General Aviation Dead?

[Quaalude]

"I look with sadness on the Cessna with bees nests in its air vents, or
the Mooney sitting on its rims with critters running in and out of it,
and the Cessna 150, faded and gutted like a fish. I ask myself, how did
it get to this? How could someone let their plane ´die¡ this way?"

<http://seebarryfly.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/is-the-death-of-general-aviation-%E2%80%9Cplane%E2%80%9D-to-see/>

[Tom[_15_]]

On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:39:34 -0400, Quaalude wrote:

> "I look with sadness on the Cessna with bees nests in its air vents, or
> the Mooney sitting on its rims with critters running in and out of it,
> and the Cessna 150, faded and gutted like a fish. I ask myself, how did
> it get to this? How could someone let their plane ´die¡ this way?"
>
> <http://seebarryfly.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/is-the-death-of-general-aviation-%E2%80%9Cplane%E2%80%9D-to-see/>

GA on the decline? Absolutely. GA making adjustments to thwart that
decline. Hardly. The best/worst example is the Sport Pilot debacle and
the supposed emergence of "inexpensive" LSA. The LSA has gained some
ground with geezers who have flunked their medicals but driven a
resurgence of GA? Give me a break.

GA dead? NO. Dying? Like an octogenarian, it's only a matter of time.

[Aceâ™ [_3_]]

On Oct 10, 10:51*am, Tom > wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:39:34 -0400, Quaalude wrote:
> > "I look with sadness on the Cessna with bees nests in its air vents, or
> > the Mooney sitting on its rims with critters running in and out of it,
> > and the Cessna 150, faded and gutted like a fish. I ask myself, how did
> > it get to this? How could someone let their plane die this way?"
>
> > <http://seebarryfly.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/is-the-death-of-general-a....>
>
> GA on the decline? Absolutely. GA making adjustments to thwart that
> decline. Hardly. The best/worst example is the Sport Pilot debacle and
> the supposed emergence of "inexpensive" LSA. The LSA has gained some
> ground with geezers who have flunked their medicals but driven a
> resurgence of GA? Give me a break.
>
> GA dead? NO. Dying? Like an octogenarian, it's only a matter of time.

Golly, Tom, do you live in GA the same as MU? lol

A*

[MU]

On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 21:28:29 -0700 (PDT), Aceâ™* wrote:

> On Oct 10, 10:51Â*am, Tom > wrote:
>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:39:34 -0400, Quaalude wrote:
>>> "I look with sadness on the Cessna with bees nests in its air vents, or
>>> the Mooney sitting on its rims with critters running in and out of it,
>>> and the Cessna 150, faded and gutted like a fish. I ask myself, how did
>>> it get to this? How could someone let their plane die this way?"
>>
>>> <http://seebarryfly.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/is-the-death-of-general-a...>
>>
>> GA on the decline? Absolutely. GA making adjustments to thwart that
>> decline. Hardly. The best/worst example is the Sport Pilot debacle and
>> the supposed emergence of "inexpensive" LSA. The LSA has gained some
>> ground with geezers who have flunked their medicals but driven a
>> resurgence of GA? Give me a break.
>>
>> GA dead? NO. Dying? Like an octogenarian, it's only a matter of time.
>
> Golly, Tom, do you live in GA the same as MU? lol
>
> A*

Golly Acey I haven't lived in Georgia since 2005. *LOL*

Please keep up like a good demon-troll should.
--
http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php#

[Tom[_15_]]

On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:16:41 -0400, MU wrote:

> On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 21:28:29 -0700 (PDT), Aceâ™* wrote:
>
>> On Oct 10, 10:51Â*am, Tom > wrote:
>>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:39:34 -0400, Quaalude wrote:
>>>> "I look with sadness on the Cessna with bees nests in its air vents, or
>>>> the Mooney sitting on its rims with critters running in and out of it,
>>>> and the Cessna 150, faded and gutted like a fish. I ask myself, how did
>>>> it get to this? How could someone let their plane die this way?"
>>>
>>>> <http://seebarryfly.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/is-the-death-of-general-a...>
>>>
>>> GA on the decline? Absolutely. GA making adjustments to thwart that
>>> decline. Hardly. The best/worst example is the Sport Pilot debacle and
>>> the supposed emergence of "inexpensive" LSA. The LSA has gained some
>>> ground with geezers who have flunked their medicals but driven a
>>> resurgence of GA? Give me a break.
>>>
>>> GA dead? NO. Dying? Like an octogenarian, it's only a matter of time.
>>
>> Golly, Tom, do you live in GA the same as MU? lol
>>
>> A*
>
> Golly Acey I haven't lived in Georgia since 2005. *LOL*
>
> Please keep up like a good demon-troll should.

Regardless of whether GA is in GA or in CA or FL or The Isle Of Wight,
it's dying.

The so-called inexpensive LSA new is typically over $100,000 with
extensive maintenance, fuel and other associated costs. Then with your
crappy Sport Pilot license, you can fly in circles, daylight and good
weather only and enjoy $300 hamburgers.

Since a medical is not required, there is no limitation on age or
capabilities, you can drop dead in the air when you would be denied a
drive's license.

But, hey, let's not limit air craziness to non racing aviation. Here we
have a geezer allowed to race over the heads of thousands and when he
kills a handful and maims a churchful, it's "metal fatigue". No, not the
metal in his head either.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/16/national/main20107634.shtml

Move the *children*, those who have not been chopped up by the flying
debris.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXjzMP-1Q-g

[MU]

On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 11:36:49 -0400, Tom wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:16:41 -0400, MU wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 21:28:29 -0700 (PDT), Aceâ™* wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 10, 10:51Â*am, Tom > wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:39:34 -0400, Quaalude wrote:
>>>>> "I look with sadness on the Cessna with bees nests in its air vents, or
>>>>> the Mooney sitting on its rims with critters running in and out of it,
>>>>> and the Cessna 150, faded and gutted like a fish. I ask myself, how did
>>>>> it get to this? How could someone let their plane die this way?"
>>>>
>>>>> <http://seebarryfly.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/is-the-death-of-general-a...>
>>>>
>>>> GA on the decline? Absolutely. GA making adjustments to thwart that
>>>> decline. Hardly. The best/worst example is the Sport Pilot debacle and
>>>> the supposed emergence of "inexpensive" LSA. The LSA has gained some
>>>> ground with geezers who have flunked their medicals but driven a
>>>> resurgence of GA? Give me a break.
>>>>
>>>> GA dead? NO. Dying? Like an octogenarian, it's only a matter of time.
>>>
>>> Golly, Tom, do you live in GA the same as MU? lol
>>>
>>> A*
>>
>> Golly Acey I haven't lived in Georgia since 2005. *LOL*
>>
>> Please keep up like a good demon-troll should.
>
> Regardless of whether GA is in GA or in CA or FL or The Isle Of Wight,
> it's dying.
>
> The so-called inexpensive LSA new is typically over $100,000 with
> extensive maintenance, fuel and other associated costs. Then with your
> crappy Sport Pilot license, you can fly in circles, daylight and good
> weather only and enjoy $300 hamburgers.
>
> Since a medical is not required, there is no limitation on age or
> capabilities, you can drop dead in the air when you would be denied a
> drive's license.
>
> But, hey, let's not limit air craziness to non racing aviation. Here we
> have a geezer allowed to race over the heads of thousands and when he
> kills a handful and maims a churchful, it's "metal fatigue". No, not the
> metal in his head either.
>
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/16/national/main20107634.shtml
>
> Move the *children*, those who have not been chopped up by the flying
> debris.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXjzMP-1Q-g

I haven't renewed my PPL this year and one reason is that the airport I
fly out of is a) under runway construction and b) filled with daffy old
pilots.

Try sharing a single TO/L runway with a bunch of glaucoma-laden morons.
lol. When you choice on TO abort is "which set of mangroves do I ditch
in", you're better off grounded.
--
http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php#

[Keith Willshaw[_3_]]

MU wrote:
>
> I haven't renewed my PPL this year and one reason is that the airport
> I fly out of is a) under runway construction and b) filled with daffy
> old pilots.
>
> Try sharing a single TO/L runway with a bunch of glaucoma-laden
> morons. lol. When you choice on TO abort is "which set of mangroves
> do I ditch in", you're better off grounded.

Reality Check

Active General Aviation Aircraft in the U.S. 1973-2011
Current as of March 2011
Source: FAA

Year No Active Aircraft
2011 224,475
2001 211,446
1991 196,874
1981 213,293
1973 153,311

Doesn't exactly look dead to me.

Keith

[MU]

On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 19:11:43 +0100, Keith Willshaw wrote:

> MU wrote:
>>
>> I haven't renewed my PPL this year and one reason is that the airport
>> I fly out of is a) under runway construction and b) filled with daffy
>> old pilots.
>>
>> Try sharing a single TO/L runway with a bunch of glaucoma-laden
>> morons. lol. When you choice on TO abort is "which set of mangroves
>> do I ditch in", you're better off grounded.
>
> Reality Check
>
> Active General Aviation Aircraft in the U.S. 1973-2011
> Current as of March 2011
> Source: FAA
>
> Year No Active Aircraft
> 2011 224,475
> 2001 211,446
> 1991 196,874
> 1981 213,293
> 1973 153,311
>
> Doesn't exactly look dead to me.
>
> Keith

Dying is not dead. Reality check, truth be known, general aviation is a
dying industry. Every year there are fewer active pilots, "active
airplanes" is a load.

