Electronic total energy vario [Archive]

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kd6veb

July 19th 11, 12:01 AM

Hi Gang
The electronic TE vario should be possible to implement with modern
electronics today. I have googled this item but have not been able to
find one. Maybe it doesn't exist for whatever reasons. It would sure
simplify some of the complex TE probe systems that stick out of the
empennages of many gliders. Any ideas or thoughts?
Dave

guy

July 19th 11, 12:30 AM

There are many choices for electronic TE varios. Most are just about
any of the common flight computer vario systems. I fly with a
Cambridge 302 that is configured for electronic compensation. I have
only my mechanical vario on the TE probe. That way I have two
independent systems. The Cambridge 302 with electronic compensation
works very well for me.
Guy "DDS"

July 19th 11, 12:44 AM

On Jul 18, 6:01*pm, kd6veb > wrote:
> Hi Gang
> *The electronic TE vario should be possible to implement with modern
> electronics today. I have googled this item but have not been able to
> find one. Maybe it doesn't exist for whatever reasons. It would sure
> simplify some of the complex TE probe systems that stick out of the
> empennages of many gliders. Any ideas or thoughts?
> Dave

Try the Cambridge 302, Westerboer VW911, LX4000, to name a few.
Electronic TE has been around for a long time.

Kirk
66

Tony V

July 19th 11, 12:48 AM

On 7/18/2011 7:01 PM, kd6veb wrote:
> Hi Gang
> The electronic TE vario should be possible to implement with modern
> electronics today. I have googled this item but have not been able to
> find one. Maybe it doesn't exist for whatever reasons. It would sure
> simplify some of the complex TE probe systems that stick out of the
> empennages of many gliders. Any ideas or thoughts?
> Dave

The Cambridge 302 (and I'm sure many others) will do that. see the
manual http://www.cambridge-aero.com/manuals/302_v2.pdf , section 2.2.4.

Tony

Mike[_37_]

July 19th 11, 01:31 AM

Bill D

July 19th 11, 01:35 AM

On Jul 18, 5:01*pm, kd6veb > wrote:
> Hi Gang
> *The electronic TE vario should be possible to implement with modern
> electronics today. I have googled this item but have not been able to
> find one. Maybe it doesn't exist for whatever reasons. It would sure
> simplify some of the complex TE probe systems that stick out of the
> empennages of many gliders. Any ideas or thoughts?
> Dave

I don't think Dave is asking about the 302 since it uses a TE probe.
What I think he's asking about is doing the TE calculation in real-
time in silicon using just the airspeed and altitude data from pitot
and static ports. AFAIK, no variometer has ever taken this approach.

I've wondered about this too since it would do away with almost all
the special variometer plumbing as well as the probe. It would also
eliminate a lot of pneumatic artifacts.

Bill Daniels

Westbender

July 19th 11, 01:51 AM

On Jul 18, 7:35*pm, Bill D > wrote:
> On Jul 18, 5:01*pm, kd6veb > wrote:
>
> > Hi Gang
> > *The electronic TE vario should be possible to implement with modern
> > electronics today. I have googled this item but have not been able to
> > find one. Maybe it doesn't exist for whatever reasons. It would sure
> > simplify some of the complex TE probe systems that stick out of the
> > empennages of many gliders. Any ideas or thoughts?
> > Dave
>
> I don't think Dave is asking about the 302 since it uses a TE probe.
> What I think he's asking about is doing the TE calculation in real-
> time in silicon using just the airspeed and altitude data from pitot
> and static ports. *AFAIK, no variometer has ever taken this approach.
>
> I've wondered about this too since it would do away with almost all
> the special variometer plumbing as well as the probe. *It would also
> eliminate a lot of pneumatic artifacts.
>
> Bill Daniels

The 302 does not require a TE probe. You can connect the static port
to both the static and TE connections on the 302 and use pure
electronic TE compensation. The 302 was designed to do this very thing
as specified in the documentation.

Hagbard Celine

July 19th 11, 03:59 AM

It can be done and it can work quite well. My glider has no TE probe
and is equipped with an old Peschges VP4E NAV vario which is set up
for electronic compensation. In order for electronic TE to work
properly though the pitot and static systems installation must have
little to no inherent error. Not all glider designs meet this
criteria. If you go back and look at the Johnson flight tests in
Soaring magazine you'll find that quite a few gliders have large
errors in the static system which can put the airspeed indication
several knots out (dig up the article on the Standard Cirrus for a
good example of this).

Bill D

July 19th 11, 04:34 AM

On Jul 18, 8:59*pm, Hagbard Celine > wrote:
> It can be done and it can work quite well. My glider has no TE probe
> and is equipped with an old Peschges VP4E NAV vario which is set up
> for electronic compensation. In order for electronic TE to work
> properly though the pitot and static systems installation must have
> little to no inherent error. Not all glider designs meet this
> criteria. If you go back and look at the Johnson flight tests in
> Soaring magazine you'll find that quite a few gliders have large
> errors in the static system which can put the airspeed indication
> several knots out (dig up the article on the Standard Cirrus for a
> good example of this).

