Re: Flying with pregnant wife

[Chris Kennedy]

Captain Wubba wrote:

[snip]

> 1. What is the maximum altitude that would be 'safe' for for an
> expectant mother to fly at?

Our goal was to remain below 10K MSL, and in practice never strayed much
above 9K. About the only input we got from the medical community was
that fetal and maternal hemoglobin has a higher affinity for O2 than
that of adults, so as long as mom wasn't hypoxic the kid was likely to
be fine. We did tend to check the little CO warning tabs more often,
though...

> 2. Does this vary with the stage of pregnancy?

Jen flew solo until early in her fifth month, at which point she was
cautioned to stop solo flight because some women start to have episodes
of lightheadedness about that time (she never did). She flew dual until
sometime in her sixth month, when she couldn't stuff her 5'2" frame into
the airplane or get full travel on the yoke.

> 3. Is there a time when we should simply stop flying?

We were never told of a medical reason, but when it got to the point
where it took on the order of minutes for her to get in and settled it
was pretty clear that we'd have emergency egress issues and she quit flying.

> 4. Are there any resources that anyone know of concerning flying with
> small children (i.e. headsets, inner-ear issues, etc.?

A good pediatrician ;) Seriously, the only issue we've had with Duncan
is that he doesn't like wearing his headset (or sunglasses, for that
matter). The tip from our pediatrician on ears was to stuff a tit in
his mouth, but we never had to figure out how to do that in flight. The
pediatrician has been nothing but encouraging about Duncan flying in
light, unpressurized airplanes -- the strongest cautionary note he gave
us was to make sure he was wearing sunscreen.

Cheers,
Chris.
--
Chris Kennedy

http://www.mainecoon.com
PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97

[Big John]

Cap

One bit of info. Commercial birds are pressurized to between 5K and
10K (forget the standard figure but someone will drop it in a reply).
If you don't fly any higher in your GA than the commercial bird
pressurization it shouldn't be a problem.

I'd go to her Doc and get his opinion of what is acceptable during
preg.

Also baby ear Doc about flying with infant and possible ear blockage
(might want to wake up prior to descent so baby will clear any minor
blockage by crying if it hurts , etc) Playing with baby until it
laughs could help clear any minor blockage.

There's lots of professional advice available, but I'd look twice
(measure twice and cut once) at all the advice you will get here on
r.a.p. (some will be good and some ???)

Congrats on the new one coming into the family. Maybe a new pilot
coming on board?

..
Big John


On 7 Aug 2003 05:59:41 -0700, (Captain Wubba)
wrote:

>Hello. I posted this in another group but got no response. I was
>wondering if anyone here might be able to point me in the right
>direction.
>
>My wife is pregnant with our first child. She is currently 12
>weeks into an apparently uncomplicated pregnancy. She's in good
>health, and has no specific problems that we know of. I have heard
>conflicting advice about flying in small, unpressurized planes while
>pregnant. She's very
>comfortable flying, and we like to travel, and would like to travel
>via general aviation both before and (after a suitable age) after
>delivery. The aircraft we fly in is not pressurized (It's either a 206
>or a Beech Musketeer). I had a few questions:
>
>1. What is the maximum altitude that would be 'safe' for for an
>expectant mother to fly at?
>
>2. Does this vary with the stage of pregnancy?
>
>3. Is there a time when we should simply stop flying?
>
>4. Are there any resources that anyone know of concernign flying with
>small children (i.e. headsets, inner-ear issues, etc.?
>
>Thanks in advance for any help :)
>
>Cheers,
>
>Cap

[Big John]

Cap

One other thing I forgot.

Wife will start using bathroom more often. You will have to plan
shorter legs to let her get out and exercise and do her thing.

May not be important to you, but will be very important to her and
could kill her love for flying GA.

We have four daughters and driving cross country we could hardly pass
a gas station without stopping for teh wife or one of them <G> (Family
joke)

Sydney may be able to input some advice for you from the womans side?

Big John

On 7 Aug 2003 05:59:41 -0700, (Captain Wubba)
wrote:

>Hello. I posted this in another group but got no response. I was
>wondering if anyone here might be able to point me in the right
>direction.
>
>My wife is pregnant with our first child. She is currently 12
>weeks into an apparently uncomplicated pregnancy. She's in good
>health, and has no specific problems that we know of. I have heard
>conflicting advice about flying in small, unpressurized planes while
>pregnant. She's very
>comfortable flying, and we like to travel, and would like to travel
>via general aviation both before and (after a suitable age) after
>delivery. The aircraft we fly in is not pressurized (It's either a 206
>or a Beech Musketeer). I had a few questions:
>
>1. What is the maximum altitude that would be 'safe' for for an
>expectant mother to fly at?
>
>2. Does this vary with the stage of pregnancy?
>
>3. Is there a time when we should simply stop flying?
>
>4. Are there any resources that anyone know of concernign flying with
>small children (i.e. headsets, inner-ear issues, etc.?
>
>Thanks in advance for any help :)
>
>Cheers,
>
>Cap

[JerryK]

I believe the requirement for Commercial A/c is a 8,000 cabin at service
ceiling, but most planes can beat this figure.

