Advice on flying Pitts with Haigh Locking Tailwheel

[Ditch]

Hey all,
Here's the deal. I am going to be ferrying a Pitts S-1S from Florida to New
York next week. This airplane is equipped with a Haigh locking tailwheel. I
have about 800 hours in various models of Pitts (S-2A, S-2B, S-1C and S-1S) but
have never flown one with a locking tailwheel. I have flown airplanes with
locking tailwheels, just not a light plane.
Does anyone out there have any advice on how to handle this one? I'm not sure
what to think. I have heard good things and terrible things about this system.
And, looking back on it...I know 5 pilots that have flown Pitts S-1's with the
locking tailwheel...4 of them wrecked on landing rollout (And having flown with
all of them, they weren't crappy pilots...all had Pitts experience and a good
amount of tailwheel time). Crap...now I am getting nervous. :)




-John
*You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or North
American*

[Ron]

To show my ignorance, what kind of tailwheel do most Pitts have if not
locking. If they don't lock, how are they 'steered', brakes alone? I have
only about 200 hours tailwheel time (T-18, Champ, and Kitfox), all have had
locking tailwheels, and all intimidate me. The Kitfox is a trainer for my
Noon Patrol Nieuport-ll.

Thanks, Ron

"Ditch" > wrote in message
...
> Hey all,
> Here's the deal. I am going to be ferrying a Pitts S-1S from Florida to
New
> York next week. This airplane is equipped with a Haigh locking tailwheel.
I
> have about 800 hours in various models of Pitts (S-2A, S-2B, S-1C and
S-1S) but
> have never flown one with a locking tailwheel. I have flown airplanes with
> locking tailwheels, just not a light plane.
> Does anyone out there have any advice on how to handle this one? I'm not
sure
> what to think. I have heard good things and terrible things about this
system.
> And, looking back on it...I know 5 pilots that have flown Pitts S-1's with
the
> locking tailwheel...4 of them wrecked on landing rollout (And having flown
with
> all of them, they weren't crappy pilots...all had Pitts experience and a
good
> amount of tailwheel time). Crap...now I am getting nervous. :)
>
>
>
>
> -John
> *You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or
North
> American*

[EDR]

In article >, Ditch
> wrote:

The Haigh has a lever in the cockpit to lock/unlock the tailwheel.
When taking off, after aligning the aircraft with the centerline, the
lever is placed in the locked position and directional control is with
the rudders.
On approach to landing, the lever is checked to be in the locked
position. Landing roll is accomplished with the tailwheel in the locked
position and directional control is maintained with the rudder and
brakes. When the aircraft has slowed sufficiently is coming up on a
turn, the lever is placed in the unlocked position.
The Haigh tailwheel extends about 18inches aft of where the factory
tailwheel contacts the ground, creating a longer arm to improve
longitudinal stability.

[Jerry Guy]

Ron,
It's not a swiveling tailwheel that locks itself when centered ala
scott;maule. It's full swiveling like a grocery cart caster (with a
smaller wheel!) that locks rigid, centered when activated. I believe
the idea was to keep side loads from castering the tailwheel on landing.
The tough part was remembering to lock/unlock the thing. There's a
reason competition aerobatic aircraft don't have retractable gear!

Jerry

Ron wrote:
> To show my ignorance, what kind of tailwheel do most Pitts have if not
> locking. If they don't lock, how are they 'steered', brakes alone? I have
> only about 200 hours tailwheel time (T-18, Champ, and Kitfox), all have had
> locking tailwheels, and all intimidate me. The Kitfox is a trainer for my
> Noon Patrol Nieuport-ll.
>
> Thanks, Ron
>
> "Ditch" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Hey all,
>>Here's the deal. I am going to be ferrying a Pitts S-1S from Florida to
>
> New
>
>>York next week. This airplane is equipped with a Haigh locking tailwheel.
>
> I
>
>>have about 800 hours in various models of Pitts (S-2A, S-2B, S-1C and
>
> S-1S) but
>
>>have never flown one with a locking tailwheel. I have flown airplanes with
>>locking tailwheels, just not a light plane.
>>Does anyone out there have any advice on how to handle this one? I'm not
>
> sure
>
>>what to think. I have heard good things and terrible things about this
>
> system.
>
>>And, looking back on it...I know 5 pilots that have flown Pitts S-1's with
>
> the
>
>>locking tailwheel...4 of them wrecked on landing rollout (And having flown
>
> with
>
>>all of them, they weren't crappy pilots...all had Pitts experience and a
>
> good
>
>>amount of tailwheel time). Crap...now I am getting nervous. :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-John
>>*You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or
>
> North
>
>>American*
>
>
>

[Ron]

My thanks to Jerry & EDR for explaining this to me.

That setup sure wouldn't work on my Nieuport because the rudder has so
little authority.

