STAND DOWN

[JJ Sinclair[_2_]]

Well, it's been quite a month so far, hasn't it? A 200 foot "practice"
rope break resulting in crash. A recently purchased old wooden glider
where the spoilers came open and weren't noticed except by the tow
pilot who gave the 'check your aircraft' signal and this was
misintereperted to mean 'release now'. A couple of broken birds at
Logan and a crashed ASW-20 near Lone Pine, Ca.

Let's just suppose the SSA was a military organization (Army Division,
Navy Carrier or Air Force Wing) what do you think they would do with 3
fatalities, 2 seriously injured and 5 broken birds in just over 3
weeks?

I believe any of these organizations would call for a STAND DOWN to
review everything they were doing that related in any way to the safe
operation of their aircraft. The SSA doesn't have the authority to
stop anything, but they do have the authority and responsibility to
call for a review of everything we're doing that relates in any way to
the safe operation of the US glider fleet:

+ Minimum safe altitude to practice rope brakes (SSA recommendation to
all members)

+ Tow signal review, one two, all? (SSA recommendation to all members)

+ Radios in all tow ships and sailplanes (SSA recommendation to all
members)

+ Communication check before any tow (SSA recommendation to all
members)

+ Training changes (SSA recommendation to all members)

+ Other safety items/areas?

Any SSA directors rading this, what do you think?

JJ Sinclair

[T8]

On Jul 24, 8:33*pm, JJ Sinclair > wrote:
> Well, it's been quite a month so far, hasn't it? A 200 foot "practice"
> rope break resulting in crash. A recently purchased old wooden glider
> where the spoilers came open and weren't noticed except by the tow
> pilot who gave the 'check your aircraft' signal and this was
> misintereperted to mean 'release now'. A couple of broken birds at
> Logan and a crashed ASW-20 near Lone Pine, Ca.
>
> Let's just suppose the SSA was a military organization (Army Division,
> Navy Carrier or Air Force Wing) what do you think they would do with 3
> fatalities, 2 seriously injured and 5 broken birds in just over 3
> weeks?
>
> I believe any of these organizations would call for a STAND DOWN to
> review everything they were doing that related in any way to the safe
> operation of their aircraft. The SSA doesn't have the authority to
> stop anything, but they do have the authority and responsibility to
> call for a review of everything we're doing that relates in any way to
> the safe operation of the US glider fleet:
>
> + Minimum safe altitude to practice rope brakes (SSA recommendation to
> all members)
>
> + Tow signal review, one two, all? (SSA recommendation to all members)
>
> + Radios in all tow ships and sailplanes (SSA recommendation to all
> members)
>
> + Communication check before any tow (SSA recommendation to all
> members)
>
> + Training changes (SSA recommendation to all members)
>
> + Other safety items/areas?
>
> Any SSA directors rading this, what do you think?
>
> JJ Sinclair

Properly executed ABCCCDE checklist before takeoff would have saved
two lives this year, several in the past.

The radio is a good idea, but it should be *redundant*. If it becomes
*necessary* to safety, as the kids say "you're doing it wrong".

My $0.02. I understand that we'll disagree on this.

btw: there is no one safe altitude for PTT training. Such a
recommendation is pointless. Thought that was obvious.

-Evan Ludeman / T8

[lanebush]

