of the 2 configurations. The 15m
> > >version is equiped with Nixon winglets. The previous owner never flew
> > >with the extended tips so could not offer opinion or advice.
>
> > >Thanks, Gary Adams
>
> > Sell the 16.6m extensions - the 20 is too light with them.
>
> > If I remember correctly, the 15m version has a better L/D from 65 kts
> > upwards - you hardly fly slower. A climb rate advantage of *the 16.6
> > meters version is only noticeably in very, very weak thermals.
>
> > Andreas
>
> Thanks, Andreas.....I'm starting to get that from everybody. Can't
> find any advantage to using anything but the 15m winglets.
> Gary GA2

Gary,

I had a Ventus b with 15 and 16.6 tips. I loved the 16.6's in the
spring and fall. Mine had winglets added on the 16.6 and they handled
as well as the 15m tips with winglets. I felt I had better glide up to
about 80 knots and very noticeable better ability to climb in light
conditions. With about a 9 pound wingloading it was one of my favorite
configurations to fly the Ventus.

Tim

[JJ Sinclair[_2_]]

On Jun 16, 8:07*am, Gary > wrote:
> This past week I purchased an ASW-20CL. Wondered if anyone has any
> thoughts on the handling qualities of the 2 configurations. The 15m
> version is equiped with Nixon winglets. The previous owner never flew
> with the extended tips so could not offer opinion or advice.
>
> Thanks, Gary Adams

I have flown the 20b and the LS-3a with the 16.6 wing tip extensions
and IMHO neither did much to improve the glide and just made the roll
rate noticably slower. They may have just extended an airfoil that was
optimized for the 15 meter span which had been chosen to give a gentle
stall and didn't increase the performance when extended. I believe
only SH got it right when extending the wings with their Ventus and
Numbus. Schleicher figured it out and changed the last 10' in order to
get the desired results in both the 15 meter and 18 meter
configurations on the 29.
Just my observations & opinions,
JJ

[Gary[_5_]]

On Jun 19, 2:33*pm, BruceGreeff > wrote:
> Indeed, the only extended 20 that I know of that really has a
> performance increase is experimental. Owner / engineer took a big saw to
> the wing and increased the span, while changing the airfoil and planform
> and introducing polyhedral. Resulting weight distribution and control
> responsiveness in 18m is conducive to performance that can / does match
> things like JS1 in the hands of suitably skilled pilot. (Not over entire
> flight envelope - which is where pilot skill counts)
>
> Having less area outboard moved the wing centre of pressure inboard ,
> substantially reducing the bending moment on the root - so it is
> possible to increase the wingloading back to something sensible. Hence
> it performs. Just increasing the span of the wrong airfoil by another
> 60cm or so is not going to improve anything.
>
> This is particularly true with the ASW20 - because the wing is flexible,
> and inclined to torsion. This results in the characteristic big vertical
> tip displacement - not something you want to aggravate.
>
> So - if yours is experimental, and you are brave, great things are
> possible. Otherwise the standard 15m is a fine ship.
>
> Bruce
>
> On 2011/06/18 04:23 PM, JJ Sinclair wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jun 16, 8:07 am, > *wrote:
> >> This past week I purchased an ASW-20CL. Wondered if anyone has any
> >> thoughts on the handling qualities of the 2 configurations. The 15m
> >> version is equiped with Nixon winglets. The previous owner never flew
> >> with the extended tips so could not offer opinion or advice.
>
> >> Thanks, Gary Adams
>
> > I have flown the 20b and the LS-3a with the 16.6 wing tip extensions
> > and IMHO neither did much to improve the glide and just made the roll
> > rate noticably slower. They may have just extended an airfoil that was
> > optimized for the 15 meter span which had been chosen to give a gentle
> > stall and didn't increase the performance when extended. I believe
> > only SH got it right when extending the wings with their Ventus and
> > Numbus. Schleicher figured it out and changed the last 10' in order to
> > get the desired results in both the 15 meter and 18 meter
> > configurations on the 29.
> > Just my observations& *opinions,
> > JJ
>
> --
> Bruce Greeff
> T59D #1771 & Std Cirrus #57- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks JJ and Bruce,
The answer is "yes" it is experimental.....and "no", I'm not brave,
the 15m tips will do just fine with it's Nixon winglets!
Thanks,
Gary Adams
ASW-20CL #20791 GA2

[[email protected]]

That's funny. I bought my first ASW 20 in 1981, then moved to a 20B in 1989, then sold that and got an ASW 24 in 2003, then sold that and bought a share in my original ASW 20 in 2010, then sold that and bought another ASW 20 with much fewer hours in 2012.

Ulli Werneburg

On Thursday, 16 June 2011 11:39:41 UTC-4, Gary Adams wrote:
> On Jun 16, 11:18*am, Dan > wrote:
> > On Jun 16, 8:07*am, Gary > wrote:
> >
> > > This past week I purchased an ASW-20CL. Wondered if anyone has any
> > > thoughts on the handling qualities of the 2 configurations. The 15m
> > > version is equiped with Nixon winglets. The previous owner never flew
> > > with the extended tips so could not offer opinion or advice.
> >
> > > Thanks, Gary Adams
> >
> > Gary,
> > Try the ASW-20 Newsgroup.http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ASW20owners/
> >
> > enjoy the new glider....best glider ever built!
> >
> > Dan
> > ASW-20
> > WO
>
> Hi Dan! I think I heard those same words from you earlier in the week,
> didn't I? I am sure I'll have fun in it. My second 20, seperated by 25
> years....glad to own one again. The first was an early model 20 003
> from Rudy Moser in '78.
> Gary
> GA2