If the position error is known, why can't the vario computer use a
"lookup table' to produce calibrated airspeed?

mike

July 19th 11, 04:48 AM

On Jul 18, 9:34*pm, Bill D > wrote:
> On Jul 18, 8:59*pm, Hagbard Celine > wrote:
>
> > It can be done and it can work quite well. My glider has no TE probe
> > and is equipped with an old Peschges VP4E NAV vario which is set up
> > for electronic compensation. In order for electronic TE to work
> > properly though the pitot and static systems installation must have
> > little to no inherent error. Not all glider designs meet this
> > criteria. If you go back and look at the Johnson flight tests in
> > Soaring magazine you'll find that quite a few gliders have large
> > errors in the static system which can put the airspeed indication
> > several knots out (dig up the article on the Standard Cirrus for a
> > good example of this).
>
> If the position error is known, why can't the vario computer use a
> "lookup table' to produce calibrated airspeed?

Bill,

On the current Westerboer, tweaks can be simply done (manually), to
get the correct total energy. Probably on others also. The 1020 works/
worked well in both a RS-15 and Mini Nimbus- both with questionable
static locations.

Mike

kd6veb

July 19th 11, 04:56 AM

Hi Mike
The Westerboer 1020 vario is just what I may be looking for. Does
anyone have one of these and how good is it in a real glider with some
inaccuracies in the pitot and static systems? I have had a Stemme S10-
VT for 11 years (I just sold it) and the TE probe compensation was
much better than no compensation but still fairly poor. One could
easily demonstrate the stick thermal effect. Obviously the better the
TE compensation the easier it is to soar but my experience of the last
years is that 50% comp is OK but better than 70% comp is a winner.
Again your thoughts and experiences? Thanks.
Dave

On Jul 18, 5:31*pm, Mike > wrote:
> On Jul 18, 5:01*pm, kd6veb > wrote:
>
> > Hi Gang
> > *The electronic TE vario should be possible to implement with modern
> > electronics today. I have googled this item but have not been able to
> > find one. Maybe it doesn't exist for whatever reasons. It would sure
> > simplify some of the complex TE probe systems that stick out of the
> > empennages of many gliders. Any ideas or thoughts?
> > Dave
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> The Westerboer 1020 is the latest full featured electronic total
> energy vario from Westerboer- Great vario.
>
> Mike

Mike[_37_]

July 19th 11, 05:26 AM

On Jul 18, 9:56*pm, kd6veb > wrote:
> Hi Mike
> * The Westerboer 1020 vario is just what I may be looking for. Does
> anyone have one of these and how good is it in a real glider with some
> inaccuracies in the pitot and static systems? I have had a Stemme S10-
> VT for 11 years (I just sold it) and the TE probe compensation was
> much better than no compensation but still fairly poor. One could
> easily demonstrate the stick thermal effect. Obviously the better the
> TE compensation the easier it is to soar but my experience of the last
> years is that 50% comp is OK but better than 70% comp is a winner.
> Again your thoughts and experiences? Thanks.
> Dave
>
> On Jul 18, 5:31*pm, Mike > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 18, 5:01*pm, kd6veb > wrote:
>
> > > Hi Gang
> > > *The electronic TE vario should be possible to implement with modern
> > > electronics today. I have googled this item but have not been able to
> > > find one. Maybe it doesn't exist for whatever reasons. It would sure
> > > simplify some of the complex TE probe systems that stick out of the
> > > empennages of many gliders. Any ideas or thoughts?
> > > Dave
>
> > Hi Dave,
>
> > The Westerboer 1020 is the latest full featured electronic total
> > energy vario from Westerboer- Great vario.
>
> > Mike- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

As mentioned earlier Dave, I have used the same 1020 in two sailplanes-
no problems in either. Tim, at Wings and Wheels, has info and a copy
of the owner manual on his site.

Mike

David Reitter

July 19th 11, 03:18 PM

On Jul 18, 11:56*pm, kd6veb > wrote:

> * The Westerboer 1020 vario is just what I may be looking for. Does

As has been pointed out, many varios support electronic TE. Some
interesting info is in the LX166 manual (a vario from LX Navigation):

http://www.craggyaero.com/User%20Guides/LX166ManualEnglishVer0110.pdf

p.11/12 deal with TE; they say that for electronic TE to work well,
the static source must be close to the pitot.

Borgelt varios seem to only do pneumatic TE.

Tim Mara

July 19th 11, 11:23 PM

I have Electronic TE variometers.
please see my website
LX Navigation, Westerborer, Cambridge all have Electronic TE capability
for simple single 57mm Electronic TE check out Westerborer VW1020
thanks
tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com

"kd6veb" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Gang
> The electronic TE vario should be possible to implement with modern
> electronics today. I have googled this item but have not been able to
> find one. Maybe it doesn't exist for whatever reasons. It would sure
> simplify some of the complex TE probe systems that stick out of the
> empennages of many gliders. Any ideas or thoughts?
> Dave
>
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