First Visit to Minden questions

[akiley]

Hi,

I'm a flat land glider pilot with 70 glider hours of which 35 are in a
standard Cirrus. I'm doing a week trip to Minden this winter as a
familiarization and glider checkout adventure. SoaringNV.

There is almost endless info available on the web, and I'll get help
from an instructor, but here are a few random questions.

Unless there is wave, I'm thinking of just getting high tows maybe 6k
AGL. This will put me near the Pine Nut range, or a little above the
big ridge to the west. If there is no lift I won't be able to wander
much.

1. At this altitude, with flight durations of a half hour, should I be
contacting NorCal? Or is that something that one does when the flight
is higher, longer duration, or closer to Reno?

2. How much wind does it take against these ridges to hold altitude
using ridge lift?

3. Off topic, but I might drive from Minden to visit Williams Soaring
Center. I was raised in Vermont driving to ski areas, but the
Sierra's seem pretty intense. Any recommended route? Any way to
check driving conditions and to know if my rental "economy" car will
suffice?

4. Any other advice welcome.

.... Aaron

[[email protected]]

>
> 3. Off topic, but I might drive from Minden to visit Williams Soaring
> Center. *I was raised in Vermont driving to ski areas, but the
> Sierra's seem pretty intense. *Any recommended route? *Any way to
> check driving conditions and to know if my rental "economy" car will
> suffice?
>
> 4. Any other advice welcome.
>
> ... Aaron

Always check road conditions over the Sierras, 80 is a nice, wide
super highway over the Sierras. If there is snow closures take 70
which is lower, brings you out at Oroville, just East of Williams.

[guy]

Hi Aaron,

SoaringNV will answer all your questions about flying in the area.
Unless you are flying above 18,000 feet in a wave window, you will not
need to interact with NorCal.

I live in Sacramento and have been driving over the Sierra to fly in
the winter for twenty years. My advice, rent a four wheel drive
vehicle. Conditions change rapidly in the mountains. The Sierra are
not the little mole hills that you have on the east coast. Highways
50 and 80 are the major trans-sierra routes. With four wheel drive I
have never been blocked from crossing the mountains, even in the
middle of mild snow storms.

Enjoy.

Guy

[jcarlyle]

Aaron,

You probably know this, but on the off chance you don't understand why
the previous two posters were stressing driving in snow in the Sierras
to someone raised in ski country back East, google the Donner Party.

-John

On Dec 30, 9:30 am, akiley > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm a flat land glider pilot with 70 glider hours of which 35 are in a
> standard Cirrus. I'm doing a week trip to Minden this winter as a
> familiarization and glider checkout adventure. SoaringNV.
>
[.. snip ..]
>
> 3. Off topic, but I might drive from Minden to visit Williams Soaring
> Center. I was raised in Vermont driving to ski areas, but the
> Sierra's seem pretty intense. Any recommended route? Any way to
> check driving conditions and to know if my rental "economy" car will
> suffice?
>
> 4. Any other advice welcome.
>
> ... Aaron

[Rick Walters[_2_]]

On Dec 30, 6:30*am, akiley > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm a flat land glider pilot with 70 glider hours of which 35 are in a
> standard Cirrus. *I'm doing a week trip to Minden this winter as a
> familiarization and glider checkout adventure. *SoaringNV.
>
> There is almost endless info available on the web, and I'll get help
> from an instructor, but here are a few random questions.
>
> Unless there is wave, I'm thinking of just getting high tows maybe 6k
> AGL. *This will put me near the Pine Nut range, or a little above the
> big ridge to the west. *If there is no lift I won't be able to wander
> much.
>
> 1. At this altitude, with flight durations of a half hour, should I be
> contacting NorCal? *Or is that something that one does when the flight
> is higher, longer duration, or closer to Reno?
>
> 2. How much wind does it take against these ridges to hold altitude
> using ridge lift?
>
> 3. Off topic, but I might drive from Minden to visit Williams Soaring
> Center. *I was raised in Vermont driving to ski areas, but the
> Sierra's seem pretty intense. *Any recommended route? *Any way to
> check driving conditions and to know if my rental "economy" car will
> suffice?
>
> 4. Any other advice welcome.
>
> ... Aaron

Aaron

Soaring NV will explain the jet routes into Reno. No contact is
required local to Minden, but if you get above 12,000' you should
monitor their freq. Reno tower is friendly and very familiar with our
ops. Ridge soaring takes 10 knots of wind. Occasionally an east wind
sets up allowing an easy run up and down the Carson Range with a view
of Lake Tahoe. A strong west wind will allow soaring above the
Heavenly Ski area. The Pinenut mountains are more difficult to ridge
soar and require thermals to jump the gaps. You can hold on Mt Siegel
(Pinenuts) all day with a light west wind.

