Al-Qaida targeted Western forests, memo says

[Mutts]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0711forestterror11.html

"I thought about it a lot after 9/11," said Don Riddle, the law
enforcement officer for the Manti-LaSal National Forest in Utah. "How
hard would it be for someone to get in a small plane and fly over a
forest dropping fusees (flares) or firing off a flare gun as they flew
over?"

[Ron Natalie]

"Mutts" > wrote in message ...
> http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0711forestterror11.html
>
> "I thought about it a lot after 9/11," said Don Riddle, the law
> enforcement officer for the Manti-LaSal National Forest in Utah. "How
> hard would it be for someone to get in a small plane and fly over a
> forest dropping fusees (flares) or firing off a flare gun as they flew
> over?"
About as easy as it would be to drive through throwing them out the window.

[Bob Noel]

In article >, "Ron
Natalie" > wrote:

> > "I thought about it a lot after 9/11," said Don Riddle, the law
> > enforcement officer for the Manti-LaSal National Forest in Utah. "How
> > hard would it be for someone to get in a small plane and fly over a
> > forest dropping fusees (flares) or firing off a flare gun as they flew
> > over?"
> About as easy as it would be to drive through throwing them out the
> window.

but guess which threat will receive the most press. :-(

(actually, a drive-through would be easier).

--
Bob Noel

[Neal]

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 14:44:17 -0700, Mutts > wrote:

>http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0711forestterror11.html
>
>"I thought about it a lot after 9/11," said Don Riddle, the law
>enforcement officer for the Manti-LaSal National Forest in Utah. "How
>hard would it be for someone to get in a small plane and fly over a
>forest dropping fusees (flares) or firing off a flare gun as they flew
>over?"

A lot harder than committing arson from a ground vehicle or even on
foot.

[Peter Gottlieb]

I forget the news story I saw it in, but some official was quoted as saying
dropping from a plane could reach very inaccessible areas, giving the fires
more time to get going before firefighters arrived. The story also
mentioned the preferred plan ended up being to leave time-delay incendiary
devices hidden deep in the woods which were carried in by person.


"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Ron
> Natalie" > wrote:
>
> > > "I thought about it a lot after 9/11," said Don Riddle, the law
> > > enforcement officer for the Manti-LaSal National Forest in Utah. "How
> > > hard would it be for someone to get in a small plane and fly over a
> > > forest dropping fusees (flares) or firing off a flare gun as they flew
> > > over?"
> > About as easy as it would be to drive through throwing them out the
> > window.
>
> but guess which threat will receive the most press. :-(
>
> (actually, a drive-through would be easier).
>
> --
> Bob Noel

[Montblack]

("G.R. Patterson III" wrote)
> Interesting that the Al-Quaida guy they interviewed was planning to set
> them off on the ground.

He got the brilliant idea from watching the news on TV. See, he figured he'd
go to an unoccupied campsite and set some old love letters on fire ....

We don't need terrorists in our forests, we've already got enough idiots to
do the job.

--
Montblack

[Peter Gottlieb]

"Montblack" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> We don't need terrorists in our forests, we've already got enough idiots
to
> do the job.
>


Sadly, you are quite correct.

[Al]

Lightning causes most fires, and fire is quite natural. I'll never
understand the many millions thrown at fighting them.

--
remove underscores to email


"Peter Gottlieb" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "Montblack" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >
> > We don't need terrorists in our forests, we've already got enough idiots
> to
> > do the job.

[Ron Natalie]

"Al" > wrote in message . com...
> Lightning causes most fires, and fire is quite natural. I'll never
> understand the many millions thrown at fighting them.
>
Because taxpayers build houses in the affected areas.

[Ron Natalie]

"Peter Gottlieb" > wrote in message et...
> I forget the news story I saw it in, but some official was quoted as saying
> dropping from a plane could reach very inaccessible areas, giving the fires
> more time to get going before firefighters arrived. The story also
> mentioned the preferred plan ended up being to leave time-delay incendiary
> devices hidden deep in the woods which were carried in by person.

Allows you to place it where it might actually get a fire started. Dropping
them out of planes is sort of random.

[Newps]

Drop an incendiary device anywhere in a western forest at this time of
year and it will start a fire.

Ron Natalie wrote:
> "Peter Gottlieb" > wrote in message et...
>
>>I forget the news story I saw it in, but some official was quoted as saying
>>dropping from a plane could reach very inaccessible areas, giving the fires
>>more time to get going before firefighters arrived. The story also
>>mentioned the preferred plan ended up being to leave time-delay incendiary
>>devices hidden deep in the woods which were carried in by person.
>
>
> Allows you to place it where it might actually get a fire started. Dropping
> them out of planes is sort of random.
>
>

[H. Adam Stevens]

But I don't WANT to burn any old love letters!