At the airport where I learned to fly in the early '70s there used to be
three flight schools; two were busy enough and the third did some float
training. The tiedown area was covered in airplanes. Now there's one
flight school with a couple of Katanas, and both were tied down off in
a corner the other day when I was there. Maybe a quarter of the old
number of airplanes tied down outside, with a few more in hangars. No
kids at the fence. And this in a city that has seen the population
double in that time.

Transport Canada says that in some areas of the country flight training
is down 50% ( I was a partner Cessna dealer there).

The insurance companies have killed off the flight schools and rentals
in all but the most prosperous locations. The general liability
consciousness of our society has affected mentalities, and the fuel
crunch has done the rest.

I wish I could believe otherwise, but I think it is an unrecoverable
flat spin. . .
--
http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php#

[Tom[_15_]]

On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:20:16 -0400, MU wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 19:11:43 +0100, Keith Willshaw wrote:
>
>> MU wrote:
>>>
>>> I haven't renewed my PPL this year and one reason is that the airport
>>> I fly out of is a) under runway construction and b) filled with daffy
>>> old pilots.
>>>
>>> Try sharing a single TO/L runway with a bunch of glaucoma-laden
>>> morons. lol. When you choice on TO abort is "which set of mangroves
>>> do I ditch in", you're better off grounded.
>>
>> Reality Check
>>
>> Active General Aviation Aircraft in the U.S. 1973-2011
>> Current as of March 2011
>> Source: FAA
>>
>> Year No Active Aircraft
>> 2011 224,475
>> 2001 211,446
>> 1991 196,874
>> 1981 213,293
>> 1973 153,311
>>
>> Doesn't exactly look dead to me.
>>
>> Keith
>
> Dying is not dead. Reality check, truth be known, general aviation is a
> dying industry. Every year there are fewer active pilots, "active
> airplanes" is a load.
>
> At the airport where I learned to fly in the early '70s there used to be
> three flight schools; two were busy enough and the third did some float
> training. The tiedown area was covered in airplanes. Now there's one
> flight school with a couple of Katanas, and both were tied down off in
> a corner the other day when I was there. Maybe a quarter of the old
> number of airplanes tied down outside, with a few more in hangars. No
> kids at the fence. And this in a city that has seen the population
> double in that time.
>
> Transport Canada says that in some areas of the country flight training
> is down 50% ( I was a partner Cessna dealer there).
>
> The insurance companies have killed off the flight schools and rentals
> in all but the most prosperous locations. The general liability
> consciousness of our society has affected mentalities, and the fuel
> crunch has done the rest.
>
> I wish I could believe otherwise, but I think it is an unrecoverable
> flat spin. . .

Do you keep up with Huffman et al?

[MU]

On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:29:55 -0400, Tom wrote:

> Do you keep up with Huffman et al?

Dekkers/Hilliard? I was @ Dekkers recent book signing to call out the
fraud until I was asked to "leave". LOL. Hilliard has been arrested more
than once for whipping up on teenagers, what a pair!

Huffman was bought by a Company Ponzi guy, they love Venice for obvious
reasons. Great facility, er, *was* I should say, the town has more
geezers in it than Marco Island and threex as dangerous.

Less mangroves though.
--
http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php#

[Tom[_15_]]

On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:41:05 -0400, MU wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:29:55 -0400, Tom wrote:
>
>> Do you keep up with Huffman et al?
>
> Dekkers/Hilliard? I was @ Dekkers recent book signing to call out the
> fraud until I was asked to "leave". LOL. Hilliard has been arrested more
> than once for whipping up on teenagers, what a pair!
>
> Huffman was bought by a Company Ponzi guy, they love Venice for obvious
> reasons. Great facility, er, *was* I should say, the town has more
> geezers in it than Marco Island and threex as dangerous.

I was only there once in late 1999/2000 when they had a string of jets
lining the tarmac.

> Less mangroves though.

This is good. :)

[MU]

On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:46:24 -0400, Tom wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:41:05 -0400, MU wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:29:55 -0400, Tom wrote:
>>
>>> Do you keep up with Huffman et al?
>>
>> Dekkers/Hilliard? I was @ Dekkers recent book signing to call out the
>> fraud until I was asked to "leave". LOL. Hilliard has been arrested more
>> than once for whipping up on teenagers, what a pair!
>>
>> Huffman was bought by a Company Ponzi guy, they love Venice for obvious
>> reasons. Great facility, er, *was* I should say, the town has more
>> geezers in it than Marco Island and threex as dangerous.
>
> I was only there once in late 1999/2000 when they had a string of jets
> lining the tarmac.

No flights, few pilots, several on payroll. Imagine that. lol

>> Less mangroves though.
>
> This is good. :)

<http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/KMKY/map/satellite>


--
http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php#

[Keith Willshaw[_3_]]

MU wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 19:11:43 +0100, Keith Willshaw wrote:
>
>> MU wrote:
>>>
>>> I haven't renewed my PPL this year and one reason is that the
>>> airport I fly out of is a) under runway construction and b) filled
>>> with daffy old pilots.
>>>
>>> Try sharing a single TO/L runway with a bunch of glaucoma-laden
>>> morons. lol. When you choice on TO abort is "which set of mangroves
>>> do I ditch in", you're better off grounded.
>>
>> Reality Check
>>
>> Active General Aviation Aircraft in the U.S. 1973-2011
>> Current as of March 2011
>> Source: FAA
>>
>> Year No Active Aircraft
>> 2011 224,475
>> 2001 211,446
>> 1991 196,874
>> 1981 213,293
>> 1973 153,311
>>
>> Doesn't exactly look dead to me.
>>
>> Keith
>
> Dying is not dead. Reality check, truth be known, general aviation is
> a dying industry. Every year there are fewer active pilots, "active
> airplanes" is a load.
>

It reflects those actually flying

Keith

[Tom[_15_]]

On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:59:02 -0400, MU wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:46:24 -0400, Tom wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:41:05 -0400, MU wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:29:55 -0400, Tom wrote:
>>>
>>>> Do you keep up with Huffman et al?
>>>
>>> Dekkers/Hilliard? I was @ Dekkers recent book signing to call out the
>>> fraud until I was asked to "leave". LOL. Hilliard has been arrested more
>>> than once for whipping up on teenagers, what a pair!
>>>
>>> Huffman was bought by a Company Ponzi guy, they love Venice for obvious
>>> reasons. Great facility, er, *was* I should say, the town has more
>>> geezers in it than Marco Island and threex as dangerous.
>>
>> I was only there once in late 1999/2000 when they had a string of jets
>> lining the tarmac.
>
> No flights, few pilots, several on payroll. Imagine that. lol

I thought that was where Atta et al became super-duper Boeing pilots
<dripping sarcasm>

>>> Less mangroves though.
>>
>> This is good. :)
>
> <http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/KMKY/map/satellite>

Never short, never long; no control tower, what fun. <dripping sarcasm>

[MU]

On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 17:14:09 -0400, Tom wrote:

> On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:59:02 -0400, MU wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:46:24 -0400, Tom wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:41:05 -0400, MU wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:29:55 -0400, Tom wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Do you keep up with Huffman et al?
>>>>
>>>> Dekkers/Hilliard? I was @ Dekkers recent book signing to call out the
>>>> fraud until I was asked to "leave". LOL. Hilliard has been arrested more
>>>> than once for whipping up on teenagers, what a pair!
>>>>
>>>> Huffman was bought by a Company Ponzi guy, they love Venice for obvious
>>>> reasons. Great facility, er, *was* I should say, the town has more
>>>> geezers in it than Marco Island and threex as dangerous.
>>>
>>> I was only there once in late 1999/2000 when they had a string of jets
>>> lining the tarmac.
>>
>> No flights, few pilots, several on payroll. Imagine that. lol
>
> I thought that was where Atta et al became super-duper Boeing pilots
> <dripping sarcasm>

Even Dekkers doesn't believe any of that nonsense and he knew Atta
better than anyone. Anyone except Company guys, the Saudis and Macdill.

Dekkers is fluent in German as *is* Atta. In private conversation, when
I knew him after 2001, he would swear up and down that there was
absolutely no way for the hijackers to have accomplished the TT hit.
None. Zero. Nada.

