XCSoar or LK8000?

[Dan Marotta]

I've had a couple of flights using XCSoar on a Mio but the season
essentially over and I don't have much of an opinion yet. I've since
upgraded to a Samsung Galaxy Player running Android and connected via
Bluetooth to the CAI-302 and have spent quite a few hours playing with the
SIM mode and planning for my first 1,000K attempt next summer. I'm quite
impressed with how XCSoar works!

Now I'm looking at LK8000 and like the look of the displays so I think I'll
download, install, and play with it just to see how it works.

Has anyone here used both? What are your opinions? Who knows - I may try
running both simultaneously and comparing the results.

The runway at Moriarty, NM has been plowed but the taxiways are still choked
with snow and ice... Three more months...

[Dan Marotta]

Hmmmmmmmmm... Further research indicates there's currently no Android
version of LK8000...

I guess I'll have a look on the laptop and see if I think it's worth
downloading if it's ever ready for Android.


"Dan Marotta" > wrote in message
...
> I've had a couple of flights using XCSoar on a Mio but the season
> essentially over and I don't have much of an opinion yet. I've since
> upgraded to a Samsung Galaxy Player running Android and connected via
> Bluetooth to the CAI-302 and have spent quite a few hours playing with the
> SIM mode and planning for my first 1,000K attempt next summer. I'm quite
> impressed with how XCSoar works!
>
> Now I'm looking at LK8000 and like the look of the displays so I think
> I'll download, install, and play with it just to see how it works.
>
> Has anyone here used both? What are your opinions? Who knows - I may try
> running both simultaneously and comparing the results.
>
> The runway at Moriarty, NM has been plowed but the taxiways are still
> choked with snow and ice... Three more months...

[Ian[_2_]]

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 10:44:09 -0700, "Dan Marotta"
> wrote:
> Has anyone here used both? What are your opinions? Who knows - I
may try

The most significant difference between these two is not their
interfaces or feature list. It is the philosophy of their respective
developers. XCsoar developers encourage teamwork and input from all
interested parties. LK8000 is developed mainly by one individual who
does not encourage cooperative development to the extent that the
rights of the (XCsoar) developers who's code was used in the original
version of LK8000 were infringed for a period.

In the long run, with cooperative development XCsoar will achieve
more than LK8000 and many equivalent commercial products.

Perhaps that is why Xcsoar already runs on Android devices like this
Dell Streak which has the best sunlight readable screen on any
consumer grade PDA and supports ioio hardware which allows Androids
to interface with serial ports on gliding loggers etc and can
simultaneously read NMEA data from Flarm and a gliding computer.

Ie Flarm radar and real time wind data on a screen you can read with
your sunglasses on - available right now!

Ian

[Wayne Paul]

Ian,

Currently I'm running LK8000 on a iPAQ hx 4700. I have it configured to
bring the NMEA data from my GPS on device 1 using the iPAQ's serial port.
Device 2 is configured for the iPAQ's Bluetooth port. I have connected a
K-6 BT Bluetooth interface to my Borgelt B-50. This configuration works
great. When I finally receive my PowerFLARM it will replace the GPS as
Device 1. I have no reason to believe that this will not work.

For those who fly contests, the tasking section of XCSoar is definitely
superior to the current version of LK8000. However, for guys like me who
primarily fly cross country, the touch interface and the expanded ability to
customize LK8000 to meet personal need places it in first place. I
especially like screens 2.1 thru 2.4 which provide data relating to all
alternates, not just the ones visible on the screen.

I find the maps on both XCSoar and LK8000 adequate. For me, the difference
in the quality of a map isn't a deal breaker.

The fact that both programs are free allows me to monitor the progress of
LK8000 on my PDA and XCSoar on my Android based phone. If I find new
versions of XCSoar a better fit, I'll switch back to it.

Thank you for tolerating my rambling.