Ron Carroll

"Ron" <no one @home.com> wrote in message
...
> To show my ignorance, what kind of tailwheel do most Pitts have if not
> locking. If they don't lock, how are they 'steered', brakes alone? I
have
> only about 200 hours tailwheel time (T-18, Champ, and Kitfox), all have
had
> locking tailwheels, and all intimidate me. The Kitfox is a trainer for my
> Noon Patrol Nieuport-ll.
>
> Thanks, Ron
>
> "Ditch" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hey all,
> > Here's the deal. I am going to be ferrying a Pitts S-1S from Florida to
> New
> > York next week. This airplane is equipped with a Haigh locking
tailwheel.
> I
> > have about 800 hours in various models of Pitts (S-2A, S-2B, S-1C and
> S-1S) but
> > have never flown one with a locking tailwheel. I have flown airplanes
with
> > locking tailwheels, just not a light plane.
> > Does anyone out there have any advice on how to handle this one? I'm not
> sure
> > what to think. I have heard good things and terrible things about this
> system.
> > And, looking back on it...I know 5 pilots that have flown Pitts S-1's
with
> the
> > locking tailwheel...4 of them wrecked on landing rollout (And having
flown
> with
> > all of them, they weren't crappy pilots...all had Pitts experience and a
> good
> > amount of tailwheel time). Crap...now I am getting nervous. :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -John
> > *You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or
> North
> > American*
>
>

[EDR]

In article >, Jerry Guy
> wrote:

> Ron,
> It's not a swiveling tailwheel that locks itself when centered ala
> scott;maule. It's full swiveling like a grocery cart caster (with a
> smaller wheel!) that locks rigid, centered when activated. I believe
> the idea was to keep side loads from castering the tailwheel on landing.
> The tough part was remembering to lock/unlock the thing. There's a
> reason competition aerobatic aircraft don't have retractable gear!


Except for Ray Williams Pitts RG!

[Martin Morgan]

My S1-S has a locking tailwheel and I've flown Pitts' with and without.

It works well so relax. Just remember to check that it is locked after
lining up for take off but before commencing the roll. And as previously
mentioned check again before landing.

The only time I have nearly been caught out is when still rolling a bit
quick and turning for the taxiway (you can usually turn a little while
it is locked) I released it to speed up the turn. Did it ever speed up
the turn!!! (So make sure you are slow when you release it)

The upside of this system is that it is a little easier to keep straight
on the runway. The only downside I can see is that taxiing (esp. with a
quatering tailwind) is a pain.

Most of the Pitts' that I have flown where more difficult to keep
straight than they should have been not because of tailwheel type but
because they had toe in, but that is another story...

Martin
Pitts S1-S


Ditch wrote:
> Hey all,
> Here's the deal. I am going to be ferrying a Pitts S-1S from Florida to New
> York next week. This airplane is equipped with a Haigh locking tailwheel. I
> have about 800 hours in various models of Pitts (S-2A, S-2B, S-1C and S-1S) but
> have never flown one with a locking tailwheel. I have flown airplanes with
> locking tailwheels, just not a light plane.
> Does anyone out there have any advice on how to handle this one? I'm not sure
> what to think. I have heard good things and terrible things about this system.
> And, looking back on it...I know 5 pilots that have flown Pitts S-1's with the
> locking tailwheel...4 of them wrecked on landing rollout (And having flown with
> all of them, they weren't crappy pilots...all had Pitts experience and a good
> amount of tailwheel time). Crap...now I am getting nervous. :)
>
>
>
>
> -John
> *You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or North
> American*

[Morgans]

"Martin Morgan" > wrote

> Most of the Pitts' that I have flown where more difficult to keep
> straight than they should have been not because of tailwheel type but
> because they had toe in, but that is another story...
>
> Martin
> Pitts S1-S
>
Should it be toe in, or toe out?
--
Jim (ducking while grinning) in NC

[RR Urban]

"Morgans" wrote:

>> Most of the Pitts' that I have flown where more difficult to keep
>> straight than they should have been not because of tailwheel type but
>> because they had toe in, but that is another story...
>>
>> Martin
>> Pitts S1-S
>>
>Should it be toe in, or toe out?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

#$%^&* INSTIGATING SHMUCK !!!!!!!!!


Barnyard BOb - none of the above

[Tim Ward]

"RR Urban" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Morgans" wrote:
>
> >> Most of the Pitts' that I have flown where more difficult to keep
> >> straight than they should have been not because of tailwheel type but
> >> because they had toe in, but that is another story...
> >>
> >> Martin
> >> Pitts S1-S
> >>
> >Should it be toe in, or toe out?
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> #$%^&* INSTIGATING SHMUCK !!!!!!!!!
>
>
> Barnyard BOb - none of the above

Now, Bob.
I understand you had an HP for awhile. That's a taildragger. Did you run
toe in or toe out on that bird?