On Jul 24, 8:33*pm, JJ Sinclair > wrote:
> Well, it's been quite a month so far, hasn't it? A 200 foot "practice"
> rope break resulting in crash. A recently purchased old wooden glider
> where the spoilers came open and weren't noticed except by the tow
> pilot who gave the 'check your aircraft' signal and this was
> misintereperted to mean 'release now'. A couple of broken birds at
> Logan and a crashed ASW-20 near Lone Pine, Ca.
>
> Let's just suppose the SSA was a military organization (Army Division,
> Navy Carrier or Air Force Wing) what do you think they would do with 3
> fatalities, 2 seriously injured and 5 broken birds in just over 3
> weeks?
>
> I believe any of these organizations would call for a STAND DOWN to
> review everything they were doing that related in any way to the safe
> operation of their aircraft. The SSA doesn't have the authority to
> stop anything, but they do have the authority and responsibility to
> call for a review of everything we're doing that relates in any way to
> the safe operation of the US glider fleet:
>
> + Minimum safe altitude to practice rope brakes (SSA recommendation to
> all members)
>
> + Tow signal review, one two, all? (SSA recommendation to all members)
>
> + Radios in all tow ships and sailplanes (SSA recommendation to all
> members)
>
> + Communication check before any tow (SSA recommendation to all
> members)
>
> + Training changes (SSA recommendation to all members)
>
> + Other safety items/areas?
>
> Any SSA directors rading this, what do you think?
>
> JJ Sinclair

I hate to see the T49 crashed and my sympathies go out to the people
involved.

One thing I have noticed as a CFIG is the reluctance of people to take
a transition to another glider seriously. I know no details of the
T49 accident and can not comment on the accident chain.

I can say that as a member tells me they want to transition from the
2-33A to the 1-26 I ask them to go to our website and download the
operators manual for study. More often than not I get the "eye roll"
in response. I also have all of the equipment manuals on the website
yet it is usually about the third flight that the pilot will ask me
how to turn on the electric variometer. It seems that the simplicity
of gliders is often confused as "easy to fly". Gliders and glider
training needs to be approached with the seriousness of power planes.
A well run operation can be safe and fun at the same time. A loosely
run operation is "great fun" until the accident occurs. The 200'
premature tow release is an easy maneuver at our field but we have
5500' of unobstructed runway and a powerful tow plane. I imagine that
some clubs are not so fortunate and the maneuver becomes a little more
"exciting". In regards to misinterpreting tow signals I coordinate
with the tow pilot to practice "reading" the signals during training
at a safe altitude. After many years of part 121 check rides there is
another thing we should stress. Very few events in aviation require a
"hurried response". More often than not rushing complicates the
outcome. Please emphasize to your pilots that they should take a
breath and "wind the clock" before reacting to an unplanned event.
Just this weekend I was reminded of this rule when I banked left in
the tow plane thinking I felt a tow release. In fact the 2-33A was
just practicing slack rope recovery. I was reminded that I should
take a moment and confirm release via the mirror. One airline I
worked for treated every fire as a time sensitive event. We all
became spring loaded to shut something down as soon as the fire bell
rang. After a few crews shutting down the wrong engine or any engine
when it was not warranted the training was changed. The 30 second
pause to pull the proper check list is worth it if it prevents an
unwarranted engine shut down. Our glider emergencies are the same
way. I have a hard time imagining a scenario where a few seconds
pause in pulling the release will adversely effect the outcome. Maybe
I am on the wrong track. If so please correct me.

Lane

[Renny[_2_]]

On Jul 24, 6:33*pm, JJ Sinclair > wrote:
> Well, it's been quite a month so far, hasn't it? A 200 foot "practice"
> rope break resulting in crash. A recently purchased old wooden glider
> where the spoilers came open and weren't noticed except by the tow
> pilot who gave the 'check your aircraft' signal and this was
> misintereperted to mean 'release now'. A couple of broken birds at
> Logan and a crashed ASW-20 near Lone Pine, Ca.
>
> Let's just suppose the SSA was a military organization (Army Division,
> Navy Carrier or Air Force Wing) what do you think they would do with 3
> fatalities, 2 seriously injured and 5 broken birds in just over 3
> weeks?
>
> I believe any of these organizations would call for a STAND DOWN to
> review everything they were doing that related in any way to the safe
> operation of their aircraft. The SSA doesn't have the authority to
> stop anything, but they do have the authority and responsibility to
> call for a review of everything we're doing that relates in any way to
> the safe operation of the US glider fleet:
>
> + Minimum safe altitude to practice rope brakes (SSA recommendation to
> all members)
>
> + Tow signal review, one two, all? (SSA recommendation to all members)
>
> + Radios in all tow ships and sailplanes (SSA recommendation to all
> members)
>
> + Communication check before any tow (SSA recommendation to all
> members)
>
> + Training changes (SSA recommendation to all members)
>
> + Other safety items/areas?
>
> Any SSA directors rading this, what do you think?
>
> JJ Sinclair