Wayne
http://www.soaridaho.com/




"Ian" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 10:44:09 -0700, "Dan Marotta"
> wrote:
> Has anyone here used both? What are your opinions? Who knows - I
may try

The most significant difference between these two is not their
interfaces or feature list. It is the philosophy of their respective
developers. XCsoar developers encourage teamwork and input from all
interested parties. LK8000 is developed mainly by one individual who
does not encourage cooperative development to the extent that the
rights of the (XCsoar) developers who's code was used in the original
version of LK8000 were infringed for a period.

In the long run, with cooperative development XCsoar will achieve
more than LK8000 and many equivalent commercial products.

Perhaps that is why Xcsoar already runs on Android devices like this
Dell Streak which has the best sunlight readable screen on any
consumer grade PDA and supports ioio hardware which allows Androids
to interface with serial ports on gliding loggers etc and can
simultaneously read NMEA data from Flarm and a gliding computer.

Ie Flarm radar and real time wind data on a screen you can read with
your sunglasses on - available right now!

Ian

[Mike[_37_]]

On Dec 28, 10:44*am, "Dan Marotta" > wrote:
> I've had a couple of flights using XCSoar on a Mio but the season
> essentially over and I don't have much of an opinion yet. *I've since
> upgraded to a Samsung Galaxy Player running Android and connected via
> Bluetooth to the CAI-302 and have spent quite a few hours playing with the
> SIM mode and planning for my first 1,000K attempt next summer. *I'm quite
> impressed with how XCSoar works!
>
> Now I'm looking at LK8000 and like the look of the displays so I think I'll
> download, install, and play with it just to see how it works.
>
> Has anyone here used both? *What are your opinions? *Who knows - I may try
> running both simultaneously and comparing the results.
>
> The runway at Moriarty, NM has been plowed but the taxiways are still choked
> with snow and ice... *Three more months...


Not sure one is better than the other, but...

I have used both for cross country soaring and currently use XCSoar.
The main reason at this point is "Android".
The modern Android devices are very stable, have faster processors
and the screens are better in direct sunlight.

I have used LK8000 with both the MIO stand alone and a 4700 series
IPAQ via blue tooth to a Nano, and it works well on both, but I think
XCSoar used with a Streak 5 or 7 is superior.

Both programs are as good or better than anything you can buy.

Mike

[David Salmon[_2_]]

At 01:07 29 December 2011, Wayne Paul wrote:
>Ian,
>
>Currently I'm running LK8000 on a iPAQ hx 4700. I have it configured to
>bring the NMEA data from my GPS on device 1 using the iPAQ's serial port.

>Device 2 is configured for the iPAQ's Bluetooth port. I have connected a

>K-6 BT Bluetooth interface to my Borgelt B-50. This configuration works
>great. When I finally receive my PowerFLARM it will replace the GPS as
>Device 1. I have no reason to believe that this will not work.
>
>For those who fly contests, the tasking section of XCSoar is definitely
>superior to the current version of LK8000. However, for guys like me who

>primarily fly cross country, the touch interface and the expanded ability
>to
>customize LK8000 to meet personal need places it in first place. I
>especially like screens 2.1 thru 2.4 which provide data relating to all
>alternates, not just the ones visible on the screen.
>
>I find the maps on both XCSoar and LK8000 adequate. For me, the
difference
>
>in the quality of a map isn't a deal breaker.
>
>The fact that both programs are free allows me to monitor the progress of