>>>> Less mangroves though.
>>>
>>> This is good. :)
>>
>> <http://flightaware.com/resources/airport/KMKY/map/satellite>
>
> Never short, never long; no control tower, what fun. <dripping sarcasm>

KMKY is laying a second strip. Won't matter, it's a waste of money. the
geezers will taxi out on the wrong ones and land on the outbounds.
*sigh*
--
http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php#

[MU]

On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 22:09:10 +0100, Keith Willshaw wrote:

> MU wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 19:11:43 +0100, Keith Willshaw wrote:
>>
>>> MU wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I haven't renewed my PPL this year and one reason is that the
>>>> airport I fly out of is a) under runway construction and b) filled
>>>> with daffy old pilots.
>>>>
>>>> Try sharing a single TO/L runway with a bunch of glaucoma-laden
>>>> morons. lol. When you choice on TO abort is "which set of mangroves
>>>> do I ditch in", you're better off grounded.
>>>
>>> Reality Check
>>>
>>> Active General Aviation Aircraft in the U.S. 1973-2011
>>> Current as of March 2011
>>> Source: FAA
>>>
>>> Year No Active Aircraft
>>> 2011 224,475
>>> 2001 211,446
>>> 1991 196,874
>>> 1981 213,293
>>> 1973 153,311
>>>
>>> Doesn't exactly look dead to me.
>>>
>>> Keith
>>
>> Dying is not dead. Reality check, truth be known, general aviation is
>> a dying industry. Every year there are fewer active pilots, "active
>> airplanes" is a load.
>>
>
> It reflects those actually flying
>
> Keith

There you go. Start a flight school. Train all those incoming students,
you'll make a fortune. lol
--
http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php#

[Nooffa Subject]

I didn't even know he was sick.
What wars did he serve in?

[Dan[_15_]]

On 10/11/2011 4:53 PM, Nooffa Subject wrote:
> I didn't even know he was sick.
> What wars did he serve in?

He enlisted as Private Aviation in 1923 and was promoted to General
Aviation after WW2. He never left the states.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[tutall]

On Oct 11, 4:45*pm, Dan > wrote:
> On 10/11/2011 4:53 PM, Nooffa Subject wrote:
>
> > I didn't even know he was sick.
> > What wars did he serve in?
>
> * *He enlisted as Private Aviation in 1923 and was promoted to General
> Aviation after WW2. He never left the states.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

He was also at one time a Major of the Pilots Inebriated Through
Alcohol. Better known simply as Major P.I.T.A..

[Dan[_15_]]

On 10/12/2011 8:36 AM, tutall wrote:
> On Oct 11, 4:45 pm, > wrote:
>> On 10/11/2011 4:53 PM, Nooffa Subject wrote:
>>
>>> I didn't even know he was sick.
>>> What wars did he serve in?
>>
>> He enlisted as Private Aviation in 1923 and was promoted to General
>> Aviation after WW2. He never left the states.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> He was also at one time a Major of the Pilots Inebriated Through
> Alcohol. Better known simply as Major P.I.T.A..

Did you know the major flew his first airplane when he was a minor?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[guy]

On Oct 12, 1:48*pm, Dan > wrote:
> On 10/12/2011 8:36 AM, tutall wrote:
>
> > On Oct 11, 4:45 pm, > *wrote:
> >> On 10/11/2011 4:53 PM, Nooffa Subject wrote:
>
> >>> I didn't even know he was sick.
> >>> What wars did he serve in?
>
> >> * * He enlisted as Private Aviation in 1923 and was promoted to General
> >> Aviation after WW2. He never left the states.
>
> >> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> > He was also at one time a Major of the Pilots Inebriated Through
> > Alcohol. Better known simply as Major P.I.T.A..
>
> * *Did you know the major flew his first airplane when he was a minor?
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Coal or iron ore?

Guy

[Dan[_15_]]

On 10/13/2011 2:41 AM, guy wrote:
> On Oct 12, 1:48 pm, > wrote:
>> On 10/12/2011 8:36 AM, tutall wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 11, 4:45 pm, > wrote:
>>>> On 10/11/2011 4:53 PM, Nooffa Subject wrote:
>>
>>>>> I didn't even know he was sick.
>>>>> What wars did he serve in?
>>
>>>> He enlisted as Private Aviation in 1923 and was promoted to General
>>>> Aviation after WW2. He never left the states.
>>
>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>
>>> He was also at one time a Major of the Pilots Inebriated Through
>>> Alcohol. Better known simply as Major P.I.T.A..
>>
>> Did you know the major flew his first airplane when he was a minor?
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> Coal or iron ore?
>
> Guy

Salt.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[guy]

On Oct 13, 1:23*am, Dan > wrote:
> On 10/13/2011 2:41 AM, guy wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 12, 1:48 pm, > *wrote:
> >> On 10/12/2011 8:36 AM, tutall wrote:
>
> >>> On Oct 11, 4:45 pm, > * *wrote:
> >>>> On 10/11/2011 4:53 PM, Nooffa Subject wrote:
>
> >>>>> I didn't even know he was sick.
> >>>>> What wars did he serve in?
>
> >>>> * * *He enlisted as Private Aviation in 1923 and was promoted to General
> >>>> Aviation after WW2. He never left the states.
>
> >>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> >>> He was also at one time a Major of the Pilots Inebriated Through
> >>> Alcohol. Better known simply as Major P.I.T.A..
>
> >> * * Did you know the major flew his first airplane when he was a minor?
>
> >> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> > Coal or iron ore?
>
> > Guy
>
> * *Salt.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Different subject Dan, at what time did you post this (your time)? I
use google and for some reason it is showing your post as 1:23 am
replying to my 2:41 am post!

This post is being sent at 9:58 am BST

Guy

[Jim Wilkins[_2_]]

"guy" > wrote in message
...
On Oct 12, 1:48 pm, Dan > wrote:
> ...>
> Did you know the major flew his first airplane when he was a minor?
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Coal or iron ore?
Guy

Brass

[Dan[_15_]]

On 10/13/2011 6:14 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
> On Oct 12, 1:48 pm, > wrote:
>> ...>
>> Did you know the major flew his first airplane when he was a minor?
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> Coal or iron ore?
> Guy
>
> Brass
>
>

In spherical form.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Dan[_15_]]

On 10/13/2011 3:58 AM, guy wrote:
> On Oct 13, 1:23 am, > wrote:
>> On 10/13/2011 2:41 AM, guy wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 12, 1:48 pm, > wrote:
>>>> On 10/12/2011 8:36 AM, tutall wrote:
>>
>>>>> On Oct 11, 4:45 pm, > wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/11/2011 4:53 PM, Nooffa Subject wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> I didn't even know he was sick.
>>>>>>> What wars did he serve in?
>>
>>>>>> He enlisted as Private Aviation in 1923 and was promoted to General
>>>>>> Aviation after WW2. He never left the states.
>>
>>>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>
>>>>> He was also at one time a Major of the Pilots Inebriated Through
>>>>> Alcohol. Better known simply as Major P.I.T.A..
>>
>>>> Did you know the major flew his first airplane when he was a minor?
>>
>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>
>>> Coal or iron ore?
>>
>>> Guy
>>
>> Salt.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> Different subject Dan, at what time did you post this (your time)? I
> use google and for some reason it is showing your post as 1:23 am
> replying to my 2:41 am post!
>
> This post is being sent at 9:58 am BST
>
> Guy

I am at Z-5, there's no explaining how Google does things. I suppose
the times given are when the post is found by Google.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[tutall]

On Oct 13, 7:17*am, Dan > wrote:
> On 10/13/2011 6:14 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
> > > *wrote in message
> ....
> > On Oct 12, 1:48 pm, > *wrote:
> >> ...>
> >> Did you know the major flew his first airplane when he was a minor?
> >> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> > Coal or iron ore?
> > Guy
>
> > Brass
>
> * *In spherical form.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Large ones that clang?

[Dan[_15_]]

On 10/13/2011 9:48 AM, tutall wrote:
> On Oct 13, 7:17 am, > wrote:
>> On 10/13/2011 6:14 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>
>>> > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> On Oct 12, 1:48 pm, > wrote:
>>>> ...>
>>>> Did you know the major flew his first airplane when he was a minor?
>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>
>>> Coal or iron ore?
>>> Guy
>>
>>> Brass
>>
>> In spherical form.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> Large ones that clang?

And have to be carried in a wheel barrow.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[VOR-DME[_4_]]

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 09:30:42 -0500, Dan wrote:

> On 10/13/2011 3:58 AM, guy wrote:
>> On Oct 13, 1:23 am, > wrote:
>>> On 10/13/2011 2:41 AM, guy wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Oct 12, 1:48 pm, > wrote:
>>>>> On 10/12/2011 8:36 AM, tutall wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 11, 4:45 pm, > wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/11/2011 4:53 PM, Nooffa Subject wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>> I didn't even know he was sick.
>>>>>>>> What wars did he serve in?
>>>
>>>>>>> He enlisted as Private Aviation in 1923 and was promoted to General
>>>>>>> Aviation after WW2. He never left the states.
>>>
>>>>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>
>>>>>> He was also at one time a Major of the Pilots Inebriated Through
>>>>>> Alcohol. Better known simply as Major P.I.T.A..
>>>
>>>>> Did you know the major flew his first airplane when he was a minor?
>>>
>>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>
>>>> Coal or iron ore?
>>>
>>>> Guy
>>>
>>> Salt.
>>>
>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>> Different subject Dan, at what time did you post this (your time)? I
>> use google and for some reason it is showing your post as 1:23 am
>> replying to my 2:41 am post!
>>
>> This post is being sent at 9:58 am BST
>>
>> Guy
>
> I am at Z-5, there's no explaining how Google does things. I suppose
> the times given are when the post is found by Google.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Dan don't feed the trolls. They need attention. It's Usenet!!!