Sadly, the list of accidents is even worse as there was also a crash
and fatality in a Taurus motorglider on July 8th north of Durango, CO.
Safety down days are very common in the military and may be a very
good way to reinforce safety & proper operating procedures...
Thx - Renny

[Bob]

On Jul 24, 7:05*pm, Renny > wrote:
> On Jul 24, 6:33*pm, JJ Sinclair > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Well, it's been quite a month so far, hasn't it? A 200 foot "practice"
> > rope break resulting in crash. A recently purchased old wooden glider
> > where the spoilers came open and weren't noticed except by the tow
> > pilot who gave the 'check your aircraft' signal and this was
> > misintereperted to mean 'release now'. A couple of broken birds at
> > Logan and a crashed ASW-20 near Lone Pine, Ca.
>
> > Let's just suppose the SSA was a military organization (Army Division,
> > Navy Carrier or Air Force Wing) what do you think they would do with 3
> > fatalities, 2 seriously injured and 5 broken birds in just over 3
> > weeks?
>
> > I believe any of these organizations would call for a STAND DOWN to
> > review everything they were doing that related in any way to the safe
> > operation of their aircraft. The SSA doesn't have the authority to
> > stop anything, but they do have the authority and responsibility to
> > call for a review of everything we're doing that relates in any way to
> > the safe operation of the US glider fleet:
>
> > + Minimum safe altitude to practice rope brakes (SSA recommendation to
> > all members)
>
> > + Tow signal review, one two, all? (SSA recommendation to all members)
>
> > + Radios in all tow ships and sailplanes (SSA recommendation to all
> > members)
>
> > + Communication check before any tow (SSA recommendation to all
> > members)
>
> > + Training changes (SSA recommendation to all members)
>
> > + Other safety items/areas?
>
> > Any SSA directors rading this, what do you think?
>
> > JJ Sinclair
>
> Sadly, the list of accidents is even worse as there was also a crash
> and fatality in a Taurus motorglider on July 8th north of Durango, CO.
> Safety down days are very common in the military and may be a very
> good way to reinforce safety & proper operating procedures...
> Thx - Renny- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Like in so many crashes, there were a number of factors involved in
the Tarus crash. I flew with the pilot numerous times over the last
decade and also several weeks before the crash, talked with about 1/2
dozen witnesses, and helped put the wreckage back into the trailer.

There is a very worthwhile book designed for the business community
that has much that applies to the soaring community, titled WILL YOUR
NEXT MISTAKE BE FATAL – AVOIDING THE CHAIN OF MISTAKES THAT CAN
DESTROY YOUR ORGANIZATION By Robert E. Mittelstaedt, Jr. 2005.
There are several comments in it that which are very fitting:
p. 107 “It is impossible to legislate or regulate judgement”

p. 106 “Poor decision-making conditioned by previous experience can
kill.” I relate this to how some sailplane pilots may stick their
necks out because they have gotten away with dangerous behavior
before.

P. 182 "The aviation accident classification known as “controlled
flight into terrain” (CFIT) is among the most persistent. NTSB
statistics show that you are 20 times more likely to have a CFIT
accident than a collision with another aircraft in flight."

The gas powered Tarus is terribly underpowered for mountain flight.
So underpowered that the pilot and I agreed he should not take
passengers with him in it again. He had an electric Tarus on order,
but its delivery was months behind schedule. The pilot was far more
of a motor pilot than a glider pilot and often restarted in the air,
often over unlandable territory (a cardinal sin amongst most self
launching glider folks). He was also used to flying a Ximango, which
had far more power. And, there were so many other contributing
factors involved. In a nutshell - pilot error and it was just his
time to go. Anyone interested in all the other factors, send me a
personal email.

