Devin kicked out of junior worlds. [Archive]

S. Murry

August 25th 11, 10:10 PM

Justin,

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here. It's not like
Devin is 10 years old or something. He's 24, and a CFI. He's also
representing all of us (or at least those of us in the USA). All these
things mean he's expected to exercise better judgment than he did
(apparently, according to the report, which as far as I am concerned is
still a "rumor" at this point) and since he's representing soaring in the
USA, I think we're entitled to know why he got kicked out (again, assuming
the report is true).

As a practical matter, your suggestion that his parents will discipline
him seems kind of unlikely for a 24 year old. He's old enough to be a
fully responsible member of the soaring community, with all that entails.

Like Devin, I've been flying gliders since I was 12, and flew gliders and
power all through my teens, 20's and 30's. I've also been known to have a
few drinks from time to time, and occasionally even more than "a few".
Before I had kids, I also partied 'til the sun came out from time to
time. However, in all that time, the one thing I've been absolutely
meticulous about is making sure that drinking and flying don't mix.
Particularly in competition. I'd expect someone at as high a level as
Devin has achieved to exercise judgment at least as good as this.

Note that I am not implying that he was flying drunk. But drinking 'til
4AM the day before a competition is irresponsible even if he would have
somehow been sober (but tired and hungover) by launch time.

Finally, the issue with his reported disdain for the coaching staff is
also relevant to all of us and certainly is at least as worthy of public
ridicule as many of the other topics reported on RAS.

--Stefan

On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 14:59:20 -0500, Justin Rizor >
wrote:

> On Aug 24, 6:45 pm, Mitch Hudson > wrote:
>> Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior
>> Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and general
>> disrespect for the coaching staff. It is unfortunate that such a
>> potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the
>> U.S. team due to his drinking problem. For those of you who wondered
>> why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why.
>>
>> Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from the
>> contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots
>> there.
>>
>> EX
>
> And a ****ty decision on your part to post it too the world! If
> someone wanted to know, they could of found out on there own. But to
> expose a youth to this type of embarrasment is totally uncalled for.
> I'm sure the parents of Devin will take care of this issue, cause as
> the father of 3 kids I know I would!!!!
y

GB[_5_]

August 26th 11, 03:20 AM

On Aug 25, 7:16*am, " >
wrote:
> On Aug 24, 6:45*pm, Mitch Hudson > wrote:
>
> > Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior
> > Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and general
> > disrespect for the coaching staff. *It is unfortunate that such a
> > potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the
> > U.S. team due to his drinking problem. *For those of you who wondered
> > why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why.
>
> > Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from the
> > contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots
> > there.
>
> > EX
>
> Good on the U.S. Team management.
>
> GKemp

Shame on you Mitch Hudson,

I was not aware that this discussion group could be used to embarrass,
slander, and humiliate another member. First of all Mitch you were not
there. I can only assume that you got your information from your
friend who had a major disagreement with Devin at the Junior Worlds.
The facts are unimportant for this discussion.
I am not one of Devin's drinking buddies, I am his 71 year old friend
and co-worker.
Mitch, the only thing you have accomplished with your post is hurting
Devin, his family and his friends.

Gabe Bourbeau
Minden NV

John Cochrane[_2_]

August 26th 11, 04:22 AM

On Aug 25, 4:10*pm, "S. Murry" > wrote:
> Justin,
>
> I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here. *>
> > And a ****ty decision on your part to post it too the world! If
> > someone wanted to know, they could of found out on there own. But to
> > expose a youth to this type of embarrasment is totally uncalled for.
> > I'm sure the parents of Devin will take care of this issue, cause as
> > the father of 3 kids I know I would!!!!
>

I agree this perhaps shouldn't be on r.a.s. Because it absolutely
should have been on the U.S. team website.

When you fly on the U.S. team you are representing U.S. soaring.
You're not just flying for yourself, You benefit from large financial
contributions from many supporters, and most of all from the dedicated
work of many volunteers. You are accountable to all those people.

Sorry, but with that you lose a certain amount of privacy. Your
actions at the world contest are public. If a US team pilot does not
fly, the many supporters deserve to know what happened. Same for
landing out on the first day, losing the keys to the car, or any of
the other stupid things pilots might do. If that's embarrassing,
tough. If you want privacy for your screwups, don't fly on the US
team.

John Cochrane

Walt Connelly

August 26th 11, 02:29 PM

;781455']On Aug 25, 7:16*am, "
wrote:
On Aug 24, 6:45*pm, Mitch Hudson wrote:

Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior
Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and general
disrespect for the coaching staff. *It is unfortunate that such a
potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the
U.S. team due to his drinking problem. *For those of you who wondered
why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why.

Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from the
contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots
there.

EX

Good on the U.S. Team management.

GKemp

Shame on you Mitch Hudson,

I was not aware that this discussion group could be used to embarrass,
slander, and humiliate another member. First of all Mitch you were not
there. I can only assume that you got your information from your
friend who had a major disagreement with Devin at the Junior Worlds.
The facts are unimportant for this discussion.
I am not one of Devin's drinking buddies, I am his 71 year old friend
and co-worker.
Mitch, the only thing you have accomplished with your post is hurting
Devin, his family and his friends.

Gabe Bourbeau
Minden NV

Gabe,

Respectfully, while this post may well embarrass and humiliate Devin, it would only be slander if it was untrue. We are all assuming a lot, it would be good if there was some sort of official word from the US team as to the reason for his dismissal. If it is true, I would hope that he would be embarrassed and humiliated, that might go a long way towards improving his decision making abilities. Drinking 'till 4 AM the day of an event is not a smart thing to do.

As a 71 year old friend and co worker I hope you will try to give him the benefit of your lifetime of experience. Unfortunately it has been my experience that youth fails to listen to the older, more experienced crowd until it's too late. We have had a number of fatalities in the last few weeks in the soaring community from various causes, most of which are to some degree associated with poor decision making.

What Mitch has done might be the best thing that could happen to Devin. It appears to me that someone needs to get his attention. Don't be an enabler by dismissing his actions. An old Air Force Colonel gave me a good kick in the ass once, I learned a lot from his guidance.

Walt

GB[_5_]

