More on Delorme InReach Satellite Tracker

[Frank Paynter[_2_]]

The Delorme InReach Satellite Tracker is now available for pre-order
on their website. Unfortunately, they apparently decided that the
minimum update interval would be 10 minutes, the same as the SPOT
tracker many of us use now. It is also MUCH more expensive for
initial purchase, and (I think) MUCH more expensive on an annual
basis.

The original tech specs for this unit showed a 2 minute interval, and
many of us in the soaring community voiced our objections to the
change to 10 minutes - bummer.

TA

[Ramy]

On Sep 29, 6:33*am, Frank Paynter > wrote:
> The Delorme InReach Satellite Tracker is now available for pre-order
> on their website. *Unfortunately, they apparently decided that the
> minimum update interval would be 10 minutes, the same as the SPOT
> tracker many of us use now. *It is also MUCH more expensive for
> initial purchase, and (I think) MUCH more expensive on an annual
> basis.
>
> The original tech specs for this unit showed a 2 minute interval, and
> many of us in the soaring community voiced our objections to the
> change to 10 minutes - bummer.
>
> TA

Thanks for the update. Will it report altitude? From the press
release, it does not sound much more expensive than Spot ($250)
http://www.delorme.com/about/pressreleases/inreach.htm

Ramy

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

The device does look interesting. I like the ability to do 2-way messages.

I don't like that you need to have a Android device or DeLorme PN-60w GPS to
use with it. I wonder if they have any plans for an iPhone version.

Paul Remde

"Ramy" > wrote in message
...
On Sep 29, 6:33 am, Frank Paynter > wrote:
> The Delorme InReach Satellite Tracker is now available for pre-order
> on their website. Unfortunately, they apparently decided that the
> minimum update interval would be 10 minutes, the same as the SPOT
> tracker many of us use now. It is also MUCH more expensive for
> initial purchase, and (I think) MUCH more expensive on an annual
> basis.
>
> The original tech specs for this unit showed a 2 minute interval, and
> many of us in the soaring community voiced our objections to the
> change to 10 minutes - bummer.
>
> TA

Thanks for the update. Will it report altitude? From the press
release, it does not sound much more expensive than Spot ($250)
http://www.delorme.com/about/pressreleases/inreach.htm

Ramy

[[email protected][_2_]]

I have the SPOT Connect which works with both iPhone and Android. It is a adequate tracker but has some downsides. You have to have a smartphone to activate tracking and send messages other than an SOS so it your phone dies you are out of luck. The other issue is battery life - since it uses Bluetooth to connect your phone is sucks batteries, I am getting only about 12-15 hours usage out of a set of lithium batteries. They just provided a firmware update which is supposed to address the battery issue - we will see. The other issue is email confirmation which I see the Delorme offers. You send off an email and the only way to see if it was actually sent is to include yourself as a email recipient. On the plus side it is only $149 to buy and $149/year for the service.

[Morgan[_2_]]

I've been using the Beta version of the InReach as part of their beta
program. I'm under NDA, so can't disclose much about it other than to
confirm the known specs that are being discussed.

It does indeed report gps altitude with it's track points. Heading and
speed too. Very cool!

I've used it exclusively in stand-alone mode while flying or biking.
So while you get extensive features by pairing it with an Android
device, it is every bit as functional as a Spot or Spot 2 as a
standalone device. Feedback from the device is much better than SPOT
with indicators for when Satellite coverage is not available. For the
Beta test, the messaging delivery has been fantastic, so I think
they've got a good infrastructure going.

There is room for polishing and improving, but it will be a viable
competitor to SPOT and offers quite a bit more capability. It's great
to have some competition in the space.

Morgan

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

It looks very interesting indeed.

It will be very interesting to see if it will be possible for programmers to
access the position data as done by Mark Hawkins and Frank Paynter for the
SPOT-2. The SPOT-2 has really become the standard at soaring contests. It
was awesome to be able to see everyone's position displayed on a large
screen at Parowan last year. I hope it will be possible to display both
SPOT-2 and DeLorme InReach data on the same map in the future.