Bob
19

[2G]

On Jul 24, 8:01*pm, Bob > wrote:
> On Jul 24, 7:05*pm, Renny > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 24, 6:33*pm, JJ Sinclair > wrote:
>
> > > Well, it's been quite a month so far, hasn't it? A 200 foot "practice"
> > > rope break resulting in crash. A recently purchased old wooden glider
> > > where the spoilers came open and weren't noticed except by the tow
> > > pilot who gave the 'check your aircraft' signal and this was
> > > misintereperted to mean 'release now'. A couple of broken birds at
> > > Logan and a crashed ASW-20 near Lone Pine, Ca.
>
> > > Let's just suppose the SSA was a military organization (Army Division,
> > > Navy Carrier or Air Force Wing) what do you think they would do with 3
> > > fatalities, 2 seriously injured and 5 broken birds in just over 3
> > > weeks?
>
> > > I believe any of these organizations would call for a STAND DOWN to
> > > review everything they were doing that related in any way to the safe
> > > operation of their aircraft. The SSA doesn't have the authority to
> > > stop anything, but they do have the authority and responsibility to
> > > call for a review of everything we're doing that relates in any way to
> > > the safe operation of the US glider fleet:
>
> > > + Minimum safe altitude to practice rope brakes (SSA recommendation to
> > > all members)
>
> > > + Tow signal review, one two, all? (SSA recommendation to all members)
>
> > > + Radios in all tow ships and sailplanes (SSA recommendation to all
> > > members)
>
> > > + Communication check before any tow (SSA recommendation to all
> > > members)
>
> > > + Training changes (SSA recommendation to all members)
>
> > > + Other safety items/areas?
>
> > > Any SSA directors rading this, what do you think?
>
> > > JJ Sinclair
>
> > Sadly, the list of accidents is even worse as there was also a crash
> > and fatality in a Taurus motorglider on July 8th north of Durango, CO.
> > Safety down days are very common in the military and may be a very
> > good way to reinforce safety & proper operating procedures...
> > Thx - Renny- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Like in so many crashes, there were a number of factors involved in
> the Tarus crash. *I flew with the pilot numerous times over the last
> decade and also several weeks before the crash, talked with about 1/2
> dozen witnesses, and helped put the wreckage back into the trailer.
>
> There is a very worthwhile book designed for thebusinesscommunity
> that has much that applies to the soaring community, titled *WILL YOUR
> NEXT MISTAKE BE FATAL – AVOIDING THE CHAIN OF MISTAKES THAT CAN
> DESTROY YOUR ORGANIZATION *By Robert E. Mittelstaedt, Jr. * 2005.
> There are several comments in it that which are very fitting:
> p. 107 “It is impossible to legislate or regulate judgement”
>
> p. 106 “Poor decision-making conditioned by previous experience can
> kill.” *I relate this to how some sailplane pilots may stick their
> necks out because they have gotten away with dangerous behavior
> before.
>
> P. 182 *"The aviation accident classification known as “controlled
> flight into terrain” (CFIT) is among the most persistent. *NTSB
> statistics show that you are 20 times more likely to have a CFIT
> accident than a collision with another aircraft in flight."
>
> The gas powered Tarus is terribly underpowered for mountain flight.
> So underpowered that the pilot and I agreed he should not take
> passengers with him in it again. *He had an electric Tarus on order,
> but its delivery was months behind schedule. *The pilot was far more
> of a motor pilot than a glider pilot and often restarted in the air,
> often over unlandable territory (a cardinal sin amongst most self
> launching glider folks). *He was also used to flying a Ximango, which
> had far more power. * And, there were so many other contributing
> factors involved. *In a nutshell - pilot error and it was just his
> time to go. *Anyone interested in all the other factors, send me a
> personal email.
>
> Bob
> 19

I keep on hearing this "stand down" bs when in reality we should
"stand up" and fly more, not less. Low proficiency is a proven cause
of accidents. If I feel unfit to fly, I don't fly, not because someone
else told me not to. We are not the military and should not pretend
that we are.