[Jim Wilkins[_2_]]

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 09:55:24 -0500, Dan wrote:

> On 10/13/2011 9:48 AM, tutall wrote:
>> On Oct 13, 7:17 am, > wrote:
>>> On 10/13/2011 6:14 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>
>>>> > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>> On Oct 12, 1:48 pm, > wrote:
>>>>> ...>
>>>>> Did you know the major flew his first airplane when he was a minor?
>>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>
>>>> Coal or iron ore?
>>>> Guy
>>>
>>>> Brass
>>>
>>> In spherical form.
>>>
>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>
>> Large ones that clang?
>
> And have to be carried in a wheel barrow.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Brass. I have brass balls.

[tutall]

On Oct 13, 7:55*am, Dan > wrote:
> On 10/13/2011 9:48 AM, tutall wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 13, 7:17 am, > *wrote:
> >> On 10/13/2011 6:14 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
> >>> > * *wrote in message
> ....
> >>> On Oct 12, 1:48 pm, > * *wrote:
> >>>> ...>
> >>>> Did you know the major flew his first airplane when he was a minor?
> >>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> >>> Coal or iron ore?
> >>> Guy
>
> >>> Brass
>
> >> * * In spherical form.
>
> >> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> > Large ones that clang?
>
> * *And have to be carried in a wheel barrow.
>

Bet they are mostly found in Nantucket.

[Dan[_15_]]

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 12:40:32 -0400, Jim Wilkins wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 09:55:24 -0500, Dan wrote:
>
>> On 10/13/2011 9:48 AM, tutall wrote:
>>> On Oct 13, 7:17 am, > wrote:
>>>> On 10/13/2011 6:14 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>> On Oct 12, 1:48 pm, > wrote:
>>>>>> ...>
>>>>>> Did you know the major flew his first airplane when he was a minor?
>>>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>>
>>>>> Coal or iron ore?
>>>>> Guy
>>>>
>>>>> Brass
>>>>
>>>> In spherical form.
>>>>
>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>
>>> Large ones that clang?
>>
>> And have to be carried in a wheel barrow.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> Brass. I have brass balls.

And have to be carried in a wheel barrow. I got it.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Dan[_15_]]

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 09:48:36 -0700 (PDT), tutall wrote:

> On Oct 13, 7:55*am, Dan > wrote:
>> On 10/13/2011 9:48 AM, tutall wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 13, 7:17 am, > *wrote:
>>>> On 10/13/2011 6:14 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>
>>>>> > * *wrote in message
...
>>>>> On Oct 12, 1:48 pm, > * *wrote:
>>>>>> ...>
>>>>>> Did you know the major flew his first airplane when he was a minor?
>>>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>
>>>>> Coal or iron ore?
>>>>> Guy
>>
>>>>> Brass
>>
>>>> * * In spherical form.
>>
>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>
>>> Large ones that clang?
>>
>> * *And have to be carried in a wheel barrow.
>>
>
> Bet they are mostly found in Nantucket.

In a bucket.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[VOR-DME[_4_]]

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:04:33 -0400, Dan wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 09:48:36 -0700 (PDT), tutall wrote:
>
>> On Oct 13, 7:55*am, Dan > wrote:
>>> On 10/13/2011 9:48 AM, tutall wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Oct 13, 7:17 am, > *wrote:
>>>>> On 10/13/2011 6:14 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> > * *wrote in message
...
>>>>>> On Oct 12, 1:48 pm, > * *wrote:
>>>>>>> ...>
>>>>>>> Did you know the major flew his first airplane when he was a minor?
>>>>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>
>>>>>> Coal or iron ore?
>>>>>> Guy
>>>
>>>>>> Brass
>>>
>>>>> * * In spherical form.
>>>
>>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>
>>>> Large ones that clang?
>>>
>>> * *And have to be carried in a wheel barrow.
>>>
>>
>> Bet they are mostly found in Nantucket.
>
> In a bucket.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

****it. Don't feed the troll. I'll keep him full of ****!

[Dan[_12_]]

On 10/13/2011 12:37 PM, VOR-DME wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:04:33 -0400, Dan wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 09:48:36 -0700 (PDT), tutall wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 13, 7:55 am, > wrote:
>>>> On 10/13/2011 9:48 AM, tutall wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 13, 7:17 am, > wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/13/2011 6:14 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> On Oct 12, 1:48 pm, > wrote:
>>>>>>>> ...>
>>>>>>>> Did you know the major flew his first airplane when he was a minor?
>>>>>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>>
>>>>>>> Coal or iron ore?
>>>>>>> Guy
>>>>
>>>>>>> Brass
>>>>
>>>>>> In spherical form.
>>>>
>>>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>>
>>>>> Large ones that clang?
>>>>
>>>> And have to be carried in a wheel barrow.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Bet they are mostly found in Nantucket.
>>
>> In a bucket.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> ****it. Don't feed the troll. I'll keep him full of ****!

Check the return e-mail, someone is playing.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Matt Wiser]

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 12:46:47 -0500, Dan wrote:

> On 10/13/2011 12:37 PM, VOR-DME wrote:
>> On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:04:33 -0400, Dan wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 09:48:36 -0700 (PDT), tutall wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Oct 13, 7:55 am, > wrote:
>>>>> On 10/13/2011 9:48 AM, tutall wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 13, 7:17 am, > wrote:
>>>>>>> On 10/13/2011 6:14 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> > wrote in message
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> On Oct 12, 1:48 pm, > wrote:
>>>>>>>>> ...>
>>>>>>>>> Did you know the major flew his first airplane when he was a minor?
>>>>>>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Coal or iron ore?
>>>>>>>> Guy
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brass
>>>>>
>>>>>>> In spherical form.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>>>
>>>>>> Large ones that clang?
>>>>>
>>>>> And have to be carried in a wheel barrow.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bet they are mostly found in Nantucket.
>>>
>>> In a bucket.
>>>
>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>
>> ****it. Don't feed the troll. I'll keep him full of ****!
>
> Check the return e-mail, someone is playing.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Thanks for the heads up. It's Clueless Cobb playing with your meat.

[Dan[_15_]]

On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 14:38:44 -0400, Matt Wiser wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 12:46:47 -0500, Dan wrote:
>
>> On 10/13/2011 12:37 PM, VOR-DME wrote:
>>> On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:04:33 -0400, Dan wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 09:48:36 -0700 (PDT), tutall wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 13, 7:55 am, > wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/13/2011 9:48 AM, tutall wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 13, 7:17 am, > wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 10/13/2011 6:14 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> > wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 12, 1:48 pm, > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> ...>
>>>>>>>>>> Did you know the major flew his first airplane when he was a minor?
>>>>>>>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Coal or iron ore?
>>>>>>>>> Guy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Brass
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In spherical form.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Large ones that clang?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And have to be carried in a wheel barrow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bet they are mostly found in Nantucket.
>>>>
>>>> In a bucket.
>>>>
>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>
>>> ****it. Don't feed the troll. I'll keep him full of ****!
>>
>> Check the return e-mail, someone is playing.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> Thanks for the heads up. It's Clueless Cobb playing with your meat.

OK, buddy, where do you get off using facts to prove your point?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[george152]

On 14/10/2011 5:40 a.m., Jim Wilkins wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 09:55:24 -0500, Dan wrote:
>
>> On 10/13/2011 9:48 AM, tutall wrote:
>>> On Oct 13, 7:17 am, > wrote:
>>>> On 10/13/2011 6:14 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>> On Oct 12, 1:48 pm, > wrote:
>>>>>> ...>
>>>>>> Did you know the major flew his first airplane when he was a minor?
>>>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>>
>>>>> Coal or iron ore?
>>>>> Guy
>>>>
>>>>> Brass
>>>>
>>>> In spherical form.
>>>>
>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>
>>> Large ones that clang?
>>
>> And have to be carried in a wheel barrow.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> Brass. I have brass balls.

Have three and you can own a pawn shop :)

[Mxsmanic]

General Aviation is in decline mostly because of cost. A large part of the
former middle class is gone in the United States. Anyone wishing to fly must
either have a great deal of money (e.g., the top 1%) or must be willing to
make gigantic sacrifices to raise the money for flying. Most people don't want
to fly enough to make gigantic sacrifices, and most people don't make much
money, so GA is in decline.

If a prosperous middle class were to reappear, this trend would probably
reverse.

Another problem is the massive regulation of aviation, which raises the price
and creates many other barriers, surmountable and sometimes insurmountable, to
flying. But this is mostly a constant rather than a variable, so it does not
push GA into decline so much as it holds it at an artificially low level.

Some aspects of GA are doing much better than others. The top 1% is still very
interested in flying around on private jets, for example.

[Mr. V]

And let's not forget how the costs of defending against and paying
large judgments for liability insurance have so increased costs that
manufacturers of affordable planes have been either forced out of
business or are no longer able to produce an affordable, entry level
aircraft for GA.

Goodbye, Piper Cub.