>LK8000 on my PDA and XCSoar on my Android based phone. If I find new
>versions of XCSoar a better fit, I'll switch back to it.
>
>Thank you for tolerating my rambling.
>
>Wayne
>http://www.soaridaho.com/
>
>
>
>
>"Ian" wrote in message
...
>
>On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 10:44:09 -0700, "Dan Marotta"
> wrote:
>> Has anyone here used both? What are your opinions? Who knows - I
>may try
>
>The most significant difference between these two is not their
>interfaces or feature list. It is the philosophy of their respective
>developers. XCsoar developers encourage teamwork and input from all
>interested parties. LK8000 is developed mainly by one individual who
>does not encourage cooperative development to the extent that the
>rights of the (XCsoar) developers who's code was used in the original
>version of LK8000 were infringed for a period.
>
>In the long run, with cooperative development XCsoar will achieve
>more than LK8000 and many equivalent commercial products.
>
>Perhaps that is why Xcsoar already runs on Android devices like this
>Dell Streak which has the best sunlight readable screen on any
>consumer grade PDA and supports ioio hardware which allows Androids
>to interface with serial ports on gliding loggers etc and can
>simultaneously read NMEA data from Flarm and a gliding computer.
>
>Ie Flarm radar and real time wind data on a screen you can read with
>your sunglasses on - available right now!
>
>Ian
>
>
>
Just like the previous thread, this is very much a matter of personal
taste. I go back with XCSoar to when it was first brought out by a group
in the UK, then a bit later by the Australian headed group. I changed to
LK8000 when it came out, because it was designed for the better visible car
navigators.
I keep up with XCSoar developments, but so far have seen nothing to make me
consider changing back, I much prefer the interface, and range of features
in LK8000.
Whilst it is fair to say that LK8000 was initially developed by one man,
who had been a developer with XCSoar, this did result in very rapid
development, the best committee being that consisting of one member. Paolo
has though, gathered an international group of other developers and
testers. He also was, and still is, very quick to react to suggestions and
problems, sometimes in hours, I don't know when he sleeps!
The gliding community owes a big debt of gratitude to both these groups,
who have provided us with two fantastic navigation programs, and both are
free.
Dave

[Tim Mara]

I have several either factory refurbished or very good used HP 310's
starting at $150.00 complete that appear to be perfectly suited for LK8000.
The HP310 has built in GPS and internal battery and also comes with a
suitable modifiable mount, 12VDC Cables and PC Cables. With LK8000 as a free
software for soaring pilots the HP 310 makes just about the lowest cost
flight navigation and flight computer available.
Anyone interested in these HP310's can contact me from here or my website
regards
Tim Mara
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com

"Wayne Paul" > wrote in message
m...
> Ian,
>
> Currently I'm running LK8000 on a iPAQ hx 4700. I have it configured to
> bring the NMEA data from my GPS on device 1 using the iPAQ's serial port.
> Device 2 is configured for the iPAQ's Bluetooth port. I have connected a
> K-6 BT Bluetooth interface to my Borgelt B-50. This configuration works
> great. When I finally receive my PowerFLARM it will replace the GPS as
> Device 1. I have no reason to believe that this will not work.
>
> For those who fly contests, the tasking section of XCSoar is definitely
> superior to the current version of LK8000. However, for guys like me who
> primarily fly cross country, the touch interface and the expanded ability
> to customize LK8000 to meet personal need places it in first place. I
> especially like screens 2.1 thru 2.4 which provide data relating to all
> alternates, not just the ones visible on the screen.
>
> I find the maps on both XCSoar and LK8000 adequate. For me, the
> difference in the quality of a map isn't a deal breaker.
>
> The fact that both programs are free allows me to monitor the progress of
> LK8000 on my PDA and XCSoar on my Android based phone. If I find new
> versions of XCSoar a better fit, I'll switch back to it.
>
> Thank you for tolerating my rambling.
>
> Wayne
> http://www.soaridaho.com/
>
>
>
>
> "Ian" wrote in message
> ...
>
> On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 10:44:09 -0700, "Dan Marotta"
> > wrote:
>> Has anyone here used both? What are your opinions? Who knows - I
> may try
>
> The most significant difference between these two is not their
> interfaces or feature list. It is the philosophy of their respective
> developers. XCsoar developers encourage teamwork and input from all
> interested parties. LK8000 is developed mainly by one individual who
> does not encourage cooperative development to the extent that the
> rights of the (XCsoar) developers who's code was used in the original
> version of LK8000 were infringed for a period.
>
> In the long run, with cooperative development XCsoar will achieve
> more than LK8000 and many equivalent commercial products.
>
> Perhaps that is why Xcsoar already runs on Android devices like this
> Dell Streak which has the best sunlight readable screen on any
> consumer grade PDA and supports ioio hardware which allows Androids
> to interface with serial ports on gliding loggers etc and can
> simultaneously read NMEA data from Flarm and a gliding computer.
>
> Ie Flarm radar and real time wind data on a screen you can read with
> your sunglasses on - available right now!
>
> Ian
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature database 6752 (20111229) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>



