spins, c of a, & regs

[crashdummy]

just a curiosity question: is anything wrong, illegal, or dangerous in
entering a c150 into a spin at 9,000' and holding full elevator to
maintain it down to 2000 before recovering since spins are often
prohibited at lower altitudes?

[vaughn[_3_]]

"crashdummy" > wrote in message
...
>
> just a curiosity question: is anything wrong, illegal, or dangerous in
> entering a c150 into a spin at 9,000' and holding full elevator to maintain it
> down to 2000 before recovering since spins are often prohibited at lower
> altitudes?

First of all, is your Cessna 150 legal for spins? (It depends on how the rudder
AD was complied with on your plane)

Vaughn

[crashdummy]

On 11/20/2011 02:26 PM, vaughn wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> just a curiosity question: is anything wrong, illegal, or dangerous in
>> entering a c150 into a spin at 9,000' and holding full elevator to maintain it
>> down to 2000 before recovering since spins are often prohibited at lower
>> altitudes?
>
> First of all, is your Cessna 150 legal for spins? (It depends on how the rudder
> AD was complied with on your plane)
>
> Vaughn


I guess it was, it was a school plane in the early 60's.

[Jim Logajan]

crashdummy > wrote:
> On 11/20/2011 02:26 PM, vaughn wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> just a curiosity question: is anything wrong, illegal, or dangerous
>>> in entering a c150 into a spin at 9,000' and holding full elevator
>>> to maintain it down to 2000 before recovering since spins are often
>>> prohibited at lower altitudes?
>>
>> First of all, is your Cessna 150 legal for spins? (It depends on how
>> the rudder AD was complied with on your plane)
>>
>> Vaughn
>
>
> I guess it was, it was a school plane in the early 60's.

Unfortunately that rudder AD only came out a few years ago and affected
swept-tail C-150s and 152s even if they had previously been successfully
spun for years. Here is a news article on it:

http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-05-14_ad.asp

They had to fixed or placarded against spins. So if plane isn't placarded
against spins you can probably do it.

Here's a video of a C-152 being put into a 15 turn spin from 6000 to 3000:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv7so42W-n0

Don't try spins without instruction on recovery.

[Dave Doe]

In article >,
, crashdummy says...
>
> just a curiosity question: is anything wrong, illegal, or dangerous in
> entering a c150 into a spin at 9,000' and holding full elevator to
> maintain it down to 2000 before recovering since spins are often
> prohibited at lower altitudes?

Gee that sounds like fun! :) My spin instructors never liked spinning
*that* much. That said, only had two instructors that were into
teachign me spin recovery. It was not *manditory* when I did my PPL in
NZ - and don't believe it is still. However I think it's near essential
to learn - as well as a chitload of fun. I asked to do spin recovery
under the hood - which was a heap of fun too. And it was great to be
able to suceed in doing it.

Others have answered your questions about the plane - is it approved for
spinning etc. Only other comment is that it may not be that wise to
recover by 2,000'??? - I was always taught to recover by 3,000' AGL. I
guess that's really an instructor/club thing - and therefore where you
should direct your question.

You'll be spining with an instructor anyway right? (dual?). In NZ you'd
need to be approved for aerobatics (and that particular manoeuvre) to
spin solo.

--
Duncan.

[birdog[_2_]]

"Dave Doe" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> , crashdummy says...
>>
>> just a curiosity question: is anything wrong, illegal, or dangerous in
>> entering a c150 into a spin at 9,000' and holding full elevator to
>> maintain it down to 2000 before recovering since spins are often
>> prohibited at lower altitudes?
>
> Gee that sounds like fun! :) My spin instructors never liked spinning
> *that* much. That said, only had two instructors that were into
> teachign me spin recovery. It was not *manditory* when I did my PPL in
> NZ - and don't believe it is still. However I think it's near essential
> to learn - as well as a chitload of fun. I asked to do spin recovery
> under the hood - which was a heap of fun too. And it was great to be
> able to suceed in doing it.
>
> Others have answered your questions about the plane - is it approved for
> spinning etc. Only other comment is that it may not be that wise to
> recover by 2,000'??? - I was always taught to recover by 3,000' AGL. I
> guess that's really an instructor/club thing - and therefore where you
> should direct your question.
>
> You'll be spining with an instructor anyway right? (dual?). In NZ you'd
> need to be approved for aerobatics (and that particular manoeuvre) to
> spin solo.
>
> --
> Duncan.

