Fly the aircraft

[Carl B]

> > >Modern gliders give very little indications of a stall (another reason
> > >why training in old clunkers like the 2-33 is counterproductive). Add
> > >a little distraction or a higher priority task (Bee in the cockpit!)

Is a bee in the cockpit enough of a distraction or a higher priority
task than flying
the aircraft. If you think so you should reread "Fate is the Hunter".

Carl B

[Albert Thomas]

On Sep 8, 7:41*pm, Carl B > wrote:
> > > >Modern gliders give very little indications of a stall (another reason
> > > >why training in old clunkers like the 2-33 is counterproductive). *Add
> > > >a little distraction or a higher priority task (Bee in the cockpit!)
>
> Is a bee in the cockpit enough of a distraction or a higher priority
> task than flying
> the aircraft. *If you think so you should reread "Fate is the Hunter".
>
> Carl B

I have a severe reaction to bee stings. I'm pretty careful about it
and haven't been stung in over 30 years. I carried an "EpiPen" with me
to contests or anywhere where I was traveling away from prompt medical
attention. But I didn't carry it in the cockpit back then. A sting to
the neck or upper torso would probably give me an hour or less to live
without medical attention. I had a mad bee enter the cockpit while I
was at 9K feet on task at a regional contest near Colorado Springs
about 10 years ago back. It might has well been a live hand grenade in
the cockpit as far as I was concerned. I was in contact with the C/S
tower (10 miles east) and was close to calliing an inflight emergency
with request for emergency landing with standby medical attention just
before I managed to kill the bee. During that time I also considered
bailing out of the aircraft to get away from the bee. Yes, I was
flying the sailplane the whole time (not very coordinated though) but
that bee had my full attention. After that happened one of my EpiPen
is always in my car when I drive and in my aircraft when I fly.

A mad bee in the cockpit is a different kind of event for those of us
for whom a sting could be a fatal event.

Al T

[Darryl Ramm]

On 9/9/11 8:12 AM, Albert Thomas wrote:
> On Sep 8, 7:41 pm, Carl > wrote:
>>>>> Modern gliders give very little indications of a stall (another reason
>>>>> why training in old clunkers like the 2-33 is counterproductive). Add
>>>>> a little distraction or a higher priority task (Bee in the cockpit!)
>>
>> Is a bee in the cockpit enough of a distraction or a higher priority
>> task than flying
>> the aircraft. If you think so you should reread "Fate is the Hunter".
>>
>> Carl B
>
> I have a severe reaction to bee stings. I'm pretty careful about it
> and haven't been stung in over 30 years. I carried an "EpiPen" with me
> to contests or anywhere where I was traveling away from prompt medical
> attention. But I didn't carry it in the cockpit back then. A sting to
> the neck or upper torso would probably give me an hour or less to live
> without medical attention. I had a mad bee enter the cockpit while I
> was at 9K feet on task at a regional contest near Colorado Springs
> about 10 years ago back. It might has well been a live hand grenade in
> the cockpit as far as I was concerned. I was in contact with the C/S
> tower (10 miles east) and was close to calliing an inflight emergency
> with request for emergency landing with standby medical attention just
> before I managed to kill the bee. During that time I also considered
> bailing out of the aircraft to get away from the bee. Yes, I was
> flying the sailplane the whole time (not very coordinated though) but
> that bee had my full attention. After that happened one of my EpiPen
> is always in my car when I drive and in my aircraft when I fly.
>
> A mad bee in the cockpit is a different kind of event for those of us
> for whom a sting could be a fatal event.
>
> Al T


I also thought about a bee allergy when this was mentioned. Many people
with severe bee allergies would succumb in less than an hour to a well
placed sting. I'm severely allergic to several things but luckily not
bee stings. I have ended up in the ER several times, and needed the full
on treatment with epinepherin/IV saline+Bendryl+Zantac/oxygen. That
epinepherin rush is something I'll never forget.