August 26th 11, 04:02 PM

On Aug 26, 6:29*am, Walt Connelly <Walt.Connelly.
> wrote:
> 'GB[_5_ Wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > ;781455']On Aug 25, 7:16*am, "
> >
> > wrote:-
> > On Aug 24, 6:45*pm, Mitch Hudson wrote:
> > -
> > Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior
> > Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and
> > general
> > disrespect for the coaching staff. *It is unfortunate that such a
> > potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the
> > U.S. team due to his drinking problem. *For those of you who wondered
> > why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why.-
> > -
> > Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from
> > the
> > contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots
> > there.-
> > -
> > EX-
>
> > Good on the U.S. Team management.
>
> > GKemp-
>
> > Shame on you Mitch Hudson,
>
> > I was not aware that this discussion group could be used to embarrass,
> > slander, and humiliate another member. First of all Mitch you were not
> > there. I can only assume that you got your information from your
> > friend who had a major disagreement with Devin at the Junior Worlds.
> > The facts are unimportant for this discussion.
> > I am not one of Devin's drinking buddies, I am his 71 year old friend
> > and co-worker.
> > Mitch, the only thing you have accomplished with your post is hurting
> > Devin, his family and his friends.
>
> > Gabe Bourbeau
> > Minden NV
>
> Gabe,
>
> Respectfully, while this post may well embarrass and humiliate
> Devin, it would only be slander if it was untrue. *We are all assuming a
> lot, it would be good if there was some sort of official word from the
> US team as to the reason for his dismissal. *If it is true, I would hope
> that he would be embarrassed and humiliated, that might go a long way
> towards improving his decision making abilities. *Drinking 'till 4 AM
> the day of an event is not a smart thing to do.
>
> As a 71 year old friend and co worker I hope you will try to give
> him the benefit of your lifetime of experience. *Unfortunately it has
> been my experience that youth fails to listen to the older, more
> experienced crowd until it's too late. *We have had a number of
> fatalities in the last few weeks in the soaring community from various
> causes, most of which are to some degree associated with poor decision
> making. *
>
> What Mitch has done might be the best thing that could happen to
> Devin. It appears to me that someone needs to get his attention. * Don't
> be an enabler by dismissing his actions. An old Air Force Colonel gave
> me a good kick in the ass once, I learned a lot from his guidance.
>
> Walt
>
> --
> Walt Connelly

Walt,

There is a big difference between being an enabler and standing by
your friends.
The purpose of Mictch's post was not to help Devin.
This is not the proper venue to deal with this.
Gabe

Tim[_2_]

August 26th 11, 05:52 PM

>SNIP
> I agree this perhaps shouldn't be on *r.a.s. Because it absolutely
> should have been on the U.S. team website.
> SNIP
> John Cochrane

Has any official report of this situation been reported, in fact, by
the US Team?

I checked when this post first came out, but was able to find nothing.

Tim EY

Walt Connelly

August 26th 11, 09:18 PM

;781477']On Aug 26, 6:29*am, Walt Connelly Walt.Connelly.
wrote:
'GB[_5_ Wrote:

;781455']On Aug 25, 7:16*am, "

wrote:-
On Aug 24, 6:45*pm, Mitch Hudson wrote:
-
Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior
Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and
general
disrespect for the coaching staff. *It is unfortunate that such a
potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the
U.S. team due to his drinking problem. *For those of you who wondered
why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why.-
-
Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from
the
contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots
there.-
-
EX-

Good on the U.S. Team management.

GKemp-

Shame on you Mitch Hudson,

I was not aware that this discussion group could be used to embarrass,
slander, and humiliate another member. First of all Mitch you were not
there. I can only assume that you got your information from your
friend who had a major disagreement with Devin at the Junior Worlds.
The facts are unimportant for this discussion.
I am not one of Devin's drinking buddies, I am his 71 year old friend
and co-worker.
Mitch, the only thing you have accomplished with your post is hurting
Devin, his family and his friends.

Gabe Bourbeau
Minden NV

Gabe,

Respectfully, while this post may well embarrass and humiliate
Devin, it would only be slander if it was untrue. *We are all assuming a
lot, it would be good if there was some sort of official word from the
US team as to the reason for his dismissal. *If it is true, I would hope
that he would be embarrassed and humiliated, that might go a long way
towards improving his decision making abilities. *Drinking 'till 4 AM
the day of an event is not a smart thing to do.

As a 71 year old friend and co worker I hope you will try to give
him the benefit of your lifetime of experience. *Unfortunately it has
been my experience that youth fails to listen to the older, more
experienced crowd until it's too late. *We have had a number of
fatalities in the last few weeks in the soaring community from various
causes, most of which are to some degree associated with poor decision
making. *

What Mitch has done might be the best thing that could happen to
Devin. It appears to me that someone needs to get his attention. * Don't
be an enabler by dismissing his actions. An old Air Force Colonel gave
me a good kick in the ass once, I learned a lot from his guidance.

Walt

--
Walt Connelly

Walt,

There is a big difference between being an enabler and standing by
your friends.
The purpose of Mictch's post was not to help Devin.
This is not the proper venue to deal with this.
Gabe

Gabe,

You may be right regarding the purpose for Mitch's post, I do not know the personalities or relationships involved here. While I agree that there is a difference between being an enabler and standing by your friend, if I was his friend I sure as hell would be pulling him aside and telling him to get his act together if this story is true. Anyone who drinks until 4AM has a problem. That was immature, irresponsible and potentially dangerous. JMHO.

Walt

[email protected][_2_]

August 27th 11, 01:45 PM

Any other sport in the world with a junior class that includes 24 year
olds?
Given soaring pilots average age it may seem reasonable but it is also
funny/sad.

chris[_3_]

August 27th 11, 03:13 PM

On Aug 26, 9:29*am, Walt Connelly <Walt.Connelly.
> wrote:
> 'GB[_5_ Wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > ;781455']On Aug 25, 7:16*am, "
> >
> > wrote:-
> > On Aug 24, 6:45*pm, Mitch Hudson wrote:
> > -
> > Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior
> > Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and
> > general
> > disrespect for the coaching staff. *It is unfortunate that such a
> > potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the
> > U.S. team due to his drinking problem. *For those of you who wondered
> > why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why.-
> > -
> > Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from
> > the
> > contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots
> > there.-
> > -
> > EX-
>
> > Good on the U.S. Team management.
>
> > GKemp-
>
> > Shame on you Mitch Hudson,
>
> > I was not aware that this discussion group could be used to embarrass,
> > slander, and humiliate another member. First of all Mitch you were not
> > there. I can only assume that you got your information from your
> > friend who had a major disagreement with Devin at the Junior Worlds.
> > The facts are unimportant for this discussion.
> > I am not one of Devin's drinking buddies, I am his 71 year old friend
> > and co-worker.
> > Mitch, the only thing you have accomplished with your post is hurting
> > Devin, his family and his friends.
>
> > Gabe Bourbeau
> > Minden NV
>
> Gabe,
>
> Respectfully, while this post may well embarrass and humiliate
> Devin, it would only be slander if it was untrue. *We are all assuming a
> lot, it would be good if there was some sort of official word from the
> US team as to the reason for his dismissal. *If it is true, I would hope
> that he would be embarrassed and humiliated, that might go a long way
> towards improving his decision making abilities. *Drinking 'till 4 AM
> the day of an event is not a smart thing to do.
>
> As a 71 year old friend and co worker I hope you will try to give
> him the benefit of your lifetime of experience. *Unfortunately it has
> been my experience that youth fails to listen to the older, more
> experienced crowd until it's too late. *We have had a number of
> fatalities in the last few weeks in the soaring community from various
> causes, most of which are to some degree associated with poor decision
> making. *
>
> What Mitch has done might be the best thing that could happen to
> Devin. It appears to me that someone needs to get his attention. * Don't
> be an enabler by dismissing his actions. An old Air Force Colonel gave
> me a good kick in the ass once, I learned a lot from his guidance.
>
> Walt
>
> --
> Walt Connelly

As someone who was at the competition and one of the people who was up
at 4 in the morning I would like to chime in on the issue. There were
many pilots who stayed up late during the competition from many
different nations. When I saw Devin at the bar during the competition
he was acting responsibly and relatively low key. I also spotted the
US team captain up late and partying on most nights. I do not recall
seeing Devin up any later than 1am. In my opinion and a number of
team captains I spoke to was that the punishment was unnecessary and
we feel not embarrassed for Devin but the US soaring scene. I think
the original post is slanderous and full of hear say. Anyone who has
met Devin will know that he is a responsible young man who does like
to have some fun but can take care of himself.