Paul Remde

"Morgan" > wrote in message
...
> I've been using the Beta version of the InReach as part of their beta
> program. I'm under NDA, so can't disclose much about it other than to
> confirm the known specs that are being discussed.
>
> It does indeed report gps altitude with it's track points. Heading and
> speed too. Very cool!
>
> I've used it exclusively in stand-alone mode while flying or biking.
> So while you get extensive features by pairing it with an Android
> device, it is every bit as functional as a Spot or Spot 2 as a
> standalone device. Feedback from the device is much better than SPOT
> with indicators for when Satellite coverage is not available. For the
> Beta test, the messaging delivery has been fantastic, so I think
> they've got a good infrastructure going.
>
> There is room for polishing and improving, but it will be a viable
> competitor to SPOT and offers quite a bit more capability. It's great
> to have some competition in the space.
>
> Morgan

[cfinn]

While we're adding InReach, we should also add APRS to the map. APRS
service is free and has very good coverage. A basic system with
transmit only is cheaper than a SPOT. For a little more, you can have
2-way digital communications. The same radio can also be used for
voice communications, including autopatch access to the normal phone
system. I know, I know - you need a technician or higher amateur
license. I think anyone that has been able to pass a flight written
can easily pass the Tech exam. The questions re all available on line.
You could study them during a weekend or a few evenings and take the
exam for $15.

Charlie
AK4IA

On Sep 30, 12:19*pm, "Paul Remde" > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> It looks very interesting indeed.
>
> It will be very interesting to see if it will be possible for programmers to
> access the position data as done by Mark Hawkins and Frank Paynter for the
> SPOT-2. *The SPOT-2 has really become the standard at soaring contests. *It
> was awesome to be able to see everyone's position displayed on a large
> screen at Parowan last year. *I hope it will be possible to display both
> SPOT-2 and DeLorme InReach data on the same map in the future.
>
> Paul Remde

[Morgan[_2_]]

Delorme has huge opportunity here to expose a public API for
accessing data. I work for Apigee.com and exposing the power of APIs
to providers and empowering developers is our business. As such I've
been trying to push Delorme to expose an API and offering support
where I can. I hope that they do elect to expose access via APIs as
they've got a lot more data available than the SPOT systems, but they
need external developers to create the cool apps to leverage that
information.

I know there have been many calls on their blog to expose data and
access via an API. I suspect that exposing it wasn't part of their
initial roadmap and they've focused on the obvious consumer need for a
map with dots and data as a first step.

The good news is that the data is there, structured and readily
accessible, so it won't be too much of a stretch to expose it via some
sort of public API.


>
> It will be very interesting to see if it will be possible for programmers to
> access the position data as done by Mark Hawkins and Frank Paynter for the
> SPOT-2. *The SPOT-2 has really become the standard at soaring contests. *It
> was awesome to be able to see everyone's position displayed on a large
> screen at Parowan last year. *I hope it will be possible to display both
> SPOT-2 and DeLorme InReach data on the same map in the future.
>

[Renny[_2_]]

On Sep 30, 10:00*am, Morgan > wrote:
> I've been using the Beta version of the InReach as part of their beta
> program. *I'm under NDA, so can't disclose much about it other than to
> confirm the known specs that are being discussed.
>
> It does indeed report gps altitude with it's track points. Heading and
> speed too. *Very cool!
>
> I've used it exclusively in stand-alone mode while flying or biking.
> So while you get extensive features by pairing it with an Android
> device, it is every bit as functional as a Spot or Spot 2 as a
> standalone device. *Feedback from the device is much better than SPOT
> with indicators for when Satellite coverage is not available. *For the
> Beta test, the messaging delivery has been fantastic, so I think
> they've got a good infrastructure going.
>
> There is room for polishing and improving, but it will be a viable
> competitor to SPOT and offers quite a bit more capability. *It's great
> to have some competition in the space.
>
> Morgan

I just took a look at their website and this device does look very
interesting. That being said, the monthly fee for the SOS capability
and unlimited tracking is $24.95 (or $300/year) and I do believe that
this monthly fee may discourage many glider pilots from considering
this device when SPOT charges an annual fee of $150. for these types
of services.

We shall see....

Thx - Renny.

[Frank Paynter[_2_]]

On Sep 30, 12:00*pm, Morgan > wrote:
> I've been using the Beta version of the InReach as part of their beta
> program. *I'm under NDA, so can't disclose much about it other than to
> confirm the known specs that are being discussed.
>
> It does indeed report gps altitude with it's track points. Heading and
> speed too. *Very cool!
>
> I've used it exclusively in stand-alone mode while flying or biking.
> So while you get extensive features by pairing it with an Android
> device, it is every bit as functional as a Spot or Spot 2 as a
> standalone device. *Feedback from the device is much better than SPOT
> with indicators for when Satellite coverage is not available. *For the
> Beta test, the messaging delivery has been fantastic, so I think
> they've got a good infrastructure going.
>
> There is room for polishing and improving, but it will be a viable
> competitor to SPOT and offers quite a bit more capability. *It's great
> to have some competition in the space.
>
> Morgan

Morgan,

Can you confirm that the actual device has a minimum update interval
of 10 minutes? The original spec called for 2 minutes, which would
have made it just about ideal for glider XC tracking. At 10 minutes,
however, it is no better than SPOT1/2 and a good bit more expensive.