The poster above probably already does all this, but just to state it
here. For folks with severe allergies to stuff, I would carry more than
one epipen and they are available packaged in pairs -- the effects of
the initial injection can wear off and you'll end up back in
anaphylaxis. Epinepherin also does not like being exposed to heat, so
keep the pens cool and replace as needed, especially if the liquid get
dark/cloudy. Also you should carry a antihistamine/H1 blocker ideally
benadryl/diphenhydramine because its fairly quickly acting and a H2
blocking antihistamine like Zantac or Tagamet (yes the indigestion/ulcer
etc. medications). Please talk to your allergist about all this, the
different meds and possible side effects and what doses to take of these
etc. in an emergency.

BTW a good paper on emergency treatment that pretty much discusses the
current treatment "gold standard" is at
http://www.aafp.org/afp/2003/1001/p1325.html. Good reading for those
with severe allergies and those who may have to deal with this.

Not all ambulance/fire/rescue organizations carry or are trained to use
epinephrin and some also won't administer a H2 blocker. So its always a
good idea to carry your own and tell your crew etc. about your
conditions, where medications are stored, have them practice with a
training epipen etc.

Darryl

[Brad[_2_]]

On Sep 8, 7:41*pm, Carl B > wrote:
> > > >Modern gliders give very little indications of a stall (another reason
> > > >why training in old clunkers like the 2-33 is counterproductive). *Add
> > > >a little distraction or a higher priority task (Bee in the cockpit!)
>
> Is a bee in the cockpit enough of a distraction or a higher priority
> task than flying
> the aircraft. *If you think so you should reread "Fate is the Hunter".
>
> Carl B

my first flight in the LS-7WL I had to deal with a bee in the cockpit,
I did fly the airplane, and I did get it squashed against the canopy
frame............what worried me most was loosing sight of it and
having it get behind me or down my shirt collar.

I've had stinging insects hit the window pillar of my car before and
then lodge between my back and the seat................. unfortunately
the impact with the car didn't kill them, I got stung but I also
ground them to paste between my back and the seat..........yeah, it
hurt a lot..............would not want to deal with that in the
cockpit in the air.

Brad

[BobW]

On 9/9/2011 9:12 AM, Albert Thomas wrote:
> On Sep 8, 7:41 pm, Carl > wrote:
>>>>> Modern gliders give very little indications of a stall (another reason
>>>>> why training in old clunkers like the 2-33 is counterproductive). Add
>>>>> a little distraction or a higher priority task (Bee in the cockpit!)
>>
>> Is a bee in the cockpit enough of a distraction or a higher priority
>> task than flying
>> the aircraft. If you think so you should reread "Fate is the Hunter".
>>
>> Carl B
>
> I have a severe reaction to bee stings. I'm pretty careful about it
> and haven't been stung in over 30 years. I carried an "EpiPen" with me
> to contests or anywhere where I was traveling away from prompt medical
> attention. But I didn't carry it in the cockpit back then. A sting to
> the neck or upper torso would probably give me an hour or less to live
> without medical attention. I had a mad bee enter the cockpit while I
> was at 9K feet on task at a regional contest near Colorado Springs
> about 10 years ago back. It might has well been a live hand grenade in
> the cockpit as far as I was concerned. I was in contact with the C/S
> tower (10 miles east) and was close to calliing an inflight emergency
> with request for emergency landing with standby medical attention just
> before I managed to kill the bee. During that time I also considered
> bailing out of the aircraft to get away from the bee. Yes, I was
> flying the sailplane the whole time (not very coordinated though) but
> that bee had my full attention. After that happened one of my EpiPen
> is always in my car when I drive and in my aircraft when I fly.
>
> A mad bee in the cockpit is a different kind of event for those of us
> for whom a sting could be a fatal event.
>
> Al T
>

In no way intending to minimize the serious realities associated with having a
known life-threatening allergy to bee/wasp stings, a mis-spent youth included
several summers catching by the wings, using index finger and thumb,
'inspecting' (just to give the activity a veneer of 'scientific
justification'), then releasing bees (and the occasional yellow jackets and -
toughest to catch - paper wasps) led to what may have been my very first
'scientific hypothesis,' to wit: stinging insects - even the barbless ones -
generally don't want to sting you as much as you don't want to be stung. (They
also don't remain angry 'too long,' bald-faced hornets having the longest
group memories in my experience.)