Chris Gough, Canada Team Capatain 2011 JWGC

GB[_5_]

August 27th 11, 05:21 PM

On Aug 27, 7:13*am, chris > wrote:
> On Aug 26, 9:29*am, Walt Connelly <Walt.Connelly.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > 'GB[_5_ Wrote:
>
> > > ;781455']On Aug 25, 7:16*am, "
> > >
> > > wrote:-
> > > On Aug 24, 6:45*pm, Mitch Hudson wrote:
> > > -
> > > Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior
> > > Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and
> > > general
> > > disrespect for the coaching staff. *It is unfortunate that such a
> > > potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the
> > > U.S. team due to his drinking problem. *For those of you who wondered
> > > why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why.-
> > > -
> > > Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from
> > > the
> > > contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots
> > > there.-
> > > -
> > > EX-
>
> > > Good on the U.S. Team management.
>
> > > GKemp-
>
> > > Shame on you Mitch Hudson,
>
> > > I was not aware that this discussion group could be used to embarrass,
> > > slander, and humiliate another member. First of all Mitch you were not
> > > there. I can only assume that you got your information from your
> > > friend who had a major disagreement with Devin at the Junior Worlds.
> > > The facts are unimportant for this discussion.
> > > I am not one of Devin's drinking buddies, I am his 71 year old friend
> > > and co-worker.
> > > Mitch, the only thing you have accomplished with your post is hurting
> > > Devin, his family and his friends.
>
> > > Gabe Bourbeau
> > > Minden NV
>
> > Gabe,
>
> > Respectfully, while this post may well embarrass and humiliate
> > Devin, it would only be slander if it was untrue. *We are all assuming a
> > lot, it would be good if there was some sort of official word from the
> > US team as to the reason for his dismissal. *If it is true, I would hope
> > that he would be embarrassed and humiliated, that might go a long way
> > towards improving his decision making abilities. *Drinking 'till 4 AM
> > the day of an event is not a smart thing to do.
>
> > As a 71 year old friend and co worker I hope you will try to give
> > him the benefit of your lifetime of experience. *Unfortunately it has
> > been my experience that youth fails to listen to the older, more
> > experienced crowd until it's too late. *We have had a number of
> > fatalities in the last few weeks in the soaring community from various
> > causes, most of which are to some degree associated with poor decision
> > making. *
>
> > What Mitch has done might be the best thing that could happen to
> > Devin. It appears to me that someone needs to get his attention. * Don't
> > be an enabler by dismissing his actions. An old Air Force Colonel gave
> > me a good kick in the ass once, I learned a lot from his guidance.
>
> > Walt
>
> > --
> > Walt Connelly
>
> As someone who was at the competition and one of the people who was up
> at 4 in the morning I would like to chime in on the issue. *There were
> many pilots who stayed up late during the competition from many
> different nations. *When I saw Devin at the bar during the competition
> he was acting responsibly and relatively low key. *I also spotted the
> US team captain up late and partying on most nights. *I do not recall
> seeing Devin up any later than 1am. *In my opinion and a number of
> team captains I spoke to was that the punishment was unnecessary and
> we feel not embarrassed for Devin but the US soaring scene. *I think
> the original post is slanderous and full of hear say. *Anyone who has
> met Devin will know that he is a responsible young man who does like
> to have some fun but can take care of himself.
>
> Chris Gough, Canada Team Capatain 2011 JWGC

Why as everyone took the word of Mitch Hudson post as factual when he
was not there?? This is a major problem with our society of social
networking sites.
I am not a big fan of this site because of his kind of crap.

I am quite aware of Devin's shortcomings and will not discuss them
here.
We complain that our sport is too top heavy with old cranky guys like
me; then we are ready to throw one our most talented young members
under the bus. Anyone who as flown with Devin will tell you that he is
the very best X country instructor in the USA.
We all can learn something from each other regardless of our age. It
would be nice to see abit more support from this group towards our
young members and putting aside our personality differences.
Hang in there Devin, my friend, we will get through this.

Gabe Bourbeau
Minden NV

John Cochrane[_2_]

August 27th 11, 06:32 PM

> > Walt Connelly
>
> As someone who was at the competition and one of the people who was up
> at 4 in the morning I would like to chime in on the issue. *...

> Chris Gough, Canada Team Capatain 2011 JWGC

Good perspective.

The inevitable diffusion of rumors is all the more reason there should
be a post somewhere directly from the team captain, blogger, reporter
or whatever, explaining to the US team's many supporters what was
going on. Still nothing on the US team website.

John Cochrane

William Elliott

August 28th 11, 01:14 AM

On Aug 27, 7:32*pm, John Cochrane >
wrote:
> > > Walt Connelly
>
> > As someone who was at the competition and one of the people who was up
> > at 4 in the morning I would like to chime in on the issue. *...
> > Chris Gough, Canada Team Capatain 2011 JWGC
>
> Good perspective.
>
> The inevitable diffusion of rumors is all the more reason there should
> be a post somewhere directly from the team captain, blogger, reporter
> or whatever, explaining to the US team's many supporters what was
> going on. Still nothing on the US team website.
>
> John Cochrane

77[_2_]

August 28th 11, 02:13 PM

On Aug 27, 10:13*am, chris > wrote:
> On Aug 26, 9:29*am, Walt Connelly <Walt.Connelly.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > 'GB[_5_ Wrote:
>
> > > ;781455']On Aug 25, 7:16*am, "
> > >
> > > wrote:-
> > > On Aug 24, 6:45*pm, Mitch Hudson wrote:
> > > -
> > > Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior
> > > Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and
> > > general
> > > disrespect for the coaching staff. *It is unfortunate that such a
> > > potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the
> > > U.S. team due to his drinking problem. *For those of you who wondered
> > > why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why.-
> > > -
> > > Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from
> > > the
> > > contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots
> > > there.-
> > > -
> > > EX-
>
> > > Good on the U.S. Team management.
>
> > > GKemp-
>
> > > Shame on you Mitch Hudson,
>
> > > I was not aware that this discussion group could be used to embarrass,
> > > slander, and humiliate another member. First of all Mitch you were not
> > > there. I can only assume that you got your information from your
> > > friend who had a major disagreement with Devin at the Junior Worlds.
> > > The facts are unimportant for this discussion.
> > > I am not one of Devin's drinking buddies, I am his 71 year old friend
> > > and co-worker.
> > > Mitch, the only thing you have accomplished with your post is hurting
> > > Devin, his family and his friends.
>
> > > Gabe Bourbeau
> > > Minden NV
>
> > Gabe,
>
> > Respectfully, while this post may well embarrass and humiliate
> > Devin, it would only be slander if it was untrue. *We are all assuming a
> > lot, it would be good if there was some sort of official word from the
> > US team as to the reason for his dismissal. *If it is true, I would hope
> > that he would be embarrassed and humiliated, that might go a long way
> > towards improving his decision making abilities. *Drinking 'till 4 AM
> > the day of an event is not a smart thing to do.
>
> > As a 71 year old friend and co worker I hope you will try to give
> > him the benefit of your lifetime of experience. *Unfortunately it has
> > been my experience that youth fails to listen to the older, more
> > experienced crowd until it's too late. *We have had a number of
> > fatalities in the last few weeks in the soaring community from various
> > causes, most of which are to some degree associated with poor decision
> > making. *
>
> > What Mitch has done might be the best thing that could happen to
> > Devin. It appears to me that someone needs to get his attention. * Don't
> > be an enabler by dismissing his actions. An old Air Force Colonel gave
> > me a good kick in the ass once, I learned a lot from his guidance.
>
> > Walt
>
> > --
> > Walt Connelly
>
> As someone who was at the competition and one of the people who was up
> at 4 in the morning I would like to chime in on the issue. *There were
> many pilots who stayed up late during the competition from many
> different nations. *When I saw Devin at the bar during the competition
> he was acting responsibly and relatively low key. *I also spotted the
> US team captain up late and partying on most nights. *I do not recall
> seeing Devin up any later than 1am. *In my opinion and a number of
> team captains I spoke to was that the punishment was unnecessary and
> we feel not embarrassed for Devin but the US soaring scene. *I think
> the original post is slanderous and full of hear say. *Anyone who has
> met Devin will know that he is a responsible young man who does like
> to have some fun but can take care of himself.
>
> Chris Gough, Canada Team Capatain 2011 JWGC