"Big John" > wrote in message
...
> Cap
>
> One bit of info. Commercial birds are pressurized to between 5K and
> 10K (forget the standard figure but someone will drop it in a reply).
> If you don't fly any higher in your GA than the commercial bird
> pressurization it shouldn't be a problem.
>

[Craig]

(Captain Wubba) wrote in message >...
> Hello. I posted this in another group but got no response. I was
> wondering if anyone here might be able to point me in the right
> direction.


Best thing to do is check with her OB/Gyn and see what he says, as
well as quizzing your AME. Only biggie would be seatbelt adjustments
as things progress. As to picking flight levels, I would stay pretty
low unless you have an O2 system, and definately get a good CO
detector for the cockpit. Realize that the ones that the hardware
stores sell are not that accurate. We have some at work that recently
indicated a CO level of 140 while the high dollar sniffer that the
tech just had calibrated a few minutes before showed 20. It's nice to
be warned early, but giving you bad numbers could cause a temporary
panic.

My wife had some difficulty on commercial flights when she was
preggers due to cabin altitude. I didn't have any of my aircraft
flying at the time to make a comparison, so your wife's experience may
vary.

[Peter Gottlieb]

I would ask your wife's doctor about altitude related issues. If you are
concerned you can always give her supplemental oxygen over say 5000 feet or
base it on an oxygen monitor.


"Captain Wubba" > wrote in message
om...
> Hello. I posted this in another group but got no response. I was
> wondering if anyone here might be able to point me in the right
> direction.
>
> My wife is pregnant with our first child. She is currently 12
> weeks into an apparently uncomplicated pregnancy. She's in good
> health, and has no specific problems that we know of. I have heard
> conflicting advice about flying in small, unpressurized planes while
> pregnant. She's very
> comfortable flying, and we like to travel, and would like to travel
> via general aviation both before and (after a suitable age) after
> delivery. The aircraft we fly in is not pressurized (It's either a 206
> or a Beech Musketeer). I had a few questions:
>
> 1. What is the maximum altitude that would be 'safe' for for an
> expectant mother to fly at?
>
> 2. Does this vary with the stage of pregnancy?
>
> 3. Is there a time when we should simply stop flying?
>
> 4. Are there any resources that anyone know of concernign flying with
> small children (i.e. headsets, inner-ear issues, etc.?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Cap

[Jake Brodsky]

On 7 Aug 2003 05:59:41 -0700, (Captain Wubba)
wrote:

In general, I'm not aware of any issues regarding pregnancy, altitude,
and flying, other than physical comfort. If your wife wishes to act
as PIC, she should be aware that as far as the FAA is concerned,
pregnancy is not sufficient reason for grounding unless her mobility
(or bladder capacity) is a concern.

FYI, my wife and I fly while she was pregnant, we took car trips with
our daughter when she was nine months old and while my wife was
pregnant with our son, right over the continental divide at 12000+
MSL. We even went for a short hike at that altitude. Other than
getting winded as one would expect, we had no other problems.

We flew with my daughter here and there until she was about 13 months
old. After that, my wife's mobility was getting limited by pregnancy
again, and the logistics of managing a baby on an airfield by one's
self are not nearly easy as it might first seem.

>4. Are there any resources that anyone know of concernign flying with
>small children (i.e. headsets, inner-ear issues, etc.?

Hearing protection is probably the biggest concern. This can be taken
care of by cutting down foam ear plugs to put in their ears and then
using a pair of ear muffs or a cap to hold them in place.

My daughter has flown with me both with and without hearing
protection. Our airplane, a Cardinal FG, isn't particularly noisy and
the back seat is far enough away from the engine and propeller that
noise isn't overwhelming. If your airplane is noisy, you might
consider replacing the windshield with a thicker plexiglass. Most
aircraft have some sort of STC for this sort of thing. A lot of cabin
noise comes from the pulses of air off the propeller slapping against
the windshield.