This came in useful the one time an agitated paper wasp entered my HP-14
cockpit via the nose air tube, an event first detected on takeoff roll as
something yellow and brown thrummed past my right ear at about 20 knots. Mama
wasp was probably assessing a potential homesite. What a great situation for
testing a youthful theory! Being a cheap (rhymes with 'dastard'), I
'instantaneously' decided that ignoring mama, in the hope she would ignore me,
was an acceptable decision (vs. pulling the plug). And so it proved to be. Key
is simply remaining still. (Hand waving - and finger-catching, too, ha ha -
definitely 'insect agitational.')

I eventually encouraged/enabled mama to exit via the canopy (no side window)
once I'd gained some altitude, and she had recovered from her startlement as
concluded by her showing continuing interest in what lay beyond the canopy.

In any event...

Fly the aircraft,
Bob W.

[Walt Connelly]

There is a well documented, and true story where I fly of a female pilot who found a small snake in the cockpit after she took off. She remained calm, flew the tow, released and having grabbed the snake, opened the window and ejected same. I'm sure that was one confused snake on the way to the ground.

Now what city boys out there would have messed their pants and screamed like a little girl had the same thing happened to them?

Walt

[Ramy]

On Sep 9, 10:15*am, Brad > wrote:
> On Sep 8, 7:41*pm, Carl B > wrote:
>
> > > > >Modern gliders give very little indications of a stall (another reason
> > > > >why training in old clunkers like the 2-33 is counterproductive). *Add
> > > > >a little distraction or a higher priority task (Bee in the cockpit!)
>
> > Is a bee in the cockpit enough of a distraction or a higher priority
> > task than flying
> > the aircraft. *If you think so you should reread "Fate is the Hunter"..
>
> > Carl B
>
> my first flight in the LS-7WL I had to deal with a bee in the cockpit,
> I did fly the airplane, and I did get it squashed against the canopy
> frame............what worried me most was loosing sight of it and
> having it get behind me or down my shirt collar.
>
> I've had stinging insects hit the window pillar of my car before and
> then lodge between my back and the seat................. unfortunately
> the impact with the car didn't kill them, I got stung but I also
> ground them to paste between my back and the seat..........yeah, it
> hurt a lot..............would not want to deal with that in the
> cockpit in the air.
>
> Brad

I wonder if some of the many unexplained fatal accidents can be
attributed to bees/snakes/spiders/mice etc. No need to be alergic,
panic may be sufficient to incapacitate...

Ramy

[Darryl Ramm]

On 9/9/11 3:49 PM, Ramy wrote:
> On Sep 9, 10:15 am, > wrote:
>> On Sep 8, 7:41 pm, Carl > wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Modern gliders give very little indications of a stall (another reason
>>>>>> why training in old clunkers like the 2-33 is counterproductive). Add
>>>>>> a little distraction or a higher priority task (Bee in the cockpit!)
>>
>>> Is a bee in the cockpit enough of a distraction or a higher priority
>>> task than flying
>>> the aircraft. If you think so you should reread "Fate is the Hunter".
>>
>>> Carl B
>>
>> my first flight in the LS-7WL I had to deal with a bee in the cockpit,
>> I did fly the airplane, and I did get it squashed against the canopy
>> frame............what worried me most was loosing sight of it and
>> having it get behind me or down my shirt collar.
>>
>> I've had stinging insects hit the window pillar of my car before and
>> then lodge between my back and the seat................. unfortunately
>> the impact with the car didn't kill them, I got stung but I also
>> ground them to paste between my back and the seat..........yeah, it
>> hurt a lot..............would not want to deal with that in the
>> cockpit in the air.
>>
>> Brad
>
> I wonder if some of the many unexplained fatal accidents can be
> attributed to bees/snakes/spiders/mice etc. No need to be alergic,
> panic may be sufficient to incapacitate...
>
> Ramy