I have known Devin since he came on the scene about 7 or 8 years ago.
I have been around him a lot. I have flown with him many times and
places. I have ALWAYS found him to be a responsible pilot and fine
young man. I was shocked when I read the first post. It just did not
sound like the Devin I know. Yes, he is a young man and likes to
party.However, the post made by Chirs Gough, Canadian Team Captain,
sounds more like it. Chris was there. As far as I know he is the only
one who was there among the dozen or so who have chimed in.

As I understand it, the original post came from someone who was not
there and who gave as his "outside source" a blog from a pilot or
pilots from the UK. I think it is very unfortunate that Devin's
reputation should be damaged by this kind of hearsay. This was a very
inappropriate thing to do.

I stand by Devin as a very fine young man....too bad he will have to
do a bit of rebuilding now but I am confident he will.

Jim Price

Sean Fidler

August 29th 11, 01:00 PM

Second...

[email protected]

August 29th 11, 01:33 PM

On Aug 29, 8:00*am, Sean Fidler > wrote:
> Second...

Third
UH

joesimmers

August 29th 11, 05:47 PM

Fourth...

Joe Simmers

Mike Mike Ground

August 29th 11, 07:53 PM

On Aug 28, 6:13*am, 77 > wrote:
> On Aug 27, 10:13*am, chris > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 26, 9:29*am, Walt Connelly <Walt.Connelly.
>
> > > wrote:
> > > 'GB[_5_ Wrote:
>
> > > > ;781455']On Aug 25, 7:16*am, "
> > > >
> > > > wrote:-
> > > > On Aug 24, 6:45*pm, Mitch Hudson wrote:
> > > > -
> > > > Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior
> > > > Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and
> > > > general
> > > > disrespect for the coaching staff. *It is unfortunate that such a
> > > > potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the
> > > > U.S. team due to his drinking problem. *For those of you who wondered
> > > > why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why.-
> > > > -
> > > > Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from
> > > > the
> > > > contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots
> > > > there.-
> > > > -
> > > > EX-
>
> > > > Good on the U.S. Team management.
>
> > > > GKemp-
>
> > > > Shame on you Mitch Hudson,
>
> > > > I was not aware that this discussion group could be used to embarrass,
> > > > slander, and humiliate another member. First of all Mitch you were not
> > > > there. I can only assume that you got your information from your
> > > > friend who had a major disagreement with Devin at the Junior Worlds..
> > > > The facts are unimportant for this discussion.
> > > > I am not one of Devin's drinking buddies, I am his 71 year old friend
> > > > and co-worker.
> > > > Mitch, the only thing you have accomplished with your post is hurting
> > > > Devin, his family and his friends.
>
> > > > Gabe Bourbeau
> > > > Minden NV
>
> > > Gabe,
>
> > > Respectfully, while this post may well embarrass and humiliate
> > > Devin, it would only be slander if it was untrue. *We are all assuming a
> > > lot, it would be good if there was some sort of official word from the
> > > US team as to the reason for his dismissal. *If it is true, I would hope
> > > that he would be embarrassed and humiliated, that might go a long way
> > > towards improving his decision making abilities. *Drinking 'till 4 AM
> > > the day of an event is not a smart thing to do.
>
> > > As a 71 year old friend and co worker I hope you will try to give
> > > him the benefit of your lifetime of experience. *Unfortunately it has
> > > been my experience that youth fails to listen to the older, more
> > > experienced crowd until it's too late. *We have had a number of
> > > fatalities in the last few weeks in the soaring community from various
> > > causes, most of which are to some degree associated with poor decision
> > > making. *
>
> > > What Mitch has done might be the best thing that could happen to
> > > Devin. It appears to me that someone needs to get his attention. * Don't
> > > be an enabler by dismissing his actions. An old Air Force Colonel gave
> > > me a good kick in the ass once, I learned a lot from his guidance.
>
> > > Walt
>
> > > --
> > > Walt Connelly
>
> > As someone who was at the competition and one of the people who was up
> > at 4 in the morning I would like to chime in on the issue. *There were
> > many pilots who stayed up late during the competition from many
> > different nations. *When I saw Devin at the bar during the competition
> > he was acting responsibly and relatively low key. *I also spotted the
> > US team captain up late and partying on most nights. *I do not recall
> > seeing Devin up any later than 1am. *In my opinion and a number of
> > team captains I spoke to was that the punishment was unnecessary and
> > we feel not embarrassed for Devin but the US soaring scene. *I think
> > the original post is slanderous and full of hear say. *Anyone who has
> > met Devin will know that he is a responsible young man who does like
> > to have some fun but can take care of himself.
>
> > Chris Gough, Canada Team Capatain 2011 JWGC
>
> I have known Devin since he came on the scene about 7 or 8 years ago.
> I have been around him a lot. I have flown with him many times and
> places. I have ALWAYS found him to be a responsible pilot and fine
> young man. I was shocked when I read the first post. It just did not
> sound like the Devin I know. Yes, he is a young man and likes to
> party.However, the post made by Chirs Gough, Canadian Team Captain,
> sounds more like it. Chris was there. As far as I know he is the only
> one who was there among the dozen or so who have chimed in.
>
> As I understand it, the original post came from someone who was not
> there and who gave as his "outside source" a blog from a pilot or
> pilots from the UK. I think it is very unfortunate that Devin's
> reputation should be damaged by this kind of hearsay. This was a very
> inappropriate thing to do.
>
> I stand by Devin as a very fine young man....too bad he will have to
> do a bit of rebuilding now but I am confident he will.
>
> Jim Price

