GPS vs. map

[DeltaDeltaDelta]

Do you people with GPS units (either panel mounted or portable) use only
them when you fly, or do you plan the same route on a map as well and plot
your position in flight, for backup in case the unit looses pickup? I've
recently seen the SR-22 panel and some Lancair models and it got me
wondering whether aside from all these hi-tech gadgets people still use the
good old roadmap.

Triple Delta

[ArtP]

On Sun, 27 Jul 2003 19:29:52 +0200, "DeltaDeltaDelta"
> wrote:

When I fly, I only use the charts (Airchart book) as a lap
board to hold my sticky notes. The only reason I even bother is incase
ATC changes my clearance. I get obstacle data from my MFD, my backup
Airmap, and it will soon be available in my GNS430.

[JerryK]

I keep a section, Wac, or IFR enroute chart on my lap as I fly along. I
also tune VOR's and estimate time and distance between cities to ensure I am staying
awake and aware.

jerry

[Thomas Pappano]

"DeltaDeltaDelta" > wrote in message
...
> Do you people with GPS units (either panel mounted or portable) use only
> them when you fly, or do you plan the same route on a map as well and plot
> your position in flight, for backup in case the unit looses pickup? I've
> recently seen the SR-22 panel and some Lancair models and it got me
> wondering whether aside from all these hi-tech gadgets people still use
the
> good old roadmap.
>
> Triple Delta
>
>
I always use charts. I usually fly IFR and use low alt enroute charts. A
trip
usually takes 1 to 3 charts that I prefold into 11x11 squares with my route
showing, and clip them together in order of use in a neat package that lays
on my lap. The portable GPS sits on top of them, serving also as a
paperweight.
I usually also have sectionals in the flight bag.

Tom Pappano, PP-ASEL-IA

[Jeff]

I plan my flight on my handheld GPS, then lay it out on a sectional, while
flying, I track myself on the map and make sure I am whereI think I am. The map
has more detail then the handheld gps I use (garmin 295), so if I have a
problem I know where I am and whats under me.
I do this when flying over clouds and cant see the ground, I look at the map
to see whats under the layer.

DeltaDeltaDelta wrote:

> Do you people with GPS units (either panel mounted or portable) use only
> them when you fly, or do you plan the same route on a map as well and plot
> your position in flight, for backup in case the unit looses pickup? I've
> recently seen the SR-22 panel and some Lancair models and it got me
> wondering whether aside from all these hi-tech gadgets people still use the
> good old roadmap.
>
> Triple Delta

[Jeff]

I also tune VOR's and compare them to my GPS, but I think thats just to keep me busy, I
let the auto pilot fly the plane most of the time so I have to have other things to do
to keep my mind occupied :)



JerryK wrote:

> I keep a section, Wac, or IFR enroute chart on my lap as I fly along. I
> also tune VOR's and estimate time and distance between cities to ensure I am staying
> awake and aware.
>
> jerry

[Teacherjh]

I plan on charts, and use them in the plane. I also hand fly. GPS is nice,
but I like having the paper charts.

Jose

(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

[Cub Driver]

>Do you people with GPS units (either panel mounted or portable) use only
>them when you fly, or do you plan the same route on a map as well and plot
>your position in flight, for backup in case the unit looses pickup? I've

I draw the route on the chart. Given the endurance of the Cub (12
gallons, 4.2 GPH) I'm simply not traveling far enough to use
checkpoints. I always know where I am on the chart, and I have a
decision point of one hour, with due allowance for the wind. The plane
has no Hobbs meter, and rather than using the tach as most people do,
I write the engine-on time on the back of an obsolete business card,
stuck up under the top clip of the kneeboard. That's the only
paperwork I do.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at http://www.danford.net/index.htm
Vietnam | Flying Tigers | Pacific War | Brewster Buffalo | Piper Cub

[Paul]

A GPS can fail---been there done that---. I have a map open to my route and
cross check often enough that I know where to look on the map if my GPS goes
T.U.

Cheers:

Paul
NC2273H
"

[Peter R.]

Paul ) wrote:

> A GPS can fail---been there done that---. I have a map open to my route and
> cross check often enough that I know where to look on the map if my GPS goes
> T.U.

How GPS's fail may be a logical question by those who read your comments.
Several weeks ago my panel mounted, IFR-certified GPS temporarily failed
due to my own bone-headed mistake.

At 9,500ft I opened a very soft plastic bottle of water without allowing it
to slowly equalize first. The damn thing sprayed water all over my
avionics console, temporarily shorting out the MSG button on the GPS.
Every time I attempted to place the unit in the Flight Plan chapter, it
went right back to the message display.

Fortunately we had been following our flight's progress on our IFR low-
altitude charts that were opened in our laps so switching to VOR navigation
was seamless.

--
Peter

[Ronald Gardner]

Even if VFR a map is a must, never trust any electronic gadget 100%. Even with
redundant systems there is a potential loss of electrical power.

DeltaDeltaDelta wrote:

> Do you people with GPS units (either panel mounted or portable) use only
> them when you fly, or do you plan the same route on a map as well and plot
> your position in flight, for backup in case the unit looses pickup? I've
> recently seen the SR-22 panel and some Lancair models and it got me
> wondering whether aside from all these hi-tech gadgets people still use the
> good old roadmap.
>
> Triple Delta

[altekocker]

Amen. I had an alternator failure a couple of years back and the first of
the electronics to bug out was the GPS. I was very happy to have all the
usual pilotage tools in my lap and properly marked up. I completed the
flight with no functioning radios.

Seth
Comanche N8100R

"Sydney Hoeltzli" > wrote in message
...
> DeltaDeltaDelta wrote:
> > Do you people with GPS units (either panel mounted or portable) use only
> > them when you fly, or do you plan the same route on a map as well and
plot
> > your position in flight, for backup in case the unit looses pickup?
>
> It's not just "for backup in case the unit loses pickup".
>
> Today, the vast majority of GPS units in use lack a vital ingredient
> for proper flight planning:
>
> **TERRAIN INFORMATION**
>
> Certain accidents used to be described as having "the Mark of Loran
> Guided Death"
>
> These are accidents where a plane, on the exact centerline of a
> direct route from "here" to "there", flew into terrain or obstructions
> in crappy wx.
>
> Often terrain or obstructions which they could have avoided, had
> they only perused a chart and observed that detouring 3 miles east
> would allow them to follow a road through a valley.
>
> The phrase could be updated to "the Mark of GPS-Guided Death".
>
> My point is:
> *safe flight is a 4 dimensional problem
> *most GPS units only address 3 of these 4 dimensions
> *unless you're flying with a GPS/Moving map system which addresses
> all 4, better keep your charts and know where you are and what
> the terrain along your route looks like
> *even if you are, if the power fails or signal is lost, what then?
>
> Sydney (1 panel-mount GPS, 1 handheld GPS, 2 full sets of charts with
> a courseline on at least 1 of them)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Sydney Hoeltzli]

Peter R. wrote:

> At 9,500ft I opened a very soft plastic bottle of water without allowing it
> to slowly equalize first. The damn thing sprayed water all over my
> avionics console, temporarily shorting out the MSG button on the GPS.
> Every time I attempted to place the unit in the Flight Plan chapter, it
> went right back to the message display.

LOL! Haven't done that one, but I well remember the time I thought
those little boxes of juice would be just the thing for in-flight
toddler snacks.

Once.

Cheers,
Sydney