Your probably thinking of the snake found in a glider undercarriage
recently in Nevada (any idea what type of snake it was?).

There is also the (true) story of hypoxic mice staggering out into a
glider cockpit as the pilot calmly picked them up and tossed them out
the vent window. Those mice, besides filling up the glider with mice
crap (and maybe Hantavirus), maybe fleas, nesting material etc., tend to
chew on things and may also attack those snakes....


Darryl

[Brad[_2_]]

On Sep 9, 4:17*pm, Darryl Ramm > wrote:
> On 9/9/11 3:49 PM, Ramy wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 9, 10:15 am, > *wrote:
> >> On Sep 8, 7:41 pm, Carl > *wrote:
>
> >>>>>> Modern gliders give very little indications of a stall (another reason
> >>>>>> why training in old clunkers like the 2-33 is counterproductive). *Add
> >>>>>> a little distraction or a higher priority task (Bee in the cockpit!)
>
> >>> Is a bee in the cockpit enough of a distraction or a higher priority
> >>> task than flying
> >>> the aircraft. *If you think so you should reread "Fate is the Hunter".
>
> >>> Carl B
>
> >> my first flight in the LS-7WL I had to deal with a bee in the cockpit,
> >> I did fly the airplane, and I did get it squashed against the canopy
> >> frame............what worried me most was loosing sight of it and
> >> having it get behind me or down my shirt collar.
>
> >> I've had stinging insects hit the window pillar of my car before and
> >> then lodge between my back and the seat................. unfortunately
> >> the impact with the car didn't kill them, I got stung but I also
> >> ground them to paste between my back and the seat..........yeah, it
> >> hurt a lot..............would not want to deal with that in the
> >> cockpit in the air.
>
> >> Brad
>
> > I wonder if some of the many unexplained fatal accidents can be
> > attributed to bees/snakes/spiders/mice etc. No need to be alergic,
> > panic may be sufficient to incapacitate...
>
> > Ramy
>
> Your probably thinking of the snake found in a glider undercarriage
> recently in Nevada (any idea what type of snake it was?).
>
> There is also the (true) story of hypoxic mice staggering out into a
> glider cockpit as the pilot calmly picked them up and tossed them out
> the vent window. Those mice, besides filling up the glider with mice
> crap (and maybe Hantavirus), maybe fleas, nesting material etc., tend to
> chew on things and may also attack those snakes....
>
> Darryl

years ago when I recovered the wings on my ASK-14 I discovered about 5
mummified baby mice strung out along the spar, it looked like they
were trying to get out of the wing. the wings hung in the corner of
the shop long enough for a mouse to move in and have a family, not
wanting to have them destroy my wood wings I placed a few containers
of mouse-b-gone inside at the root................mama mouse left for
good even tho she had little ones..................I even felt kinda
sad when I ripped off the fabric and discovered this..........