Rent a little 4x4 and avoid the chain gang.

Rick Walters

[John Friend]

At 15:59 30 December 2011, guy wrote:
>Hi Aaron,
>
>SoaringNV will answer all your questions about flying in the area.
>Unless you are flying above 18,000 feet in a wave window, you will not
>need to interact with NorCal.
>
>I live in Sacramento and have been driving over the Sierra to fly in
>the winter for twenty years. My advice, rent a four wheel drive
>vehicle. Conditions change rapidly in the mountains. The Sierra are
>not the little mole hills that you have on the east coast. Highways
>50 and 80 are the major trans-sierra routes. With four wheel drive I
>have never been blocked from crossing the mountains, even in the
>middle of mild snow storms.
>
>Enjoy.
>
>Guy
>arron,
if your used to flat lands,and go to minden there is an alitude
difference ,so be prepared to have oxygen on be fore take off,they surply
encomomisers,so oxygen lasts ok,if in the famous minden wave you will
climb quicker than uk wave at least,and over 10k before you know!,i
certainly beneifited from early oxygen,enjoy minden,best gliding holiday
ever,
john [uk]

[akiley]

On Dec 30, 11:56*am, Rick Walters > wrote:
> On Dec 30, 6:30*am, akiley > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I'm a flat land glider pilot with 70 glider hours of which 35 are in a
> > standard Cirrus. *I'm doing a week trip to Minden this winter as a
> > familiarization and glider checkout adventure. *SoaringNV.
>
> > There is almost endless info available on the web, and I'll get help
> > from an instructor, but here are a few random questions.
>
> > Unless there is wave, I'm thinking of just getting high tows maybe 6k
> > AGL. *This will put me near the Pine Nut range, or a little above the
> > big ridge to the west. *If there is no lift I won't be able to wander
> > much.
>
> > 1. At this altitude, with flight durations of a half hour, should I be
> > contacting NorCal? *Or is that something that one does when the flight
> > is higher, longer duration, or closer to Reno?
>
> > 2. How much wind does it take against these ridges to hold altitude
> > using ridge lift?
>
> > 3. Off topic, but I might drive from Minden to visit Williams Soaring
> > Center. *I was raised in Vermont driving to ski areas, but the
> > Sierra's seem pretty intense. *Any recommended route? *Any way to
> > check driving conditions and to know if my rental "economy" car will
> > suffice?
>
> > 4. Any other advice welcome.
>
> > ... Aaron
>
> Aaron
>
> Soaring NV will explain the jet routes into Reno. No contact is
> required local to Minden, but if you get above 12,000' you should
> monitor their freq. Reno tower is friendly and very familiar with our
> ops. Ridge soaring takes 10 knots of wind. Occasionally an east wind
> sets up allowing an easy run up and down the Carson Range with a view
> of Lake Tahoe. A strong west wind will allow soaring above the
> Heavenly Ski area. The Pinenut mountains are more difficult to ridge
> soar and require thermals to jump the gaps. You can hold on Mt Siegel
> (Pinenuts) all day with a light west wind.
>
> Rent a little 4x4 and avoid the chain gang.
>
> Rick Walters

Thanks for the advice Rick,

The Pine Nut ridge also seems like it might not yield much altitude to
get back to Minden, especially if you're working a headwind and not
much above the ridge.

Is there any hope of a weak thermal or two in January? ... akiley

[akiley]

On Dec 30, 11:49*am, jcarlyle > wrote:
> Aaron,
>
> You probably know this, but on the off chance you don't understand why
> the previous two posters were stressing driving in snow in the Sierras
> to someone raised in ski country back East, google the Donner Party.
>
> -John
>
> On Dec 30, 9:30 am, akiley > wrote:
>
> > Hi,
>
> > I'm a flat land glider pilot with 70 glider hours of which 35 are in a
> > standard Cirrus. *I'm doing a week trip to Minden this winter as a
> > familiarization and glider checkout adventure. *SoaringNV.
>
> [.. snip ..]
>
> > 3. Off topic, but I might drive from Minden to visit Williams Soaring
> > Center. *I was raised in Vermont driving to ski areas, but the
> > Sierra's seem pretty intense. *Any recommended route? *Any way to
> > check driving conditions and to know if my rental "economy" car will
> > suffice?
>
> > 4. Any other advice welcome.
>
> > ... Aaron