(Another grin, another duck, another run)

Tim Ward

[Prglgw]

the haigh is a nice tailwheel on an S1, it makes landing very docile, the note
re watching the speed when unlocking it in a turn is valid, but they do have a
little give when locked anyway.
oh, and Toe out, without a doubt!

[Martin Morgan]

RR Urban wrote:
> "Morgans" wrote:
>
>
>>>Most of the Pitts' that I have flown where more difficult to keep
>>>straight than they should have been not because of tailwheel type but
>>>because they had toe in, but that is another story...
>>>
>>>Martin
>>>Pitts S1-S
>>>
>>
>>Should it be toe in, or toe out?
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> #$%^&* INSTIGATING SHMUCK !!!!!!!!!
>
>
> Barnyard BOb - none of the above

Geez Barnyard, I don't know you but I reckon the expletive is a bit much.

I'm sure you think it shouldn't be mentioned because you obviously know
the answer. It has probably been done to death in this newsgroup as
well, I wouldn't know as I'm new here.

I mentioned it BECAUSE I figured you all would know!!

However, obviously someone doesn't (or even if they do there will be
someone else who doesn't). And I'm happy to enlighten them because if I
hadn't had to work it out the hard way my life would have been a lot
more pleasant for some time.

So, to the answer.

Conventional wisdom (which seems to be lacking in many LAME's) is to use
zero degrees of camber for a tail dragger just as our erstwhile Barnyard
mentioned. However, using a little toe out can make the a/c more stable
on the ground as it will tend to straighten itself. So, a little toe out
can be good, a very little toe in can make the a/c a real pig to handle.

Darrol Stinton in "The Design of the Aeroplane" suggests that up to 1 to
2 degrees of toe out can be used for a difficult tail dragger. (Note
that he also suggests that zero degrees would be normal)

I used half a degree (in three point attitude) for my Pitts (which
previously had toe in). The change was dramatic! Except for the swing
from applying power the only time it changed heading on the ground was
if I pushed a peddle.

The Pitts in question had previously been owned by an excellent pilot
(advanced level champion, airline captain, yadda yadda) that had never
been seen to make a good landing in it.


I'm sure Barnyard doesn't want any more mention of this subject, so I
won't say anymore. If you disagree with what I said, fine. If that is
the case I'd suggest you at least read the Darrol Stinton book
mentioned. It is a standard text for many aero engineers and I have made
2 a/c a joy to land using his advice.


Martin Morgan
Pitts S1-S

[RR Urban]

>>>Should it be toe in, or toe out? - <Morgans>
>>
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>> #$%^&* INSTIGATING SHMUCK !!!!!!!!!


>
<majority of rant snipped>

>I'm sure Barnyard doesn't want any more mention of this subject, so I
>won't say anymore. If you disagree with what I said, fine. If that is
>the case I'd suggest you at least read the Darrol Stinton book
>mentioned. It is a standard text for many aero engineers and I have made
>2 a/c a joy to land using his advice.
>
>
>Martin Morgan
>Pitts S1-S
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

FWIW...
'Barnyard' cares nothing about controlling this forum.

Additionally --
He has been a TOE OUT GUY, forever...
enjoyed and AGREED with your post to the max !

........

The 'SHMUCK' thing was directed SOLEY at 'MORGANS'...
which I have, shall we say, a very special relationship. :o)
He asked for a zinger, so I gave it to HIM.

My apologies for you getting caught up in the
confusion and my 'act' with... 'Morgans in NC'.
He is likely laughing his ass off at this faux pas.


Barnyard BOb -- over 50 years of successful flight

[Jerry Guy]

I'll reiterate, I've never flown a Pitts with this tailwheel. I
understand it was very cool at one time to have the tailwheel unlock by
connecting to the trim bar, so that it would only unlock with full nose
down trim.

Never even seen one on a Pitts in real life, but , my very well known
Pitts mechanic has one as a caster on his gate!

Jerry

Prglgw wrote:
> the haigh is a nice tailwheel on an S1, it makes landing very docile, the note
> re watching the speed when unlocking it in a turn is valid, but they do have a
> little give when locked anyway.
> oh, and Toe out, without a doubt!

[RR Urban]

"Morgans" wrote:

>
>"RR Urban" > wrote
>
>> The 'SHMUCK' thing was directed SOLEY at 'MORGANS'...
>
>> He is likely laughing his ass off at this faux pas.
>
>> Barnyard BOb -- over 50 years of successful flight
>
>
>Of "THIS" you are 100% right!
>
>I nearly peed my pants, laughing!
>
>And of course, you know that my comment was drected SOLEY at you.
>
>Hey, we might have a routine, here. :-)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

OTOH....
It might have been more fun (FOR YOU) -
to just play stoopid and let me swing in the
breeze, rather than come to my rescue as
you have. <g>


Barnyard BOb --

[Morgans]

"RR Urban" > wrote

> The 'SHMUCK' thing was directed SOLEY at 'MORGANS'...

