Cambridge 302 USB Port

[Karl Kunz]

I have a few questions regarding the USB port on the later Cambridge 302. The Cambridge manual leaves much to be desired in explaining what it can do.

Is the USB port supposed to supply power to a PDA or other device?

Are you able to transfer files both ways with a PDA or PocketPC (logs and waypoints, etc.) or does the port only work with a laptop?

What is the best way to use both the 303 and a PDA connected to the 302?

[Paul Remde]

Hi Karl,

Good questions. Please see my answers below.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

"Karl Kunz" > wrote in message
news:16601193.26.1323215405491.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pruu5...
>I have a few questions regarding the USB port on the later Cambridge 302.
>The Cambridge manual leaves much to be desired in explaining what it can
>do.
>
> Is the USB port supposed to supply power to a PDA or other device?

- No. The USB port is only for connection to a PC. The PC is the master
and the 302 is the slave. Since PDAs are generally also USB slaves, the 302
can't talk to them through the USB port.

>
> Are you able to transfer files both ways with a PDA or PocketPC (logs and
> waypoints, etc.) or does the port only work with a laptop?

- You can transfer files to and from a 302 using a PDA - but only when the
PDA is connected to the 302's RS-232 port (the one with the 9-pin
connector). The USB port works only with PCs.

>
> What is the best way to use both the 303 and a PDA connected to the 302?

- Connect the PDA to the 9-pin (DB-9) port and connect the 303 to the RJ
(phone jack) port. They can both be used at the same time.

[Karl Kunz]

Thanks Paul. Will the DB-9 port provide power to the PDA?

[GK[_2_]]

Will the DB-9 port provide power to the PDA?

- Yes and no. The power source from C302 is problematic, especially
when the battery on your PDA is charging. I have seen my C302 freezing
and working erratically under those circumstances. It’s better if you
provide the power via the power converter directly from your glider's
battery.
The USB port on the C302 is pretty much useless since you have to
switch communication between serial and the USB with a dip switch
which is located at the back of the C302. In my case its still
requires taking the canopy off to reach the back side of the C302
anytime I like to use the USB port. You can also download flight logs
and declare the task via the PDA serial communication and gliding
software: Winpilot(and a small program you can obtain for free from
Cambridge aero) or the Connect me from seeyou.

GK

[Karl Kunz]

If you use a separate power source as you describe, how do you tie it into the serial cable?

[GK[_2_]]

On Dec 7, 11:49*am, Karl Kunz > wrote:
> If you use a separate power source as you describe, how do you tie it into the serial cable?

Serial communication doesn’t carry power over the same media as the
communications. So Pins: 2 is RX and Pin 3 is TX. Pins 5 and 6 are
5VDC and Ground (if I remember correctly). Tim has the plug diagram on
his web site. You can purchase a premade converter for the PDA, if you
purchase the Oudie it already comes with a premade cable. Or you can
make one yourselves

[JohnDeRosa]

On Dec 7, 10:39*am, GK > wrote:
> Will the DB-9 port provide power to the PDA?
>
> - Yes and no. The power source from C302 is problematic, especially
> when the battery on your PDA is charging. I have seen my C302 freezing
> and working erratically under those circumstances. It’s better if you
> provide the power via the power converter directly from your glider's
> battery.

>
> GK

I have heard this same message on several occasions about the 302 not
being able to supply enough power to a PDA with a low battery and then
causing issues. This is not my experience. I am using a 302 with a
HP2215 that at times has a totally flat battery when I plug it into
the cradle (and the 302's RS-232 connector) at the field. I have
never had an issue. Might this have to do with the vintage of the
302? Mine is about 6 years old without the USB connector.

BTW: I store everything on a CF or SD card in the HP2215 so I don't
keep it plugged in and don't care if the PDA looses its memory
contents or not. Its a better way to go IMHO.

[Andy[_1_]]

On Dec 7, 9:39*am, GK > wrote:
> Will the DB-9 port provide power to the PDA?
>
> - Yes and no. The power source from C302 is problematic,

No problem with mine powering an Aero 1530 for the last 9 or so
years. Of course it doesn't normally need a back light like some
other PDAs. Although I try to have the PDA fully charged before use
in the glider it isn't always.