Gee, how times have changed! In my formative days(late !940's) you didn't
solo until you were able to recover from spins in both directions. Before
the ppl, we did recovery from unusual attitudes, needle, ball and airspeed
navigation, all under the hood. And it was all fun!

[crashdummy]

On 11/21/2011 10:02 AM, birdog wrote:
> "Dave > wrote in message
> ...
>> In >,
>> , crashdummy says...
>>>
>>> just a curiosity question: is anything wrong, illegal, or dangerous in
>>> entering a c150 into a spin at 9,000' and holding full elevator to
>>> maintain it down to 2000 before recovering since spins are often
>>> prohibited at lower altitudes?
>>
>> Gee that sounds like fun! :) My spin instructors never liked spinning
>> *that* much. That said, only had two instructors that were into
>> teachign me spin recovery. It was not *manditory* when I did my PPL in
>> NZ - and don't believe it is still. However I think it's near essential
>> to learn - as well as a chitload of fun. I asked to do spin recovery
>> under the hood - which was a heap of fun too. And it was great to be
>> able to suceed in doing it.
>>
>> Others have answered your questions about the plane - is it approved for
>> spinning etc. Only other comment is that it may not be that wise to
>> recover by 2,000'??? - I was always taught to recover by 3,000' AGL. I
>> guess that's really an instructor/club thing - and therefore where you
>> should direct your question.
>>
>> You'll be spining with an instructor anyway right? (dual?). In NZ you'd
>> need to be approved for aerobatics (and that particular manoeuvre) to
>> spin solo.
>>
>> --
>> Duncan.
>
> Gee, how times have changed! In my formative days(late !940's) you didn't
> solo until you were able to recover from spins in both directions. Before
> the ppl, we did recovery from unusual attitudes, needle, ball and airspeed
> navigation, all under the hood. And it was all fun!
>
>

And it was all useful! Mind you in all this time I never once entered a
single unintentional spin. The others were fun though, sorta breaking
the monotony :-)

The reason I asked the original Q was from watching an rv8 or Team-F1
spin recovery clip on utube and I noticed that recovery was always
withing a turn or two. That's very good of course, half a turn is even
better, but I just wondered if there might not be some seldom advertised
taboo about extended spins.

[crashdummy]

On 11/21/2011 01:58 AM, Jim Logajan wrote:
> > wrote:
>> On 11/20/2011 02:26 PM, vaughn wrote:
>>> > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> just a curiosity question: is anything wrong, illegal, or dangerous
>>>> in entering a c150 into a spin at 9,000' and holding full elevator
>>>> to maintain it down to 2000 before recovering since spins are often
>>>> prohibited at lower altitudes?
>>>
>>> First of all, is your Cessna 150 legal for spins? (It depends on how
>>> the rudder AD was complied with on your plane)
>>>
>>> Vaughn
>>
>>
>> I guess it was, it was a school plane in the early 60's.
>
> Unfortunately that rudder AD only came out a few years ago and affected
> swept-tail C-150s and 152s even if they had previously been successfully
> spun for years. Here is a news article on it:
>
> http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-05-14_ad.asp

Interesting article, I haven't read anything about 150's for decades!

I'll side with Cessna on the issue though because an agressively sought
prespin stall begins near 90 degrees nose up and CAN lead to a short
tailslide which could bend a rudder. Just a hunch..

> They had to fixed or placarded against spins. So if plane isn't placarded
> against spins you can probably do it.
>
> Here's a video of a C-152 being put into a 15 turn spin from 6000 to 3000:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv7so42W-n0

I'll just presume that the back seat is full of other 'students' :-)

[crashdummy]

On 11/21/2011 08:02 AM, Dave Doe wrote:
> In >,
> , crashdummy says...
>>
>> just a curiosity question: is anything wrong, illegal, or dangerous in
>> entering a c150 into a spin at 9,000' and holding full elevator to
>> maintain it down to 2000 before recovering since spins are often
>> prohibited at lower altitudes?
>
> Gee that sounds like fun! :) My spin instructors never liked spinning
> *that* much. That said, only had two instructors that were into
> teachign me spin recovery. It was not *manditory* when I did my PPL in
> NZ - and don't believe it is still. However I think it's near essential
> to learn - as well as a chitload of fun. I asked to do spin recovery
> under the hood - which was a heap of fun too. And it was great to be
> able to suceed in doing it.

Instructors are weird breed. I asked mine while doing my LAST hour of
dual way back when "how do you loop a 150"?