[Peter Skelton[_2_]]

On 16/10/2011 11:14 AM, Mr. V wrote:
> And let's not forget how the costs of defending against and paying
> large judgments for liability insurance have so increased costs that
> manufacturers of affordable planes have been either forced out of
> business or are no longer able to produce an affordable, entry level
> aircraft for GA.
>
> Goodbye, Piper Cub.


Nice rant. Here's a bit of reality for you:

Private aircraft are only part of general aviation which, to
over-simplify like wikki, is everything unscheduled. To manufacturers of
aircraft, GA is larger because aircraft used for both scheduled and
unscheduled (like the King air or Otter) get lumped in.

the Cessena 150 cost $7K stripped in 1958, when it came out, comparable
aircraft today are around 140K. Both are roughly half the price of a
single detached house.

The piper cub went out of production in 1947.

--
Peter

[Steve Hix[_2_]]

In article >,
Peter Skelton > wrote:

> On 16/10/2011 11:14 AM, Mr. V wrote:
> > And let's not forget how the costs of defending against and paying
> > large judgments for liability insurance have so increased costs that
> > manufacturers of affordable planes have been either forced out of
> > business or are no longer able to produce an affordable, entry level
> > aircraft for GA.
> >
> > Goodbye, Piper Cub.
>
>
> Nice rant. Here's a bit of reality for you:
>
> Private aircraft are only part of general aviation which, to
> over-simplify like wikki, is everything unscheduled. To manufacturers of
> aircraft, GA is larger because aircraft used for both scheduled and
> unscheduled (like the King air or Otter) get lumped in.
>
> the Cessena 150 cost $7K stripped in 1958, when it came out, comparable
> aircraft today are around 140K. Both are roughly half the price of a
> single detached house.
>
> The piper cub went out of production in 1947.

And it's back in production thanks to a couple different companies, such as
Cubcrafters, running about the price you mentioned above. In the case of
Cubcrafters, several versions, from basic Light Sport to pretty sporty Super Cub
types.

[Aceâ™]

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 13:56:38 +0200, Mxsmanic wrote:

> General Aviation is in decline mostly because of cost. A large part of the
> former middle class is gone in the United States. Anyone wishing to fly must
> either have a great deal of money (e.g., the top 1%) or must be willing to
> make gigantic sacrifices to raise the money for flying. Most people don't want
> to fly enough to make gigantic sacrifices, and most people don't make much
> money, so GA is in decline.
>
> If a prosperous middle class were to reappear, this trend would probably
> reverse.
>
> Another problem is the massive regulation of aviation, which raises the price
> and creates many other barriers, surmountable and sometimes insurmountable, to
> flying. But this is mostly a constant rather than a variable, so it does not
> push GA into decline so much as it holds it at an artificially low level.
>
> Some aspects of GA are doing much better than others. The top 1% is still very
> interested in flying around on private jets, for example.

Mxsmanic=Tom=Mu=Chung=Courtney Brown

I win.

Again.

A*

[Aceâ™]

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 11:05:29 -0700, Steve Hix wrote:

> In article >,
> Peter Skelton > wrote:
>
>> On 16/10/2011 11:14 AM, Mr. V wrote:
>>> And let's not forget how the costs of defending against and paying
>>> large judgments for liability insurance have so increased costs that
>>> manufacturers of affordable planes have been either forced out of
>>> business or are no longer able to produce an affordable, entry level
>>> aircraft for GA.
>>>
>>> Goodbye, Piper Cub.
>>
>> Nice rant. Here's a bit of reality for you:
>>
>> Private aircraft are only part of general aviation which, to
>> over-simplify like wikki, is everything unscheduled. To manufacturers of
>> aircraft, GA is larger because aircraft used for both scheduled and
>> unscheduled (like the King air or Otter) get lumped in.
>>
>> the Cessena 150 cost $7K stripped in 1958, when it came out, comparable
>> aircraft today are around 140K. Both are roughly half the price of a
>> single detached house.
>>
>> The piper cub went out of production in 1947.
>
> And it's back in production thanks to a couple different companies, such as
> Cubcrafters, running about the price you mentioned above. In the case of
> Cubcrafters, several versions, from basic Light Sport to pretty sporty Super Cub
> types.

I know all this. Mr. V is my sockpuppet so STFU.

I win.

Again.

A*

[Peter Skelton[_2_]]

On 16/10/2011 2:05 PM, Steve Hix wrote:
> In >,
> Peter > wrote:
>
>> On 16/10/2011 11:14 AM, Mr. V wrote:
>>> And let's not forget how the costs of defending against and paying
>>> large judgments for liability insurance have so increased costs that
>>> manufacturers of affordable planes have been either forced out of
>>> business or are no longer able to produce an affordable, entry level
>>> aircraft for GA.
>>>
>>> Goodbye, Piper Cub.
>>
>>
>> Nice rant. Here's a bit of reality for you:
>>
>> Private aircraft are only part of general aviation which, to
>> over-simplify like wikki, is everything unscheduled. To manufacturers of
>> aircraft, GA is larger because aircraft used for both scheduled and
>> unscheduled (like the King air or Otter) get lumped in.
>>
>> the Cessena 150 cost $7K stripped in 1958, when it came out, comparable
>> aircraft today are around 140K. Both are roughly half the price of a
>> single detached house.
>>
>> The piper cub went out of production in 1947.
>
> And it's back in production thanks to a couple different companies, such as
> Cubcrafters, running about the price you mentioned above. In the case of
> Cubcrafters, several versions, from basic Light Sport to pretty sporty Super Cub
> types.

The Cubcrafters stuff is Super Cub derivative and much updated, a fine
plane but with no commonality with the original cub.

--
Peter

[Dan[_12_]]

On 10/16/2011 4:55 PM, Peter Skelton wrote:
> On 16/10/2011 2:05 PM, Steve Hix wrote:
>> In >,
>> Peter > wrote:
>>
>>> On 16/10/2011 11:14 AM, Mr. V wrote:
>>>> And let's not forget how the costs of defending against and paying
>>>> large judgments for liability insurance have so increased costs that
>>>> manufacturers of affordable planes have been either forced out of
>>>> business or are no longer able to produce an affordable, entry level
>>>> aircraft for GA.
>>>>
>>>> Goodbye, Piper Cub.
>>>
>>>
>>> Nice rant. Here's a bit of reality for you:
>>>
>>> Private aircraft are only part of general aviation which, to
>>> over-simplify like wikki, is everything unscheduled. To manufacturers of
>>> aircraft, GA is larger because aircraft used for both scheduled and
>>> unscheduled (like the King air or Otter) get lumped in.
>>>
>>> the Cessena 150 cost $7K stripped in 1958, when it came out, comparable
>>> aircraft today are around 140K. Both are roughly half the price of a
>>> single detached house.
>>>
>>> The piper cub went out of production in 1947.
>>
>> And it's back in production thanks to a couple different companies,
>> such as
>> Cubcrafters, running about the price you mentioned above. In the case of
>> Cubcrafters, several versions, from basic Light Sport to pretty sporty
>> Super Cub
>> types.
>
> The Cubcrafters stuff is Super Cub derivative and much updated, a fine
> plane but with no commonality with the original cub.
>

Cub clones are also popular with home builders.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Steve Hix[_2_]]

> On 10/16/2011 4:55 PM, Peter Skelton wrote:
> >
> > The Cubcrafters stuff is Super Cub derivative and much updated, a fine
> > plane but with no commonality with the original cub.

An homage, then, at the least.

[Peter Skelton[_2_]]

On 16/10/2011 9:23 PM, Dan wrote:
> On 10/16/2011 4:55 PM, Peter Skelton wrote:
>> On 16/10/2011 2:05 PM, Steve Hix wrote:
>>> In >,
>>> Peter > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 16/10/2011 11:14 AM, Mr. V wrote:
>>>>> And let's not forget how the costs of defending against and paying
>>>>> large judgments for liability insurance have so increased costs that
>>>>> manufacturers of affordable planes have been either forced out of
>>>>> business or are no longer able to produce an affordable, entry level
>>>>> aircraft for GA.
>>>>>
>>>>> Goodbye, Piper Cub.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nice rant. Here's a bit of reality for you:
>>>>
>>>> Private aircraft are only part of general aviation which, to
>>>> over-simplify like wikki, is everything unscheduled. To
>>>> manufacturers of
>>>> aircraft, GA is larger because aircraft used for both scheduled and
>>>> unscheduled (like the King air or Otter) get lumped in.
>>>>
>>>> the Cessena 150 cost $7K stripped in 1958, when it came out, comparable
>>>> aircraft today are around 140K. Both are roughly half the price of a
>>>> single detached house.
>>>>
>>>> The piper cub went out of production in 1947.
>>>
>>> And it's back in production thanks to a couple different companies,
>>> such as
>>> Cubcrafters, running about the price you mentioned above. In the case of
>>> Cubcrafters, several versions, from basic Light Sport to pretty sporty
>>> Super Cub
>>> types.
>>
>> The Cubcrafters stuff is Super Cub derivative and much updated, a fine
>> plane but with no commonality with the original cub.
>>
>
> Cub clones are also popular with home builders.
>

Are you aware of any that aren't super cub based?