Since my children were so close in age, flying with the whole family
became a logistical nightmare when my son was born only sixteen months
later. There is just too much stuff to pack. So I curtailed most of
their flying activities until now. Today, at ages 3 and 4, they are
old enough to manage on the airfield without the hassle of taking
along heavy, well provisioned diaper bags, they're potty trained to
where they let me know with enough advance warning, and they're strong
enough to walk 1/4 mile across a parking ramp without complaint or
asking me to carry them.

Let me mention this one bit of caution for later: As with a car, KIDS
BELONG IN THE BACK SEAT. Do not put them in the co-pilot's seat until
you can be SURE they won't do something impulsive or stupid, such as
bring their feet up to push the flight controls. ASRS has reports on
this.

Packing a family with a single child in an airplane is busy work.
Packing two toddlers in to an aircraft involves lots of planning and
care, at least until they reach an age where they can help care for
themselves. I recommend that the adults outnumber the children in
this application.

I wish you and your wife a smooth, uncomplicated pregnancy and a
healthy baby. The fun is just beginning.


Jake Brodsky,
PP ASEL IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ FME
Amateur Radio Station AB3A

[Rick Durden]

Captain,

Lots and lots of womoen pilots fly well into pregnancy with no ill
effects. My aunt flew when pregnant with my cousin back in 1940 until
she couldn't get the stick back to flare. He came out of it okay,
other than he developed an overwhelming compulsion to learn to fly
when he was 16 (and did so).

Doctors will tell you there is no problem with oxygen and so forth.
Only reason a lot of ob/gyns say no flying in the last month is they
don't want their patient traveling and potentially starting labor a
long way from home.

For flying with babies and kids, got to AVweb (www.avweb.com), click
on columns, click on The Pilot's Loungs Index and scroll down to the
very first column. Quite a bit of stuff in it that may be of value.

Best single for haulding babies and stuff is the Cardinal. It has the
biggest cabin of all four-place, two huge doors, a flat floor and it's
impossible to load it out of c.g. You can put one person in front and
one in the back with the child seat and not be out of c.g. aft. For
the first several months it's a good idea to have an adult in the back
with the baby just to be sure of things. You will also find you take
an incredible amount of "stuff" with you when you have a baby, the
Cardinal will carry it.

Noise protection for the baby is absolutely essential. During
pregnancy there is plenty of protection, after birth you have to take
aggressive action to protect the baby's hearing as general aviation
airplanes are just plain loud and it WILL cause hearing loss.

Babies usually handle pressure changes well if they have something to
suck on when in a descent. Nevertheless, make descents as gentle as
you can at first and watch the baby for discomfort. Climbing doesn't
bother them. Never, ever, ever take the baby flying if she has a cold
or sore throat or anything that you feel adversely affects her ears.
I made one trip at 500 feet to avoid a pressure change when our
daughter was an infant and the descent was at 100 fpm to the runway.

Congratulations on the little one.

All the best,
Rick

(Captain Wubba) wrote in message >...
> Hello. I posted this in another group but got no response. I was
> wondering if anyone here might be able to point me in the right
> direction.
>
> My wife is pregnant with our first child. She is currently 12
> weeks into an apparently uncomplicated pregnancy. She's in good
> health, and has no specific problems that we know of. I have heard
> conflicting advice about flying in small, unpressurized planes while
> pregnant. She's very
> comfortable flying, and we like to travel, and would like to travel
> via general aviation both before and (after a suitable age) after
> delivery. The aircraft we fly in is not pressurized (It's either a 206
> or a Beech Musketeer). I had a few questions:
>
> 1. What is the maximum altitude that would be 'safe' for for an
> expectant mother to fly at?
>
> 2. Does this vary with the stage of pregnancy?
>
> 3. Is there a time when we should simply stop flying?
>
> 4. Are there any resources that anyone know of concernign flying with
> small children (i.e. headsets, inner-ear issues, etc.?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Cap

[Snowbird]

Chris Kennedy > wrote in message >...
> > 2. Does this vary with the stage of pregnancy?
>
> Jen flew solo until early in her fifth month, at which point she was
> cautioned to stop solo flight because some women start to have episodes
> of lightheadedness about that time (she never did). She flew dual until
> sometime in her sixth month, when she couldn't stuff her 5'2" frame into
> the airplane or get full travel on the yoke.

I dunno what your airplane is, but I fit my 5'4" frame into our
plane through 37 weeks.

What I did was push my seat back, then buy the tallest platform
shoes I could find to achieve full rudder travel. I thought I might
need a seatbelt extension, but because of the way our seatbelts
are designed, I didn't.

I did have to build a holder off to the side for my approach plates.
My stomach completely hid the bottom half.

