Ballpark budget to buy and own an airplane

[TTA Cherokee Driver]

Just taking a swag at what it might cost to buy and own a $40,000 plane
in the Cherokee class, here is what I came up with. Feedback from those
who are wiser appreciated:

Assumption: $40,000 plane bought with a 15-year 7.5% loan with 20% down.

Startup costs:

Down payment: $8,000
Loan fees: $250 (guessed from googling on aircraft financing)
pre-buy activities: $2,000 (inspections, travel to view planes, etc)
reserve for first annual/squawks: $5,000 (not really an expense but need
to have available in case)

Monthly fixed costs (some are annual costs divided by 12):

Tiedown: $35 (verified with local FBO)
Loan payments: $300 (used online loan calculator)
Insurance: $90 (online quote from AOPA insurance agency, $1M/$100K, 160
hr VFR pilot)
Annual: $75 (assume $900 annuals)

Hourly costs:

Gas: $24 (8gph @$3 per)
Engine reserve: $15 (assume engine has 1000 hours left and an overhaul
will be $15K)
Other reserves: $10

[kontiki]

I think you are being a bit optimistic on the annual costs... add $500
to be safe. I would also allocate $25/month just as a reserve for normal
repair and/or replacement items.

TTA Cherokee Driver wrote:
> Just taking a swag at what it might cost to buy and own a $40,000 plane
> in the Cherokee class, here is what I came up with. Feedback from those
> who are wiser appreciated:
>
> Assumption: $40,000 plane bought with a 15-year 7.5% loan with 20% down.
>
> Startup costs:
>
> Down payment: $8,000
> Loan fees: $250 (guessed from googling on aircraft financing)
> pre-buy activities: $2,000 (inspections, travel to view planes, etc)
> reserve for first annual/squawks: $5,000 (not really an expense but need
> to have available in case)
>
> Monthly fixed costs (some are annual costs divided by 12):
>
> Tiedown: $35 (verified with local FBO)
> Loan payments: $300 (used online loan calculator)
> Insurance: $90 (online quote from AOPA insurance agency, $1M/$100K, 160
> hr VFR pilot)
> Annual: $75 (assume $900 annuals)
>
> Hourly costs:
>
> Gas: $24 (8gph @$3 per)
> Engine reserve: $15 (assume engine has 1000 hours left and an overhaul
> will be $15K)
> Other reserves: $10
>
>
>

[Dave Butler]

TTA Cherokee Driver wrote:
> Just taking a swag at what it might cost to buy and own a $40,000 plane
> in the Cherokee class, here is what I came up with. Feedback from those
> who are wiser appreciated:
>
> Assumption: $40,000 plane bought with a 15-year 7.5% loan with 20% down.
>
> Startup costs:
>
> Down payment: $8,000
> Loan fees: $250 (guessed from googling on aircraft financing)
> pre-buy activities: $2,000 (inspections, travel to view planes, etc)
> reserve for first annual/squawks: $5,000 (not really an expense but need
> to have available in case)
>
> Monthly fixed costs (some are annual costs divided by 12):
>
> Tiedown: $35 (verified with local FBO)
> Loan payments: $300 (used online loan calculator)
> Insurance: $90 (online quote from AOPA insurance agency, $1M/$100K, 160
> hr VFR pilot)
> Annual: $75 (assume $900 annuals)
>
> Hourly costs:
>
> Gas: $24 (8gph @$3 per)
> Engine reserve: $15 (assume engine has 1000 hours left and an overhaul
> will be $15K)
> Other reserves: $10

I didn't check your numbers, but I think you've covered all the bases, except I
don't see anything for general maintenance, spark plugs, oil changes, the odd
window hinge, PTT switch, stuff that breaks, avionics that wear out or become
obsolete. Maybe that's in the "other reserves". I think I'd plan for $1500 for
the annual, but that's a judgement call. Planning for an expensive first annual
is a good idea. Mostly I think you're in the ball park.