Andy

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

I'm sorry, but I must respectfully disagree with your comment about the 302
not being able to power a PDA. I have used many different PDAs with a 302
for years with no problems. I think customers have problems when they
connect a PDA with the PDA's battery low. PDAs with low batteries can draw
a LOT of current (over 1 A). The 302 can supply plenty of current for all
PDAs and PNAs I've seen - as long as they are fully or nearly fully charged.

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

"GK" > wrote in message
...
Will the DB-9 port provide power to the PDA?

- Yes and no. The power source from C302 is problematic, especially
when the battery on your PDA is charging. I have seen my C302 freezing
and working erratically under those circumstances. It’s better if you
provide the power via the power converter directly from your glider's
battery.
The USB port on the C302 is pretty much useless since you have to
switch communication between serial and the USB with a dip switch
which is located at the back of the C302. In my case its still
requires taking the canopy off to reach the back side of the C302
anytime I like to use the USB port. You can also download flight logs
and declare the task via the PDA serial communication and gliding
software: Winpilot(and a small program you can obtain for free from
Cambridge aero) or the Connect me from seeyou.

GK

[Karl Kunz]

Thanks all, I believe you have answered all my questions. As pointed out, the USB port is pretty useless unless you are going to lug a laptop out to the glider all the time exchange files and with having to toggle the switch on the back of the 302 it is a real pain in the ass to have to remove the canopy on our ASW20 to get at it. I think our best solution is to use the serial port with a PDA for file transfers.

[Rhubarb[_2_]]

I have also had problems with my 302's 5v power supply.

So I use a separate 12v to 5v converter to power the PDA. Should be
able to deliver atleast 1 amp and maybe 1.5 (when the PDA is empty)

Some PDAs require a bit more then 5v to charge. So get a converter
which can be adjusted to go as high 5.5v

Peter

[Darryl Ramm]

The USB port on the C302 is a hastily implemented hack. Its not at all sufficiently documented, supported or supportable by Cambridge. Its no more than a third party USB to serial adapter board stuck inside the C302. Its not providing "real" USB connectivity, just the USB to serial conversion. You have to deal with drivers for it being properly installed on your computer. Whether this happens via plug and pray on Windows computers or not properly, ... um... well good luck.

If you have a Cambridge 302 and want to connect to it from a laptop use a good quality third party USB to serial adapter from a company that provides good driver updates etc. The Keyspan USA-19HS Hi-Speed USB Serial Adapter being my recommendation. Only $28 on Amazon and is likely to save you significant hassles.

The C302 uses an special Cambridge bus (actually its just an electronics' industry standard I2C "eye squared C" serial bus) for communicating with the C303. The I2C serial bus and the RS-232 communication to the PDA are entirely separate, use different connectors, wire signals and protocols etc. Whether you have a C303 present or not makes no difference to how you connect a PDA/PNA to the C302.

Your PDA/PNA should use a serial port. Forget USB anything unless you have specific need to connect a laptop that does not have a serial port. In that case use the Keyspan adapter I mentioned above.

If you have a PDA/PNA without a any serial port then look at a Bluetooth adapter like the K6-BT. Although a very nice adapter it can have issues with the baud rate switching involved with the C302 IGC file download.

Some PNAs have serial ports that are logic level and need a level shifter to drive at RS-232 signal levels (well most vendors don't strictly bother to get that right but they work).

Some PDA/PDA devices are capable of being USB bus masters. Especially via USB OTG (on-the-go) switching. But that's getting off topic...

Darryl

[T8]

Paul,

Here's the deal: the back of my Ipaq 3950 says 5VDC, 2 amps.

The 302 docs tell us we are limited to 0.9 amp out of the 302.

You, and others, have led us into a marginal solution. I think you
ought to quit doing that :-).

I have about 500 hours of *mostly* trouble free PDA operation off my
302... because I *mostly* remember to have the the PDA at full
charge. I've sometimes forgotten (mostly during a two day drive
somewhere) and then had mysterious problems with the 302 (mostly 1200
miles from home). I finally read the manual (again). It's easy to
miss stuff in the 302 manual because of the way it isn't really
organized.... but here it is (smites brow).