> He is likely laughing his ass off at this faux pas.

> Barnyard BOb -- over 50 years of successful flight


Of "THIS" you are 100% right!

I nearly peed my pants, laughing!

And of course, you know that my comment was drected SOLEY at you.

Hey, we might have a routine, here. :-)

--
Jim in NC

[Morgans]

"RR Urban" > wrote
>
> OTOH....
> It might have been more fun (FOR YOU) -
> to just play stoopid and let me swing in the
> breeze, rather than come to my rescue as
> you have. <g>
>
>
> Barnyard BOb --


Naaa

Never has it been my intent, to make you look stooopid.

Foolish, yes;-)
--
Jim in NC

[Big John]

One bit of advice. After lining up and locking prior to take off, do
not unlock in the air for any reason.

Theory. You want locked for landing. You can use rudder (and brake)
to align the tail wheel so it will lock prior to take off. If you
unlock in th air there is no way to assure you that tail wheel is
locked prior to landing.

You should have no problem using it. On landing use rudder (and brakes
as required) to keep straight until at taxi speed and you unlock tail
wheel to clear runway.

You didn't mention if the tail wheel you will have is a steering one
or just locking (straight ahead). Each type is no problem. JUST STAY
AHEAD OF THE AIRCRAFT and don't land in any 50 mph cross winds <G>

Have a nice fight.

Big John



On 21 Dec 2003 10:22:52 GMT, (Ditch) wrote:

>Hey all,
>Here's the deal. I am going to be ferrying a Pitts S-1S from Florida to New
>York next week. This airplane is equipped with a Haigh locking tailwheel. I
>have about 800 hours in various models of Pitts (S-2A, S-2B, S-1C and S-1S) but
>have never flown one with a locking tailwheel. I have flown airplanes with
>locking tailwheels, just not a light plane.
>Does anyone out there have any advice on how to handle this one? I'm not sure
>what to think. I have heard good things and terrible things about this system.
>And, looking back on it...I know 5 pilots that have flown Pitts S-1's with the
>locking tailwheel...4 of them wrecked on landing rollout (And having flown with
>all of them, they weren't crappy pilots...all had Pitts experience and a good
>amount of tailwheel time). Crap...now I am getting nervous. :)
>
>
>
>
>-John
>*You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or North
>American*

[zxc]

uk
Big John > wrote in message >...
> One bit of advice. After lining up and locking prior to take off, do
> not unlock in the air for any reason.
>
> Theory. You want locked for landing. You can use rudder (and brake)
> to align the tail wheel so it will lock prior to take off. If you
> unlock in th air there is no way to assure you that tail wheel is
> locked prior to landing.
>
> You should have no problem using it. On landing use rudder (and brakes
> as required) to keep straight until at taxi speed and you unlock tail
> wheel to clear runway.
>
> You didn't mention if the tail wheel you will have is a steering one
> or just locking (straight ahead). Each type is no problem. JUST STAY
> AHEAD OF THE AIRCRAFT and don't land in any 50 mph cross winds <G>
>
> Have a nice fight.
>
> Big John
>
>
>
> On 21 Dec 2003 10:22:52 GMT, (Ditch) wrote:
>
> >Hey all,
> >Here's the deal. I am going to be ferrying a Pitts S-1S from Florida to New
> >York next week. This airplane is equipped with a Haigh locking tailwheel. I
> >have about 800 hours in various models of Pitts (S-2A, S-2B, S-1C and S-1S) but
> >have never flown one with a locking tailwheel. I have flown airplanes with
> >locking tailwheels, just not a light plane.
> >Does anyone out there have any advice on how to handle this one? I'm not sure
> >what to think. I have heard good things and terrible things about this system.
> >And, looking back on it...I know 5 pilots that have flown Pitts S-1's with the
> >locking tailwheel...4 of them wrecked on landing rollout (And having flown with
> >all of them, they weren't crappy pilots...all had Pitts experience and a good
> >amount of tailwheel time). Crap...now I am getting nervous. :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-John
> >*You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or North
> >American*

[Big John]

zxc

----clip----


>> >-John
>> >*You are nothing until you have flown a Douglas, Lockheed, Grumman or North
>> >American*

My God. Have you really soloed all of those types?

In addition to above, can you add these to your Vita?

Howard
Taylor
Piper
Rearwin
Luscombe
Fairchild
Vultee
Beech
Northrop
Aeronca
Cessna
Pilatus
DeHavilland
Pilatus
DeHavilland
Bell
Curtis


Big John
Pilot - ROC Air Force.