fifth. Michael Mitton
MM based in Minden

Ramy

August 29th 11, 08:22 PM

On Aug 28, 6:13*am, 77 > wrote:
> On Aug 27, 10:13*am, chris > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 26, 9:29*am, Walt Connelly <Walt.Connelly.
>
> > > wrote:
> > > 'GB[_5_ Wrote:
>
> > > > ;781455']On Aug 25, 7:16*am, "
> > > >
> > > > wrote:-
> > > > On Aug 24, 6:45*pm, Mitch Hudson wrote:
> > > > -
> > > > Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior
> > > > Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and
> > > > general
> > > > disrespect for the coaching staff. *It is unfortunate that such a
> > > > potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the
> > > > U.S. team due to his drinking problem. *For those of you who wondered
> > > > why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why.-
> > > > -
> > > > Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from
> > > > the
> > > > contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots
> > > > there.-
> > > > -
> > > > EX-
>
> > > > Good on the U.S. Team management.
>
> > > > GKemp-
>
> > > > Shame on you Mitch Hudson,
>
> > > > I was not aware that this discussion group could be used to embarrass,
> > > > slander, and humiliate another member. First of all Mitch you were not
> > > > there. I can only assume that you got your information from your
> > > > friend who had a major disagreement with Devin at the Junior Worlds..
> > > > The facts are unimportant for this discussion.
> > > > I am not one of Devin's drinking buddies, I am his 71 year old friend
> > > > and co-worker.
> > > > Mitch, the only thing you have accomplished with your post is hurting
> > > > Devin, his family and his friends.
>
> > > > Gabe Bourbeau
> > > > Minden NV
>
> > > Gabe,
>
> > > Respectfully, while this post may well embarrass and humiliate
> > > Devin, it would only be slander if it was untrue. *We are all assuming a
> > > lot, it would be good if there was some sort of official word from the
> > > US team as to the reason for his dismissal. *If it is true, I would hope
> > > that he would be embarrassed and humiliated, that might go a long way
> > > towards improving his decision making abilities. *Drinking 'till 4 AM
> > > the day of an event is not a smart thing to do.
>
> > > As a 71 year old friend and co worker I hope you will try to give
> > > him the benefit of your lifetime of experience. *Unfortunately it has
> > > been my experience that youth fails to listen to the older, more
> > > experienced crowd until it's too late. *We have had a number of
> > > fatalities in the last few weeks in the soaring community from various
> > > causes, most of which are to some degree associated with poor decision
> > > making. *
>
> > > What Mitch has done might be the best thing that could happen to
> > > Devin. It appears to me that someone needs to get his attention. * Don't
> > > be an enabler by dismissing his actions. An old Air Force Colonel gave
> > > me a good kick in the ass once, I learned a lot from his guidance.
>
> > > Walt
>
> > > --
> > > Walt Connelly
>
> > As someone who was at the competition and one of the people who was up
> > at 4 in the morning I would like to chime in on the issue. *There were
> > many pilots who stayed up late during the competition from many
> > different nations. *When I saw Devin at the bar during the competition
> > he was acting responsibly and relatively low key. *I also spotted the
> > US team captain up late and partying on most nights. *I do not recall
> > seeing Devin up any later than 1am. *In my opinion and a number of
> > team captains I spoke to was that the punishment was unnecessary and
> > we feel not embarrassed for Devin but the US soaring scene. *I think
> > the original post is slanderous and full of hear say. *Anyone who has
> > met Devin will know that he is a responsible young man who does like
> > to have some fun but can take care of himself.
>
> > Chris Gough, Canada Team Capatain 2011 JWGC
>
> I have known Devin since he came on the scene about 7 or 8 years ago.
> I have been around him a lot. I have flown with him many times and
> places. I have ALWAYS found him to be a responsible pilot and fine
> young man. I was shocked when I read the first post. It just did not
> sound like the Devin I know. Yes, he is a young man and likes to
> party.However, the post made by Chirs Gough, Canadian Team Captain,
> sounds more like it. Chris was there. As far as I know he is the only
> one who was there among the dozen or so who have chimed in.
>
> As I understand it, the original post came from someone who was not
> there and who gave as his "outside source" a blog from a pilot or
> pilots from the UK. I think it is very unfortunate that Devin's
> reputation should be damaged by this kind of hearsay. This was a very
> inappropriate thing to do.
>
> I stand by Devin as a very fine young man....too bad he will have to
> do a bit of rebuilding now but I am confident he will.
>
> Jim Price- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ditto.
It is quiet obvious from reading the tone and the title of Mitch's
post that he was writing it with a lot of pleasure to embarrass
Devin. I am sure that there is another side to this story which we
haven't heard yet, and there should have been an official explanation
of what happened instead of someone's hearsay post.

Ramy

Kevin Christner

August 29th 11, 10:50 PM

On Aug 29, 2:53*pm, Mike Mike Ground >
wrote:
> On Aug 28, 6:13*am, 77 > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 27, 10:13*am, chris > wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 26, 9:29*am, Walt Connelly <Walt.Connelly.
>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 'GB[_5_ Wrote:
>
> > > > > ;781455']On Aug 25, 7:16*am, "
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:-
> > > > > On Aug 24, 6:45*pm, Mitch Hudson wrote:
> > > > > -
> > > > > Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior
> > > > > Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and
> > > > > general
> > > > > disrespect for the coaching staff. *It is unfortunate that such a
> > > > > potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the
> > > > > U.S. team due to his drinking problem. *For those of you who wondered
> > > > > why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why.-
> > > > > -
> > > > > Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from
> > > > > the
> > > > > contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots
> > > > > there.-
> > > > > -
> > > > > EX-
>
> > > > > Good on the U.S. Team management.
>
> > > > > GKemp-
>
> > > > > Shame on you Mitch Hudson,
>
> > > > > I was not aware that this discussion group could be used to embarrass,
> > > > > slander, and humiliate another member. First of all Mitch you were not
> > > > > there. I can only assume that you got your information from your
> > > > > friend who had a major disagreement with Devin at the Junior Worlds.
> > > > > The facts are unimportant for this discussion.
> > > > > I am not one of Devin's drinking buddies, I am his 71 year old friend
> > > > > and co-worker.
> > > > > Mitch, the only thing you have accomplished with your post is hurting
> > > > > Devin, his family and his friends.
>
> > > > > Gabe Bourbeau
> > > > > Minden NV
>
> > > > Gabe,
>
> > > > Respectfully, while this post may well embarrass and humiliate
> > > > Devin, it would only be slander if it was untrue. *We are all assuming a
> > > > lot, it would be good if there was some sort of official word from the
> > > > US team as to the reason for his dismissal. *If it is true, I would hope
> > > > that he would be embarrassed and humiliated, that might go a long way
> > > > towards improving his decision making abilities. *Drinking 'till 4 AM
> > > > the day of an event is not a smart thing to do.
>
> > > > As a 71 year old friend and co worker I hope you will try to give
> > > > him the benefit of your lifetime of experience. *Unfortunately it has
> > > > been my experience that youth fails to listen to the older, more
> > > > experienced crowd until it's too late. *We have had a number of
> > > > fatalities in the last few weeks in the soaring community from various
> > > > causes, most of which are to some degree associated with poor decision
> > > > making. *
>
> > > > What Mitch has done might be the best thing that could happen to
> > > > Devin. It appears to me that someone needs to get his attention. * Don't
> > > > be an enabler by dismissing his actions. An old Air Force Colonel gave
> > > > me a good kick in the ass once, I learned a lot from his guidance.
>
> > > > Walt
>
> > > > --
> > > > Walt Connelly
>
> > > As someone who was at the competition and one of the people who was up
> > > at 4 in the morning I would like to chime in on the issue. *There were
> > > many pilots who stayed up late during the competition from many
> > > different nations. *When I saw Devin at the bar during the competition
> > > he was acting responsibly and relatively low key. *I also spotted the
> > > US team captain up late and partying on most nights. *I do not recall
> > > seeing Devin up any later than 1am. *In my opinion and a number of
> > > team captains I spoke to was that the punishment was unnecessary and
> > > we feel not embarrassed for Devin but the US soaring scene. *I think
> > > the original post is slanderous and full of hear say. *Anyone who has
> > > met Devin will know that he is a responsible young man who does like
> > > to have some fun but can take care of himself.
>
> > > Chris Gough, Canada Team Capatain 2011 JWGC
>
> > I have known Devin since he came on the scene about 7 or 8 years ago.
> > I have been around him a lot. I have flown with him many times and
> > places. I have ALWAYS found him to be a responsible pilot and fine
> > young man. I was shocked when I read the first post. It just did not
> > sound like the Devin I know. Yes, he is a young man and likes to
> > party.However, the post made by Chirs Gough, Canadian Team Captain,
> > sounds more like it. Chris was there. As far as I know he is the only
> > one who was there among the dozen or so who have chimed in.
>
> > As I understand it, the original post came from someone who was not
> > there and who gave as his "outside source" a blog from a pilot or
> > pilots from the UK. I think it is very unfortunate that Devin's
> > reputation should be damaged by this kind of hearsay. This was a very
> > inappropriate thing to do.
>
> > I stand by Devin as a very fine young man....too bad he will have to
> > do a bit of rebuilding now but I am confident he will.
>
> > Jim Price
>
> fifth. *Michael Mitton
> MM based in Minden