Dave

[zatatime]

On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:16:16 -0400, TTA Cherokee Driver
> wrote:

>Just taking a swag at what it might cost to buy and own a $40,000 plane
>in the Cherokee class, here is what I came up with. Feedback from those
>who are wiser appreciated:
>
>Assumption: $40,000 plane bought with a 15-year 7.5% loan with 20% down.
>
>Startup costs:
>
>Down payment: $8,000
>Loan fees: $250 (guessed from googling on aircraft financing)
>pre-buy activities: $2,000 (inspections, travel to view planes, etc)
>reserve for first annual/squawks: $5,000 (not really an expense but need
>to have available in case)
>
>Monthly fixed costs (some are annual costs divided by 12):
>
>Tiedown: $35 (verified with local FBO)
>Loan payments: $300 (used online loan calculator)
>Insurance: $90 (online quote from AOPA insurance agency, $1M/$100K, 160
>hr VFR pilot)
>Annual: $75 (assume $900 annuals)
>
>Hourly costs:
>
>Gas: $24 (8gph @$3 per)
>Engine reserve: $15 (assume engine has 1000 hours left and an overhaul
>will be $15K)
>Other reserves: $10
>
>


I don't know where you live, but I'd figure on 2500 / yr for the
annual. This will also let you buy "stuff" through the course of the
year should it break, ie, strobe, fuel sender, etc... I do most of my
own maintenance, pay an IA $400, and generally need about 1000+ per
year in parts. I'd also run your gas average at 10 gph assuming a
warrior 12 gph for an Archer. With that figure it'll include oil
consumption and you won't get caught short.

Best advice I can think of is plan as much as you can and after you
buy it don't stress too much when the plan has to change.

I also don't save for an engine, but that's just my philosophy. 1000
hrs @ 100 hrs/yr = 10 years. Avg pilot flies about 50 in his own
craft so you're looking at 20 years to spend that money (if you keep
the plane that long).

HTH.
z

[G.R. Patterson III]

TTA Cherokee Driver wrote:
>
> Monthly fixed costs (some are annual costs divided by 12):

Add about $500 per year for maintenance. In good years, this will be about $150 for
oil changes (assuming you use 15W-50 and do them yourself). The bad years will more
than make up for the good ones.

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

[C Kingsbury]

Looks good to me. The numbers on my partnership 172 are higher but
we're near Boston where the prices for everything are much higher.

$2000/annual would be more conservative. There are just so many
gotchas out there. But the $5000 first annual reserve is very wise.
Between that and $2000 for pre-buys I think you're leaving yourself
good margin for error.

Slightly off-topic, but make sure you're buying the right airplane for
at least a couple of years. 40k should be able to get you a solid VFR
plane. If you go IFR you'll want GPS and an auto-pilot and you
probably won't find PA-28s or 172s with those with low time, no damage
history, etc. You should be able to find basic IFR though. Those items
will add some to the operating costs but the biggest hit will be to
the purchase price, which you're amortizing over 20 years, plus the
fact that it's probably half the cost of putting them in new. AND they
will help you out big-time when you want to sell it, especially a GPS.

-cwk.

TTA Cherokee Driver > wrote in message >...
> Just taking a swag at what it might cost to buy and own a $40,000 plane
> in the Cherokee class, here is what I came up with. Feedback from those
> who are wiser appreciated:
>
> Assumption: $40,000 plane bought with a 15-year 7.5% loan with 20% down.
>
> Startup costs:
>
> Down payment: $8,000
> Loan fees: $250 (guessed from googling on aircraft financing)
> pre-buy activities: $2,000 (inspections, travel to view planes, etc)
> reserve for first annual/squawks: $5,000 (not really an expense but need
> to have available in case)
>
> Monthly fixed costs (some are annual costs divided by 12):
>
> Tiedown: $35 (verified with local FBO)
> Loan payments: $300 (used online loan calculator)
> Insurance: $90 (online quote from AOPA insurance agency, $1M/$100K, 160
> hr VFR pilot)
> Annual: $75 (assume $900 annuals)
>
> Hourly costs:
>
> Gas: $24 (8gph @$3 per)
> Engine reserve: $15 (assume engine has 1000 hours left and an overhaul
> will be $15K)
> Other reserves: $10

[Dico Reyers]

It seems that annuals are very expensive in the US... perhaps we're
lucky here at CYYG... we've got a retired AME with more certications
you can shake a stick at (everything from 150s to DC3s to
Citations)... he's retired and helps out another AMO to keep busy.

