Will pilots always be kept in the loop (re: automation)?

[Justin Maas]

Hey all,

Now that I'm starting to fly more automated aircraft, I'm getting
worried about where it's all going. Right now, I really enjoy programming
in the flight and "flipping switches," as it's actually very satisfying.
Most avionics in the works are keeping the pilots in the loop, but how long
will it be before professional pilots are just like the men that used to be
in an elevator (or even out of the cockpit)? I'd like to think that cockpit
automation will stay the way it is, but I'd like to hear insight from
others.

Blue Skies!
Justin

PS - Getting back to real flying on the 20th, when I'll be flying amphib
caravans from Wisc. to central Canada!

[Rich H.]

> ...how long will it be before professional pilots are just like the
> men that used to be in an elevator...

I'd put money on 50 years, +- 20. The technology already exists, but
it'll take a long time to make it cost-effective and overhaul the
infrastructure needed to implement & support it.

> ...(or even out of the cockpit)?

Given that the above comes about "on schedule"; 50-50 we'll see routine
unmanned cargo flights over ocean routes by 2075. Passenger flights;
not for at least a century, probably half again that. We're talking
several rounds of revolutionary advances in computing intelligence and
fault-tolerance to come up with a machine that can safely and
effectively replace a passenger aircraft flight crew at something
approaching the cost & weight of same, plus a LONG run in the
aforementioned cargo aircraft to prove out the tech to where your
average traveler would board RoboPlane. The psychological issue will be
more difficult to overcome than the technological one. Note that a lot
of people don't even like to ride in automated subway cars.

All IMHO, of course, but I'd like to think it's a reasonably
well-informed HO.

RH (PP-ASEL; software engineer; AI maven)

[Capt. Doug]

>Justin Maas wrote in message > Most avionics in the works are keeping the
pilots in >the loop, but how long
> will it be before professional pilots are just like the men that used to
be
> in an elevator (or even out of the cockpit)?

I don't think a person on the ground armed with a joystick and a video
monitor will ever have enough of the picture to be able to pick a smooth
ride through a squall line.


D.

[journeyman]

On Wed, 09 Jul 2003 18:31:57 GMT, Justin Maas > wrote:
>Most avionics in the works are keeping the pilots in the loop, but how long
>will it be before professional pilots are just like the men that used to be
>in an elevator (or even out of the cockpit)? I'd like to think that cockpit
>automation will stay the way it is, but I'd like to hear insight from
>others.

Really old joke: the cockpit of the future will have a man and a dog.
The man is there to feed the dog and the dog is there to bite the man
if he touches anything.


>PS - Getting back to real flying on the 20th, when I'll be flying amphib
>caravans from Wisc. to central Canada!

Awesome!


Morris

[Justin Maas]

I agree - I think discretion is something that needs to be up at 24,000 with
the aircraft. Transmission jamming technology might also become a veritable
foe of UAVs.

On top of all that, I think the only ones with vested interest in such
ideas are 121 operations, as Mike mentioned in the first reply. A lot of
part 135 operations are VIP missions - I know of several CEOs that aren't
allowed to fly commercial because of their insurance policies. In such
situations, you want and can afford people to be there. EVS onboard the GV
is a good example - it's a piece of technology serving the pilot and his/her
ability to fly.

Justin "hoping he has a future" Maas

[Robert Moore]

"Justin Maas" wrote
> A lot of part 135 operations are VIP missions - I know of
> several CEOs that aren't allowed to fly commercial because of
> their insurance policies.

What a bunch of BS. Part 121 operations are statisically the
safest form of flying without question.
Those CEOs just don't want to share the plane with the poor
folks. They also want a flightcrew (chauffeur) who will show
them "proper respect".