Six

Rex Mayes

August 30th 11, 03:53 AM

Regardless of the people involved, I question the character of any
member of a sponsored team that stays out until midnight, let alone 4
AM.
I do not care if he is drinking or not. A person sent to compete and
represent should have the self control and dicipline to train, study,
fly his best, rest and prepare to win the next day.
There really should not be much time for a party at this level of
competition. Hopefully we choose the best pilots to represent and
have the best chance for a USA win.
When I hear that any of the pilots are out past 2200 I wonder did we
send them to fly or party? Should we say " oh they are just kids.
Let them have a good time? I say not. Not on My Dime.

I do not buy this crap about being ok because he is a nice guy and has
friends and supporters. We need to have standards.

Maybe I am just way to "Old Fashion".

I wonder if I am alone or will get a second from any others who expect
more from our youth.

Rex

guy

August 30th 11, 04:31 AM

Representative: "representing or serving to represent...being an
example or type of a certain class or kind of thing...a person or
thing enough like the others in its class or thing to serve as an
example or type." Webster's New World Dictionary, second college
edition.

or as I have always told my children, "Character matters."

This was not a person representing himself or on holiday. This was a
person representing the United States of America. He was there on
other person's money.

However, we still have not heard from the team coach. We have not
heard from Devin. This lack of communication just stimulates the
Blogosphere. The USA Team coach has a responsibility here also.

Just my opinions.

Guy "DDS"

Greg Arnold[_2_]

August 30th 11, 04:37 AM

On 8/29/2011 7:53 PM, Rex Mayes wrote:
> Regardless of the people involved, I question the character of any
> member of a sponsored team that stays out until midnight, let alone 4
> AM.
> I do not care if he is drinking or not. A person sent to compete and
> represent should have the self control and dicipline to train, study,
> fly his best, rest and prepare to win the next day.
> There really should not be much time for a party at this level of
> competition. Hopefully we choose the best pilots to represent and
> have the best chance for a USA win.
> When I hear that any of the pilots are out past 2200 I wonder did we
> send them to fly or party? Should we say " oh they are just kids.
> Let them have a good time? I say not. Not on My Dime.
>
> I do not buy this crap about being ok because he is a nice guy and has
> friends and supporters. We need to have standards.
>
> Maybe I am just way to "Old Fashion".
>
> I wonder if I am alone or will get a second from any others who expect
> more from our youth.
>
> Rex

I don't know anything about the facts of this case. However, soaring
competition at the international level is a team effort. Every member
of the team is expected to do their job. They should try to have a good
time, but their good time should not interfere with their job. The
pilot's job is to maximize his soaring performance. If his partying
interferes with that, he is not doing his job. Worse, he is letting
down all the other team members (including financial contributors) who
have given their time and effort to support the team. If any member of
the team is not giving 100%, you should boot him from the team.

guy

August 30th 11, 04:52 AM

Representative: "representing or serving to represent...in the place
or on behalf of another or others...composed of persons duly
authorized, as by election, to act and speak for others." Webster's
New World Dictionary, Second College Edition.

Or as I have told my children repeatedly, "Character Matters."

He was there as part of the U.S.A. Team, not on personal holiday. He
was travelling on other person's money. When I go to fly at St.
Auban, it will be brought up.

He is not alone. The captain of the U.S.A. team should be speaking
up. Devin should be speaking up. This silence just feeds the
Blogosphere.

Just my opinions.

Guy "DDS"

GB[_5_]

August 30th 11, 02:42 PM

On Aug 29, 7:53*pm, Rex Mayes > wrote:
> Regardless of the people involved, I question the character of any
> member of a sponsored team that stays out until midnight, let alone 4
> AM.
> I do not care if he is drinking or not. *A person sent to compete and
> represent should have the self control and dicipline to train, study,
> fly his best, rest and prepare to win the next day.
> There really should not be much time for a party at this level of
> competition. *Hopefully we choose the best pilots to represent and
> have the best chance for a USA win.
> When I hear that any of the pilots are out past 2200 I wonder did we
> send them to fly *or party? *Should we say " oh they are just kids.
> Let them have a good time? *I say not. *Not on My Dime.
>
> I do not buy this crap about being ok because he is a nice guy and has
> friends and supporters. *We need to have standards.
>
> Maybe I am just way to "Old Fashion".
>
> I wonder if I am alone or will get a second from any others who expect
> more from our youth.
>
> Rex

Rex,

I agree with you completely.
Anyone who has contributed to the US and other nation,s teams should
be mad as hell.
I never condoned Devin action (witch none of us know the exact
details)
What I objected to, was the mean-spirited original post.
It appears that many competitors (including the US team captain) were
out partying most night. Again, that is hearsay.