I flew solo through 37 weeks with my OB's approval, so the
"caution" your wife experienced is neither universal nor
really backed up w/ any solid research. No harm in being
cautious though if your wife didn't mind.

Frankly I wouldn't have minded having someone else around to
push the plane back and help me tie it down :).

Cheers,
Sydney

[Snowbird]

Jake Brodsky > wrote in message >...

> We flew with my daughter here and there until she was about 13 months
> old. After that, my wife's mobility was getting limited by pregnancy
> again, and the logistics of managing a baby on an airfield by one's
> self are not nearly easy as it might first seem.

I guess I'm not sure what you mean by that?

We really didn't have any problems. I used the horizontal
stabilizer as a changing table. I can tell you how to clear
out a pilot's lounge full of sedentary older men who won't
give you a seat in a big hurry :). People were really nice
about giving us a run into town if we needed more diapers
or something. The smallest things fascinate little kids, so
entertainment is not an issue.

MUCH MUCH harder to handle a baby on a commercial flight, solo.
Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh.

Be interested to know what you found to be concerns?

> Our airplane, a Cardinal FG, isn't particularly noisy and
> the back seat is far enough away from the engine and propeller that
> noise isn't overwhelming.

I gotta say something here.

DH is EH&S among other professions so we borrowed a portable dosimeter
(noise level measure). Taxi in a small plane is about 75 dB, comparable
to a car on the highway.

Takeoff is 98 dB, more than 16x higher. Cruise about 92 in our plane,
16x higher. Objectively, this *is* a level of noise that can cause
hearing damage upon repeated exposure of sufficient duration.

I don't know what you perceive as "not particularly noisy" but
I didn't notice the Cardinal I flew in being particularly any
quieter than other planes.

Personally, our plane will not leave the ground unless our daughter
is wearing hearing protection. We want to preserve her hearing until
she's old enough to go to rock concerts or take up playing the drums
and ruin it on her own. *g*

> Let me mention this one bit of caution for later: As with a car, KIDS
> BELONG IN THE BACK SEAT. Do not put them in the co-pilot's seat until
> you can be SURE they won't do something impulsive or stupid, such as
> bring their feet up to push the flight controls.

Concur.

At age 3 1/2, our dd is only just now being allowed to sit in the
front seat for short flights as long as she is having a good day
and can "listen to our words". And, we have another adult in
back who is prepared to drag her into the back seat if she doesn't.
VMC only.

Cheers,
Sydney

[Big John]

Sydney

Good post.

Knew you would come through with good stuff that us studs couldn't put
together. Haven't been there, haven't done that. <G>

Big John


On 8 Aug 2003 08:32:46 -0700, (Snowbird)
wrote:

(Captain Wubba) wrote in message >...
>
>> My wife is pregnant with our first child. She is currently 12
>> weeks into an apparently uncomplicated pregnancy.
>
>Congratulations!
>
>What you'll find, Wubba, is that there isn't much in the
>way of definitive research on this topic. I know, 'cuz it's
>part of my job description to be able to dig up research like
>a dog going after baked liver, and when I was pregnant I
>had a personal interest.
>
>> 1. What is the maximum altitude that would be 'safe' for for an
>> expectant mother to fly at?
>
>Unclear. Rule of thumb: most commercial aircraft are pressurized
>to ~8,000 ft and pregnant women fly commercial all the time w/out
>problems. So that's probably a sensible guideline. If you're
>concerned and want to fly higher, buy oxygen and have her use it.
>
>We bought a system from Mountain High http://www.mhoxygen.com/
>with whom I have no connection except as a satisfied customer.
>Their salesman Ric used to give an "RAH scum" discount (he and
>his lovely wife are building a Berkut), you might ask if you
>go that route. We personally find it very useful above about
>5k on long legs, we are less tired and more alert.
>
>> 2. Does this vary with the stage of pregnancy?
>
>No, though in general your wife will be less comfortable and
>have trouble breathing in general after 6-7 mos or so.
>
>What will be more of a concern is the need to maintain good
>circulation, which sitting for long periods restricts. You
>might want to ask her OB about prescription compression
>therapy (aka "support hose"). The OTC kind are helpful, the
>prescription kind are great. The thigh-high model are
>cheaper and cooler than the pantyhose.
>
>Shorter flights with a chance to stretch legs and move around
>are a must (1 hr vs 3-4 hr legs) not to mention that the baby
>will be occupying (and probably kicking) the normal location
>of her bladder.
>
>> 3. Is there a time when we should simply stop flying?
>
>Well, I was up shooting ILS in 300 ft and 1 mile vis at
>37 weeks :). It depends upon how comfortable she is.
>By 9 mos, she'll probably be pretty uncomfortable. It's
>analogous to building a plane: the first 9 months last
>9 months, and the last 2-3 weeks last another 9 months :).
>
>Depending upon the design of your plane, you may need a
>seatbelt extender and she may need a small stepstool to
>get into the plane.
>
>> 4. Are there any resources that anyone know of concernign flying with
>> small children (i.e. headsets, inner-ear issues, etc.?
>
>AOPA has a packet "flying with children". Some people cut earplugs
>down. We don't like that. Two commercial muff-style hearing protectors
>will adjust down to fit an infant (Tasco Golden Eagle and Peltor
>something II). About $20-$30. Fill in the top with foam and cover
>w/ a piece of soft cloth. Nurse or give bottle/paci on climbout/
>descent. Learn to descend at 200 fpm, ask ATC for "slow descent"
>due to "baby on board" they will usually accomodate. Use a full-size
>crib protector cut in half as a baby containment device during
>diaper change.
>
>When baby is toddler, Ear-planes are helpful and a regular headset
>(with foam at the top) can be used to allow them to listen to music.
>
>Entertaining a baby or child shut up in a small plane for a 9 hr
>flying day is an art form, but it can be done :)
>
>HTH,
>Sydney