Yes, thanks for the tip. I drove with family from the bay area to
Truckee several years back. I still have a bag of chains in the
cellar we had to purchase. Probably a good thing to take with
me. ... Aaron

[jcarlyle]

On Dec 30, 1:49 pm, akiley > wrote:
> Yes, thanks for the tip. I drove with family from the bay area to
> Truckee several years back. I still have a bag of chains in the
> cellar we had to purchase. Probably a good thing to take with
> me. ... Aaron

You're welcome, Aaron. I was going to let Minden locals give you
advice, but maybe I can be of some help since I'm another flatland
pilot (PHL area) who went to Minden last March for 10 days (read - I
don't know nothin' much about mountain flying).

The advice above to get on oxygen before takeoff is very wise -
walking around at 4,700 feet when you're used to 200 feet is
"interesting", flying solo at 8 to 9,000 feet in very strong
turbulence (especially on tow) is even more so. Don't do it with a
built in handicap!

As far as thermals in winter at Minden, I don't know the right answer
to that. Certainly I was thermalling in something at 8,000 feet that
felt like small, turbulent thermals, but since they didn't move with
the wind I guess they were rotor related. One technique I used to
climb in them was to make a small circle with a steep downwind bank
and a shallow upwind bank. Another was to make a small figure 8
perpendicular to the wind and centered on the lift, again with steep
downwind banks and shallow upwind banks. This all occurred in the
vicinity of Minden on a wave day.

My main focus was learning how to get into the wave, and using it for
doing a Diamond climb. After that, I was taught the rudiments of using
the wave for doing XC, which I put into practice on a memorable solo
flight up and down the Carson Range and out to the Pine Nuts. My visit
was a lot of fun, and yours will be too, as long as you listen very
carefully to the instructors and heed all of their warnings. It's way
different than flat land flying.

One thing you probably know about, but won't fully appreciate until
you've been there, is the cold. After a climb to 27,000 feet I
couldn't feel my feet. Pretty much the same thing happened after my 3
hour XC flight, although I never went above 15,000 feet. I had on silk
socks, 2 pairs of wool socks, and moon boots made of thick closed cell
foam. Bring lots and lots of warm stuff, but you will definitely be
very cold!

-John

[akiley]

> One thing you probably know about, but won't fully appreciate until
> you've been there, is the cold. After a climb to 27,000 feet I
> couldn't feel my feet. Pretty much the same thing happened after my 3
> hour XC flight, although I never went above 15,000 feet. I had on silk
> socks, 2 pairs of wool socks, and moon boots made of thick closed cell
> foam. Bring lots and lots of warm stuff, but you will definitely be
> very cold!
>
> -John

Thanks again. All helpful. I'm in fairly good shape and don't smoke,
but 59 years old living at 800 feet I will probably want O2 in my
hotel room.

It would be great if I luck out and get a wave day, or even enough
ridge lift to stay up long enough to freeze.

I sometimes use those disposable packets that you put in your boots.
They keep some of your toes warm for a while. I also hear that fresh
socks right before you launch helps a lot.

SSA magazine just came out with a great article on wave flying
Minden. Aaron

[Gary Ittner[_2_]]

"jcarlyle" > wrote in message
...
> Aaron,
>
> You probably know this, but on the off chance you don't understand why
> the previous two posters were stressing driving in snow in the Sierras
> to someone raised in ski country back East, google the Donner Party.

John, I abhor the implication that California is a haven for cannibalism. It
is well known that we now have the problem relatively under control.

P7 unit

[jcarlyle]

On Dec 30, 5:34 pm, "Gary Ittner" > wrote:
> "jcarlyle" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Aaron,
>
> > You probably know this, but on the off chance you don't understand why
> > the previous two posters were stressing driving in snow in the Sierras
> > to someone raised in ski country back East, google the Donner Party.
>
> John, I abhor the implication that California is a haven for cannibalism. It
> is well known that we now have the problem relatively under control.
>
> P7 unit

Gary,

As a native San Franciscan (who moved some 62 years ago), I'm glad to
learn that the state has progressed in the last 164 years. Seriously,
I only wanted to point out that snow in the Sierras is not a triffling
matter and needs to be treated with respect.