Gabe Bourbeau
Minden NV

Bill D

August 30th 11, 05:47 PM

On Aug 30, 7:42*am, GB > wrote:
> On Aug 29, 7:53*pm, Rex Mayes > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Regardless of the people involved, I question the character of any
> > member of a sponsored team that stays out until midnight, let alone 4
> > AM.
> > I do not care if he is drinking or not. *A person sent to compete and
> > represent should have the self control and dicipline to train, study,
> > fly his best, rest and prepare to win the next day.
> > There really should not be much time for a party at this level of
> > competition. *Hopefully we choose the best pilots to represent and
> > have the best chance for a USA win.
> > When I hear that any of the pilots are out past 2200 I wonder did we
> > send them to fly *or party? *Should we say " oh they are just kids.
> > Let them have a good time? *I say not. *Not on My Dime.
>
> > I do not buy this crap about being ok because he is a nice guy and has
> > friends and supporters. *We need to have standards.
>
> > Maybe I am just way to "Old Fashion".
>
> > I wonder if I am alone or will get a second from any others who expect
> > more from our youth.
>
> > Rex
>
> Rex,
>
> I agree with you completely.
> Anyone who has contributed to the US *and other nation,s teams should
> be mad as hell.
> I never condoned Devin action (witch none of us know *the exact
> details)
> What I objected to, was the mean-spirited original post.
> It appears that many competitors (including the US team captain) were
> out partying most night. Again, that is hearsay.
>
> Gabe Bourbeau
> Minden NV

I think we need to tone this down. This whole matter is a sad tragedy
made worse because it has become a public scandal. These young people
need our help and support not presumptive criticism. No one, young or
old, is immune to mistakes - try to put yourself in their positions.
We need to deal with it in a mature way and rise above the rhetoric.

I do not know the facts and, from this thread, it doesn't appear
anyone posting to r.a.s. does either. I haven't had the pleasure of
meeting Devin but I do know the team captain and I respect Kathryn and
know her to have good judgement. I also know Mitch Hudson as a highly
respectable USAF officer.

That said, and speaking generally without any reference whatsoever to
these individuals or this incident, alcohol just doesn't mix with
flying. The FAR 91.17 8 Hr "bottle to throttle" rule is way too
lenient. The German Luftfahrt-Bundesamt (LBA) 12 hour rule is much
better. USN aeromedical research has even found degraded cognitive
performance 72 hours after consuming alcohol. The stuff makes you
dumb and dumb doesn't win soaring competitions.

Bill Daniels

Just my $0.02

[email protected]

August 30th 11, 06:37 PM

On Aug 30, 12:47*pm, Bill D > wrote:
> On Aug 30, 7:42*am, GB > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 29, 7:53*pm, Rex Mayes > wrote:
>
> > > Regardless of the people involved, I question the character of any
> > > member of a sponsored team that stays out until midnight, let alone 4
> > > AM.
> > > I do not care if he is drinking or not. *A person sent to compete and
> > > represent should have the self control and dicipline to train, study,
> > > fly his best, rest and prepare to win the next day.
> > > There really should not be much time for a party at this level of
> > > competition. *Hopefully we choose the best pilots to represent and
> > > have the best chance for a USA win.
> > > When I hear that any of the pilots are out past 2200 I wonder did we
> > > send them to fly *or party? *Should we say " oh they are just kids.
> > > Let them have a good time? *I say not. *Not on My Dime.
>
> > > I do not buy this crap about being ok because he is a nice guy and has
> > > friends and supporters. *We need to have standards.
>
> > > Maybe I am just way to "Old Fashion".
>
> > > I wonder if I am alone or will get a second from any others who expect
> > > more from our youth.
>
> > > Rex
>
> > Rex,
>
> > I agree with you completely.
> > Anyone who has contributed to the US *and other nation,s teams should
> > be mad as hell.
> > I never condoned Devin action (witch none of us know *the exact
> > details)
> > What I objected to, was the mean-spirited original post.
> > It appears that many competitors (including the US team captain) were
> > out partying most night. Again, that is hearsay.
>
> > Gabe Bourbeau
> > Minden NV
>
> I think we need to tone this down. *This whole matter is a sad tragedy
> made worse because it has become a public scandal. *These young people
> need our help and support not presumptive criticism. *No one, young or
> old, is immune to mistakes - try to put yourself in their positions.
> We need to deal with it in a mature way and rise above the rhetoric.
>
> I do not know the facts and, from this thread, it doesn't appear
> anyone posting to r.a.s. does either. *I haven't had the pleasure of
> meeting Devin but I do know the team captain and I respect Kathryn and
> know her to have good judgement. *I also know Mitch Hudson as a highly
> respectable USAF officer.
>
> That said, and speaking generally without any reference whatsoever to
> these individuals or this incident, alcohol just doesn't mix with
> flying. *The FAR 91.17 8 Hr "bottle to throttle" rule is way too
> lenient. * The German Luftfahrt-Bundesamt (LBA) 12 hour rule is much
> better. *USN aeromedical research has even found degraded cognitive
> performance 72 hours after consuming alcohol. *The stuff makes you
> dumb and dumb doesn't win soaring competitions.
>
> Bill Daniels
>
> Just my $0.02- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Make that $2.00- well said.
I do know Devin, having coached him when he started racing.
I'm saddened by what we hear has happened.
I'm proud of the positive accomplishments he had at the WGC.
I will support him in the future as I trust he will learn from this
experience.
UH

Don Johnstone[_4_]

August 30th 11, 10:39 PM

Unbelievable, It could only happen in............

The response to this has truly amazed me.

You have a proportion of people who think that someone who parties to the
early hours and then get into an aeroplane as a pilot is hard done by when
he is blown out.
You have a proportion of people who attack the person who posted the
information, fairly standard reaction to whistleblowers so no surprise
there I suppose.
Bottom line, the team management took the very serious step of preventing
him flying on the last day, one assumes they were in the best position to
know the facts.
Alcohol and flying do not mix and frankly I have absolutely no sympathy
with anyone who tries it.
Get real people, the messenger is not the one who needs shooting and while
people show an ambivalent attitude to those who do drink and fly the
practice will never be eradicated.

Fox

August 30th 11, 10:43 PM

I once left the office after work and went to the bar with a co-
worker. We sat through happy hour, 5pm-7pm, and had exactly 2 drinks.
We then went to his house and messed around with his computers and
electronic gadgets and played a couple of games of pool in his rec-
room while enjoying a cigar. Those are the facts.

Now...the way my EX told the story...I was out drinking with Jason
until 2am again. Running all over town with "God-knows-who" doing "God-
knows-what" and coming home smelling like an ashtray.

Just because she woke up at 2am and looked at the clock (after I had
already been home and in bed for more than 2 hours) does not mean I
was out drinking until 2am.

When she told her friends this story I was not there to clear up the
details. Was that fair of her? How did her friends perceive me based
on that information without even knowing me?

THAT the information was given, I do not see as a problem. HOW the
information was given, with opinions stated as facts, details
sensationalized (such as "being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying
days")...that I wag my finger at.

Was he drinking at 4am? Did someone see him take a shot and note the
time at 4am? Was it HIS flying day or just "on flying days" in general
(days that he may not even be scheduled to fly)? The verbiage is not
clear. Did he fly within 8 hours of drinking or have a blood alcohol
level above legal limit (0.04%)?

Assuming all this is fact...Pays tab at 4am and flies at noon. If one
is fit to fly and within all legal limits. Does that not meet the
requirements (even if not recommended for comfort reasons)?

That being said. Here is my PERSONAL policy.
I am an American glider pilot and I NEVER drink even the day before I
fly...as a rule. I know that is far more than required but that is my
personal limit. But I have been known to sit with friends while they
drink and have a Cranberry Tonic. Not a drop of alcohol in it. But to
an observer... especially a "coaching staff who is already upset with
my cocky attitude".