The correct solution for anyone with a PDA is to ensure that the power
supply is up to the task. The 302 isn't by any reasonable engineering
definition.

Here's a $12 start to a proper engineering solution
http://www.murata-ps.com/data/meters/mpm_78sr-2a_a00.pdf

Get 'em at Mouser. Input fuse is a good idea.

-Evan Ludeman / T8


On Dec 7, 5:10*pm, "Paul Remde" > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm sorry, but I must respectfully disagree with your comment about the 302
> not being able to power a PDA. *I have used many different PDAs with a 302
> for years with no problems. *I think customers have problems when they
> connect a PDA with the PDA's battery low. *PDAs with low batteries can draw
> a LOT of current (over 1 A). *The 302 can supply plenty of current for all
> PDAs and PNAs I've seen - as long as they are fully or nearly fully charged.
>
> Paul Remde
> Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
>
> "GK" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> Will the DB-9 port provide power to the PDA?
>
> - Yes and no. The power source from C302 is problematic, especially
> when the battery on your PDA is charging. I have seen my C302 freezing
> and working erratically under those circumstances. It’s better if you
> provide the power via the power converter directly from your glider's
> battery.
> * * *The USB port on the C302 is pretty much useless since you have to
> switch communication between serial and the USB with a dip switch
> which is located at the back of the C302. In my case its still
> requires taking the canopy off to reach the back side of the C302
> anytime I like to use the USB port. You can also download flight logs
> and declare the task via the PDA serial communication and gliding
> software: Winpilot(and a small program you can obtain for free from
> Cambridge aero) or the Connect me from seeyou.
>
> GK

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

On 12/9/2011 7:59 AM, T8 wrote:
> Paul,
>
> Here's the deal: the back of my Ipaq 3950 says 5VDC, 2 amps.
>
> The 302 docs tell us we are limited to 0.9 amp out of the 302.
>
> You, and others, have led us into a marginal solution. I think you
> ought to quit doing that :-).
>
> I have about 500 hours of *mostly* trouble free PDA operation off my
> 302... because I *mostly* remember to have the the PDA at full
> charge. I've sometimes forgotten (mostly during a two day drive
> somewhere) and then had mysterious problems with the 302 (mostly 1200
> miles from home).

The back of my 3850 also says 5 vdc, 2 amps, but in 1200 hours/250
flights of use, I've never had a problem with it and my 302. At home, it
goes from the charging stand to the glider, but while traveling, it can
be 4 or 5 or more days between flights - still no problem.

Maybe my 3850 doesn't draw as much as a 3950, maybe your 3950 has a
battery problem so it's getting too low, too quickly, maybe there is a
problem with your 302 - can't tell - but I would not conclude it's a
marginal solution.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

[T8]

On Dec 9, 2:00*pm, Eric Greenwell > wrote:
> On 12/9/2011 7:59 AM, T8 wrote:
>
> > Paul,
>
> > Here's the deal: *the back of my Ipaq 3950 says 5VDC, 2 amps.
>
> > The 302 docs tell us we are limited to 0.9 amp out of the 302.
>
> > You, and others, have led us into a marginal solution. *I think you
> > ought to quit doing that :-).
>
> > I have about 500 hours of *mostly* trouble free PDA operation off my
> > 302... because I *mostly* remember to have the the PDA at full
> > charge. *I've sometimes forgotten (mostly during a two day drive
> > somewhere) and then had mysterious problems with the 302 (mostly 1200
> > miles from home).
>
> The back of my 3850 also says 5 vdc, 2 amps, but in 1200 hours/250
> flights of use, I've never had a problem with it and my 302. At home, it
> goes from the charging stand to the glider, but while traveling, it can
> be 4 or 5 or more days between flights - still no problem.
>
> Maybe my 3850 doesn't draw as much as a 3950, maybe your 3950 has a
> battery problem so it's getting too low, too quickly, maybe there is a
> problem with your 302 - can't tell - but I would not conclude it's a
> marginal solution.
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
> email me)

Or maybe this is exactly the sort of behavior that can be expected
when ratings are exceeded. Occasional failures in some, but not all
devices. It could be installation and environment dependent, too.

-Evan Ludeman / T8