"Newps" > wrote in message
et...
> Drop an incendiary device anywhere in a western forest at this time of
> year and it will start a fire.
>
> Ron Natalie wrote:
> > "Peter Gottlieb" > wrote in message
et...
> >
> >>I forget the news story I saw it in, but some official was quoted as
saying
> >>dropping from a plane could reach very inaccessible areas, giving the
fires
> >>more time to get going before firefighters arrived. The story also
> >>mentioned the preferred plan ended up being to leave time-delay
incendiary
> >>devices hidden deep in the woods which were carried in by person.
> >
> >
> > Allows you to place it where it might actually get a fire started.
Dropping
> > them out of planes is sort of random.
> >
> >
>

[Peter Gottlieb]

What I find to be the most interesting part is how the actual terrorists
talk about going in on foot yet the threat our government worries about is
completely different.

I guess they figure they can't stop people walking in so they talk about the
threat from the air.


"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Peter Gottlieb" > wrote in message
et...
> > I forget the news story I saw it in, but some official was quoted as
saying
> > dropping from a plane could reach very inaccessible areas, giving the
fires
> > more time to get going before firefighters arrived. The story also
> > mentioned the preferred plan ended up being to leave time-delay
incendiary
> > devices hidden deep in the woods which were carried in by person.
>
> Allows you to place it where it might actually get a fire started.
Dropping
> them out of planes is sort of random.
>
>

[L Smith]

Newps wrote:

> Drop an incendiary device anywhere in a western forest at this time of
> year and it will start a fire.

During WWII the Japanese tried to start forest fires in the west by
sending incendiary bombs
on balloons across the Pacific. They killed four kids and a Sunday
School Teacher (IIRC)
in the Roseburg area (about an hour south of Eugene), but other than
that they had little
effect on the forests.

Rich Lemert

[G.R. Patterson III]

L Smith wrote:
>
> Newps wrote:
>
> > Drop an incendiary device anywhere in a western forest at this time of
> > year and it will start a fire.
>
> During WWII the Japanese tried to start forest fires in the west by
> sending incendiary bombs
> on balloons across the Pacific.

Yeah, but the Japanese efforts were on the Pacific side of the mountains.
It's *much* drier on the other side. That's where Utah is.

George Patterson
The optimist feels that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The
pessimist is afraid that he's correct.
James Branch Cavel

[H. Adam Stevens]

Utah?
Go for it.

"G.R. Patterson III" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> L Smith wrote:
> >
> > Newps wrote:
> >
> > > Drop an incendiary device anywhere in a western forest at this time of
> > > year and it will start a fire.
> >
> > During WWII the Japanese tried to start forest fires in the west by
> > sending incendiary bombs
> > on balloons across the Pacific.
>
> Yeah, but the Japanese efforts were on the Pacific side of the mountains.
> It's *much* drier on the other side. That's where Utah is.
>
> George Patterson
> The optimist feels that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The
> pessimist is afraid that he's correct.
> James Branch Cavel

[Larry Dighera]

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:40:06 -0700, "David Brooks"
> wrote in Message-Id:
>:

>"Newps" > wrote in message
et...
>> Oh, please, you couldn't start a fire near Seattle if you had a match
>> and some gasoline.
>
>Wrong. You don't need the match.
>http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/130660_tanker12ww.html


11,300 gallons of gasoline burning and still no forest fire.

[Peter Duniho]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> 11,300 gallons of gasoline burning and still no forest fire.

All the trees had already been cut down there.

It's hard to have a forest fire without a forest.

[Larry Dighera]

On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:19:00 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
> wrote in Message-Id:
>:

>All the trees had already been cut down there.


The news article failed to mention that fact.

[Newps]

It didn't burn anything except the gas in the tank. I rest my case.

David Brooks wrote:
> "Newps" > wrote in message
> et...
>
>>Oh, please, you couldn't start a fire near Seattle if you had a match
>>and some gasoline.
>
>
> Wrong. You don't need the match.
> http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/130660_tanker12ww.html
>
> -- David Brooks
>
>

[David Brooks]

It was just a joke, folks. You chose the right moment to talk about gasoline
fires and Seattle (or the wrong moment, if you were on I-5 at the time).

BTW, our dry/hot season started a month early this year. Usually the rain
stops, on schedule, on July 5 (or the 7th if 7/4 falls on a Friday). I moved
house on the hottest day of the year last week: 95 degrees isn't much for
many of you, but it's plenty for those of us accustomed to a British/PNW
climate. It did rain briefly Saturday evening though.

-- David Brooks

"Newps" > wrote in message
news:lS2Ra.60447$GL4.15260@rwcrnsc53...
> It didn't burn anything except the gas in the tank. I rest my case.
>
> David Brooks wrote:
> > "Newps" > wrote in message
> > et...
> >
> >>Oh, please, you couldn't start a fire near Seattle if you had a match
> >>and some gasoline.
> >
> >
> > Wrong. You don't need the match.
> > http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/130660_tanker12ww.html
> >
> > -- David Brooks

[Larry Dighera]

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 23:24:18 GMT, Bob Noel
> wrote in Message-Id:
>:

>In article >, "Ron
>Natalie" > wrote:
>
>> > "I thought about it a lot after 9/11," said Don Riddle, the law
>> > enforcement officer for the Manti-LaSal National Forest in Utah. "How
>> > hard would it be for someone to get in a small plane and fly over a
>> > forest dropping fusees (flares) or firing off a flare gun as they flew
>> > over?"
>> About as easy as it would be to drive through throwing them out the
>> window.
>
>but guess which threat will receive the most press. :-(
>
>(actually, a drive-through would be easier).