Brad

[Scott[_7_]]

On 9-9-2011 21:53, Walt Connelly wrote:
> There is a well documented, and true story where I fly of a female pilot
> who found a small snake in the cockpit after she took off. She remained
> calm, flew the tow, released and having grabbed the snake, opened the
> window and ejected same. I'm sure that was one confused snake on the
> way to the ground.
>
> Now what city boys out there would have messed their pants and screamed
> like a little girl had the same thing happened to them?
>
> Walt
>
>
>
>
Depends on the snake variety :)

[Mike the Strike]

On Sep 10, 4:00*am, Scott > wrote:
> On 9-9-2011 21:53, Walt Connelly wrote:> There is a well documented, and true story where I fly of a female pilot
> > who found a small snake in the cockpit after she took off. *She remained
> > calm, flew the tow, released and having grabbed the snake, opened the
> > window and ejected same. *I'm sure that was one confused snake on the
> > way to the ground.
>
> > Now what city boys out there would have messed their pants and screamed
> > like a little girl had the same thing happened to them?
>
> > Walt
>
> Depends on the snake variety :)

The ground squirrels burrowing under my hangar at The Tucson Soaring
Club have recently all been eaten by rattlesnakes. I am quite happy
with the arrangement, except the fat and happy snakes can't get out
and curl up round my glider. I relocate them when I can, but
sometimes am forced to speak to them severely.

Mike

[Werner Schmidt]

Hallo Ramy, you wrote at 09.10.2011 00:49

> I wonder if some of the many unexplained fatal accidents can be
> attributed to bees/snakes/spiders/mice etc. No need to be alergic,
> panic may be sufficient to incapacitate...

so the solution of the problem is:

"don't panic!"

SCNR ...

but, seriously: one should to learn to overcome any beginning feeling of
panic to stay calm and maintain his ability of reacting in a rational
manner. One way to achieve this is mental training. Imagine situations
which could lead you into panic. Play through all the options you have;
do this with different settings. Do it repetitively. Ask experienced
pilots how they dealt with similar situations, include their answers in
your imagination. You'll build a couple of possible reactions in the
imagined situations, which can be recalled if you experience such a
situation in reality - and you are mentally used to those situations.
This will make the appearance of panic much more improbable and
effective reactions more probable.

Surely, simulator training is another way to achieve this. But mental
training is a thing you can do (nearly) wherever you are.

regards
Werner

[Dan Marotta]

Hey, Al! Was that *our* LS-6 where you had that adventure?

My allergy to wasp stings was discovered in 1971. In 1975, I had one make
its presence known in the cockpit of an Air Force T-33. Since I hadn't
taken off yet, I raised the canopy and shooed him out. I, too, now carry an
EpiPen...


"Albert Thomas" > wrote in message
...
On Sep 8, 7:41 pm, Carl B > wrote:
> > > >Modern gliders give very little indications of a stall (another
> > > >reason
> > > >why training in old clunkers like the 2-33 is counterproductive). Add
> > > >a little distraction or a higher priority task (Bee in the cockpit!)
>
> Is a bee in the cockpit enough of a distraction or a higher priority
> task than flying
> the aircraft. If you think so you should reread "Fate is the Hunter".
>
> Carl B

I have a severe reaction to bee stings. I'm pretty careful about it
and haven't been stung in over 30 years. I carried an "EpiPen" with me
to contests or anywhere where I was traveling away from prompt medical
attention. But I didn't carry it in the cockpit back then. A sting to
the neck or upper torso would probably give me an hour or less to live
without medical attention. I had a mad bee enter the cockpit while I
was at 9K feet on task at a regional contest near Colorado Springs
about 10 years ago back. It might has well been a live hand grenade in
the cockpit as far as I was concerned. I was in contact with the C/S
tower (10 miles east) and was close to calliing an inflight emergency
with request for emergency landing with standby medical attention just
before I managed to kill the bee. During that time I also considered
bailing out of the aircraft to get away from the bee. Yes, I was
flying the sailplane the whole time (not very coordinated though) but
that bee had my full attention. After that happened one of my EpiPen
is always in my car when I drive and in my aircraft when I fly.

A mad bee in the cockpit is a different kind of event for those of us
for whom a sting could be a fatal event.

Al T

[jacksonstephenson]

In my opinion riding a aircraft one can feel the nature & will definitely enjoy it.But,one thing is sure that riding a aircraft is not a easy thing.I hope in future you get the chance of riding the plane.