[Snowbird]

Chris Kennedy > wrote in message >...

> > I flew solo through 37 weeks with my OB's approval, so the
> > "caution" your wife experienced is neither universal nor
> > really backed up w/ any solid research. No harm in being
> > cautious though if your wife didn't mind.

> I was, I believe, fairly clear that I was recounting our personal
> experience and made no attempt to quantify it as either universal nor
> even particularly applicable to anyone else.

Actually, Chris, that wasn't clear. The way you worded it was
"she was cautioned...because some women...." which kind of made
it sound like a generic caution applying to all pg women because
a number of pg women experience a such problem, rather than a
specific caution relating to your wife's personal medical history.

My point is that AFAIK it is not a general caution applying to
all pg women.

> The caution didn't come from her OB (who we'd fired by that time) but
> from her AME who brandished 61.53(a)(1) and her history of
> low-blood-sugar induced migraines at her.

Sounds reasonable.

Cheers,
Sydney

[Bud]

After consultation with a professional birth doula (I asked my wife a few
minutes ago) she offered this advice:

> My wife is pregnant with our first child.

Congratulations!!

> She is currently 12 weeks into an apparently uncomplicated pregnancy.
She's in good
> health, and has no specific problems that we know of. I have heard
> conflicting advice about flying in small, unpressurized planes while
> pregnant. She's very
> comfortable flying, and we like to travel, and would like to travel
> via general aviation both before and (after a suitable age) after
> delivery. The aircraft we fly in is not pressurized (It's either a 206
> or a Beech Musketeer). I had a few questions:

Birth is not an illness. The reason she says this is because of your
statement that your wife "has no specific problems that we know of." Many
people in our culture treat pregnant women as if they had some kind of
illness and require constant medical attention. If mom is OK with flying,
then chances are the baby will be OK, too. She (my wife) said she doesn't
like flying but sees no reason why a pregnany woman shouldn't be able to.
(My wife was an air traffic controller for six years so she knows just
enough to be afraid of GA aircraft - but that's a different thread.) Baby
is pretty well protected and as long as she isn't ingesting something
harmful she should be fine.



> 1. What is the maximum altitude that would be 'safe' for for an
> expectant mother to fly at?

As far as I know there hasn't been any research on safe altitudes for
pregnant women to fly at. But then again, there's no research that says
ultrasounds are safe. Years ago they used to give women routine x-rays
("It's only light, it's not going to hurt you or your baby.")

> 2. Does this vary with the stage of pregnancy?

Again, nothing to say it's not safe at any stage of pregnancy. Of course
women go through physiological changes during pregnancy that may require
some logistical changes in routine (bathroom breaks, bigger seat belts, etc
....)

> 3. Is there a time when we should simply stop flying?

When your wife doesn't want to fly anymore? :-)

> 4. Are there any resources that anyone know of concernign flying with
> small children (i.e. headsets, inner-ear issues, etc.?

This has prompted some research on our part since my wife is a birth doula
and she's married to an air traffic controller. Obviously, hearing
protection is a must.

Congratulations again!


--
73,
Bud
--------------------------------------------------------------
Heather's Doula Page
www.navydoula.com

And God Said, "Let there be electromagnetic radiation with a
wavelength range of 400nm to 700nm that travels with a speed
of about 186,281 miles per second in a vacuum."