Tom

[Ventus_a]

On Jul 24, 7:05*pm, Renny wrote:
On Jul 24, 6:33*pm, JJ Sinclair wrote:





Well, it's been quite a month so far, hasn't it? A 200 foot "practice"
rope break resulting in crash. A recently purchased old wooden glider
where the spoilers came open and weren't noticed except by the tow
pilot who gave the 'check your aircraft' signal and this was
misintereperted to mean 'release now'. A couple of broken birds at
Logan and a crashed ASW-20 near Lone Pine, Ca.

Let's just suppose the SSA was a military organization (Army Division,
Navy Carrier or Air Force Wing) what do you think they would do with 3
fatalities, 2 seriously injured and 5 broken birds in just over 3
weeks?

I believe any of these organizations would call for a STAND DOWN to
review everything they were doing that related in any way to the safe
operation of their aircraft. The SSA doesn't have the authority to
stop anything, but they do have the authority and responsibility to
call for a review of everything we're doing that relates in any way to
the safe operation of the US glider fleet:

+ Minimum safe altitude to practice rope brakes (SSA recommendation to
all members)

+ Tow signal review, one two, all? (SSA recommendation to all members)

+ Radios in all tow ships and sailplanes (SSA recommendation to all
members)

+ Communication check before any tow (SSA recommendation to all
members)

+ Training changes (SSA recommendation to all members)

+ Other safety items/areas?

Any SSA directors rading this, what do you think?

JJ Sinclair

Sadly, the list of accidents is even worse as there was also a crash
and fatality in a Taurus motorglider on July 8th north of Durango, CO.
Safety down days are very common in the military and may be a very
good way to reinforce safety & proper operating procedures...
Thx - Renny- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Like in so many crashes, there were a number of factors involved in
the Tarus crash. I flew with the pilot numerous times over the last
decade and also several weeks before the crash, talked with about 1/2
dozen witnesses, and helped put the wreckage back into the trailer.

There is a very worthwhile book designed for the business community
that has much that applies to the soaring community, titled WILL YOUR
NEXT MISTAKE BE FATAL – AVOIDING THE CHAIN OF MISTAKES THAT CAN
DESTROY YOUR ORGANIZATION By Robert E. Mittelstaedt, Jr. 2005.
There are several comments in it that which are very fitting:
p. 107 “It is impossible to legislate or regulate judgement”

p. 106 “Poor decision-making conditioned by previous experience can
kill.” I relate this to how some sailplane pilots may stick their
necks out because they have gotten away with dangerous behavior
before.

P. 182 "The aviation accident classification known as “controlled
flight into terrain” (CFIT) is among the most persistent. NTSB
statistics show that you are 20 times more likely to have a CFIT
accident than a collision with another aircraft in flight."

The gas powered Tarus is terribly underpowered for mountain flight.
So underpowered that the pilot and I agreed he should not take
passengers with him in it again. He had an electric Tarus on order,
but its delivery was months behind schedule. The pilot was far more
of a motor pilot than a glider pilot and often restarted in the air,
often over unlandable territory (a cardinal sin amongst most self
launching glider folks). He was also used to flying a Ximango, which
had far more power. And, there were so many other contributing
factors involved. In a nutshell - pilot error and it was just his
time to go. Anyone interested in all the other factors, send me a
personal email.

Bob
19

Hi all

Some may have seen this already but it is quite a thought provoking article by Martin Hellman on complacency and how we can be lulled into unsafe practices in soaring. Well worth reading

http://ee.stanford.edu/~hellman/soaring/PASCO_2007_talk.html

Cheers
Colin