Food for thought...

Fox

Big Wings

August 30th 11, 10:59 PM

"This whole matter is a sad tragedy..."

No it's not. Nobody got hurt, or died - perhaps because someone took
preemptive action. Embarrassment - yes. Tragedy - no.

At 17:37 30 August 2011, wrote:
>On Aug 30, 12:47=A0pm, Bill D wrote:
>> On Aug 30, 7:42=A0am, GB wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Aug 29, 7:53=A0pm, Rex Mayes wrote:
>>
>> > > Regardless of the people involved, I question the character of any
>> > > member of a sponsored team that stays out until midnight, let alone
4
>> > > AM.
>> > > I do not care if he is drinking or not. =A0A person sent to compete
>a=
>nd
>> > > represent should have the self control and dicipline to train,
study,
>> > > fly his best, rest and prepare to win the next day.
>> > > There really should not be much time for a party at this level of
>> > > competition. =A0Hopefully we choose the best pilots to represent
and
>> > > have the best chance for a USA win.
>> > > When I hear that any of the pilots are out past 2200 I wonder did
we
>> > > send them to fly =A0or party? =A0Should we say " oh they are just
>kid=
>s.
>> > > Let them have a good time? =A0I say not. =A0Not on My Dime.
>>
>> > > I do not buy this crap about being ok because he is a nice guy and
>ha=
>s
>> > > friends and supporters. =A0We need to have standards.
>>
>> > > Maybe I am just way to "Old Fashion".
>>
>> > > I wonder if I am alone or will get a second from any others who
>expec=
>t
>> > > more from our youth.
>>
>> > > Rex
>>
>> > Rex,
>>
>> > I agree with you completely.
>> > Anyone who has contributed to the US =A0and other nation,s teams
should
>> > be mad as hell.
>> > I never condoned Devin action (witch none of us know =A0the exact
>> > details)
>> > What I objected to, was the mean-spirited original post.
>> > It appears that many competitors (including the US team captain) were
>> > out partying most night. Again, that is hearsay.
>>
>> > Gabe Bourbeau
>> > Minden NV
>>
>> I think we need to tone this down. =A0This whole matter is a sad
tragedy
>> made worse because it has become a public scandal. =A0These young
people
>> need our help and support not presumptive criticism. =A0No one, young
or
>> old, is immune to mistakes - try to put yourself in their positions.
>> We need to deal with it in a mature way and rise above the rhetoric.
>>
>> I do not know the facts and, from this thread, it doesn't appear
>> anyone posting to r.a.s. does either. =A0I haven't had the pleasure of
>> meeting Devin but I do know the team captain and I respect Kathryn and
>> know her to have good judgement. =A0I also know Mitch Hudson as a
highly
>> respectable USAF officer.
>>
>> That said, and speaking generally without any reference whatsoever to
>> these individuals or this incident, alcohol just doesn't mix with
>> flying. =A0The FAR 91.17 8 Hr "bottle to throttle" rule is way too
>> lenient. =A0 The German Luftfahrt-Bundesamt (LBA) 12 hour rule is much
>> better. =A0USN aeromedical research has even found degraded cognitive
>> performance 72 hours after consuming alcohol. =A0The stuff makes you
>> dumb and dumb doesn't win soaring competitions.
>>
>> Bill Daniels
>>
>> Just my $0.02- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Make that $2.00- well said.
>I do know Devin, having coached him when he started racing.
>I'm saddened by what we hear has happened.
>I'm proud of the positive accomplishments he had at the WGC.
>I will support him in the future as I trust he will learn from this
>experience.
>UH
>

Ramy

August 31st 11, 12:16 AM

On Aug 30, 2:39*pm, Don Johnstone > wrote:
> Unbelievable, It could only happen in............
>
> The response to this has truly amazed me.
>
> You have a proportion of people who think that someone who parties to the
> early hours and then get into an aeroplane as a pilot is hard done by when
> he is blown out.
> You have a proportion of people who attack the person who posted the
> information, fairly standard reaction to whistleblowers so no surprise
> there I suppose.
> Bottom line, the team management took the very serious step of preventing
> him flying on the last day, one assumes they were in the best position to
> know the facts.
> Alcohol and flying do not mix and frankly I have absolutely no sympathy
> with anyone who tries it.
> Get real people, the messenger is not the one who needs shooting and while
> people show an ambivalent attitude to those who do drink and fly the
> practice will never be eradicated.

"preventing him flying on the last day" and "Kicked out of Junior
worlds" is not the same thing!
Perhaps you know more than we do, and this is the main problem, no
official word of what happened so far as far as I know.
And as long as there is no official word, it is all a hearsay and he
should have not been criticized in public forum.

Ramy

guy

August 31st 11, 12:26 AM

Ramy,
That is what we are all waiting for...the official word.
I am just as disappointed by the lack of official word as I am with
the situation.
Guy "DDS"

Ramy

August 31st 11, 12:38 AM

On Aug 30, 4:26*pm, guy > wrote:
> Ramy,
> That is what we are all waiting for...the official word.
> I am just as disappointed by the lack of official word as I am with
> the situation.
> Guy "DDS"

I see this trend with SSA all the time. Be it accidents, contest
issues, OLC issues etc. No official word. Makes me wonder if anyone
there is following this forum, or they believe that soaring magazine
should be the only way to communicate.

Ramy

Tony[_5_]

August 31st 11, 05:31 PM

> I see this trend with SSA all the time. Be it accidents, contest
> issues, OLC issues etc. No official word. Makes me wonder if anyone
> there is following this forum, or they believe that soaring magazine
> should be the only way to communicate.
>
> Ramy

Statement is up on the SSA Homepage:

http://www.ssa.org/myhome.asp?mbr=6789819598&show=blog&id=2689

William Elliott

August 31st 11, 09:03 PM

On Aug 24, 8:45*pm, Mitch Hudson > wrote:
> Rec.aviation.soaring favorite, Devin was kicked out of the Junior
> Worlds for being up until 4:00 AM drinking on flying days, and general
> disrespect for the coaching staff. *It is unfortunate that such a
> potentially talented young pilot was unable to meet his duties to the
> U.S. team due to his drinking problem. *For those of you who wondered
> why he got a "Zero" on the last day, this is why.
>
> Good on the U.S. team for making a tough decision to pull him from the
> contest before he became a safety factor for any of the other pilots
> there.
>
> EX

I have watched this RAS thread regarding Devin from the beginning.
There has been a significant effort in the background by the US Team
Committee (USTC) and there is still work to be done. We believed that
until now it was premature to comment publicly. The whole incident
has been quite regrettable -- both the actual incident at the JWGC and
then the posting on RAS. An official statement has now been provided
on the SSA US Team site here:

http://www.ssa.org/myhome.asp?mbr=6789819598&show=blog&id=2689

It has been clear to me from the postings that everyone is concerned.
People have resonated about many different aspects of this ... Should
it have been posted? Is the account true? Was the treatment fair?
Why hasn't the USTC commented? and, so on. Most everyone does seem to
agree that the reported conduct was neither appropriate for a US Team
member nor in any way acceptable for safe, competitive (or even
recreational) flying.

Bill Elliott, Chairman
US Team Committee