Artificial Horizon – HELP!

[Mike Mike Ground]

This winter’s projects include adding an artificial horizon (AH) and
PowerFlarm to my panel. I am trying to determine which AH would be
best suited for occasional use in XC soaring flights. It would be
very helpful to hear from pilots with experience using AH in gliders.
Attributes I think would be important include short power up time and
ability to deal with unusual attitudes. So far, I have read about
these products:

Dynon Avionics EFIS-D6 (http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/
D6_intro.html)
PCFlightsystems eGyro-2 (http://www.pcflightsystems.com/)
MGL Avionics AV-1 (http://www.mglavionics.co.za/).

Comments on these and any others would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Paul Remde]

Hi Mike,

I haven't flown with any of those, but I do sell 2 products that may be of
interest.

LXNAV AHRS (for use with LX8000, LX8080 or LX9000
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/lxnav.htm

TruTrak Pictorial Turn & Bank
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/trutrak.htm

The Pictorial Turn & Bank is not an artificial horizon, but works great for
keeping the wings level if you inadvertently get caught in clouds.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

"Mike Mike Ground" > wrote in message
...
This winter’s projects include adding an artificial horizon (AH) and
PowerFlarm to my panel. I am trying to determine which AH would be
best suited for occasional use in XC soaring flights. It would be
very helpful to hear from pilots with experience using AH in gliders.
Attributes I think would be important include short power up time and
ability to deal with unusual attitudes. So far, I have read about
these products:

Dynon Avionics EFIS-D6 (http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/
D6_intro.html)
PCFlightsystems eGyro-2 (http://www.pcflightsystems.com/)
MGL Avionics AV-1 (http://www.mglavionics.co.za/).

Comments on these and any others would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[John Smith]

It depends on what you want it for. If you're planning to do intentional
serious cloud flying, then you should be aware that none of the devices
you've mentioned is TSOed. Legal issues aside, I wouldn't put my life in
the hands of a device of which I don't exactly know how reliably it
performs.

If however you're just looking for a safety device, then probably all of
them will let you to keep the wings level. You could also consider to
buy a used T&B (the classic form, not a turn coordinator!). These speed
up reasonably fast, are extremely reliable and deal fine with any
attitude. You'd need some training, though, to be safe with a T&B.

[weersch[_2_]]

Check out LK8000
Build in Turn and Bank.
Best thing: It's free.
See manual at page 81
http://www.bware.it/LK8000/LK_8000_22_Handbuch.pdf

Of course not suitable for intentional cloud flying as already
mentioned in other postings.

[PCool]

Please do not confuse the fake TRI (turn rate indicator) in LK8000 with a
real Horizon.
The fake TRI is (as well explained in the manual):
1) Late in response, 1-2 seconds
2) Wrong when wind is not correctly inserted or previously calculated
3) It is using the GPS data for the heading, and thus if GPS is loosing the
fix, it won't work

I personally think that - for us with no Artificial Horizon aboard - there
are times when we get caught inside a cloud that before going into panic
switching to the TRI page is better than nothing. But I would consider it as
the last of resources.
Nevertheless, I thank the author who did it in the xcsoar project still some
years ago, John Wharington probably.
LK only reused that part of the code in fact.

paolo


"weersch" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
Check out LK8000
Build in Turn and Bank.
Best thing: It's free.
See manual at page 81
http://www.bware.it/LK8000/LK_8000_22_Handbuch.pdf

Of course not suitable for intentional cloud flying as already
mentioned in other postings.

[Tim Mara]

If you have room for one you can buy stanrda aircraft AH's that do not
require inverters....I offer some relatively inexpensive non TSO'stypes on
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/aircraft_instruments_compass_air.htm
I have not flown with the MGL Horizons but have sold several of these and
had no complaints
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/mgl_instruments_instrument_suppl.htm
it is simple to install and by compairison to a standard aircraft Electric
Artificial Horizon is cheap.....say nothing of the small 57mm aircarft AH's
The LX8000 and LX9000 now also offer AHRS as an option keeping these
instruments again a step ahead of every other flight computer or navigation
system I do offer both as well....and will have one in my next 304S....
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/lx_nav_lx8000_lx9000_nano_flight.htm
tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com

"Mike Mike Ground" > wrote in message
...
This winter’s projects include adding an artificial horizon (AH) and
PowerFlarm to my panel. I am trying to determine which AH would be
best suited for occasional use in XC soaring flights. It would be
very helpful to hear from pilots with experience using AH in gliders.
Attributes I think would be important include short power up time and
ability to deal with unusual attitudes. So far, I have read about
these products:

Dynon Avionics EFIS-D6 (http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/
D6_intro.html)
PCFlightsystems eGyro-2 (http://www.pcflightsystems.com/)
MGL Avionics AV-1 (http://www.mglavionics.co.za/).