Here's a little incident that should interest US airmen of Arab
descent:


http://tinylink.com/?82VaTW15ZV
FBI Apologizes For Detaining Indiana Muslims
Eight Men Detained After Sept. 11, 2001
The Indy Channel - April 24, 2003

EVANSVILLE, Ind. -- The head of the FBI in Indiana publicly
apologized for the detention of eight Egyptian men from
Evansville, who were held as part of a terrorism investigation
just weeks after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

Saying the secretive detentions came at a time of unprecedented
fear in the nation, FBI Special Agent Thomas V. Fuentes
acknowledged Wednesday that the detention caused the men and their
families distress and humiliation long after the government
cleared them of suspicion.

"The situation that happened to you was horrible," Fuentes told
former detainee Tarek Albasti during a meeting at the Islamic
Center of Evansville. "On behalf of the FBI, I will apologize."

Fuentes, in front of a crowd of about 100 local Muslims, also said
he would push through paperwork that would formally clear Albasti,
an Evansville restaurant owner, and the seven other men detained
for a week with him by federal terrorism investigators in October
2001. Details



Tonight's TV news report indicated, that Tarek Albasti (a naturalized
American of Arab descent, apparently married to a non Arab, and
raising a family) received flying lessons as a gift from his
father-in-law, a pilot. He was held by the government without benefit
of council nor being charged with a crime for days (as a material
witness). Being of Arab descent and taking flight instruction was all
the FBI needed to violate the former Constitutional rights of this
American airman.

We Airmen are now targets for arrest as a result of the 9/11/2001 acts
of 19 terrorists. Given the gestapo mentality unleashed by baby Bush,
it has me wondering who will be next?



-----------------------------------------------------------------

[H. Adam Stevens]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 23:24:18 GMT, Bob Noel
> > wrote in Message-Id:
> >:
>
> >In article >, "Ron
> >Natalie" > wrote:
> >
> >> > "I thought about it a lot after 9/11," said Don Riddle, the law
> >> > enforcement officer for the Manti-LaSal National Forest in Utah. "How
> >> > hard would it be for someone to get in a small plane and fly over a
> >> > forest dropping fusees (flares) or firing off a flare gun as they
flew
> >> > over?"
> >> About as easy as it would be to drive through throwing them out the
> >> window.
> >
> >but guess which threat will receive the most press. :-(
> >
> >(actually, a drive-through would be easier).
>
>
> Here's a little incident that should interest US airmen of Arab
> descent:
>
>
> http://tinylink.com/?82VaTW15ZV
> FBI Apologizes For Detaining Indiana Muslims
> Eight Men Detained After Sept. 11, 2001
> The Indy Channel - April 24, 2003
>
> EVANSVILLE, Ind. -- The head of the FBI in Indiana publicly
> apologized for the detention of eight Egyptian men from
> Evansville, who were held as part of a terrorism investigation
> just weeks after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.
>
> Saying the secretive detentions came at a time of unprecedented
> fear in the nation, FBI Special Agent Thomas V. Fuentes
> acknowledged Wednesday that the detention caused the men and their
> families distress and humiliation long after the government
> cleared them of suspicion.
>
> "The situation that happened to you was horrible," Fuentes told
> former detainee Tarek Albasti during a meeting at the Islamic
> Center of Evansville. "On behalf of the FBI, I will apologize."
>
> Fuentes, in front of a crowd of about 100 local Muslims, also said
> he would push through paperwork that would formally clear Albasti,
> an Evansville restaurant owner, and the seven other men detained
> for a week with him by federal terrorism investigators in October
> 2001. Details
>
>
>
> Tonight's TV news report indicated, that Tarek Albasti (a naturalized
> American of Arab descent, apparently married to a non Arab, and
> raising a family) received flying lessons as a gift from his
> father-in-law, a pilot. He was held by the government without benefit
> of council nor being charged with a crime for days (as a material
> witness). Being of Arab descent and taking flight instruction was all
> the FBI needed to violate the former Constitutional rights of this
> American airman.
>
> We Airmen are now targets for arrest as a result of the 9/11/2001 acts
> of 19 terrorists. Given the gestapo mentality unleashed by baby Bush,
> it has me wondering who will be next?
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
What is astounding was the blatant presence in the mid 90's of so many
overtly militant Arabs at flight schools here in central Texas.
We used to joke we were training our own hijackers; Nobody noticed.
I take that back. In Arizona I think it was, one FBI type noticed and was
ignored.
The feds did not recently get smarter, either.
H.
N502TB