So he went on ranting about the regs not permitting loops, the school
not permitting loops, cessna not permitting loops and then

"but I damm well know you're gonna try anyway so I might as well show you"

So needless to say I did tons of long spins and (slow) loops for what
seemed like years.

> Others have answered your questions about the plane - is it approved for
> spinning etc. Only other comment is that it may not be that wise to
> recover by 2,000'??? - I was always taught to recover by 3,000' AGL. I
> guess that's really an instructor/club thing - and therefore where you
> should direct your question.
>
> You'll be spining with an instructor anyway right? (dual?).

Not likely, haven't flown anything except a mig29 sim for 10 years now
:-))))

If I were filthy rich I'd probably move some real sky around in a su-26
or ea-300L though ..only on Sundays. Couldn't handle a real mig or such,
my kidneys would fall off the hinges.

> In NZ you'd
> need to be approved for aerobatics (and that particular manoeuvre) to
> spin solo.
>

[george152]

Dave Doe wrote:
> In article >,
> , crashdummy says...
>> just a curiosity question: is anything wrong, illegal, or dangerous in
>> entering a c150 into a spin at 9,000' and holding full elevator to
>> maintain it down to 2000 before recovering since spins are often
>> prohibited at lower altitudes?
>
> Gee that sounds like fun! :) My spin instructors never liked spinning
> *that* much. That said, only had two instructors that were into
> teachign me spin recovery. It was not *manditory* when I did my PPL in
> NZ - and don't believe it is still. However I think it's near essential
> to learn - as well as a chitload of fun. I asked to do spin recovery
> under the hood - which was a heap of fun too. And it was great to be
> able to suceed in doing it.
>
> Others have answered your questions about the plane - is it approved for
> spinning etc. Only other comment is that it may not be that wise to
> recover by 2,000'??? - I was always taught to recover by 3,000' AGL. I
> guess that's really an instructor/club thing - and therefore where you
> should direct your question.
>
> You'll be spining with an instructor anyway right? (dual?). In NZ you'd
> need to be approved for aerobatics (and that particular manoeuvre) to
> spin solo.
>

That's pretty much how I learnt to recover from spins - by doing them.
Look up ZK-BCZ :)
And we also had recovery altitude at 3000...
Nowadays fully developed stalls recovery with minimum height loss appear
to be the norm

[Dave Doe]

In article >, , birdog
says...
>
> "Dave Doe" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > , crashdummy says...
> >>
> >> just a curiosity question: is anything wrong, illegal, or dangerous in
> >> entering a c150 into a spin at 9,000' and holding full elevator to
> >> maintain it down to 2000 before recovering since spins are often
> >> prohibited at lower altitudes?
> >
> > Gee that sounds like fun! :) My spin instructors never liked spinning
> > *that* much. That said, only had two instructors that were into
> > teachign me spin recovery. It was not *manditory* when I did my PPL in
> > NZ - and don't believe it is still. However I think it's near essential
> > to learn - as well as a chitload of fun. I asked to do spin recovery
> > under the hood - which was a heap of fun too. And it was great to be
> > able to suceed in doing it.
> >
> > Others have answered your questions about the plane - is it approved for
> > spinning etc. Only other comment is that it may not be that wise to
> > recover by 2,000'??? - I was always taught to recover by 3,000' AGL. I
> > guess that's really an instructor/club thing - and therefore where you
> > should direct your question.
> >
> > You'll be spining with an instructor anyway right? (dual?). In NZ you'd
> > need to be approved for aerobatics (and that particular manoeuvre) to
> > spin solo.
> >
> > --
> > Duncan.
>
> Gee, how times have changed! In my formative days(late !940's) you didn't
> solo until you were able to recover from spins in both directions. Before
> the ppl, we did recovery from unusual attitudes, needle, ball and airspeed
> navigation, all under the hood. And it was all fun!

What were you flying? - the Tigermoth? or Stearman?


--
Duncan.

[george152]

Dave Doe wrote:

> What were you flying? - the Tigermoth? or Stearman?
>

DH82

[Dave Doe]

In article >,
, george152 says...
>
> Dave Doe wrote:
>
> > What were you flying? - the Tigermoth? or Stearman?
> >
>
> DH82

My late Dad did his training in one, on the West Coast. It was very
cheap due to being heavily subsidised as part of the war training effort
back in the early 40's.

--
Duncan.