Comments on these and any others would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[Ramy]

On Sep 27, 1:48*pm, "Tim Mara" > wrote:
> If you have room for one you can buy stanrda aircraft AH's that do not
> require inverters....I offer some relatively inexpensive non TSO'stypes onhttp://www.wingsandwheels.com/aircraft_instruments_compass_air.htm
> I have not flown with the MGL Horizons but have sold several of these and
> had no complaintshttp://www.wingsandwheels.com/mgl_instruments_instrument_suppl.htm
> it is simple to install and by compairison to a standard aircraft Electric
> Artificial Horizon is cheap.....say nothing of the small 57mm aircarft AH's
> The LX8000 and LX9000 now also offer AHRS as an option keeping these
> instruments again a step ahead of every other flight computer or navigation
> system I do offer both as well....and will have one in my next 304S....http://www.wingsandwheels.com/lx_nav_lx8000_lx9000_nano_flight.htm
> tim
> Please visit the Wings & Wheels website atwww.wingsandwheels.com
>
> "Mike Mike Ground" > wrote in ...
> This winter s projects include adding an artificial horizon (AH) and
> PowerFlarm to my panel. * I am trying to determine which AH would be
> best suited for occasional use in XC soaring flights. *It would be
> very helpful to hear from pilots with experience using AH in gliders.
> Attributes I think would be important include short power up time and
> ability to deal with unusual attitudes. * * So far, I have read about
> these products:
>
> Dynon Avionics EFIS-D6 (http://www.dynonavionics.com/docs/
> D6_intro.html)
> PCFlightsystems eGyro-2 (http://www.pcflightsystems.com/)
> MGL Avionics AV-1 (http://www.mglavionics.co.za/).
>
> Comments on these and any others would be greatly appreciated. *Thanks

I've been flying with the TruTrak T&B for over 5 years and highly
recomend it. Cost is reasonable (around $500 as I recall), no battery
issues since you keep it off until you need it, and it turns on
instantly. It is also very easy to install as it only needs power and
an on/off switch. It helped me tremendously at least twice so far,
once when lost sight of terrain due to heavy smoke, and once when got
caught on top in wave. Just like a parachute, you should never really
need it, but it is a big reassurance to have one when flying in wave
or under a strong cloud street.

Ramy

Ramy

[Bill D]

On Sep 27, 1:49*pm, John Smith > wrote:
> It depends on what you want it for. If you're planning to do intentional
> serious cloud flying, then you should be aware that none of the devices
> you've mentioned is TSOed. Legal issues aside, I wouldn't put my life in
> the hands of a device of which I don't exactly know how reliably it
> performs.
>
> If however you're just looking for a safety device, then probably all of
> them will let you to keep the wings level. You could also consider to
> buy a used T&B (the classic form, not a turn coordinator!). These speed
> up reasonably fast, are extremely reliable and deal fine with any
> attitude. You'd need some training, though, to be safe with a T&B.

Don't get too enthralled with TSO'd devices. It's little more than
the FAA's "good housekeeping seal". A fair percentage of airplanes
routinely doing "hard IFR" have non-TSO'd gyro instruments installed.

A TSO simply means the manufacturer submitted paperwork showing the
device met the minimum standards for a functional device. I've had
more reliability problems with TSO'd instruments than the other
variety or about a 400 hour time-to-failure. I had so many gyro
failures over the years, I kept Sporty's black suction cup disks in
the side pocket to cover failing instruments. The only real safety
"device" is very good partial panel skills.

From what I hear, Dynon instruments are far better than those TSO'd
gyros.

[Avron[_2_]]

Hi Mike,

I had a RC Allan electric gyro for 7 years.
It was the best. I was most confident with it. It was giving you
correct reading on all 3 axis, so you could look at one small area to
have your situation.
The problem was high current drain, and I had to watch a voltage meter
and clear the clouds before loosing it.
It also take some time till it is ready to be used (a minute or 2)

I moved to a new glider and last year installed TruTrak T&B.
This can be turned on all all the time - low power consuming.
It is ready in 1 second.
The problems with it that it is not full roll, it stops at a certain
bank. Normally for thermalling you would like to turn steeper.
It also not an horizon - make more stress on you. have to guess your
pitch by the speed reading.

Whatever you choose, you will need a lot of practice in small see
through clouds before trying the full gray.
BTW, it can be very dark inside. If that happens - level out.

Avron Tal