__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 6752 (20111229) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

[PCool]

Do you really believe so, Ian?
Have you read our web site credits, and the list of people working on?
I dont think so.
I'd like to thank all developers helping me with LK.
Their full names are on the Credits in the software, and on the web site.
Mateusz, Richard, Ulli, Bruno, Kalman, and I am omitting someone.
The next 3.0 is almost ready, after 16 beta releases and 10 months of hard
work.
We believe we did a good job also this time.
Apparently other people think so, and also commercial companies do (see LX
minimap for example, but I have nothing to do with it).

paolo


"Ian" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 10:44:09 -0700, "Dan Marotta"

The most significant difference between these two is not their
interfaces or feature list. It is the philosophy of their respective
developers. XCsoar developers encourage teamwork and input from all
interested parties. LK8000 is developed mainly by one individual who
does not encourage cooperative development to the extent that the
rights of the (XCsoar) developers who's code was used in the original
version of LK8000 were infringed for a period.

In the long run, with cooperative development XCsoar will achieve
more than LK8000 and many equivalent commercial products.

Perhaps that is why Xcsoar already runs on Android devices like this
Dell Streak which has the best sunlight readable screen on any
consumer grade PDA and supports ioio hardware which allows Androids
to interface with serial ports on gliding loggers etc and can
simultaneously read NMEA data from Flarm and a gliding computer.

Ie Flarm radar and real time wind data on a screen you can read with
your sunglasses on - available right now!

Ian

[lanebush]

On Dec 29, 2:03*pm, "PCool" > wrote:
> Do you really believe so, Ian?
> Have you read our web site credits, and the list of people working on?
> I dont think so.
> I'd like to thank all developers helping me with LK.
> Their full names are on the Credits in the software, and on the web site.
> Mateusz, Richard, Ulli, Bruno, Kalman, and I am omitting someone.
> The next 3.0 is almost ready, after 16 beta releases and 10 months of hard
> work.
> We believe we did a good job also this time.
> Apparently other people think so, and also commercial companies do (see LX
> minimap for example, but I have nothing to do with it).
>
> paolo
>
> "Ian" > ha scritto nel ternal-september.org...
> On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 10:44:09 -0700, "Dan Marotta"
>
> The most significant difference between these two is not their
> interfaces or feature list. It is the philosophy of their respective
> developers. XCsoar developers encourage teamwork and input from all
> interested parties. LK8000 is developed mainly by one individual who
> does not encourage cooperative development to the extent that the
> rights of the (XCsoar) developers who's code was used in the original
> version of LK8000 were infringed for a period.
>
> In the long run, with cooperative development XCsoar will achieve
> more than LK8000 and many equivalent commercial products.
>
> Perhaps that is why Xcsoar already runs on Android devices like this
> Dell Streak which has the best sunlight readable screen on any
> consumer grade PDA and supports ioio hardware which allows Androids
> to interface with serial ports on gliding loggers etc and can
> simultaneously read NMEA data from Flarm and a gliding computer.
>
> Ie Flarm radar and real time wind data on a screen you can read with
> your sunglasses on - available right now!
>
> Ian

Paolo,

I am a new convert you LK8000. My impression from the forum was that
it is a collaborative effort. Keep up the good work and duck when the
stones are thrown.