Frank

[Morgan Hall]

Hi Frank,

My experience so far had been that the tracking intervals was fixed at
10 minutes. They did seem to have custom options that would allow
finer grained tracking updates, but I don't think they have been
implemented yet.

As a standalone device it is very comparable to spot devices. The two
way messaging when paired with an android device has huge potential,
but admittedly goes beyond our needs for xc tracking.

We will just have to see what changes and features they launch the
final version with. They have been pretty responsive to input so far,
but I know that they need to draw a line and release it. So we will
likely see more and more features opened up since they have built
themselves a platform that will expand pretty easily.

Pricing is going to be an interesting factor in adoption i think.
Market it at a comparable price to spot, you will probably get some
people to jump over because of the altitude, heading and velocity
info. At the current price point, I don't think they will have as much
luck.

Morgan

[Frank Paynter[_2_]]

On Oct 2, 10:53*am, Morgan Hall > wrote:
> Hi Frank,
>
> My experience so far had been that the tracking intervals was fixed at
> 10 minutes. They did seem to have custom options that would allow
> finer grained tracking updates, but I don't think they have been
> implemented yet.
>
> As a standalone device it is very comparable to spot devices. The two
> way messaging when paired with an android device has huge potential,
> but admittedly goes beyond our needs for xc tracking.
>
> We will just have to see what changes and features they launch the
> final version with. They have been pretty responsive to input so far,
> but I know that they need to draw a line and release it. So we will
> likely see more and more features opened up since they have built
> themselves a platform that will expand pretty easily.
>
> Pricing is going to be an interesting factor in adoption i think.
> Market it at a comparable price to spot, you will probably get some
> people to jump over because of the altitude, heading and velocity
> info. At the current price point, I don't think they will have as much
> luck.
>
> Morgan

Morgan,

Yes, I agree - at the present price point, with 10 minute minimum
interval, they are probably not competitive in the XC tracking market
(gliders, hang-gliders, parasails, etc).

IMHO there are two main drivers for satellite trackers in XC
competitions. The first and most important is the safety aspect -
satellite trackers provide (almost) global coverage and work when all
other communications links are unavailable. I have personally
experienced a SPOT-only retrieve (2010 in Texas) where my cellphone
didn't work and I couldn't contact a towplane, but my SPOT "Help"
signal got through to my crew. Since then we have seen other similar
occurrences. AFAIK, we haven't yet seen a SPOT "save" in XC soaring,
but it is sure to happen. The second driver is for near-real-time
display of glider positions on contest tasks, and SPOT 'sort of' works
for this, and it is a heck of a lot better than anything we have had
before SPOT and HawkeTracking (full disclosure: I am co-owner of
Hawke Tracking along with Mark Hawkins, and I foolishly spent all my
profits from the last three years on a hamburger at McDonalds). The
lack of more rapid updates, the lack of GPS altitude reporting, and
some gratuitous data delays thrown in by the SPOT folks have hurt the
display aspect significantly, but have not hindered or degraded the
safety/outlanding notification performance at all.

Bottom line on all this: SPOT wins over InReach until/unless InReach
offers more rapid updates and/or more timely access to position/
altitude data. Even then, all SPOT would have to do is open up the
pipe for GPS altitude and lower the minimum interval and they would be
right back on top. If InReach were to gain some market traction in
the XC community (gliders, hang-gliders, motorcycling, parasailers),
it probably would not take much to integrate InReach data into current
HawkeTracking maps (I'm speaking out of school here - Mark is the
expert).

Frank (TA)

[Tom Serkowski]

On 10/7/11 4:48 PM, Frank Paynter wrote:
> Yes, I agree - at the present price point, with 10 minute minimum
> interval, they are probably not competitive in the XC tracking market
> (gliders, hang-gliders, parasails, etc).

Um, doesn't position, altitude, heading and speed every 10 provide the
equivalent of a much better interval than just position every 10 minutes?

I'm guessing the cost is tied to the more expensive Iridium service.
But I'm hoping that as traffic increases, the cost may go down ...unless
profits take precedence.

-Tom