-John

[BobW]

On 12/30/2011 3:34 PM, Gary Ittner wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
>> Aaron,
>>
>> You probably know this, but on the off chance you don't understand why
>> the previous two posters were stressing driving in snow in the Sierras
>> to someone raised in ski country back East, google the Donner Party.
>
> John, I abhor the implication that California is a haven for cannibalism. It
> is well known that we now have the problem relatively under control.
>
> P7 unit

California has company.

Colorado has its own fine tradition of 19th century cannibalism, although not
without diversionary controversy: Alfred G. "Alferd" Packer.

With fine undergraduate sensibilities, CU's campus cafeteria has long been
named the "Alferd G. Packer Memorial Grill". (Motto: "Have a friend for
lunch!") Minor research may prove illuminatory...

[S. Murry]

On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 17:14:04 -0600, jcarlyle > wrote:


>
>
> Gary,
>
> As a native San Franciscan (who moved some 62 years ago), I'm glad to
> learn that the state has progressed in the last 164 years. Seriously,
> I only wanted to point out that snow in the Sierras is not a triffling
> matter and needs to be treated with respect.
>
> -John


Ohh, I assumed that you meant that you should always bring friends along
when driving to Minden in the winter. Thanks for the clarification.

--Stefan

[akiley]

Was it Barbara Streisand that sang... "People who eat people, are the
luckiest people in the world."

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 16:07:50 -0800, akiley wrote:

> Was it Barbara Streisand that sang... "People who eat people, are the
> luckiest people in the world."

My favourite song about that subject is "The Reluctant Cannibal" by
Michael Flanders and Donald Swann.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[akiley]

On Dec 30, 7:16*pm, Martin Gregorie >
wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 16:07:50 -0800, akiley wrote:
> > Was it Barbara Streisand that sang... "People who eat people, are the
> > luckiest people in the world."
>
> My favourite song about that subject is "The Reluctant Cannibal" by
> Michael Flanders and Donald Swann.
>
> --
> martin@ * | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org * * * |

Unbelievable, never heard that but it was available on YouTube. Now I
know where Derek and Clive came from, one of my favorites.

....Aaron

[Martin Gregorie[_5_]]

On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 16:33:47 -0800, akiley wrote:

> On Dec 30, 7:16Â*pm, Martin Gregorie >
> wrote:
>> My favourite song about that subject is "The Reluctant Cannibal" by
>> Michael Flanders and Donald Swann.
>>
> Unbelievable, never heard that but it was available on YouTube. Now I
> know where Derek and Clive came from, one of my favorites.
>
Derek & Clyde were distinctly rough trade compared with Flanders & Swann.
They were (imitating) drunk proles where F&S were clever song writers and
performers. Think PDQ Bach, Victor Borge and Allan Sherman for
equivalents on your side of the Pond.

Flanders & Swann were famous in the late 50s/early 60s. Best known song,
which you may know, was "Hippopotamus" (with the "Mud, mud, glorious mud"
chorus). If you want more, look for the "At The Drop of a Hat" album.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[jcarlyle]

On Dec 30, 6:31 pm, "S. Murry" > wrote:
> Ohh, I assumed that you meant that you should always bring friends along
> when driving to Minden in the winter. Thanks for the clarification.
>
> --Stefan

Thanks for the excellent example of why assuming is unwise.
-John

[S. Murry]

On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 20:30:37 -0600, jcarlyle > wrote:

> On Dec 30, 6:31 pm, "S. Murry" > wrote:
>> Ohh, I assumed that you meant that you should always bring friends along
>> when driving to Minden in the winter. Thanks for the clarification.
>>
>> --Stefan
>
> Thanks for the excellent example of why assuming is unwise.
> -John
>

Just to be on the safe side, I think I'll bring friends and a 4x4 if I
ever go to Minden...that way I'll be covered in any eventuality.

Happy New Year!

--
Stefan Murry

[Tony[_5_]]

On Dec 30, 9:20*pm, "S. Murry" > wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 20:30:37 -0600, jcarlyle > wrote:
> > On Dec 30, 6:31 pm, "S. Murry" > wrote:
> >> Ohh, I assumed that you meant that you should always bring friends along
> >> when driving to Minden in the winter. *Thanks for the clarification.
>
> >> --Stefan
>
> > Thanks for the excellent example of why assuming is unwise.
> > -John
>
> Just to be on the safe side, I think I'll bring friends and a 4x4 if I
> ever go to Minden...that way I'll be covered in any eventuality.
>
> Happy New Year!
>
> --
> Stefan Murry

Stefan,

remind me NOT to go on a Minden trip with you, don't want to be on
that particular "friends list" :D