Lane
XF

[Richard[_9_]]

On Dec 29, 11:03*am, "PCool" > wrote:
> Do you really believe so, Ian?
> Have you read our web site credits, and the list of people working on?
> I dont think so.
> I'd like to thank all developers helping me with LK.
> Their full names are on the Credits in the software, and on the web site.
> Mateusz, Richard, Ulli, Bruno, Kalman, and I am omitting someone.
> The next 3.0 is almost ready, after 16 beta releases and 10 months of hard
> work.
> We believe we did a good job also this time.
> Apparently other people think so, and also commercial companies do (see LX
> minimap for example, but I have nothing to do with it).
>
> paolo
>
> "Ian" > ha scritto nel ternal-september.org...
> On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 10:44:09 -0700, "Dan Marotta"
>
> The most significant difference between these two is not their
> interfaces or feature list. It is the philosophy of their respective
> developers. XCsoar developers encourage teamwork and input from all
> interested parties. LK8000 is developed mainly by one individual who
> does not encourage cooperative development to the extent that the
> rights of the (XCsoar) developers who's code was used in the original
> version of LK8000 were infringed for a period.
>
> In the long run, with cooperative development XCsoar will achieve
> more than LK8000 and many equivalent commercial products.
>
> Perhaps that is why Xcsoar already runs on Android devices like this
> Dell Streak which has the best sunlight readable screen on any
> consumer grade PDA and supports ioio hardware which allows Androids
> to interface with serial ports on gliding loggers etc and can
> simultaneously read NMEA data from Flarm and a gliding computer.
>
> Ie Flarm radar and real time wind data on a screen you can read with
> your sunglasses on - available right now!
>
> Ian

Paolo,

Several customers of the Craggy Aero Ultimate Le are also running the
LK8000 software.

I looks extremly nice on a true sunlight readable display,

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 10:54:09 +0000, David Salmon wrote:

> Just like the previous thread, this is very much a matter of personal
> taste. I go back with XCSoar to when it was first brought out by a
> group in the UK, then a bit later by the Australian headed group. I
> changed to LK8000 when it came out, because it was designed for the
> better visible car navigators.
> I keep up with XCSoar developments, but so far have seen nothing to make
> me consider changing back, I much prefer the interface, and range of
> features in LK8000.
> Whilst it is fair to say that LK8000 was initially developed by one man,
> who had been a developer with XCSoar, this did result in very rapid
> development, the best committee being that consisting of one member.
> Paolo has though, gathered an international group of other developers
> and testers. He also was, and still is, very quick to react to
> suggestions and problems, sometimes in hours, I don't know when he
> sleeps!
> The gliding community owes a big debt of gratitude to both these groups,
> who have provided us with two fantastic navigation programs, and both
> are free.
> Dave

Dave's experience with these two programs, views on LK8000 vs. XCSoar and
reasons for preferring LK8000 are very similar to my own position.

I'm an XC pilot rather than a racer and use my PNA as a navigation tool,
final glide computer and wind info source. I get the rest, i.e. climb
rates and STF from my vario and ignore what the PNA has to say about
those subjects. I would use my SDI C4 for final glide and wind if I
could get NMEA sentences including those dealing with the current task
out of the PNA, but its only a cheap Binatone and doesn't do outputs.

I prefer having the maximum map space on the PNA, so prefer LK8000's
ability to overlay information over the map to XCSoar's use of infoboxes.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Andy[_1_]]

On Dec 29, 9:41*am, "Tim Mara" > wrote:
> I have several either factory refurbished or very good used HP 310's
> starting at $150.00 complete that appear to be perfectly suited for LK8000.

[lanebush]

On Dec 29, 7:40*pm, Andy > wrote:
> On Dec 29, 9:41*am, "Tim Mara" > wrote:
>
> > I have several either factory refurbished or very good used HP 310's
> > starting at $150.00 complete that appear to be perfectly suited for LK8000.

[Tom Dukerich]

On 12/29/2011 5:40 PM, Andy wrote:
> On Dec 29, 9:41 am, "Tim > wrote:
>> I have several either factory refurbished or very good used HP 310's
>> starting at $150.00 complete that appear to be perfectly suited for LK8000.
>> The HP310 has built in GPS and internal battery and also comes with a
>> suitable modifiable mount, 12VDC Cables and PC Cables.
>
> While I'm not knocking the HP310 - I use one - anyone considering
> buying one because it has an integrated GPS should be aware that the
> GPS has update characteristics that make it incapable of providing an
> accurate circling wind estimate (unless you make very shallow slow
> turns).
>
> This has been discussed at length in various forums but I was not
> aware it it when I bought mine.
>
> Andy (GY)

I have an HP310 and have found the unique USB power annoying and if the
310 is in our AZ sun too long, the battery swells up causing the back
cover to bow out and the switch opens and the unit shuts down.