--
Peter

[Peter Skelton[_2_]]

On 17/10/2011 1:41 AM, Steve Hix wrote:
>> On 10/16/2011 4:55 PM, Peter Skelton wrote:
>>>
>>> The Cubcrafters stuff is Super Cub derivative and much updated, a fine
>>> plane but with no commonality with the original cub.
>
> An homage, then, at the least.

Deserved too.

--
Peter

[Dan[_12_]]

On 10/17/2011 6:04 AM, Peter Skelton wrote:
> On 16/10/2011 9:23 PM, Dan wrote:
>> On 10/16/2011 4:55 PM, Peter Skelton wrote:
>>> On 16/10/2011 2:05 PM, Steve Hix wrote:
>>>> In >,
>>>> Peter > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 16/10/2011 11:14 AM, Mr. V wrote:
>>>>>> And let's not forget how the costs of defending against and paying
>>>>>> large judgments for liability insurance have so increased costs that
>>>>>> manufacturers of affordable planes have been either forced out of
>>>>>> business or are no longer able to produce an affordable, entry level
>>>>>> aircraft for GA.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Goodbye, Piper Cub.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nice rant. Here's a bit of reality for you:
>>>>>
>>>>> Private aircraft are only part of general aviation which, to
>>>>> over-simplify like wikki, is everything unscheduled. To
>>>>> manufacturers of
>>>>> aircraft, GA is larger because aircraft used for both scheduled and
>>>>> unscheduled (like the King air or Otter) get lumped in.
>>>>>
>>>>> the Cessena 150 cost $7K stripped in 1958, when it came out,
>>>>> comparable
>>>>> aircraft today are around 140K. Both are roughly half the price of a
>>>>> single detached house.
>>>>>
>>>>> The piper cub went out of production in 1947.
>>>>
>>>> And it's back in production thanks to a couple different companies,
>>>> such as
>>>> Cubcrafters, running about the price you mentioned above. In the
>>>> case of
>>>> Cubcrafters, several versions, from basic Light Sport to pretty sporty
>>>> Super Cub
>>>> types.
>>>
>>> The Cubcrafters stuff is Super Cub derivative and much updated, a fine
>>> plane but with no commonality with the original cub.
>>>
>>
>> Cub clones are also popular with home builders.
>>
>
> Are you aware of any that aren't super cub based?
>
>
I stopped paying attention a long time ago, but I do remember a
company that produced the super and the original. I don't recall if they
provided full kits or just the fuselage frames.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Aceâ™]

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 09:30:47 -0500, Dan wrote:

> I stopped

Get the **** out of alt.vacation.las-vegas asshole.

A*

[BillWhiteInsurance]

I think its a combination of 2 things: The rising cost of fuel, and the recession.
I think its more expensive to fly your own personal plane than it is to fly commercial, solely based on fuel. I also think less and less people have the money required to for upkeep and annual maintenance. Its a sad time for private pilots :(
Bill
Check out our NEW SITE!! (http://www.bwhiteinsurance.com)
On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 16:29:55 -0400, Tom wrote:

Do you keep up with Huffman et al?

Dekkers/Hilliard? I was @ Dekkers recent book signing to call out the
fraud until I was asked to "leave". LOL. Hilliard has been arrested more
than once for whipping up on teenagers, what a pair!

Huffman was bought by a Company Ponzi guy, they love Venice for obvious
reasons. Great facility, er, *was* I should say, the town has more
geezers in it than Marco Island and threex as dangerous.

Less mangroves though.
--
http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php#

[Mxsmanic]

BillWhiteInsurance writes:

> I think its a combination of 2 things: The rising cost of fuel, and the
> recession.
> I think its more expensive to fly your own personal plane than it is to
> fly commercial, solely based on fuel. I also think less and less people
> have the money required to for upkeep and annual maintenance. Its a sad
> time for private pilots :(

For healthy private aviation, you need a substantial middle class, and the
middle class has mostly disappeared now. Apart from a minority of very wealthy
people, the vast majority of the population is now just squeaking by, with no
discretionary income.

[Bug Dout]

BillWhiteInsurance >
writes:

> I think its more expensive to fly your own personal plane than it is to
> fly commercial, solely based on fuel.

This has been true since the 1980s: Arab oil embargoes increased fuel
costs, and airline deregulation decreased airline travel costs.

> I also think less and less people
> have the money required to for upkeep and annual maintenance.

True; less and less people have the money to be middle-class, period. Or
maybe you haven't heard of Occupy Wall Street, etc?

The decline is a lot more than money. When I was growing up (1960s),
flight and space exploration were the exciting things in the news. Now,
it's some drug-addled Hollywood or rap celebrity. Kids now are brought
up shuttled from one team or supervised activity to another, never
developing their own independence, and piloting is a solitary activity.

The one area of GA that is thriving is Experimental aircraft. Several
active forums online, lots of new products at reasonable prices (because
little is TSO'd), fine-performing aircraft at affordable prices.

--
Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength; loving someone
deeply gives you courage.
~ Lao tzu

[[email protected]]

On Monday, October 10, 2011 10:39:34 AM UTC-7, Quaalude wrote:
> "I look with sadness on the Cessna with bees nests in its air vents, or
>
> the Mooney sitting on its rims with critters running in and out of it,
>
> and the Cessna 150, faded and gutted like a fish. I ask myself, how did
>
> it get to this? How could someone let their plane “die” this way?"
>
>
>
> <http://seebarryfly.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/is-the-death-of-general-aviation-%E2%80%9Cplane%E2%80%9D-to-see/>

Unfortunately our capitalist system with out sufficient checks and balances,greedy pilots and general greed is slowly destroying our Republic.We earnestly pray that a dictator will not come to our aid as Hitler helped Germany.. General Aviation:[ HELP ONE ANOTHER ] Think of good neighbor ,not of the greedy dollar, Victor.

[[email protected]]

On Monday, October 10, 2011 10:39:34 AM UTC-7, Quaalude wrote:
> "I look with sadness on the Cessna with bees nests in its air vents, or
>
> the Mooney sitting on its rims with critters running in and out of it,
>
> and the Cessna 150, faded and gutted like a fish. I ask myself, how did
>
> it get to this? How could someone let their plane “die” this way?"
>
>
>
> <http://seebarryfly.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/is-the-death-of-general-aviation-%E2%80%9Cplane%E2%80%9D-to-see/>

[Marten Kemp]

On 10/28/2013 5:03 PM, wrote:
> On Monday, October 10, 2011 10:39:34 AM UTC-7, Quaalude wrote:
>> "I look with sadness on the Cessna with bees nests in its air vents, or
>> the Mooney sitting on its rims with critters running in and out of it,
>> and the Cessna 150, faded and gutted like a fish. I ask myself, how did
>> it get to this? How could someone let their plane “die” this way?"
>>
>> <http://seebarryfly.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/is-the-death-of-general-aviation-%E2%80%9Cplane%E2%80%9D-to-see/>

any event (adverse, unfortunate, inconvenient or just for the
hell of it) + lawyers = lawsuits = increased insurance costs +
regulations, restrictions & paperwork
government = regulation & paperwork = expense for the owner,
operator and manufacturer
EPA = lawsuits, fines and cleanup = expense
"War on terror" = regulation, paperwork and restrictions
land prices for development increase = closed airports
private airports disappearing from charts = fewer places to go

pretty soon it's not quite worth it to go flying and the
value of the airplane has dropped so far that it's not
quite worth trying to sell it

--
-- Marten Kemp (Fix ISP to reply)

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, October 11, 2011 10:36:49 AM UTC-5, Tom wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:16:41 -0400, MU wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 21:28:29 -0700 (PDT), Aceâ™* wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> On Oct 10, 10:51Â*am, Tom > wrote:
>
> >>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:39:34 -0400, Quaalude wrote:
>
> >>>> "I look with sadness on the Cessna with bees nests in its air vents, or
>
> >>>> the Mooney sitting on its rims with critters running in and out of it,
>
> >>>> and the Cessna 150, faded and gutted like a fish. I ask myself, how did
>
> >>>> it get to this? How could someone let their plane die this way?"
>
> >>>
>
> >>>> <http://seebarryfly.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/is-the-death-of-general-a...>
>
> >>>
>
> >>> GA on the decline? Absolutely. GA making adjustments to thwart that
>
> >>> decline. Hardly. The best/worst example is the Sport Pilot debacle and
>
> >>> the supposed emergence of "inexpensive" LSA. The LSA has gained some
>
> >>> ground with geezers who have flunked their medicals but driven a
>
> >>> resurgence of GA? Give me a break.
>
> >>>
>
> >>> GA dead? NO. Dying? Like an octogenarian, it's only a matter of time.
>
> >>
>
> >> Golly, Tom, do you live in GA the same as MU? lol
>
> >>
>
> >> A*
>
> >
>
> > Golly Acey I haven't lived in Georgia since 2005. *LOL*
>
> >
>
> > Please keep up like a good demon-troll should.
>
>
>
> Regardless of whether GA is in GA or in CA or FL or The Isle Of Wight,
>
> it's dying.
>
>
>
> The so-called inexpensive LSA new is typically over $100,000 with
>
> extensive maintenance, fuel and other associated costs. Then with your
>
> crappy Sport Pilot license, you can fly in circles, daylight and good
>
> weather only and enjoy $300 hamburgers.