Might be worth a flight up here to get your annual done and vacation
at the same time. www.peiplay.com is the local tourism web site.

-dr

[Roger Halstead]

On 15 Aug 2004 16:07:20 -0700, (Dico Reyers)
wrote:

>It seems that annuals are very expensive in the US... perhaps we're
>lucky here at CYYG... we've got a retired AME with more certications
>you can shake a stick at (everything from 150s to DC3s to
>Citations)... he's retired and helps out another AMO to keep busy.
>
>Might be worth a flight up here to get your annual done and vacation
>at the same time. www.peiplay.com is the local tourism web site.

Not until you move it at LEAST 800 to 1000 miles south.
In general mine have averaged about $800 to $1000 USD. for a high
performance, complex, retract.

Actually when I had a Bo specialist doing them they were cheaper.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>-dr

[G.R. Patterson III]

Dico Reyers wrote:
>
> It seems that annuals are very expensive in the US...

Actually, not so much. People usually defer maintenance until annual inspection time,
and this is what runs the cost up. The inspection on my aircraft was less than $500,
but the total bill was over $900. Part of that was some fabric work that's been put
off for several years (Paul, that's the silver patch on the tail you may have
noticed).

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.

[Mark Astley]

Keep in mind that I live on the east coast so my numbers tend to be
higher. For reference, I have a PA28-140 which I paid around $30K
for.

Acquisition cost: your numbers look good here. Someone probably
already told you that this is the "cheap" part. Your first annual
reserve looks fine depending on the squawks. A cylinder job at first
annual (it happens) can run around $1000/cylinder.

Fixed costs: these look good as well except for the annual. My first
annual was in the neighborhood of $3K with a lot of little fixes.

Hourly: Assume about 10gph as others have suggested to be on the safe
side. Call your engine reserve a maintenance reserve as that's more
likely what you'll use it for. As others have said, you're probably
more likely to sell the plane before overhaul. Learn to change your
own oil, if you fly a lot this adds up. Even if you don't fly a lot,
it's an easy job and a good way to get comfortable with maintenance.
At least learn to clean, gap, and rotate your plugs. That's about the
easiest do-it-yourself maintenance there is.

Miscellanious: avionics are an oft-desired and expensive upgrade.
Decide now (and be realistic) if you want to make your bird IFR legal.
I spent almost $10K on mine for an IFR GPS and a few other minor
things. And now the bad news: avionics probably only add $0.30 on the
dollar to overall value. Interior and paint upgrades are closer to
even.

best of luck,
mark

TTA Cherokee Driver > wrote in message >...
> Just taking a swag at what it might cost to buy and own a $40,000 plane
> in the Cherokee class, here is what I came up with. Feedback from those
> who are wiser appreciated:
>
> Assumption: $40,000 plane bought with a 15-year 7.5% loan with 20% down.
>
> Startup costs:
>
> Down payment: $8,000
> Loan fees: $250 (guessed from googling on aircraft financing)
> pre-buy activities: $2,000 (inspections, travel to view planes, etc)
> reserve for first annual/squawks: $5,000 (not really an expense but need
> to have available in case)
>
> Monthly fixed costs (some are annual costs divided by 12):
>
> Tiedown: $35 (verified with local FBO)
> Loan payments: $300 (used online loan calculator)
> Insurance: $90 (online quote from AOPA insurance agency, $1M/$100K, 160
> hr VFR pilot)
> Annual: $75 (assume $900 annuals)
>
> Hourly costs:
>
> Gas: $24 (8gph @$3 per)
> Engine reserve: $15 (assume engine has 1000 hours left and an overhaul
> will be $15K)
> Other reserves: $10