Bob Moore

[Justin Maas]

Bob,

Sorry, I wasn't clear - I was referring to the destinations that some of
these people fly to, where corporate kidnap is a reality. Definitely not
referring to safety issues. I agree that most CEOs have that stipulation
written due to their lifestyle, however. The point I was trying to make
about 121 ops is the one Mike made: there will always be some admin. wanting
a bigger bonus who sees flightcrews as a whole in his pocket.

Justin

[Brent Bigler]

I wonder sometimes whether certain commercial flight routes might not be
replaced by some sort of tunneling system. Imagine a trip from New York to
London in, say, 90 minutes traveling on a maglev in a partial-vacuum tube
beneath the sea. The vacuum would seem to allow very high speeds because of
reduced wind resistance. I suppose we have the technology to do it even now,
although the cost would be high.

...then again, our transport methods haven't changed much since the jet,
even as the pace of technological change in other areas has quickened. Maybe
these are all, uh, pipe dreams...

--Brent

"Justin Maas" > wrote in message
...
> Hey all,
>
> Now that I'm starting to fly more automated aircraft, I'm getting
> worried about where it's all going. Right now, I really enjoy programming
> in the flight and "flipping switches," as it's actually very satisfying.
> Most avionics in the works are keeping the pilots in the loop, but how
long
> will it be before professional pilots are just like the men that used to
be
> in an elevator (or even out of the cockpit)? I'd like to think that
cockpit
> automation will stay the way it is, but I'd like to hear insight from
> others.
>
> Blue Skies!
> Justin
>
> PS - Getting back to real flying on the 20th, when I'll be flying amphib
> caravans from Wisc. to central Canada!
>
>

[Big John]

Brent

They have demonstrated in the lab "Beam me up Scotty".

In a century that may be the accepted mode of travel?

Who would have thought 70 years ago that we would have lazers that
could kill at a distance. Just like the Ray Guns in Buck Rogers Comics
I used to read.

Oh to be young again to see some ot the things comming.

Big John
Point of the sword


On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 21:30:16 GMT, "Brent Bigler" >
wrote:

> I wonder sometimes whether certain commercial flight routes might not be
>replaced by some sort of tunneling system. Imagine a trip from New York to
>London in, say, 90 minutes traveling on a maglev in a partial-vacuum tube
>beneath the sea. The vacuum would seem to allow very high speeds because of
>reduced wind resistance. I suppose we have the technology to do it even now,
>although the cost would be high.
>
> ...then again, our transport methods haven't changed much since the jet,
>even as the pace of technological change in other areas has quickened. Maybe
>these are all, uh, pipe dreams...
>
>--Brent
>
>"Justin Maas" > wrote in message
...
>> Hey all,
>>
>> Now that I'm starting to fly more automated aircraft, I'm getting
>> worried about where it's all going. Right now, I really enjoy programming
>> in the flight and "flipping switches," as it's actually very satisfying.
>> Most avionics in the works are keeping the pilots in the loop, but how
>long
>> will it be before professional pilots are just like the men that used to
>be
>> in an elevator (or even out of the cockpit)? I'd like to think that
>cockpit
>> automation will stay the way it is, but I'd like to hear insight from
>> others.
>>
>> Blue Skies!
>> Justin
>>
>> PS - Getting back to real flying on the 20th, when I'll be flying amphib
>> caravans from Wisc. to central Canada!
>>
>>
>

[G.R. Patterson III]

Justin Maas wrote:
>
> Most avionics in the works are keeping the pilots in the loop, but how long
> will it be before professional pilots are just like the men that used to be
> in an elevator (or even out of the cockpit)?

I've got a collection of Bill Mauldin's cartoons from the 60's. In one of
them, a pilot is sitting on the wheel of his F-104 dispairing over the
headlines, which claim that manned fighters will soon be obsolete. Mauldin's
"Joe" character, a WW II frontline GI, tells him "Don't let it get you, bub.
I been outa style fer 20 years."

That advice is still good.

George Patterson
The optimist feels that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The
pessimist is afraid that he's correct.
James Branch Cavel