Sports cheerleaders also need the eyeballs to fly the "imports" from down Mexico and points south to "customers" in El Norte.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
wrote:

> On Tuesday, October 11, 2011 10:36:49 AM UTC-5, Tom wrote:
> > On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:16:41 -0400, MU wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 21:28:29 -0700 (PDT), Aceâ™* wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > >> On Oct 10, 10:51Â*am, Tom > wrote:
> >
> > >>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:39:34 -0400, Quaalude wrote:
> >
> > >>>> "I look with sadness on the Cessna with bees nests in its air vents,
> > >>>> or
> >
> > >>>> the Mooney sitting on its rims with critters running in and out of it,
> >
> > >>>> and the Cessna 150, faded and gutted like a fish. I ask myself, how
> > >>>> did
> >
> > >>>> it get to this? How could someone let their plane die this way?"
> >
> > >>>
> >
> > >>>> <http://seebarryfly.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/is-the-death-of-general-a.
> > >>>> ..>
> >
> > >>>
> >
> > >>> GA on the decline? Absolutely. GA making adjustments to thwart that
> >
> > >>> decline. Hardly. The best/worst example is the Sport Pilot debacle and
> >
> > >>> the supposed emergence of "inexpensive" LSA. The LSA has gained some
> >
> > >>> ground with geezers who have flunked their medicals but driven a
> >
> > >>> resurgence of GA? Give me a break.
> >
> > >>>
> >
> > >>> GA dead? NO. Dying? Like an octogenarian, it's only a matter of time.
> >
> > >>
> >
> > >> Golly, Tom, do you live in GA the same as MU? lol
> >
> > >>
> >
> > >> A*
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Golly Acey I haven't lived in Georgia since 2005. *LOL*
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Please keep up like a good demon-troll should.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regardless of whether GA is in GA or in CA or FL or The Isle Of Wight,
> >
> > it's dying.
> >
> >
> >
> > The so-called inexpensive LSA new is typically over $100,000 with
> >
> > extensive maintenance, fuel and other associated costs. Then with your
> >
> > crappy Sport Pilot license, you can fly in circles, daylight and good
> >
> > weather only and enjoy $300 hamburgers.
>
> Sports cheerleaders also need the eyeballs to fly the "imports" from down
> Mexico and points south to "customers" in El Norte.


Then "jgrove" ought to be a big supporter of GA.

[[email protected]]

On Monday, October 28, 2013 7:38:55 PM UTC-5, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> In article >,
>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Tuesday, October 11, 2011 10:36:49 AM UTC-5, Tom wrote:
>
> > > On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:16:41 -0400, MU wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 21:28:29 -0700 (PDT), Aceâ™* wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > >> On Oct 10, 10:51Â*am, Tom > wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > >>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:39:34 -0400, Quaalude wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > >>>> "I look with sadness on the Cessna with bees nests in its air vents,
>
> > > >>>> or
>
> > >
>
> > > >>>> the Mooney sitting on its rims with critters running in and out of it,
>
> > >
>
> > > >>>> and the Cessna 150, faded and gutted like a fish. I ask myself, how
>
> > > >>>> did
>
> > >
>
> > > >>>> it get to this? How could someone let their plane die this way?"
>
> > >
>
> > > >>>
>
> > >
>
> > > >>>> <http://seebarryfly.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/is-the-death-of-general-a.
>
> > > >>>> ..>
>
> > >
>
> > > >>>
>
> > >
>
> > > >>> GA on the decline? Absolutely. GA making adjustments to thwart that
>
> > >
>
> > > >>> decline. Hardly. The best/worst example is the Sport Pilot debacle and
>
> > >
>
> > > >>> the supposed emergence of "inexpensive" LSA. The LSA has gained some
>
> > >
>
> > > >>> ground with geezers who have flunked their medicals but driven a
>
> > >
>
> > > >>> resurgence of GA? Give me a break.
>
> > >
>
> > > >>>
>
> > >
>
> > > >>> GA dead? NO. Dying? Like an octogenarian, it's only a matter of time.
>
> > >
>
> > > >>
>
> > >
>
> > > >> Golly, Tom, do you live in GA the same as MU? lol
>
> > >
>
> > > >>
>
> > >
>
> > > >> A*
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > Golly Acey I haven't lived in Georgia since 2005. *LOL*
>
> > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> > > > Please keep up like a good demon-troll should.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Regardless of whether GA is in GA or in CA or FL or The Isle Of Wight,
>
> > >
>
> > > it's dying.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > The so-called inexpensive LSA new is typically over $100,000 with
>
> > >
>
> > > extensive maintenance, fuel and other associated costs. Then with your
>
> > >
>
> > > crappy Sport Pilot license, you can fly in circles, daylight and good
>
> > >
>
> > > weather only and enjoy $300 hamburgers.
>
> >
>
> > Sports cheerleaders also need the eyeballs to fly the "imports" from down
>
> > Mexico and points south to "customers" in El Norte.
>
>
>
>
>
> Then "jgrove" ought to be a big supporter of GA.

I prefer the kosher wines with dinner. Burning and ihhaling any kinds of leaves is just asking for the big "C".

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
wrote:

> On Monday, October 28, 2013 7:38:55 PM UTC-5, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> > In article >,
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Tuesday, October 11, 2011 10:36:49 AM UTC-5, Tom wrote:
> >
> > > > On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 10:16:41 -0400, MU wrote:
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > > On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 21:28:29 -0700 (PDT), Aceâ™* wrote:
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >> On Oct 10, 10:51Â*am, Tom > wrote:
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >>> On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:39:34 -0400, Quaalude wrote:
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >>>> "I look with sadness on the Cessna with bees nests in its air
> > > > >>>> vents,
> >
> > > > >>>> or
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >>>> the Mooney sitting on its rims with critters running in and out of
> > > > >>>> it,
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >>>> and the Cessna 150, faded and gutted like a fish. I ask myself,
> > > > >>>> how
> >
> > > > >>>> did
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >>>> it get to this? How could someone let their plane die this way?"
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >>>
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >>>> <http://seebarryfly.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/is-the-death-of-genera
> > > > >>>> l-a.
> >
> > > > >>>> ..>
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >>>
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >>> GA on the decline? Absolutely. GA making adjustments to thwart that
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >>> decline. Hardly. The best/worst example is the Sport Pilot debacle
> > > > >>> and
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >>> the supposed emergence of "inexpensive" LSA. The LSA has gained
> > > > >>> some
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >>> ground with geezers who have flunked their medicals but driven a
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >>> resurgence of GA? Give me a break.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >>>
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >>> GA dead? NO. Dying? Like an octogenarian, it's only a matter of
> > > > >>> time.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >> Golly, Tom, do you live in GA the same as MU? lol
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >>
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >> A*
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > > Golly Acey I haven't lived in Georgia since 2005. *LOL*
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > > Please keep up like a good demon-troll should.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Regardless of whether GA is in GA or in CA or FL or The Isle Of Wight,
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > it's dying.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > The so-called inexpensive LSA new is typically over $100,000 with
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > extensive maintenance, fuel and other associated costs. Then with your
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > crappy Sport Pilot license, you can fly in circles, daylight and good
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > weather only and enjoy $300 hamburgers.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Sports cheerleaders also need the eyeballs to fly the "imports" from down
> >
> > > Mexico and points south to "customers" in El Norte.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Then "jgrove" ought to be a big supporter of GA.
>
> I prefer the kosher wines with dinner. Burning and ihhaling any kinds of
> leaves is just asking for the big "C".

Your brain is already rotted -- being a complete jerk by trying to close
airports. What happened to you?

Fail a checkride?
Were you so incompetent that you couldn't fly a plane safely?

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:50:17 PM UTC-5, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > > Sports cheerleaders also need the eyeballs to fly the "imports" from down
>
> > >
>
> > > > Mexico and points south to "customers" in El Norte.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Then "jgrove" ought to be a big supporter of GA.
>
> >
>
> > I prefer the kosher wines with dinner. Burning and ihhaling any kinds of
>
> > leaves is just asking for the big "C".
>
>
>
> Your brain is already rotted -- being a complete jerk by trying to close
>
> airports. What happened to you?

The city of Santa Monica must have the same condition as me, they filed a Lawsuit to force the FAA to allow local control of SMO, for a park or anything more useful than a private club for 200 flyboys.


>
> Were you so incompetent that you couldn't fly a plane safely?

I prefer the pilots of AA chaueffering me around the country, thanks.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
wrote:

> On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:50:17 PM UTC-5, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > > Sports cheerleaders also need the eyeballs to fly the "imports" from
> > > > > down
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > > Mexico and points south to "customers" in El Norte.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Then "jgrove" ought to be a big supporter of GA.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I prefer the kosher wines with dinner. Burning and ihhaling any kinds of
> >
> > > leaves is just asking for the big "C".
> >
> >
> >
> > Your brain is already rotted -- being a complete jerk by trying to close
> >
> > airports. What happened to you?
>
> The city of Santa Monica must have the same condition as me, they filed a
> Lawsuit to force the FAA to allow local control of SMO, for a park or
> anything more useful than a private club for 200 flyboys.