[george152]

Dave Doe wrote:
> In article >,
> , george152 says...
>> Dave Doe wrote:
>>
>>> What were you flying? - the Tigermoth? or Stearman?
>>>
>> DH82
>
> My late Dad did his training in one, on the West Coast. It was very
> cheap due to being heavily subsidised as part of the war training effort
> back in the early 40's.
>

Yes.
Sadly I didn't get in on that scheme as it was on offer until the mid 50s.

[birdog[_2_]]

"Dave Doe" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, , birdog
> says...
>>
>> "Dave Doe" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > , crashdummy says...
>> >>
>> >> just a curiosity question: is anything wrong, illegal, or dangerous in
>> >> entering a c150 into a spin at 9,000' and holding full elevator to
>> >> maintain it down to 2000 before recovering since spins are often
>> >> prohibited at lower altitudes?
>> >
>> > Gee that sounds like fun! :) My spin instructors never liked spinning
>> > *that* much. That said, only had two instructors that were into
>> > teachign me spin recovery. It was not *manditory* when I did my PPL in
>> > NZ - and don't believe it is still. However I think it's near
>> > essential
>> > to learn - as well as a chitload of fun. I asked to do spin recovery
>> > under the hood - which was a heap of fun too. And it was great to be
>> > able to suceed in doing it.
>> >
>> > Others have answered your questions about the plane - is it approved
>> > for
>> > spinning etc. Only other comment is that it may not be that wise to
>> > recover by 2,000'??? - I was always taught to recover by 3,000' AGL. I
>> > guess that's really an instructor/club thing - and therefore where you
>> > should direct your question.
>> >
>> > You'll be spining with an instructor anyway right? (dual?). In NZ
>> > you'd
>> > need to be approved for aerobatics (and that particular manoeuvre) to
>> > spin solo.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Duncan.
>>
>> Gee, how times have changed! In my formative days(late !940's) you didn't
>> solo until you were able to recover from spins in both directions. Before
>> the ppl, we did recovery from unusual attitudes, needle, ball and
>> airspeed
>> navigation, all under the hood. And it was all fun!
>
> What were you flying? - the Tigermoth? or Stearman?
>
>
> --
> Duncan.
>
Started with J3's and civilian instructors in Gulfport, Miss. while waiting
to get into cadets. Due to normal gov't. screwups I never got there. Got the
ppl after discharge in 1946.

[birdog[_2_]]

"birdog" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dave Doe" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >, , birdog
>> says...
>>>
>>> "Dave Doe" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> > In article >,
>>> > , crashdummy says...
>>> >>
>>> >> just a curiosity question: is anything wrong, illegal, or dangerous
>>> >> in
>>> >> entering a c150 into a spin at 9,000' and holding full elevator to
>>> >> maintain it down to 2000 before recovering since spins are often
>>> >> prohibited at lower altitudes?
>>> >
>>> > Gee that sounds like fun! :) My spin instructors never liked spinning
>>> > *that* much. That said, only had two instructors that were into
>>> > teachign me spin recovery. It was not *manditory* when I did my PPL
>>> > in
>>> > NZ - and don't believe it is still. However I think it's near
>>> > essential
>>> > to learn - as well as a chitload of fun. I asked to do spin recovery
>>> > under the hood - which was a heap of fun too. And it was great to be
>>> > able to suceed in doing it.
>>> >
>>> > Others have answered your questions about the plane - is it approved
>>> > for
>>> > spinning etc. Only other comment is that it may not be that wise to
>>> > recover by 2,000'??? - I was always taught to recover by 3,000' AGL.
>>> > I
>>> > guess that's really an instructor/club thing - and therefore where you
>>> > should direct your question.
>>> >
>>> > You'll be spining with an instructor anyway right? (dual?). In NZ
>>> > you'd
>>> > need to be approved for aerobatics (and that particular manoeuvre) to
>>> > spin solo.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Duncan.
>>>
>>> Gee, how times have changed! In my formative days(late !940's) you
>>> didn't
>>> solo until you were able to recover from spins in both directions.
>>> Before
>>> the ppl, we did recovery from unusual attitudes, needle, ball and
>>> airspeed
>>> navigation, all under the hood. And it was all fun!
>>
>> What were you flying? - the Tigermoth? or Stearman?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Duncan.
>>
> Started with J3's and civilian instructors in Gulfport, Miss. while
> waiting to get into cadets. Due to normal gov't. screwups I never got
> there. Got the ppl after discharge in 1946.

Supplement: As to military trainers, did fly a PT-19 and an AT-6 in after
the war. A Stearman was on my wish list, but never realized.