Tom

[Brad[_2_]]

On Dec 29, 8:11*pm, Tom Dukerich > wrote:
> On 12/29/2011 5:40 PM, Andy wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 29, 9:41 am, "Tim > *wrote:
> >> I have several either factory refurbished or very good used HP 310's
> >> starting at $150.00 complete that appear to be perfectly suited for LK8000.
> >> The HP310 has built in GPS and internal battery and also comes with a
> >> suitable modifiable mount, 12VDC Cables and PC Cables.
>
> > While I'm not knocking the HP310 - I use one - anyone considering
> > buying one because it has an integrated GPS should be aware that the
> > GPS has update characteristics that make it incapable of providing an
> > accurate circling wind estimate (unless you make very shallow slow
> > turns).
>
> > This has been discussed at length in various forums but I was not
> > aware it it when I bought mine.
>
> > Andy (GY)
>
> I have an HP310 and have found the unique USB power annoying and if the
> 310 is in our AZ sun too long, the battery swells up causing the back
> cover to bow out and the switch opens and the unit shuts down.
>
> Tom

I'm on my 4th battery pack, and I've not even flown with the 310 yet.
might have to check into another type of PNA, like the LK8000 software
tho, been using it since it came out on my PDA.

Brad

[Ian[_2_]]

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 20:03:45 +0100, "PCool"
> wrote:
> I'd like to thank all developers helping me with LK.
> Their full names are on the Credits in the software, and on the web
site.
> Mateusz, Richard, Ulli, Bruno, Kalman, and I am omitting someone.

Competition is good, it encourages development.

When I first looked at Lk8000 the source code was not readily
available. It is good to see that you have made some progress in the
mean time.

When do you plan on supporting Android?

Ian

[PCool]

No Comment

"Ian" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 20:03:45 +0100, "PCool"
> wrote:
> I'd like to thank all developers helping me with LK.
> Their full names are on the Credits in the software, and on the web
site.
> Mateusz, Richard, Ulli, Bruno, Kalman, and I am omitting someone.

Competition is good, it encourages development.

When I first looked at Lk8000 the source code was not readily
available. It is good to see that you have made some progress in the
mean time.

When do you plan on supporting Android?

Ian

[[email protected]]

There was a lot of waterr running down the rriver.
Meanwhile both have evolved a lot and versions for Android and ebook-readers are out with LK8000 v6 releaes starting in a couple of days.

Realy exciting to see what's in


Am Mittwoch, 28. Dezember 2011 18:44:09 UTC+1 schrieb Dan Marotta:
> I've had a couple of flights using XCSoar on a Mio but the season
> essentially over and I don't have much of an opinion yet. I've since
> impressed with how XCSoar works!
>
> Now I'm looking at LK8000 and like the look of the displays so I think I'll
> download, install, and play with it just to see how it works.

[Dan Marotta]

Wow! That was a blast from the past...

I've long since decided on XCSoar running on a Dell Streak 5 and am very
happy with it. I have two Streaks mounted in my Stemme since my wife
likes the features as well, and I have a spare in the hangar. I have a
couple of friends who swear by LK8000 and others who like XCSoar.
Choose your favorite.

Dan

On 8/11/2016 5:11 AM, wrote:
> There was a lot of waterr running down the rriver.
> Meanwhile both have evolved a lot and versions for Android and ebook-readers are out with LK8000 v6 releaes starting in a couple of days.
>
> Realy exciting to see what's in
>
>
> Am Mittwoch, 28. Dezember 2011 18:44:09 UTC+1 schrieb Dan Marotta:
>> I've had a couple of flights using XCSoar on a Mio but the season
>> essentially over and I don't have much of an opinion yet. I've since
>> impressed with how XCSoar works!
>>
>> Now I'm looking at LK8000 and like the look of the displays so I think I'll
>> download, install, and play with it just to see how it works.

--
Dan, 5J