Slight problem there -- it seems that at least part of the airport was
granted "in perpetuity" -- what part of that clause don't you understand?

SMO is a center for transportation for many of the prouducers in the
area, rather than for the looters, moochers and drones who wish to close
it.

> > Were you so incompetent that you couldn't fly a plane safely?

I take the answer is "yes."

> I prefer the pilots of AA chaueffering me around the country, thanks.

The only problem with that is that AA doesn't necessarily take you where
you want to go; SMO can, and does so. You can go to anywhere in the
world from SMO or any other GA airport -- and -- you don't have to
depend on somebody else's schedule or routes.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article
>,
Orval Fairbairn > wrote:

> In article >,
> wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, October 29, 2013 8:50:17 PM UTC-5, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > Sports cheerleaders also need the eyeballs to fly the "imports"
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > down
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > Mexico and points south to "customers" in El Norte.
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > > Then "jgrove" ought to be a big supporter of GA.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I prefer the kosher wines with dinner. Burning and ihhaling any kinds
> > > > of
> > >
> > > > leaves is just asking for the big "C".
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your brain is already rotted -- being a complete jerk by trying to close
> > >
> > > airports. What happened to you?
> >
> > The city of Santa Monica must have the same condition as me, they filed a
> > Lawsuit to force the FAA to allow local control of SMO, for a park or
> > anything more useful than a private club for 200 flyboys.
>
> Slight problem there -- it seems that at least part of the airport was
> granted "in perpetuity" -- what part of that clause don't you understand?
>
> SMO is a center for transportation for many of the prouducers in the
> area, rather than for the looters, moochers and drones who wish to close
> it.
>
> > > Were you so incompetent that you couldn't fly a plane safely?
>
> I take the answer is "yes."
>
> > I prefer the pilots of AA chaueffering me around the country, thanks.
>
> The only problem with that is that AA doesn't necessarily take you where
> you want to go; SMO can, and does so. You can go to anywhere in the
> world from SMO or any other GA airport -- and -- you don't have to
> depend on somebody else's schedule or routes.

For more information, see;
http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2013/October/31/aopa-calls-la
wsuit-to-close-santa-monica-airport-meritless.aspx?WT.mc_sect=tts&WT.mc_i
d=131101epilot

[george152]

On 02/11/13 07:41, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
> http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2013/October/31/aopa-calls-la
> wsuit-to-close-santa-monica-airport-meritless.aspx?WT.mc_sect=tts&WT.mc_i
> d=131101epilot
Only got a 404.
But the graphics are great

[sambodidley[_3_]]

"george152" > wrote :


<http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2013/October/31/aopa-calls-lawsuit-to-close-santa-monica-airport-meritless.aspx?WT.mc_sect=tts&WT.mc_id=131101epilot>

> Only got a 404.
> But the graphics are great

Here you go. Fixed it! Link works now. You're welcome. <g>

[george152]

On 02/11/13 10:12, sambodidley wrote:
> "george152" > wrote :
>
>
> <http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2013/October/31/aopa-calls-lawsuit-to-close-santa-monica-airport-meritless.aspx?WT.mc_sect=tts&WT.mc_id=131101epilot>
>
>> Only got a 404.
>> But the graphics are great
>
> Here you go. Fixed it! Link works now. You're welcome. <g>
>
>
>
Thankee sir

[[email protected]]

On Friday, November 1, 2013 4:12:21 PM UTC-5, sambodidley wrote:

>
> Here you go. Fixed it! Link works now. You're welcome. <g>

My favorite commenter:

"Everyone here is going to hate me, but.....I think redeveloping SM airport into a modern mixed use neighborhood would be amazing. It would certainly benefit a lot more people than the airport does. You want to talk about jobs? How about the construction that will take place. Then the highly paid knowledge workers will come in and make the area even better. These people won't commute. They'll live in the mixed use housing. The taxes from property and sales in the area will be huge. Its a no brainer.

Yes it sucks that we lose an airport, but the reality is the piston aircraft hobby is a dying one. As far as the 1%ers and their jets/turboprops, I couldn't care less if they have to sit in the back of a limo from Van Nuys to Brentwood.

As a Bonanza pilot in Los Angeles, I'd use the redeveloped airport more than I use the airport right now."..........

Many posters discount noise complainants as living outside of Santa Monica, of course they live in the adjoining city of Los Angeles, which gets all the inbound noise. Face it, the lease expires in 2015 and a Leisure World complex works for me!

In closing, you still have LAX 6 miles away, with plenty of acreage for hangers along the perimeter, and LAX is buying up more land to the NE of the field.

[[email protected]]

On Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:54:11 PM UTC-5, Orval Fairbairn wrote:

>
> SMO is a center for transportation for many of the prouducers in the
>
> area, rather than for the looters, moochers and drones who wish to close
>
> it.

Producers of what, dorky movies and TV ?? These VIP can trek the extra long SIX miles to LAX.

> > > Were you so incompetent that you couldn't fly a plane safely?
>
>
>
> I take the answer is "yes."
>
>
>
> > I prefer the pilots of AA chaueffering me around the country, thanks.
>

I live in the Chicago area and on average fly twice per year, its not economical or conservative for me to take flying lessons. My taxes paid for the flight training for many AA pilots in the USAF, so that works for me. AA has bathrooms and had kitchens, which I like. All the interesting destinations are served by AA, many with nonstop service from ORD. AA has upgraded me to First Class twice and has never stranded me overnight. These days I fly even less because I find Chicago more useful as a vacationing spot. More people come here every year from all over the world.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
wrote:

> On Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:54:11 PM UTC-5, Orval Fairbairn wrote:
>
> >
> > SMO is a center for transportation for many of the prouducers in the
> >
> > area, rather than for the looters, moochers and drones who wish to close
> >
> > it.
>
> Producers of what, dorky movies and TV ?? These VIP can trek the extra long
> SIX miles to LAX.
>
> > > > Were you so incompetent that you couldn't fly a plane safely?
> >
> >
> >
> > I take the answer is "yes."
> >
> >
> >
> > > I prefer the pilots of AA chaueffering me around the country, thanks.
> >
>
> I live in the Chicago area and on average fly twice per year, its not
> economical or conservative for me to take flying lessons. My taxes paid for
> the flight training for many AA pilots in the USAF, so that works for me. AA
> has bathrooms and had kitchens, which I like. All the interesting
> destinations are served by AA, many with nonstop service from ORD. AA has
> upgraded me to First Class twice and has never stranded me overnight. These
> days I fly even less because I find Chicago more useful as a vacationing
> spot. More people come here every year from all over the world.

If al, the interesting (to you) places are served by AA, then I suggest
that you have a very limited mind and a low threshold of interest.

If you live in Chicago (well-known for its corruption), what in hell are
you doing advocating what you think (I use the term loosely) is good for
Santa Monica?

Why do you hate pilots and airplanes?

[Bug Dout]

Good arguments. But I always use this:

The highest economic use of a piece of land is not always the most
desirable use.

Consider city parks. They produce no tax revenue, on the contrary, they
require upkeep so consume taxes. What?? Then let's remove them! Replace
them with condos, homes, businesses, and maybe a gasoline station or
two.

The problem is few would want to live in a city like that. Likewise, it
might be that a local GA airport is not the highest economic use of the
land...so what?

BD

Orval Fairbairn > writes:

> Slight problem there -- it seems that at least part of the airport was
> granted "in perpetuity" -- what part of that clause don't you understand?

> SMO is a center for transportation for many of the prouducers in the
> area, rather than for the looters, moochers and drones who wish to close
> it.

> The only problem with that is that AA doesn't necessarily take you where
> you want to go; SMO can, and does so. You can go to anywhere in the
> world from SMO or any other GA airport -- and -- you don't have to
> depend on somebody else's schedule or routes.

--
Weak eyes are fondest of glittering objects.
--Thomas Carlyle

[[email protected]]

On Monday, November 4, 2013 4:59:49 PM UTC-6, Bug Dout wrote:
> Good arguments. But I always use this:
>
>
>
> The highest economic use of a piece of land is not always the most
>
> desirable use.
>
>
>
> Consider city parks. They produce no tax revenue, on the contrary, they
>
> require upkeep so consume taxes. What?? Then let's remove them! Replace
>
> them with condos, homes, businesses, and maybe a gasoline station or
>
> two.

Park trees produce OXYGEN, why does Orval hate oxygen atoms ?

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
wrote:

> On Monday, November 4, 2013 4:59:49 PM UTC-6, Bug Dout wrote:
> > Good arguments. But I always use this:
> >
> >
> >
> > The highest economic use of a piece of land is not always the most
> >
> > desirable use.
> >
> >
> >
> > Consider city parks. They produce no tax revenue, on the contrary, they
> >
> > require upkeep so consume taxes. What?? Then let's remove them! Replace
> >
> > them with condos, homes, businesses, and maybe a gasoline station or
> >
> > two.
>
> Park trees produce OXYGEN, why does Orval hate oxygen atoms ?

No -- I just hate idiots!