Help Needed against proposed rules against gliders at Saratoga County Airport

[Tim Hanke]

Saratoga County Officials trying to push 100 glider pilots and two
soaring clubs out of the airport by using object free zones as
excuse.

Anyone run into this? Any ideas here on how to stop them from
finalizing rules?

http://www.saratogian.com/articles/2011/12/12/news/doc4ee6b3d6cd5e0600762759.txt


Thanks,

Tim Hanke
Adirondack Soaring

e-mail:

[ray conlon]

On Dec 15, 7:44*pm, Tim Hanke > wrote:
> Saratoga County Officials trying to push 100 glider pilots and two
> soaring clubs out of the airport by using object free zones as
> excuse.
>
> Anyone run into this? Any ideas here on how to stop them from
> finalizing rules?
>
> http://www.saratogian.com/articles/2011/12/12/news/doc4ee6b3d6cd5e060...
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim Hanke
> Adirondack Soaring
>
> e-mail:

Make contact with your local FAA engineering office and find out who
the airport uses for an engineering firm, and attend all airport board/
commission meetings, check with the SSA and AOPA for input.

[lanebush]

On Dec 15, 8:47*pm, ray conlon > wrote:
> On Dec 15, 7:44*pm, Tim Hanke > wrote:
>
> > Saratoga County Officials trying to push 100 glider pilots and two
> > soaring clubs out of the airport by using object free zones as
> > excuse.
>
> > Anyone run into this? Any ideas here on how to stop them from
> > finalizing rules?
>
> >http://www.saratogian.com/articles/2011/12/12/news/doc4ee6b3d6cd5e060...
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Tim Hanke
> > Adirondack Soaring
>
> > e-mail:
>
> Make contact with your local FAA engineering office and find out who
> the airport uses for an engineering firm, and attend all airport board/
> commission meetings, check with the SSA and AOPA for input.

There is an advisory circular that allows gliders to be towed to and
from the active runway for launch and recovery. It sounds like the
county is allowing that activity. I guess the assembly, disassembly
and parking of trailers is the issue. The butterfly further
complicates a tough situation. I hope it works out OK.

Lane
XF

[Larry Suter]

"They’ll then need to tow their aircraft out to the runways
individually using vehicles equipped with flashing yellow lights and
aeronautical radio."

We use golf carts to tow our gliders to the launch point at Byron, CA.
Can be as much as 2000', depending on the wind. Not so bad. At Minden
the tow is even longer and also done with golf carts with flashing
yellow lights and handheld radios.

Larry


On Dec 15, 7:00*pm, lanebush > wrote:
> On Dec 15, 8:47*pm, ray conlon > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 15, 7:44*pm, Tim Hanke > wrote:
>
> > > Saratoga County Officials trying to push 100 glider pilots and two
> > > soaring clubs out of the airport by using object free zones as
> > > excuse.
>
> > > Anyone run into this? Any ideas here on how to stop them from
> > > finalizing rules?
>
> > >http://www.saratogian.com/articles/2011/12/12/news/doc4ee6b3d6cd5e060....
>
> > > Thanks,
>
> > > Tim Hanke
> > > Adirondack Soaring
>
> > > e-mail:
>
> > Make contact with your local FAA engineering office and find out who
> > the airport uses for an engineering firm, and attend all airport board/
> > commission meetings, check with the SSA and AOPA for input.
>
> There is an advisory circular that allows gliders to be towed to and
> from the active runway for launch and recovery. *It sounds like the
> county is allowing that activity. *I guess the assembly, disassembly
> and parking of trailers is the issue. *The butterfly further
> complicates a tough situation. *I hope it works out OK.
>
> Lane
> XF

[Frank Whiteley]

On Dec 15, 8:00*pm, lanebush > wrote:
> On Dec 15, 8:47*pm, ray conlon > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 15, 7:44*pm, Tim Hanke > wrote:
>
> > > Saratoga County Officials trying to push 100 glider pilots and two
> > > soaring clubs out of the airport by using object free zones as
> > > excuse.
>
> > > Anyone run into this? Any ideas here on how to stop them from
> > > finalizing rules?
>
> > >http://www.saratogian.com/articles/2011/12/12/news/doc4ee6b3d6cd5e060....
>
> > > Thanks,
>
> > > Tim Hanke
> > > Adirondack Soaring
>
> > > e-mail:
>
> > Make contact with your local FAA engineering office and find out who
> > the airport uses for an engineering firm, and attend all airport board/
> > commission meetings, check with the SSA and AOPA for input.
>
> There is an advisory circular that allows gliders to be towed to and
> from the active runway for launch and recovery. *It sounds like the
> county is allowing that activity. *I guess the assembly, disassembly
> and parking of trailers is the issue. *The butterfly further
> complicates a tough situation. *I hope it works out OK.
>
> Lane
> XF

The gliders could use the grass, but I'm told the airport only mows it
a couple times annually due to the butterfly habitat. The tall grass
provides additional cover for wild turkeys. The population of blue
butterflies has been dropping. There is speculation that the
increased number of turkeys are eating the blue butterflies. The
original mowing of the airfield grass areas is probably what improved
the survival of the blue butterflies in the first place.

As for wild turkeys, they numbered 30,000 in 1900 due to over
hunting. Today there are 7,000,000.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-04-26-wild-turkey_N.htm

Frank Whiteley

[Frank Whiteley]

On Dec 15, 11:23*pm, Larry Suter > wrote:
> "They’ll then need to tow their aircraft out to the runways
> individually using vehicles equipped with flashing yellow lights and
> aeronautical radio."
>
> We use golf carts to tow our gliders to the launch point at Byron, CA.
> Can be as much as 2000', depending on the wind. Not so bad. At Minden
> the tow is even longer and also done with golf carts with flashing
> yellow lights and handheld radios.
>
> Larry
>
We had a flashing yellow light on our winch that operated when the
winch was in gear. It was not noticeable from 1500agl nor over 2000ft
laterally on a sunny day. Headlights work much better on ground
vehicles.

Frank Whiteley

[John Scott[_3_]]

There is an FAA memo that supports glider operations in the Obstacle Free
Area for stagin and launching as well as operations from the grass beside a
runway. However tow vehicles, trailers, and assembled gliders not staging
for launch or not being recovered after landing would need to be outside the
OFA. The memo is on the SSA website at

http://www.ssa.org/files/member/Parallel runway operations.pdf

At our airport, the officals requested all ground vehicles operating on the
runway towing gliders to be equipped with flashing lights. We looked into it
and determined the visiblity during our normal operating period (bright
daylight) of the vehicle with the flashing amber light was the same weather
the light was operating or not. Our proposal to use standard orange and
white ramp flags was accepted. We have several 2" and 1 1/4" hitch
extenders set up with flag poles and flags. This makes it easy to shift
between vehicles and does make the ground tow vehicle much more visible.

John Scott


"Tim Hanke" > wrote in message
...
> Saratoga County Officials trying to push 100 glider pilots and two
> soaring clubs out of the airport by using object free zones as
> excuse.
>
> Anyone run into this? Any ideas here on how to stop them from
> finalizing rules?
>
> http://www.saratogian.com/articles/2011/12/12/news/doc4ee6b3d6cd5e0600762759.txt
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim Hanke
> Adirondack Soaring
>
> e-mail: