Citabria with gyros

[Bob Esser]

After long consideration, I have decided on the type of plane to
purchase: A Citabria 7ECA. What led me to this decision was the
following desire. I want to be a part time instructor and I think the
perfect niche for me is roving tailwheel and spin trainer for the flight
schools in my area. I have about 75 hours in tailwheel planes and I am
nearing my commercial certificate, so, this will not happen for a few
months yet. So, tailwheel and spin training is my primary mission
profile.

Of course, add in that I would like to do some simple aerobatics in it
and possibly compete in basic and sportsman. I realize that a 7KCAB
would be better for the aerobatics purpose, but, it also has reduced
payload and increased operating cost. Besides, a 7ECA should be
competitive against the Cubs and Taylorcraft you occasionally see in the
Sport Aerobatics listings of recent competitions.

Here is the question: In order to make the plane more functional, and
increase its utility, it would be nice to have gyros in the panel. I
know that Citabrias have either a high or low panel, and that the high
panel can even be outfitted for IFR. How much damage does spinning and
occasional aerobatics do to the non-cagable gyros and how much extra
weight is involved in the high panel and three gyros (plus possibly one
more radio)?

Thanks for the information.

--
Bob Esser, Ph.D.
Electronic Sciences and Technology Division
Navy Research Lab
Washington, DC

[Rick Pellicciotti]

"Bob Esser" > wrote in message
...
> After long consideration, I have decided on the type of plane to
> purchase: A Citabria 7ECA. What led me to this decision was the
> following desire. I want to be a part time instructor and I think the
> perfect niche for me is roving tailwheel and spin trainer for the flight
> schools in my area. I have about 75 hours in tailwheel planes and I am
> nearing my commercial certificate, so, this will not happen for a few
> months yet. So, tailwheel and spin training is my primary mission
> profile.
>
> Of course, add in that I would like to do some simple aerobatics in it
> and possibly compete in basic and sportsman. I realize that a 7KCAB
> would be better for the aerobatics purpose, but, it also has reduced
> payload and increased operating cost. Besides, a 7ECA should be
> competitive against the Cubs and Taylorcraft you occasionally see in the
> Sport Aerobatics listings of recent competitions.
>
> Here is the question: In order to make the plane more functional, and
> increase its utility, it would be nice to have gyros in the panel. I
> know that Citabrias have either a high or low panel, and that the high
> panel can even be outfitted for IFR. How much damage does spinning and
> occasional aerobatics do to the non-cagable gyros and how much extra
> weight is involved in the high panel and three gyros (plus possibly one
> more radio)?
>
> Thanks for the information.
>
> --
> Bob Esser, Ph.D.
> Electronic Sciences and Technology Division
> Navy Research Lab
> Washington, DC
>

I have AIM electric gyros in my Waco YMF. Lots of rolling and looping in
the 850 hours it has flown since new. My AH just now rolled over and I am
sending it in for an overhaul. I just cage the AH with the caging knob and
fly all the aerobatics I want. Most times I pull the circuit breaker for
the gyros but sometimes I forget.

Rick Pellicciotti, Belle Aire Tours, Inc.
http://www.belleairetours.com

[Maule Driver]

"Bob Esser" > wrote in message
...
> How much damage does spinning and
> occasional aerobatics do to the non-cagable gyros and how much extra
> weight is involved in the high panel and three gyros (plus possibly one
> more radio)?

Don't know but I wonder what the experience of C150 operators was back when
spin training was required? They had gyros and they did spin.

[John Harper]

Hardly an expert opinion, but I'm doing unusual attitude training
in a Grob that has the usual vacuum instruments, and nobody
at the school seems bothered - and they don't even cage.
After the one spin session we've done so far, the AI was all
over the place. My instructor said "Don't worry, it'll be OK
for the next flight".

John

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
>
> >How much damage does spinning and
> >occasional aerobatics do to the non-cagable gyros and how much extra
> >weight is involved in the high panel and three gyros (plus possibly one
> >more radio)?
>
> Bob, when I went out to Chandler AZ for spin training a couple years
> ago (see www.danford.net/chandler.htm) I asked to do it in a Super
> Cub, since that was closest to what I usually fly. I was told that
> they didn't intentionally spin the PA-18 or the Husky because of the
> gyros, and that I could only take the training in a Great Lakes.
>
>
> all the best -- Dan Ford
> email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9
>
> see the Warbird's Forum at http://www.danford.net/index.htm
> Vietnam | Flying Tigers | Pacific War | Brewster Buffalo | Piper Cub

[Dave Swartz]

How much damage does spinning and
> occasional aerobatics do to the non-cagable gyros and how much extra
> weight is involved in the high panel and three gyros (plus possibly one
> more radio)?



Gyro instuments are subject to damage under the stress of aerobatics.
There are some expensive gyro's out there that are built to withstand
aerobatics but typical units will suffer a short life. Some aircraft
are fitted with removeable gyro packages for this reason. If you are
not looking to file IFR and just want something for a little extra
security during VFR flight, take a look at some of the totally solid
state packages that provide a poor man's glass cockpit on an IPaq or
equivalent hand held computer. The sensor package is set up to be
velcro mounted in the cockpit so it can be removed when not needed. I
haven't looked at prices lately but they were about $1500 a year ago
at Sun n Fun.


Dave Swartz
Fort Lauderdale, Florida
http://www.FlightFantastic.US

[Robert M. Gary]

Bob Esser > wrote in message >...
> Here is the question: In order to make the plane more functional, and
> increase its utility, it would be nice to have gyros in the panel. I
> know that Citabrias have either a high or low panel, and that the high
> panel can even be outfitted for IFR. How much damage does spinning and
> occasional aerobatics do to the non-cagable gyros and how much extra
> weight is involved in the high panel and three gyros (plus possibly one
> more radio)?

It depends on what you want to use the gyros for. Most FBOs will not
spin planes used for IFR training. The gyros aren't going to just die
because of the spin training but they won't work as well over the long
run.

[John Galban]

Cub Driver > wrote in message >...
>
> Bob, when I went out to Chandler AZ for spin training a couple years
> ago (see www.danford.net/chandler.htm) I asked to do it in a Super
> Cub, since that was closest to what I usually fly. I was told that
> they didn't intentionally spin the PA-18 or the Husky because of the
> gyros, and that I could only take the training in a Great Lakes.
>

That may be true given the volume of spin training that Chandler Air
Service does. Chances are good that one of their airplanes is
spinning most any time of the day.

I've also heard the warnings about spinning and gyros and I can
report that I have been spinning my plane on a regular basis for the
last 10 yrs. with no ill effect on the gyros. I probably average 5 -
10 spins per month. All three gyros have been in the plane since I
bought it and have never been overhauled. The AI usually tumbles in
the spin entry right around 90 degrees. According to some, they
should have rolled over dead on the 4th or 5th spin. Maybe I have
"Gyros of Steel", but that's been my experience.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)